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Underground > Comic Books >

MAX Punisher

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11:30 / 07.11.07

Be strong, Parsons. Be strong

14:55 / 07.11.07

that was basically my reaction after i'd caned the first few big chunks of this. i reckon it sustains the high level of toughness and tension very well - after slavers, things do get a bit more easy with barracuda (mileage varies for some here obvs, but the fight with him, where frank knows he's off his game because he reckons he's got brain damage from the car crash he was just in, is incredible. fantastic, effortless flowing art from parlov too in that arc- ennis has had some really great collaborators, it's not all been a one-man show).

man of stone goes for quite a traditional war movie setting, with typically trenchant contemporary asides, and widowmaker, to me at least, goes for the same piss-on-your-heart dirge that slavers does, and pisses even harder.

04:37 / 08.11.07

I will be strong. I will be steeled. And I will gird my loins once the swelling goes down...

07:15 / 08.11.07

There's stuff like... Yorkie is in Ennis' mainstay 'troubles' issues of the Knights run and the social worker whose name I never recall (Jenny?) is in the horrible underground cannibal man arc, which features Garth's regularly recurring 'suffocating under fatness' motif.

Not sure that's so much a connection as just Ennis re-using characters he likes, a habit he carries over from his pre-Preacher days. I recall he was asked at least a couple of times in the Preacher lettercol whether the Genesis that possessed Jesse Custer was the same as the Genesis he had used in an earlier series; if I remember right, he said something about No, he just liked the idea of a baby-faced god-thing. (and yes, I liked Preacher. I know this loses me Taste points around here, heh)

The impression I get is that there's a tenuous connection because Marvel wanted one (why, I'm not sure), but Ennis has seemed to be doing his damndest to split with the MK stuff from issue one.

23:16 / 08.11.07

I like the separation. MAX Fury was amazing in MOTHER RUSSIA. Made me want to pick up Ennis' FURY series. Are the two MAX Nicks congruent?

07:43 / 09.11.07

I believe they are, or at least Ennis intends them to be so, even if Marvel haven't given him their official approval.

15:09 / 10.11.07

I gotta give credit to artist Goran Parlov (or however exactly his name is spelled). He's pretty terrific, and has done a slam-bang job on the Punisher arcs he's worked on. I'm really enjoying his stuff on this current arc about the Barracuda & Frank's (new) kid.

17:39 / 10.11.07

when the quitting date is confirmed, i'll be turning the house upside down to find the trades and embarking on a good old-fashioned barbelith re-read of the entire series, including born and the one-offs and maybe even the fury series, with commentary in this here thread book-by-book. i hope some of youse will join me.

Hell yeah!

04:09 / 12.11.07

Almost forgot about that... Thor, do you have an interview or something where Ennis says he's leaving the title (I couldn't find anything on Google), or is this just a guess?

08:18 / 12.11.07

I think it's just a gut feeling that's been reinforced by LITG.

19:35 / 12.11.07

that's correct, just a hunch and an internet rumour. i think the falc is right about another arc about this one, just to provide a coda of sorts i'd have thought. generally, the tempo of the series just feels like it's due to wrap soon. however, since the misfiring .22 of the recent annual, which, one supposes, was intended as a dry run for his replacement (mister name escapes me, does tv or something), i hope marvel don't tempt him to stay past the point where he really ought to be there. if the punisher meets his mum in a samll town somewhere, or if there is a single solitary reference to john wayne, i am gone.

00:17 / 13.11.07

Not sure where I read this, but isn't the idea that once Garth Ennis finishes up (at the end of the next arc, or it would've been announced by now, presumably) Frank will return to the Marvel universe on a full-time basis? Hence the writing in 'War Journal' being marginally less ridiculous of late. I mean as if Frank would have even attempted to take over as Captain America; that's more the sort of thing Roy Castle might have tried. While he was on the phone, again, to the Guinness Book of Records, I suppose.

If that is the plan anyway, it seems about right. While there are people around who could keep going with the MAX Punisher franchise in principle (Brian Azzarello and Jason Aaron spring to mind; on the other hand, Daniel Way and whoever it was who wrote the recent annual don't) I'm not sure if they'd have quite the same amount of empathy with Frank. Arguably, the absence of trademark knob gags in Ennis' treatment here is down to his almost total identification with the character, so all in all, it might be best if this iteration of the Punisher was laid to rest, at least for a while.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:14 / 13.11.07

there is one thread left hanging which doesn't seem likely to be wrapped up in the current story: who fed barracuda the intel.?

This is surely going to be the US generals/military guys from 'Mother Russia'/'Up is Down and Black is White', right?

Anyway, generally concur with all the praise that's been heaped on this series, which I've been catching up on in trades. I have a lot of reservations about Ennis - when he's lazy, he churns out some of the most irritating comics around - but this is solid gold stuff. I've even come round to Barracuda (although I still think Yorkie's final "fuck you" to him is troublingly meant-to-be-identified-with, but then I guess so is Yorkie as a whole).

One of the things that's been said often in this thread is how well Ennis uses formula in this title. A specific element of that I love is the way Frank's monologue is how, whenever someone gets the drop on him (and they always have to, otherwise there'd be no drama), Frank always tells himself off for being sloppy, and tells us how really he deserved that one, and then also commentates on how he only got through this one by the skin of his teeth. All the while keeping a frankly implausible running tally of his terrible, terrible injuries (it's a wonder he has any ribs left).

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:33 / 13.11.07

Going back a bit in this thread:

I recently bought and read the Baracuda-paperback, and am a bit confused. At the end there, Punisher sinks a boat full of rich people attached to the evil corporation. Now, I'm sure most rich people are inherently evil and everything, but I thought a central part of The Punishers weird ethics is that he only kills those who are guilty of some sort of crime. The only crime I see attributed to most of the people on the boat (and their spouses) is a hypothetical willingness to accept a blackout of parts of Florida in order to maximize the company's profits.

To me, this scene is absolutely crucial to Ennis' understanding of the character. While he often focuses on real monsters, Frank doesn't in general worry about whether the punishment fits the crime. He's perfectly happy to waste junior gang members at the drop of a hat, he stabs bouncers because they work for a club owned or even frequented by criminals, he kills Russian soldiers because they work at a missile silo where a six-year old girl is being held... Did they know? Maybe not... "but if you don't like the job, don't take the pay", he says grimly. Wrong place, wrong time.

And all this, all this shooting teenagers because they sell drugs or are in gangs, would make Frank not just a monster but a particular kind of right-wing monster, if you didn't also have him blow up an entire yacht full of pampered corporate scum. Who cares about due process, evidence, legality? - who cares if the crime has technically actually been committed? - he's the Punisher), he wastes them, because they are scum. Because they did something that they knew was wrong, they just went ahead and did it anyway to get what they wanted, and they need to be punished, like the next door neighbour he threw through a window for having an affair.

Micro says he doesn't think Frank's crazy because Frank hasn't walked into a McDonalds, guns ablaze, yet. But Micro doesn't understand Frank as well as he thinks. Micro probably doesn't know about the dream Frank has sometimes, in which he doesn't stop once he's killed every last criminal. In which he turns the guns on teh sheeple.

It's just a dream, I tell myself.

It's just a dream.

20:01 / 13.11.07

This is surely going to be the US generals/military guys from 'Mother Russia'/'Up is Down and Black is White', right?

oh yes, of course. can't believe i never thought of that - carried away on a flight of fancy. guess the last arc will be a bit heavy on the politics then.

17:11 / 15.11.07

The new issue of this is deeply beautiful.

I swear that back there for a second, I choked back a tear.

03:06 / 16.11.07

yeah, it's pretty great. The bit in the beginning about 'the terror of being a parent' (even those who don't have their kids slaughtered in front of them are constantly worrying for their kids safety - something that was a very cool way of making the Punisher relevant to the average person) was fantastic.

SPOIL-TASTIC CONCEPT FOLLOWS!!:

REALLY IT DOES::

))) *****

****

I think the 'baby' at the end might have been a decoy to enrage Frank and make him sloppy. Note how we don't see its face. Maybe The Barracuda has SOME compassion/a heart in there somewhere after all.

12:38 / 16.11.07

I like your thinking, especially if this isn't Garth's last story arc; otherwise, there's not much left for Frank to do except kill Barracuda then go after the generals, all the other major characters having expired. And sixty issues, ten trades, seem a nice round number to go out on.

14:36 / 16.11.07

Fucking gold. I can barely remember the last time a comic made me so tense.

Of course, part of that is to do with the weird, parent head that can barely deal with anything in which the shrilldren are threatened.

Uatu.is.watching

16:00 / 16.11.07

I think you might be on the right track FW, but I doubt that it's due to Barracuda's compassion.

16:28 / 21.11.07

I think the 'baby' at the end might have been a decoy to enrage Frank and make him sloppy. Note how we don't see its face.

I think this is on the right track.

I've managed to pick up this arc in singles, and I think the main issue I have is that I read the Barracuda trade. I almost wish I hadn't, now. It's like an exaggeration of everything that makes him memorable without the presence of any of the qualities that make him so threatening, i.e. his devotion to a basic idea of 'I'll do whatever as long as I come out ahead'.

If I speculated - and I'm aware speculation isn't worth anything, but - I'd say that Frank would already have the thought in his head that the baby's not been shot, just as he was trying to plant the seed of doubt as to who Barracuda's information suppliers were. The last time The Punisher started doing anything more imaginative and inventive than just shooting The Bad Guys, it was over an organised slaving ring, and then he went through how easy it would be to keep doing the same sorts of more-horrific stuff.

Even when his family were exhumed and defiled, his fury was cold instead of hot rage. So what's a killer ending could be a throwaway at the beginning of the next chapter; or, alternatively, it could be something much worse, in that what you see might really be what you get, and that Barracuda really is as cold as to take the shot and as calculating as to believe in the advantage it would give him, which would only exist if the action were real...

10:53 / 25.11.07

i hope you're right and that last page does turn out to be a fake-out. it might not be though. this series has been notably light on switcheroos and other narrative tricks. what it has made quite some hay out of though, is being really really fucking grim, so i am a bit afeared that last page was all real.

Janean Patience

17:24 / 26.11.07

I'm behind on this series because I'm reading the hardbacks, so I've only scanned the last page of the thread to avoid spoilers. I get the impression that the Barracuda solo series should be avoided completely, and I'd be grateful if that could be confirmed because I'm sort of tempted.

17:32 / 26.11.07

Don't bother. Really.

It's the other Ennis. The shit one.

17:36 / 26.11.07

Agreed. The BARRACUDA mini is a big, fat bummer.

Janean Patience

16:50 / 27.11.07

Thanks muchly. The next hardback's out in February, anyway, so not too long to wait. Though it does feel weird, full circle kinda, going back to being a comics reader who's excited about the Punisher.

18:55 / 27.11.07

It's interesting but has anyone looked at the numbers to see how THE PUNISHER is doing? It seems to be the test case for how the Big 2 can branch out into non-superhero comic books and not fall flat on their faces. Of course, RAWHIDE KID didn't do too well, so maybe I'm wrong.

19:02 / 27.11.07

I'd think yr Scalped or Criminal were better examples, not featuring superhero trademarks, any established TMs actually, and ancillary superhero titles. But Punisher sells around a steady 33k monthly, well above the watermark for cancellation, and likely - given subject matter, author - is one of the bigger winners for Marvel in trades. Trade figures are practically impossible to get any steady read on, howevs.

Essential Dazzler

20:36 / 18.12.07

PUNISHER #55
Written by GARTH ENNIS
Penciled by GORAN PARLOV
Cover by TIM BRADSTREET
“VALLEY FORGE, VALLEY FORGE: THE SLAUGHTER OF A U.S. MARINE GARRISON AND THE BIRTH OF THE PUNISHER,” PART 1
Garth Ennis concludes his seminal run on PUNISHER -- in style. Thirty-five years ago, the Fifth Cavalry disgorged their troops on an isolated Vietnamese hilltop and was met by a scene of utter devastation. The final body count ran to well over seven-hundred -- almost 200 hundred of them American soldiers. Standing alone amidst the carnage, a sole survivor: Captain Frank Castle, who years later would be known as the most fearsome vigilante to walk the Earth: The Punisher. Now the Punisher is about to face his stiffest test: He’s hunted big game in his day, but none as big as this. Five men with unlimited resources. Men who’d put anything between themselves and the Punisher’s bullet. Men who know exactly who he is…and how to fight him.

So, looks like whoever guessed the Generals from Mother Russia to be the final Big Bad was on the money, which pleases me greatly. I'm also chuffed about the expanded origin stuff, that's always a nice way to bookend a run. I'm not that keen on Parlov, well, I am pretty keen on Parlov, but I'd much rather Medina or Fernandez return for this swansong. No arc-length either but I'm going to assume it's the standard 6.

(Really hope all that HTML works.)

18:53 / 31.12.07

New issue out!

Love how the cover is just "FRONT TOWARDS ENEMY." Honestly, I had never known that explosives in the military actually had this written on them until I started reading Garth Ennis-written comics. Quite creepy in and of itself.

"You have to be fucking kidding me.

Was the thought that came to mind."

Another great issue. Ennis continues to deliver the goods. It'll be sad to see him go, but he's more than earned the right to stop now, after so many years, and it's always smartest to go out on a high note.

13:58 / 02.01.08

SPOILERS AHOY!!!

I enjoyed the issue, the Punisher's voice was spot-on as always, and the plotting just clicked away like a finely tuned machine, but I've got doubts about where this is going. Shooting the kid in the head was a real monkeywrench thrown into the plot and revealing it to be a dummy felt a little "One More Day"-ish. Ennis has more than earned my patience and I want to see where he's going before I start criticizing, but the Punisher/Baracuda clash is in danger of turning into a bit of Tom and Jerry slapstick. Maybe it's the fact that the book has to come out monthly that's giving it this repetitive whack-a-mole feeling and it'll read better in trades.

16:13 / 07.01.08

almost a perfectly structured fightbook, twenty two pages of being electrocuted on the balls til you shit yourself, then electrocuted a bit more. barracuda's secret origin was, well a bit cheesy really, but also effective in the context of the moment. a brilliantly staged shooting and punching issue though, best in the biz at that, clearly, by miles.

18:14 / 07.01.08

You know, I'm really glad to have an Ennis book to heap praise upon. For a while there it looked like he'd never live up to his own potential.

02:44 / 25.01.08

damn fine ending, I thought. 2 more issues in Ennis' run, right? something like that.

11:02 / 25.01.08

It was great, wasn't it?

Lines like;

'I thought about what I'd look like, through her eyes.

'An animal.

'A monster, standing in another's gore.'

shouldn't work, but in context, really do. Because they are what Frank would think.

Another six, or possibly seven to go, anyway, of what's far and away the best thing Garth Ennis has ever put his name to. His decision to take Frank more seriously, and stop clowning about, was the right one, really. Even those who usually object to everything he stands for (Garth Ennis that is, not Castle) might enjoy the trades. Which are highly recommended, more than the monthlies, when the overall, tragic structure of the series can sometimes get lost, like Frank can, in all the mayhem.

Best comparison, oddly (seeing as that's pro-life, and this take on The Punisher really isn't) might be James Robinson's 'Starman.' In both cases, the writer's taken the trouble to put a fairly mainstream, non-creator owned character through a proper narrative arc, with a beginning, a middle, and, as far as Frank's concerned anyway, no doubt terrible end.

It all came down to the baby, finally, in 'Starman'. And I'm guessing the same will be true, albeit in a different way, of 'The Punisher'.

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