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MAX Punisher

 
  

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wicker woman
05:38 / 27.05.04
After reading issue #6 today, I was almost prepared to revive the 'most shocking moments in comics' thread. I honestly came away from the first reading with "That was really good. I'm not sure I want to read that again anytime soon."

This is not, by any stretch of the imagination, anything like Ennis' run on Punisher before the title moved to the MAX line. Before it started, I was expecting what had come before , but with blood & swearing. With these first 6 issues, Garth has turned it into so much more.
Ennis has turned the Punisher for the first time ever, I think, into a truly remorseless killing machine. Not a cute, get-behind-the-bad-guy kind of thing, but something I really don't want to cheer for, and almost find myself hoping one of the 'bad guys' gets lucky... and I love it.

No one has ever written this character better. The fight with Pittsy in #6 was extremely intense (if just a tad unbelievable), and the ending. God. Despite the potential setup for it early on, I really never expected him to shoot Micro. That one scene was almost solely responsible for me saying "Yep, well, going to leave this one alone for a bit."
 
 
Opps!!
17:54 / 27.05.04
Might i say that i think the MAX issues have saved this book and brought back the Ennis we know and love. Not sure about the art though
 
 
FinderWolf
18:27 / 27.05.04
I love this story arc and have since issue 1. Great ideas, tautly written, excellent dialogue, and very strong, moody art. I didn't post anything about it here cause I thought it might be too 'low-brow' for those here - glad to see I'm wrong!
 
 
Axolotl
19:23 / 27.05.04
I don't like the art, there's just something about it that grates on me. That said I did like Larosa's version of the punisher; big and grizzled, like he would be. The writing is definitely areturn to form for Ennis. Back to when he consistently served up writing that had a visceral power with a real edge, instead of a series of dick and fart gags (not that there is anything wrong with that in moderation, but Adventures of the Rifle Brigade?). Good to see the Max line used for real adult stories, instead of lots of nudies and swearing.
 
 
Krug
01:40 / 29.05.04
This is really brutal and gruesome stuff.

"The End" was probably the best thing Garth wrote in a long time but he continues to shine with this arc. I can't believe this is the same man writing the book. The previous series had way too many stinkers ("Confederacy of Dunces", the "kid who ate his mum and became a sewer monster story").

I haven't seen Larosa's art before but I like what I see. The colourist got the drained pornolike violence (in #6) look which made the story a lot more disturbing.

Even though we knew Micro was going to get shot in the head, it was no less shocking.

I don't care much for some of the subplots in this arc but I'm just too pleased with the ending and I really liked how he handled Micro.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:09 / 08.11.04
After a lackluster IRA story, Ennis is back in top form with his "Nick Fury recruits Frank for a suicide mission in Russia" story. Check it out!
 
 
Krug
08:20 / 09.11.04
Yeah Kitchen Irish sort of fizzled but "Mother Russia" seems to have started nicely.

The scene with the mum is the best scene in any comic this month.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:45 / 10.11.04
I love Fury's line "Never enough, is it?" said to Frank, after Frank's just killed about 10 people and blown up a house. I never thought someone could get 3+ years' worth of good Punisher stories, but Ennis has pretty much done that... (even though some of Ennis' stories go in and out in terms of quality, I maintain that since the 1999/2000 revival, Ennis' stories have been around 70% solid, well-told, interesting Punisher stories, no mean feat since the Punisher is kind of a one-note character)
 
 
FinderWolf
17:10 / 10.05.05
The new story seems cool, possibly derived from the JLA story where Ra's al Ghul digs up the bodies of Batman's parents and holds them 'hostage'...in the new regular book storyline, a crazed gangster with a grudge against the Punisher digs up the bones of Frank's family and pees on them, recording it on videotape for the news with a challenge to Frank.

Also, Ennis does a one-shot special this week called Punisher: The Cell about Frank in a prison. Should be grisly fun.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:11 / 13.06.06
Punisher: The Tyger is out; with an enjoyable story by Ennis...not quite as good as The Cell and definitely not as good as Ennis & Corben's THE END, but worth checking out. The Tyger has lovely art by classic comics artist John Severin, formerly of Marvel's cowboy line. It's good to see Marvel continuing to use Severin.
 
 
_Boboss
09:48 / 14.06.06
this had been my best comic obsession this year - such huge and nasty (guilty) fun. the trades are arriving through the door every week or so and they're very warmly received. it's pretty ennis, but his writing has made huge leaps since preacher (i think his war stories, initially dismissed as a nostalgic tour through his dc thomson comic library memories, were actually some of his best work, with quiet and flawed characters that just didn't go off on a rant about people with facial piercings all the time. slike the fact he was writing about people whose circumstances were real and actually life-and-death caused him to dredge up more, erm 'respect' for his characters and their potential readers than before. definitely a turning point for his style.)

what's ace about this punisher run, apart from the fact of a man in his late late fifties running around killing baddies by the dozen, whilst getting knocked about quite frequently and mentioning the inevitability of brain damage, is that in each arc there's just this barely-human monster who is, like frank, almost supernaturally hard - pittsy in the first arc (best fight in a comic in years, really: 'punk's been eating his spinach'); pittsy's sister later on ('give her the whole clip'); the mongolian in the mother russia arc ('i'm twisting his leg off like a drumstick when I realise i'm probably freaking out the kid'); no-one in kitchen irish (dampest arc yet - still, a mature, decent analysis of 'Di Trobbles' comes out of it); and most recently barracuda ('gimme some of that jambalaya'). it's the most readable and damn grim book on the shelves, certainly by the big two, and long may it continue at this level.
 
 
Kirk Ultra
17:01 / 14.06.06
Ennis's MAX Punisher series also has a lot more to say than most comics coming out today, especially about war. "I'm not going to start a war in Afghanistan just so Colt can sell a few thousand more M-16s," says Frank to Micro, who he later kills for being involved with the heroin trafficking to support that war.

Its pretty impressive that Ennis can so consistently work in so much anti-war discussion in a comic about a guy who goes around killing huge amounts of people with a machine gun. Even more impressive considering the rest of the Marvel universe has been a big fascist "we love Big Brother" festival ever since they got rid of Morrison. Captain America going to Guantanamo Bay and saying "Yeah its tough there, but they all deserve it because they're all terrorists;" Tony Stark being turned into Donald Rumsfield; the death of Xavier's Dream. Not to mention to whole "civil war" bullshit storyline they have going on now. In most Marvel comics people can't even smoke anymore. I'm glad Garth Ennis's is a big enough name that he can operate outside Joe Quesada's blanket of crapiness.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:55 / 14.06.06
I've been consistently surprised, and pleasantly so, at how many quality tales Ennis can spin with a character who is essentially a walking cliche, moreso than most superhero characters.

The Tyger has the line (spoken by Frank in famous 1st person narration): "They'll blame [my grim one-man lifetime war] on Vietnam. And they'll be right....and they'll be wrong." The story shows Frank at age 10 encountered mob injustice in his neighborhood - his father is tough but even his father's attempts to stand up to the mob are rapidly quashed. A Marine friend of Frank's, older by several years, administers Punisher-like justice and provides an example for Frank on how to REALLY deal with those who operate outside the rules and law of society... in a story that sets up the image of Blake's tyger/tiger as a mirror of our boy Frank: a creature of all willpower, violence and the hunt, who is just so darn creepy that just maybe God didn't make him.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:00 / 14.06.06
>> what's ace about this punisher run, apart from the fact of a man in his late late fifties running around killing baddies by the dozen, whilst getting knocked about quite frequently and mentioning the inevitability of brain damage,

I also love the fact that Ennis has gotten approval to go against Marvel's 'everything in the MU happened oh, approximately 15 years ago' policy and the Punisher is now officially accepted as being in his 50s or even a tiny bit older (because Ennis wanted Punisher in Vietnam, esp. his BORN mini, to be canon).
 
 
rakker
09:37 / 02.01.07
I don't know if this is the right thread, but I didn't want to start a new one, because the topic is kind of limited and irrelevant to anything... But I was just wondering: I recently bought and read the Baracuda-paperback, and am a bit confused. At the end there, Punisher sinks a boat full of rich people attached to the evil corporation. Now, I'm sure most rich people are inherently evil and everything, but I thought a central part of The Punishers weird ethics is that he only kills those who are guilty of some sort of crime. The only crime I see attributed to most of the people on the boat (and their spouses) is a hypothetical willingness to accept a blackout of parts of Florida in order to maximize the company's profits. No crime committed, and they're all "outraged" when the CEO-guy is exposed on TV. Is there something I don't get? Is Punisher killing off "innocents" without batting an eyelid these days? Has the rest of the Max-imprint been like this?
 
 
Janean Patience
13:45 / 02.01.07
Ennis's Punisher Max run has been the saving of him as a writer, IMO. It's the unflinching brutality of it all which captivates. The horror of being a mass-murdering vigilante in something that's as close to our real world as possible in a monthly comic with a popular character. It's what I expected from the Punisher's first solo series back years ago. The violence is almost justified when you see what it's done to Frank Castle; only a teenager could think that murdering wreck was any kind of role model.

I'm waiting for the trade-trade, however, v3 of the hardback volumes, so I'm not up to date. It's got some spin-off about a barracuda?
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
21:26 / 02.01.07
The Barracuda spin off come out of that story arc, but the orriginal story arc is still mainly about Frank.

And it's been a while since I read that arc, but by the time Frank gets around to blowing up the yacht, aren't they all chomping at the bit to follow the young upstart kid's plan which still involves the blackouts and the deaths of hundreds or thousands?

For me, it was the recent Man of Stone arc that brought me back to the book. Wow that story had some intense moments in it. (And there was a cute nod to Ennis' Hitman as well.)
 
 
FinderWolf
01:51 / 03.01.07
I figure there must be something eeevil about the people on the boat who get blown up, I don't think Ennis would have the Punisher just randomly kill people who are wealthy and a bit decadent but not actually serious criminals. Haven't read that arc in a while, but there must be something.

"Man of Stone" was pretty terrific. Although the idea of a Barracuda spinoff [miniseries, I think, or one-shot?] is kind of weird....a book starring a villain? Reminds me of when the Joker or Dr. Doom had their own books.... It's not clear whether Frank would be in this Barracuda one-shot/mini/whatever, as I recall.
 
 
FinderWolf
01:52 / 03.01.07
To clarify, I think the Barracuda spinoff has not yet come out. I saw it listed in upcoming Previews.
 
 
murphy
17:40 / 12.02.07
A few posts above talked about PUNISHER as a statement on war. I think it's been Ennis' comics about war that have been among his greatests.

BORN was pretty good, although it was difficult to sort out the sometimes-goofy the-Devil-made-me-do-it origin of Frank as the Punisher.

TYGER was really good. While not specifically about war, the line quoted above, "They'll blame it on Viet Nam. And they'll be right... and they'll be wrong," sets the tone for a story about the savagery one particular veteran brought home.

The first three issues of 303 showed us the realities of contemporary militaries and contemporary wars.

The PUNISHER story arch with Nick Fury, MOTHER RUSSIA was my favorite so far. Again, not specifically set in war time, but his description of Nick Fury as "original hard case, black-ops, cold warrior" trying to reconcile his place in the contemporary world was terrific. And the Man of Stone as Fury's soviet doppelganger was played perfectly, and chillingly, as well.

BATTLER BRITTON was a war tale that wasn't as horrific as the others, but fun and telling in its own relatively-light-hearted way.

But the best of all have been Ennis' two 4-issue WAR STORY minis. I think far too often Ennis get stagnated by his black humor/dirty sex/gruesome violence/hard drinking reputation, and that is a shame. The sincere Ennis, as seen in most of the above, and certainly in WAR STORY, ranks as one of the best writers around.

The theme throughout all of the stories I've listed is the internal struggle of the soldier placing humanity, mercy, and rationality aside in favor of a sense of duty and of dedication to your men. As war seems to be one of the few constants throughout history, that sort of insight is always relevant.
 
 
Robert B
18:42 / 12.02.07
I recently decided to start picking up the trades for this series and man... really, really great stuff. I started out with the hardcover of Tyger, The Cell, and The End. The End was superb.

I've read the first two trades as well. Liked the first a lot. Could not believe the ending as I was a fan of the original Punisher series for a few years when it first started before the 3-4 titles it originally became. Volume two was OK but not as good as Volume 1. Have the third one ready to go. Seems this one may be back up to the Volume 1 standards judging from this thread.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:07 / 12.02.07
Very eloquently put, murphy. I agree that the War Story miniseries are top-notch (plus, they had some terrific artists on there as well).

The recent Afghanistan story had a powerful moment where Frank looks over the desolte Afghan mountain desert landscape and has a nightmarish vision of all the tanks, planes, helicopters, armaments and soliders who have fallen in that famously war-torn country. Almost like a ghost vision of an elephants graveyard of modern warfare and modern warriors.

The interaction with the certain-to-be-doomed love interest for Frank in this story (and the first story which featured her) was also extremely well-done; of course, the only girl for Frank is someone who's just as screwed-up as he is, with a history in black ops and vicious warfare.

I agree that when Ennis is on his game, his writing is fantastic. I think most of the story arcs in the Max Punisher series have been underappreciated gems -- through clever supporting casts and engaged concepts for each arc (there have been a few misses, but mostly hits on this front), Ennis manages to make the simple and cliche idea of the Punisher something interesting, compelling, and yes, even human. I'm impressed with how he manages to find new life in a character that most dismiss as a one-note borefest, appealing only as 'kewl' to 11 year olds cause, you know, he kills bad guys.

The recent arc, while focused around a clever concept (widows of all the mafia guys and gangsters/thugs Frank his offed join forces - a sort "Legion of Pissed Off Criminal Widows" - to end the man who ended their men), seems like it could go either way at this point - mediocre or high-quality. (I thought this concept was done a while ago with some mediocre Punisher Christmas or Valentine's Special written by Jimmy Palmiotti where Punisher widows join wallets to send a typically sexy female assassin to hunt down Frank, but I could be wrong.)

We have a cop who recently had to take the law into his own hands to spare lives, and who's feeling like he has an awful lot in common with the Punisher at this point, a caricature group of widows who are squabbling amongst themselves and plotting against Frank (we don't know their scheme yet), and a mysterious woman who was violently mutilated by those same widows who appears to be an X factor in the story so far, skulking about showing how pissed she is at her fate and seemingly spying on the killer widows. Jury is still out on this one, though it features the usual excellent art on the title (rotating art teams have almost always been top-notch, suiting the gritty realism of Frank's world).

I thought THE CELL was rather aces, too.
 
 
murphy
23:02 / 12.02.07
Finder-
Oh yeah, THE CELL was great; as essential a part of Frank's origin as BORN and TYGER are. It might be my favorite Frank tale of all, actually.

There's a moment in the latest issue of the WIDOWMAKER storyline that gets us as close to Frank's self-doubt as I think we'll ever see. When he murders the kiddie-porn-making parents, and pauses to consider the fates of the kids, he thinks how he'll likely see the older two boys in 20 years, presumably as they look down the barrel of his gun. There was a similar moment in Ennis' Marvel Knights PUNISHER series: Frank was in Belfast, and he was watching some young kids firebombing a car, and as he got to thinking about the little "Vietnamese kid with a necklace of ears," he asked himself "how young is too young."

Then there are the moments when he thinks of his kids and of his wife. Lines like "I let that thought through and it brings me to my knees" (or something like that) are amazingly powerful given the typical actions and attitudes of the character.

Even while portraying Frank as a one-dimensional killing machine, Ennis can still infuse those ever-so-rare moments of humanity that make him more believable.
 
 
Robert B
23:54 / 12.02.07
It may sound kind of cheesy or something but the MAX series punisher just seems to evoke a lot of emotion from me. From the gut sickening mass murder to the heart tugging when we are reminded why he does what he does.

Not many other comics out there have that impact. Not that I want them all to but it's nice to know there are a few. I never thought I'd dig the Punisher more than most other comics but there you go. It's a crazy world.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
14:51 / 13.02.07
he thinks how he'll likely see the older two boys in 20 years, presumably as they look down the barrel of his gun.

What got me about that line was that he still fully expects to be punishing people when he's seventy-fucking-seven years old.

He's a bit... singleminded, our boy Frank, yes?
 
 
Robert B
16:28 / 13.02.07
Well, he's about that age in The End isn't he?




(When he punishes the entire human race)
 
 
Alex's Grandma
22:08 / 13.02.07
I suppose the point is; there's nothing else Frank can do!!!

He can't exactly retire to Florida, can he?

He's a killing machine with a conscience, occasionally, but, nevertheless ...
 
 
Robert B
00:33 / 14.02.07
No. There should be a "Retirement in Florida" Punisher One-Shot about a mafioso type taking over the neighborhood association only to find out that Frank Castle has just moved in next door.
 
 
murphy
15:28 / 16.02.07
Off topic in an same-house-different-line kind of way:

I bought and read Punisher War Journal #3, the Civil War tie-in that has Captain America decking the Punisher.

My initial thought was that it was just terrible. That's also my second thought. Third as well.

My question, though is this: I thought that Marvel-Proper had retconned Frank into being younger than he had previously been portrayed. But in this issue, he was in basic, prior to Viet Nam.

.
.
.

And this bit pissed me off a bit as well: The Captain America stand in that was training Frank (if he was, indeed, a stand-in; that wasn't made super-duper clear), made reference to the "Man in Black" not just being Johnny Cash. Okay, Johnny recorded "The Man in Black" well after the start of the Viet Nam war. That kind of thing is just sloppy.
 
 
Robert B
19:18 / 16.02.07
Yet further derailment but not really stuff:

Yeah, I've tried to really like Punisher War Journal because I like Fraction's Casanova (and even Iron Fist) but overall it just isn't good. It has some good moments but Punisher MAX has spoiled me on the character I guess.
 
 
Kirk Ultra
03:45 / 19.02.07
Captain America decking the Punisher? I haven't read the issue in question, but that's annoying on so many levels. Garth Ennis's Punisher has been a decidedly anti-war comic. This is especially important in the times we're living in today. Captain America, on the other hand, had a story arc recently where he went to Guantanamo and gave it his superhero seal of approval. If there's anybody who should be getting punched in the face it's Captain America.
 
 
Kirk Ultra
04:16 / 19.02.07
Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong about the Captain America in Guantanamo story. I bought the first few issues of it because it had Chris Bachallo art, but I was to disgusted by what was happening in the story to finish it.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
17:25 / 19.02.07
In response to the decking:

And trust me, the Punisher came off a lot better in that confrontation than Cap did. In fact, he came off as more Captain America-esque than Cap has in years. It really was a brilliant scene.
 
 
Kirk Ultra
01:54 / 20.02.07
Oh, well that's good then. Never mind.
 
 
The Falcon
22:42 / 03.06.07
So, I promised to write up something about 'The Slavers' and I'm trying to psyche myself to read it for the second time to do so, rereading Nico's prophetic words in this thread's first post: That was really good. I'm not sure I want to read that again anytime soon.

However much one might have considered that the case with 'In the Beginning', it is exponentially moreso with this post's topic. (I should've written about it when I'd just read it, but it's like so many things and I'm an intransigent piece of shit.) I'm not actually sure I ever want to read it again, but it is brilliant. So perhaps I'll just bore you with half-arsed recollections and, you know, feelings - the sort of thing that might better be known in Frank Castle's world as 'weaknesses'.

Anyway, yeah. It's a peculiarly transcendental thing this arc - the utterly grave subject of human slavery in a Punisher comic sounds like an absolute recipe for disaster, just ludicrous, but it manages - through being well-researched, immediate and some ultraviolence which is, frankly, assuaging after having read the narrativised research. Still doesn't seem quite enough to justify it.

For all that the Punisher has been set out since the beginning of Ennis' work on the character as emphatically not someone to be identified with: a psychopath, a serial killer - which he is, indubitably, I felt utterly complicit in the revolting treatments meted out to antagonists here. That's a line that's always been being blurred, progressively less cartoonishly to this point (and, arguably, with Zakharov in the 'Man of Stone' arc that followed) because, based on what I've read elsewhere, the slavers presented were no better or worse than real ones. Which is to say: they are utterly, irredeemably repugnant.

It's troubling to have one's committed anti-death penalty belief tried by a comic featuring a Marvel trademark, via that skull-chested icon's discussions with a social worker. I mean, she may be offering up straw men, I haven't read very deeply on the topic because I'd very likely end up crying all day but it's thrown into a fairly sharp relief, essentially concluding that these fucks really have to die, preferably awfully (and I honestly don't think that I can conceive any way that they don't,) as every Punisher MAX arc has done - it is formulaic, but it makes you, the reader, feel a tiny bit better when they do. It's not much, there's no pat or soothing ending for the victim who leads off the story, it is only a story, and they really ought to have suggested some charities at the very least in the trade to donate to, though that does run somewhat counter to the story's Heart of Vengeance but still. It's quite easily the most abysmally affecting and unique comic I've read this last or any year, without question, absolutely no fun at all, and pulled off an incredibly difficult balancing act.
 
  

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