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Underground > Creation >

Is this art? (WARNING- non-worksafe pix)

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20:18 / 14.05.04

When did I call someone a cunt?

I posted a piece of art and even explained it later. You must have misinterpreted it using the standard western linguistic obsession and were clearly unable to cope with it

Whatever. Your art was 'Rage is a cunt.' typed repeatedly in her thread.

20:24 / 14.05.04

Ok, enough baiting.
I'm sorry. What I was trying to say is that what you think of as an artistic statement is very subjective, my post was an attempt to present something which could be defended as art despite its clearly offensive content: just like yours.
I know that I will feel sick about those pictures for a very long time, and you effectively tricked me into looking at something I had actively avoided.
While I understand that people should be presented with the realities of death and horror I think this was very much the wrong way to do it.
The work you presented is secondary to the shock value, it's little more than a realistic version of the "Eye Test" game which did the rounds last year, and as such you are using the pointless death of a man into an internet prank.
...and while I am very pissed off with you, I do not think you are a cunt. The expression was chosen to get a reaction more than anything else.

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:42 / 14.05.04

Te tum. It's not very good. It is beginners' Photoshop created and delivered with a minimum of effort. Rage has once again outraged her middle-class forebears without actually having to upset them and thus endanger the steady stream of cash and support. Hey ho.

00:29 / 15.05.04

Well, I don't visit this forum very often anymore, and I possibly won't revisit this thread, but I want to say for rages sake, that I quite like it. I'm not the brainiest of kids, but I understand the point, and I think the way it comes across is going to be effective for most people. Shocking your audience can only go so far mind, you can only play that card so many times before people just get numb.

02:40 / 15.05.04

i have a question.
for the artist.

why wont you believe that it isnt any good?

02:44 / 15.05.04

to firewave.
on cube's post.

rage was blatantly trying to offend. all that makes her art different from cube's is that it is designed to offend a larger group.

why defend her over him,
even more so as he was responding to her implied invitation to offend?

03:17 / 15.05.04

I want this thread DELETED.

You edit my initial post so the picture is no longer displayed when you click on the subject LINK. This defeats the purpose of this experiment in internet adventure LAND. Get rid of this thread because it no longer has any USE.

Censorship SUCKS. You guys are all for civil liberties yet you stop the flow of artwork created by young aspiring FEMALES. You are an abomination to UNITY. You are a disgrace to MOBILITY. You ruin AUTONOMY.

You are no different than Clear Channel.

03:44 / 15.05.04

Are you going to leave again?

03:57 / 15.05.04

I disagreed to your action when the thread was in conversation because a discussion has arisen, and it has been the board practice for as long as I can remember to link out to pictures which could potentially get people in trouble if they view them at work, with a note to the effect that the image is not work safe.

If you're adamant about having it deleted, then you can move it to a different location wherever you're hosting it or change the file name, making the link invalid, or you can put in the request again here, now that it's in creation. I personally don't think it's fair to the other posters who've seen your work to yank the entire thread out from under them, but it's on creation turf now, and up to the mods here.

Your experiment hinged on people not being able to completely control what they were about to see- no warnings, no link. Now you want to control what people say about it by deleting their commentary. The moderation actions are just as much data for your experiment as any other reaction. Thus, I don't think your experiment has been compromised at all.

On a more personal note: We are not your guinea pigs, at least I'm not.

06:37 / 15.05.04

You mods ruin my thread by reducing my picture to a tiny little link and now you're trying to play teacher? Delete it cause you ruined it. If you don't delete it you have nothing but YOUR OWN THREAD DECAY.

Eternal thread decay.

Could have predicted your actions a mile away.

That picture wasn't meant to be "good." It was meant to stir you up. Hence, art. The REEEEEEAL ART was in this experimental process and not in the picture itself.

Yes, I was being an asshole. But you guys still censored me, and you sure seem to be dogmatic when it comes to shit like anti-censorship. Hypocrite point five.

Maybe I'll leave for a while and come back all nice and mature. Mayyyybe. You guys are intelligent and witty, sure, yet you're practically *begging* to be guinea pigs.

this used to be a freaky thread
so different from your beaky head
(you pseudo-chicken gods!)
you turned it into pencil lead
but what did you ever write?
(instead instead instead!)
what did you ever smite?
(all is dead dead dead!)
your own thread decay
eternal thread decay
send the art away away away
awaaaaaaay

Our Lady Has Left the Building

06:55 / 15.05.04

Puh-leaze, we'll do anything you want as long as you stop the awful childish poetry. You might want to restart this thread though, you know, for the LAST TIME you were going and never coming back because we didn't accept your godlike genius?

Seeing as how, to post an image on this board you have to host it elsewhere and either link to it from here or use image tags to display it here, I can't really accept your claims of censorship. All we did was change it from one to the other, and if you've got the right to post it then you've got to balance that against the larger right of those willing to voice an opinion that they didn't want it to automatically pop up on their screens.

And as for criticising Cube for using the 'c' word, I'm interested that you complain about that when you at least used 'ho's', 'bitches' and 'sluts' in that little song you did earlier in the month. Oh wait, that was 'empowering' wasn't it, whilst Cube is one of those dirty oppressors. Sorry, just got it, my bad...

08:19 / 15.05.04

You guys are all for civil liberties yet you stop the flow of artwork

Ah, the ol' "the right of free speech means I can say whatever I want when I want" argument. Was this not fully discussed in your American history classes?

Visually, it was poorly executed. As for "stirring people up," if that is a requisite quality of art, it didn't do that very well either; certainly no better than, say, treading dogshit into the house.

10:36 / 15.05.04

The point of cube's (masterful, imo) post went completely over your head then, Rage.

Thought so. Me so shocked. You know where the door is. The revolving one.

10:36 / 15.05.04

Surely part of being an artist is to be open to, and learn from, the responses (or reactions) people have to your work. An artist aspires to be an effective communciator, to encapsulate their message in a way that the greatest number of people will receive it. You seem to be blaming your audience for not receiving it the way you hoped or expected. The fact it was “censored” is part of the response people are making to your art. Surely that is feedback that you can use and learn from.

You’re accusing people of trying to repress or silence you somehow, but what about other people’s desire to be listened to and heard by you? Shouldn’t the purpose of art be to provoke discussion, to draw other people in? The fact that you are demanding to have the thread deleted because people didn’t respond the way you wanted makes you come across as very domineering and narrow minded. And those are not the qualities of a good artist.

By my measure, your piece of art has failed, because you have failed to understand or engage with your audience, but have only alienated us.

15:10 / 15.05.04

Delete it cause you ruined it.

Delete it your damn self. Change the file name to "those wretched meanies at Barbelith ruined my little prank." You want to experiment, go put it on DeviantArt, at least there your thumbnail pic will shock and awe. Put it on a t-shirt and walk around downtown. Experiment on the real public, where they can react to you in person if you're so artistically brave and so tremendously concerned about shaking people up.

15:36 / 15.05.04

That picture wasn't meant to be "good." It was meant to stir you up.
Well, I am glad that it wasn't meant to be good, because it wasn't, but then what was the point? To stir me up? I have seen way more horrific imagery in my life, takes quite a bit to shock me.
You should have spent more time on the piece.If it is true that you didn't really care about the image itself, that is to bad, cause it just means that as an artist you are sloppy and showing bad form. If you really wanted to have said something, you would have made it a great package, but maybe you didn't have that much to say?

18:43 / 15.05.04

Actually, what amazes me here is the impossibly immature and childish presumption that what offends people about this has anything at all to do with *you,* Rage. It isn't actually *your* art that bothers people, it's the photos that someone else took of a senseless act of violence that (I presume) you did not participate in, which you then copied from a website and incorporated into your collage. What offends me is that you looked at photographs of an innocent man's murder and saw only the building blocks for a photoshop masterpiece that I'm sure you've spent much more time defending than you did composing. What it says to me is that you lack the empathy necessary to understand what the photographs actually represent. You know *that* they shock people, but you don't know why; if you did, you wouldn't have done something so, frankly, idiotic. You're the one who doesn't get it.

You also haven't been censored. You would have been censored, on most boards, even for providing a link to that shit (meaning the photos, not what you did with them), much less posting the actual secondhand images. You probably would have been banned altogether. Whatever. But let's pretend you had been censored (you weren't). How is it that you have a knee-jerk reaction to the notion of censorship that you lack when it comes to the notion of a human being being killed for no reason? I'm sorry, but your priorities are incredibly fucked up. Of the two, I think an artist's freedom to express herself using borrowed images of a *recent* execution is a little less important than a person's freedom not to have his fucking head chopped off. Perhaps you could e-mail your magnum opus to the victim's father and ask him which he thinks is more compelling.

Using a sexist epithet against you did actually represent even less effort than you put into the creation of your piece, and I think it's about as defensible. On the other hand, a lot of people have responded to you very thoughtfully, and it's all sailed over your head. So I can see why someone would feel compelled to hit you with mindless repetition of a four-letter word. You don't seem capable (willing, at least) of understanding anything more complicated.

.

21:55 / 15.05.04

The question "is this art?" is almost always redundant, and in this case is rather attacking straw men. The answer, though not the answer you want to hear is this:

Yes, it's art. Crass, cheap, immature, unthinking and pointless art. Taking shocking images out of context simply for shock value isn't a particularly clever or worthwhile thing to do, and shows a distinct lack of understanding as to the context the images came from in the first place. You might have carried it off it if you'd put some effort into it. But probably not. If you're so keen on trying to say something, come back when you have something to say.

Matthew Fluxington

22:29 / 15.05.04

Rage, you really need to learn how to separate your narcissism from the concept of art.

Everything else I have to say about this has already been covered by the likes of Haus and Eddie Thirteen.

22:33 / 15.05.04

Rage, I like you, honestly.

But sometimes you behave like a spoilt bloody child.

22:53 / 15.05.04

So I can see why someone would feel compelled to hit you with mindless repetition of a four-letter word. You don't seem capable (willing, at least) of understanding anything more complicated.

I think this is mad! Of course she understands more complicated things than the repitition of a four letter word. I think you guys are going a little over the top here. The way i see it, the guy's give up his life for a art, and Rage is respecting what he's done by making it into her own art. Why she has to get a shitload of abuse just because you can't HACK the image i don't know.

Deal with it. The guy got his head chopped off in the name of art, more bottle than any of us combined. I'm not saying like it, i'm just saying : Don't give Rage a load of shit just because it offends you.

If it offends you then look into why it offends you.

This is the creation thread, it's designed for originality. It's art for God and Goddesses sake. No need to take out how much your shocked on Rage, work out why your shocked, that's the whole point of why it's here.

23:03 / 15.05.04

The way i see it, the guy's give up his life for a art...The guy got his head chopped off in the name of art, more bottle than any of us combined.

What in the name of holy fuck are you talking about?

23:14 / 15.05.04

Points:

1) Originality? Please. Rotten.com got there first.

2) Read. The. Fucking. Posts. A fair few people have gone to the trouble of explaining that they're not so much offended by the use of the images as they are by the fact that it's just shit art. If you're going to try and argue with them, at least make the effort to Read. Their. Posts.

3) Quite seriously, Rage appears to have compeletely missed the point of cube's post, as proven by her own reaction to it. If her definition of art is that it's supposed to shock and offend, then, well, given her reaction to it she's a bit of a hypocrite, no?

4) You might want to tell the family that they shouldn't worry, because their kid gave up his life in the interests of art. Let me know when you're going to meet them and I'll make sure to pop around with my camera to capture the results. More art!

23:27 / 15.05.04

Don't give Rage a load of shit just because it offends you.

It's our form of performance art. Don't you fucking opress me.

23:35 / 15.05.04

What in the name of holy fuck are you talking about?

This thread. (it's saturday night and i've just got in from drinking, but that should really be beside the point, apart from the obvious spelling mistakes.)

Points:

1) Originality? Please. Rotten.com got there first.

Ok, i wasn't talking about who got here first though, just that i thought it was what Rage had made of the images.

2) Read. The. Fucking. Posts. A fair few people have gone to the trouble of explaining that they're not so much offended by the use of the images as they are by the fact that it's just shit art. If you're going to try and argue with them, at least make the effort to Read. Their. Posts.

I've read. the. fucking. posts. And if they are talking about art being shit then fair enough, but please, i might be pissed but i'm not on zombie life support.

3) Quite seriously, Rage appears to have compeletely missed the point of cube's post, as proven by her own reaction to it. If her definition of art is that it's supposed to shock and offend, then, well, given her reaction to it she's a bit of a hypocrite, no?

Well i didn't see Rage typing : Cube is a cunt, Cube is a cunt repeatedly so no, i don't think that she's a hypocrite.

4) You might want to tell the family that they shouldn't worry, because their kid gave up his life in the interests of art. Let me know when you're going to meet them and I'll make sure to pop around with my camera to capture the results. More art!

It was his choice, no matter how much it hurts. The world's fucked, maybe he woke a few people up.

It's not about his family, it's about him and his own self sacrifice, of course he's a bit of a cunt for not telling his family if he didn't but that's not for us to discuss.

Fuck, delete it before it wakes anyone up for fucks sake.

23:38 / 15.05.04

It's so obvious that the world's a prison but the sleepers don't see.

What? I'm wrong? Well go back to the first post and click on the fucking link.

That's art.

23:43 / 15.05.04

Of course she's a hypocrite. She wanted to provoke shock and offense, then whinged when she was faced with something that somebody else claimed as art and that she personally found shocking and offensive.

I've read. the. fucking. posts. And if they are talking about art being shit then fair enough, but please, i might be pissed but i'm not on zombie life support.

If you've read the posts, how come you don't know what they're talking about? Confused much?

Further to my previous points:

5) If her intention with this was as she claims, then she has no grounds on which to cry foul, because she's received the precisely reaction she set out for.

And dude, if you're going to start going on about sheep, "you're not awake," and so forth - and it seems that's where you're now headed - be advised that we've heard that all before, too. many, many times.

23:43 / 15.05.04

Woops, have i given the game away? It really is a prison?

Well then delete the thread.

Just like the creator of it requested.

23:47 / 15.05.04

Firewave. I beg you to stop posting right now and go to bed. You’ve already said a whole bunch of stuff tonight that I’d be altogether more inclined to argue with if I didn’t think you’ll probably be apologising for it all in the morning.

23:51 / 15.05.04

Woops, crosspost.

Of course she's a hypocrite. She wanted to provoke shock and offense, then whinged when she was faced with something that somebody else claimed as art and that she personally found shocking and offensive.

I've read. the. fucking. posts. And if they are talking about art being shit then fair enough, but please, i might be pissed but i'm not on zombie life support.

If you've read the posts, how come you don't know what they're talking about? Confused much?

Yeah yeah, most people are simply hitting back because they saw something that they didn't want to see. I know, i've been there myself, just like you surely have. Why you defend them against Rage i don't know.

Further to my previous points:

5) If her intention with this was as she claims, then she has no grounds on which to cry foul, because she's received the precisely reaction she set out for.

And dude, if you're going to start going on about sheep, "you're not awake," and so forth - and it seems that's where you're now headed - be advised that we've heard that all before, too. many, many times.

Can never be said enough mate, and you'll never hear the end of it unless your awake to the fact that sometimes, you have to admit that you've made a mistake.

Yeah, i've been there, it sucks, and do you know what the worst part is?

You still have to admit that your fucked even when you think your awake, because most times : your only partially awake, not fully.

23:53 / 15.05.04

Firewave. I beg you to stop posting right now and go to bed. You’ve already said a whole bunch of stuff tonight that I’d be altogether more inclined to argue with if I didn’t think you’ll probably be apologising for it all in the morning.

Hey thanks man, and even though i'm about to take you up on that offer : it's only there because it had to be.

23:57 / 15.05.04

Jesus, I wish I was drunk right now. It might help me to deal with incredible egomania saturating this entire thread.

23:59 / 15.05.04

00:01 / 16.05.04

I love you Bio.

00:02 / 16.05.04

It was his choice, no matter how much it hurts. The world's fucked, maybe he woke a few people up.

It's not about his family, it's about him and his own self sacrifice

To clarify, Firewave, unless I'm very much mistaken, that photo is of a prisoner who was executed in Iraq. I'm at a loss as to where you're getting this talk of self-sacrifice from. Do you think that Rage got one of her mates to agree to be decapitated so that she could use the picture? I'm really confused as to how you're interpreting this.

And what has people being asleep or awake got to do with anything? These images were not shown on the news because of their shocking nature. Are you saying that these images should be shown? I think there's also the question of de-sensitisation to consider i.e. the more shocking images we see, the less likely we are to be affected by them. Therefore shocking images should arguably be used in moderation and responsibly, out of respect for the recipient, but also to ensure their effectiveness.

People are raising some valid questions as to whether what Rage has done is either effective or responsible. This has nothing to do with people not being able to hack it. And even if it was, what kind of boast is it to say you can 'hack it'? Is there or should there ever be a point where an image like that would not be shocking and disturbing? Aren't you disturbed by it Firewave? Or are you so 'awake' that you're immune to the predictable 'shocked' response that weaker individuals seem to be having?

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