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Alt. hip-hop

 
  

Page: 12(3)

 
 
Jack The Bodiless
13:22 / 06.08.04
OK, fair enough. See, that's the kind of explanation I would have preferred to see (he said, coming over all headmaster-pompous).

Regarding your question - see, as far as I'm concerned, that can be considered reclaiming the word 'bitch' (subject to whether it's being used in a context that might enforce the currently dominant patriarchal-misogynist useage, in which case I'd argue not). But I don't consider that that reclamation is something that men can buy into, just as I don't consider that white folk can buy into the reclamation of the word 'nigger' (cf Tarantino in Pulp Fiction, for example) without enforcing a racist discourse where that word is concerned.

What do you think, dude?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:36 / 06.08.04
I think I'd say that there are certain circumstances in which having reclaimed/detourned a word, a group of people then offer it back to be used again to people outside that group. This rarely happens with the 'n' word, but there are instances (when the sense of common ground that is required for permission to be granted is wider than colour of skin - mainly when class, culture and urban location are the deciding factors).

It's a lot easier to do personally ('amongst friends') than on something like a record, and I'd be foolish or disingenuous to claim that this was happening all the time. However - something is going on when female artists use the word and also collaborate or associate with male artists who use the word. And too often the assumption is made (especially by white, male listeners) that what's going on is just false consciousness - that the female artists are being exploited or degrading themselves, because they're not smart enough to do otherwise. (To be fair, annoyingly patronising underground rappers make this assumption too - see Jeru's 'Ya Playin' Y'Self'.) The truth has to be a little more complicated than that.

Then, of course, there's the fact that there are other means of being misogynistic than language - exclusion of women being one, and one of which the underground has usually been more guilty than the mainstream.
 
 
Char Aina
13:38 / 06.08.04
toksik, you've pretty much just proved my point about the whole "not recognising that attitude as misogynistic" thing. Thanks!

glad i could help.
perhaps you could return the favour by explaining how i am wrong and how you are totally right.




The biggest problem with his post is actually that he doesn't seem to have noticed that there are two people in Outkast and that they're not always saying the same thing, despite the fact that he's replying to a post of mine that actually says with the exception of Big Boi's verse, it's misogynistic in a peculiarly indie rock way.


oh, of course.
andre's song=andre's idea was how i figured it. it is his album, and i guess i attribute the shit to him. he woulda vetoed anything he hated, surely?
(i did look at the liner notes to check the lyrics a couple of times, and it actually tells you who sings what. so, no, not through ignorance.)

we should move off ths, thats true.

and i would have, including all the shit i just posted. if you hadnt said These are the same people who would castigate other more 'mainstream' rappers for doing the same


show me.
show me me castigating a rapper for that, and i will say "flyboy, not only are you correct in accusing me of not having rigorously applied standards of appreciation, but you are better at choosing good music that is good for the world and me."
but you cant.
unless you can?

i suspect you are doing what i'm sure everyone has online at some point, and assuming that because i have disagreement with you in common with others i must also be in agreement with them.

this is not the case.

i have no probelm with the ass shaking side of hip hop, nor with the mainstream as a whole. there are artists i like, some i dislike(hey, like your friend fiddy. i just dont get fiddy. but no, its not because he's black.) and there are some i only dislike for their stance on certain issues. kinda like people, huh?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:04 / 06.08.04
Fair enough, I didn't explicitly say you were one of those people, just that you shared their opinion of 'Roses', but I had fallen into that assumption so I take it back.

Now, moving on, can anyone tell me about the new Ghostface project, Theodore Unit.
 
 
Char Aina
15:05 / 06.08.04
is he taking the piss out of G-unit, or is it just a similarity, d'you reckon? i dont get the joke if he is, but it does seem funny that he has a generic posse of dudes behind him. made me think of fiddy again.

havent even heard about this til now, to be honest.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
15:14 / 06.08.04
It's Ghosties crew, and by all accounts it's a pretty tight album (718) It's in the shops, but hasn't been reviewed much. Some of them guested on the PT album (Trife mainly I believe) I nearly bought it yesterday, but a fat gas bill prevented it. Oh yeah, and there's a white guy called Shawn Wigs in the crew who's supposedly pretty good. I don't know much more than that I'm afraid.
 
 
Char Aina
15:49 / 06.08.04
despite having learned very little about the album, i am tempted.



when i get paid when i get paid when i get paid...
 
 
TeN
18:01 / 06.08.04
If you would kindly continue the mysoginist discussion here, and leave this thread for it's intended purpose: the recomendation of good music.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
19:49 / 06.08.04
Which, in case you hadn't noticed, is what's happening. Did you yourself not add fuel to the fire a few posts back?
 
 
phrankphutta
23:17 / 06.08.04
...this is me mentioning Vancouver's own Sweatshop Union.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
04:33 / 08.08.04
couple of things...

someone was asking about Kid Acne? I've got one album, and it's ok. The first 2 or 3 songs are great, but his...style starts to grate after awhile. However, the Req production is always aces, so that's great.

thank god that someone is recommending Gravediggaz: 6 feet deep. my vote for best hip hop album ever. love it to death.

i maintain that the DM+Jemini and Non-Prophets album on Lex from last year are 2 of the hip hop releases in a long while.

just got an import of the new DJ Krush album, which only has 2 vocal tracks (Aesop and Lif), but the production is as tight as ever. simply gorgeous.

Anyone been checking Diplo? The guy is a genius...he does this some great instro stuff (album coming on Big Dada). totally this crunk/instro hip hop/soundtrack/electro hybrid....plus he's a top notch DJ. he does this blend of Dead Prez "Hell Yeah" over UNKLE's "Celestial Annihilation" that ends up segueing to great effect into TV on the Radio's "Starting at the Sun." Great shit.

The new Prince Po album, "The Slickness," on Lex appears to be quite promising.

(Oh yeah, thanks whoever mentioned Bubba Sparxx on the first page...I'd forgotten I mean to pick that up...jeez, what an amazing album)

Other stuff:
DJ Signify - Sleep No more - dark concept album

Crude Conception - First label comp from new label Refinery Records. check it out http://www.refineryrecords.com

Lunch Money Singles comp on Bully. Excellent instro hip hop

Sixtoo album on Ninja Tune - Excellent instro album...live instruments, MPCs, and even Damo Suzuki!

Blockhead - Music by Cavelight (Ninja Tune) - Aesop's producer strikes out on his own. Great and fun album.

Shadow Huntaz - Corrupt Data (Skam) - Funckarma produces this American trio of MCs. Total future hip-hop. amazing.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
11:33 / 08.08.04
Yeah - copped theShadowhuntaz. Quite nice - a progression from the APC sound. I'm a HUGE Sage Francis fan, and if you like Non Prophets check out his 'Sick of...' series of albums. They're collections of singles, outtakes and freestyles, radio jams etc.. that IMHO are better than his releases proper. He's one hell of a live performer - check his Johhny Cash tribute verse.
 
 
Seth
16:34 / 08.08.04
Theodore Unit are marvellous. 718 is really raw, uncut and hungry sounding.

Ghostface for President in 2004!
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
07:22 / 09.08.04
I agree with many of the recommendations on this thread, and I've discovered some new names I'll have to check out, but I don't understand why at least three luminaries have been left off:

DEL THA FUNKEE HOMOSAPIEN (also his group, Hieroglyphics)

PRINCE PAUL (and his group, Handsome Boy Modeling School)

and

PRINCESS SUPERSTAR (she ain't got a group, but she should!)

Del I've heard described as "the whitest black guy in rap," which makes no sense whatsoever to me. He's got some of the illest flow I've ever heard, and almost universally works in themes and ideas that make you think. The "Deltron 3030" album he did with Dan the Automator is, in my opinion, one of the most perfect hiphop albums imaginable. One track that I often cite to people goes:

I wanna create a virus
To bring dire straits to your environment
Crush the corporations with a mild touch
Crash your whole computer system and revert you to papyrus
I wanna create a super virus
Much worse than that old Y2K business
Cuz they don't want to unite us
So fuck it, total anarchy and can't nobody stop us


That's just SWEET.

Prince Paul, admittedly, I know less about, but he's well-revered as a producer, for one, and talks extensively in his lyrics about the politics of the hiphop industry and its effects on the culture it caters to. On his appropriately titled "The Politics of the Business" album, he takes the stale old skit track and turns it into a rap itself, including one that's a hokey radio ad for "double U double U double U Prince Paul dot com" in crescendoing falsettos and some disillusioned burnout cornering him on the street, admitting to buying into all the fads and wondering when it'll all pay off for him: "What do I gotta do to get in the GAME?!?"

Princess Superstar is definitely a pioneer in the genre, being a white female rapper who actually knows what she's doing rather than just reciting poetry over beats. Yet despite her talent, it doesn't seem anyone in the scene has deigned her worthy of being paid attention to: at this point, the rap community seems to have accepted a handful of white rappers, and to have accepted a handful of female rappers, but as yet they don't grant any cred to white female rappers. Which, if you actually listen to PS, has got to be one of the worst miscalculations they could do. Somehow, despite being a protoge of Kool Keith, she doesn't rate. I saw her open for N*E*R*D two years ago in Central Park, and she was actually BOOED throughout her set. And this was at a free show! Granted, the event wasn't well suited to her, but fuck, that takes some stones to heckle a show you didn't need to pay dick to see.

Sometime when I'm feeling more industrious I'll go into some more detail about the nerdcore rappers, but I think I gotta crash now.

/+,
 
 
Harhoo
09:46 / 11.08.04
Hullo.

My current aces hip hop track is "Scent Of A Robot" by Pete Miser, on the most recent House Of Heavy compilation. What with summer etc etc and me wanting some jazzy hip hop with neato rhyming etc etc, can anybody tell me whether either of his solo albums is any good?

[Or, alternatively, have any rilly good summer hip hop along a similar vein]
 
 
Haus of Mystery
13:01 / 11.08.04
I found the continuous presence of Del to be a bit of a drag on the Deltron 3030 album. I like his flow, but it's all at the same tempo, and after a while it begins to bog down the undeniably ace production. That and the always irritating presence of Damon fucking Albarn and other cocaine-buddies make it IMHO much less than a perfect album.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
13:05 / 11.08.04
Oh yeah - I wanted to namecheck Galapagos4 as a really good indie-hop label. Been listening to Qwel's first album all morning. Nice dusty, innovative beats tempered with thoughtful lyrics. Less arrythmic and grating than Sole et al, but sharing a similar aural space. Good stuff - not really party-music...maybe more barbequeue and beers music.
 
 
Spaniel
21:49 / 11.08.04
Tis summer time, afterall.

Ye olde rap.
 
 
The Falcon
01:12 / 12.08.04
Prince Paul also produces the vast majority (if not all?) of '6 Feet Deep', actually.
 
 
_Boboss
10:07 / 12.08.04
how high's the water now pop?

3 feet high and rising.

all of. pp also produced the first single i ever bought: mama gave birth to the soul children by queen latifah and dls
 
 
Haus of Mystery
11:28 / 12.08.04
Tink the RZA does produce a couple of tracks on '6 feet Deep' - possibly his first forays into production as I think it predates 'Enter the Wu-Tang' just about.

Pop Trivia: Album was originally called 'Niggamortis'
 
 
Seth
10:11 / 14.08.04
Wasn't Niggamortis '94, while Enter the Wu was '93?
 
 
Seth
16:19 / 16.08.04
Just picked up the new Mike Ladd album today, and first impressions are pretty good. It's got some lovely dirty funk on there.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
14:34 / 17.08.04
Yeah, Mike Ladd's cool. Erratic but cool. I've got a couple of his solo joints (Vernacular Homicidce & Welcome to the Afterfuture) and their sporadically brilliant. He's one of the few artists who can successfully fuse...ugh...rock and rap, alongside any number of musical genres (check: opera singing on The Infesticons). How does Nostalgialator compare to his previous?

Also picked up (very late) Mr Lif's 'I Phantom' cheap'tother day, and it's superb - easily the best Def Jux release aside from 'The Cold vein' - 'live from the Plantation' (produced by Edan) is a classic. Buy the fucker if you haven't already.
 
 
The Falcon
01:41 / 19.08.04
I think you're forgetting about a little act called N*E*R*D*, MacGyver.

I saw them at Murrayfield (free tix, supporting 'The Chillies', don't ask. Ash were stonily average as ever) and they were the boss of rock/rap fusion. Also they did 'Pass the Courvoisier'. And one other rap tune, can't remember.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:27 / 19.08.04
But the second N.E.R.D. album is so bad that the Neptunes appear to have gone into the hiding as a result! The first one is kinda essential though, it's true.
 
 
Jackie Susann
07:45 / 19.08.04
Also, Ramm-El-Zee - who basically invented weirdo rap - has an album out, which would probably have been the greatest thing ever if he'd released it in like 1982 but as it is is just too untimely, maybe.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:24 / 19.08.04
Mmmm, but kick makes it sound pretty tasty. I keep forgetting it's out - will have to add it to The List... It'll go below the 718 album and the new Dizzee Rascal in terms of priority though.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
12:03 / 19.08.04
I didn't forget N.E.R.D. Hence use of the word 'few' denoting 'not many but some.' I also think someone like Mike Ladd is fairly underexposed, whereas Pharrell's boys were pretty ubiquitous for a good chunk of this year, so I don't really want to talk them up.
 
 
illmatic
13:27 / 19.08.04
Has anyone heard the Rammellzee album? I've wavered over it a few times.... I get the impression it's something I'd play one, go "wow! S'great!" and actually never listen to again.
 
 
The Falcon
01:56 / 26.08.04
Nah, I was being daft.

Still, 'Fly or Die' after the 7th or 8th listen is like - 'oh, yeah.' It's light but quite good.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
12:34 / 26.08.04
Hey mysicwreck - have you checked out anything that anyone suggested? Just curious as to how you found it, if so.
 
  

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