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Underground > Comic Books >

Xorn Returns!

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Matthew Fluxington

16:43 / 21.05.04

1) Flyboy is OTM about how the rest of the characters are dealing with Scott and Emma. I think that Claremont and Austen are pretty right on about this, especially from the non-NXM characters.

2) I'm not really bothered by them bringing in the new Xorn, because it stands to reason that Magneto based his character on a preexisting mutant in case the X-Men did some fact-checking. It also makes a bit more sense if the Xorn we met in the annual was the real Xorn, and the one that Cyclops recruited later was Magneto pretending to be Xorn. That actually clears up one of the biggest continuity glitches in NXM.

3) A few million mutants died in Genosha, but off-panel. This was done deliberately - we can pretend that a lot second-rate older characters died then, but there's no mention of them or proof, so no characters are taken away from other writers for no good reason.

4) Magneto was obviously going to return, it's just lame that they are probably not doing it in an interesting or creative way (see our Magneto Return Theories thread for some way better ideas than whatever Claremont et al are going to come up with.) Morrison is no dummy, he knew that this was going to happen. He acknowledges it in the comic when Magneto jokes that his other mutant power is the ability to keep coming back. The fact is, Magneto is too great of a character and should always be there for other writers to explore, just like Wolverine, Xavier, etc. Ideally, Morrison should never have killed the guy in the first place.

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

17:38 / 21.05.04

1) Yeah, but as someone else said, where once other x-characters were handling it like adults, now they're rediculously bitchy and juvinile about it and Claremont even writes it like Scott and Emma are sinister and wrong. Yeah, a lot of characters would be pissed (like the returned Rachel Grey/Marvel Girl) but jesus, is it possible for anyone to act like an adult in an x-book anymore?

2) Of course Mags was going to come back, but so fast? And in a way that is seemingly going to nullify everything that Morrison did with him?

18:12 / 21.05.04

Well, while I agree that all of this sounds very lame, and is fairly damning evidence that Marvel is reverting to its early '90s creative nadir (albeit without the support of a booming speculator market, which means that Marvel's mostly irrelevant "comics division" may well be fucked), I don't think it affects Morrison's NXM run one iota. Dark Knight isn't in some way diminished because, continuity-wise, it isn't "real" (or, for that matter, because DK2 sucked), The Godfather Parts I and II are not retroactively negated by the horror that is Part III, no one's gonna stop reading The Scarlet Letter because it was turned into a softcore porn starring Demi Moore's breast implants, etc. I won't enjoy NXM any less because what followed was crap. It's unfortunate, but isn't it pretty much to be expected?

I do mourn the much more interesting company that Marvel seemed very briefly to have turned into at the end of the last decade and the beginning of this one, but oh well. To be honest, I'd rather read the creator-owned work of the better creators, and I'm comfortable with pretty much everyone who's still at Marvel slaving away in the salt mines of crappy corporate comics under the direction of a totalitarian editorial regime. Plus, it was getting kinda embarrassing to be seen reading X-Men comics.

Matthew Fluxington

19:19 / 21.05.04

Exactly, NXM was always its own thing - it's a solid story with a beginning, middle, and end.

I've got to say, though, that I'm really excited about Joss Whedon's 12 issues, and that I genuinely enjoyed the first issue of Claremont/Davis Uncanny X-Men, so as long as they don't fuck anything up too badly, I'm happy.

Matthew Fluxington

19:23 / 21.05.04

I haven't yet read X-Men #157, but other than Rachel's bad attitude toward Emma in UXM #444 and the stuff with Henry and Scott in Austen's interim NXM issues (which are both totally within the character of both - Jean was *sorta* Rachel's mom, and she was Henry's best friend since they were teenagers), what examples can you give of the characters being childish and bratty about the Scott/Emma situation?

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

07:19 / 22.05.04

a) I don't think that post-NXM changes Grant's run in any way. No matter who the new Xorn is or who how the retcon the end of Grant's run, it will still be my all time favourite X-run.

b) Let's see, I only have my Uncanny sitting in front of me but Logan gives Cyke some shit about it and the scene where Emma and Scott are making out is treated in a kind of sinister manner. I seem to recall something in X-Men about it too, but I don't have it at hand.

And to me, Beast should be one of the few X-Types who does understand the Scott/Emma thing. Especially given that he watched Jean ressurect Emma and go into her "Come back. Scott needs you" bit.

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

07:24 / 22.05.04

Oh, and speaking of people (like Rachel Grey/Marvel Girl) who should have interesting reactions to the whole Scott/Emma thing, there's Cable, whom if I recall correctly, was hinted at having had a fling with Emma many years ago. And he's Scott's son who considered Jean a mom. That's got to make for a fun thanksgiving.

13:41 / 24.05.04

During Morrison´s run, I got the impression that Henry was attracted by Emma, or at least, had a deeper level of identification with her... that kinda connects with his opinion on Scott/Emma´s relationship

Our Lady Has Left the Building

14:39 / 24.05.04

Well, in the very first issue he says about how his new mutation has sent his hormones all out wack, we don't see anything more of that except for his outburst at the end of 'Imperial' that Emma is betraying them, although it does explain in the last issue about why he's so desperate that he takes Kick and gets overrun by Sublime.

Matthew Fluxington

15:16 / 24.05.04

I think that the most shocking thing about X-Men #157 is not the return of Xorn, but that Chuck Austen has risen to the level of inoffensive mediocrity. Congrats, Chuck! Keep reaching for the stars.

01:45 / 28.05.04

we need a spoiler label for this thread. I didn't know Xorn was a construct

Our Lady Has Left the Building

13:01 / 28.05.04

Would I spoil it for you if I say that Cassie swapped places with Xavier?

13:46 / 28.05.04

The issues have been out for almost a year now... even the trade is out!

I don't think spoiler tags are relevant anymore.

Jean's dead too (gloats)

14:47 / 28.05.04

Jean's dead too (gloats)

Don't worry, she'll be back in time for Christmas.

And she'll be really, really mad about Emma stealing her husband away.

Say, did anyone notice that the enormous Magneto statue, which Wolverine implausibly destroys in Austen's New X meN issues, is standing, unblemished, full square in the background of the first page of Excalibur #1?

It's an editorial fuck-up-o-rama, at least as far as I can see.

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:54 / 28.05.04

I'm embarrased to know this, but I believe Polaris rebuilt it in the issue after that.

16:30 / 28.05.04

Obviously, you shouldn't take this personally, Fly, but that's totally retarded.

Are people *sure* that Chuck Austen's getting better?

Oh! And I don't buy Xorn's being based on a real guy at all. Doesn't Magneto say to Xavier during 'Planet X'

"Shyeah, right. A guy with a star in place of a brain. That's so obviously phony I can't believe you didn't see through it."

or words to that effect?

Which I can't see him saying if he'd based his concept around an actual guy who did have a star in place of a brain.

Just my 2c from the sidelines.

19:26 / 29.05.04

Hint:

Jean=Xorn

08:59 / 30.05.04

Oh god... if that wasn't so Austen-at-Marvel-mixing-up-all-continuity-ever I'd laugh at it.
Right now it seems completely plausible.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

13:08 / 30.05.04

Bringing back Jean is a simple trip to the moon and the introduction of a cosmic scale threat for her to fight. She never really died in Grant's run, did she? Looked well alive to me come #154.

They can bring her back whenever. Probably pre-X3, because she's in pretty much the same position there as well.

04:56 / 01.06.04

uhm....i like when WOlverine is talking to Cyclops and says "Look, I appreciate it but I can't be on all the teams!".

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

11:02 / 03.06.04

Yeah, Wolverine's quip was funny. I mean given that he's got a solo book, is on all three x-teams and is probably going to be an Avenger, shortly.

18:37 / 10.06.04

Okay, hopefully I am jumping the gun, but this is a new low for Marvel's editorial department.

Read this. It's a preview for part 2 of the "Xorn" arc. Please try your hardest not to laugh, especially when Logan speaks.

Not the same Xorn?

A new low.

19:10 / 10.06.04

So Do they think that Magneto replaced Xorn just before Planet X? If Xorn lived at the mansion for a whole school year, and the Uncanny strikeforce isn't aprised of their housemates' powers, capabiites, bios? My gawd...

I mean, I can get with the fact that Weapon Plus swept in following the assault on the Chinese Prison and captured "original" Xorn as the perfect operative, and when he proved incapable, they orchestrated Magneto's involvement... Makes sense to me, but Austen will never pull it off. I doubt he can wrap his head around the whole Sublime as collective consciousness thing.

Same but different? I mean, it makes no sense that Wolverine couldn't smell Magneto, but maybe scent was another part of the disguise. I mean, ceramic thought proof panels are possible...

19:13 / 10.06.04

I ESPECIALLY hate the bickering competition going on in Havok's team.

Matthew Fluxington

20:53 / 10.06.04

I don't get it. Wolverine knows that the Xorn they knew was Magneto.

ONLY NICE THINGS

06:10 / 11.06.04

So Do they think that Magneto replaced Xorn just before Planet X? If Xorn lived at the mansion for a whole school year, and the Uncanny strikeforce isn't aprised of their housemates' powers, capabiites, bios? My gawd...

Butbutbut - the "I am Xorn! I will HEAL you!" bit at the end of "Imperial" is identified as Magneto manipulating the nanosentinels in the others' blood...

09:37 / 11.06.04

Does anyone really think Chuck bothered reading the last three NXM arc's before he started writing?
Does anyone think GM mentioned that "the X-men can end at with my run if you want it to" doesn't point to this sort of continuity rejigging?
It's pathetic, Wolverine tells Jean that Magneto was Xorn all along... why on earth doesn't anyone mention it now?
If there's a memo about his star for a brain why isn't there a memo saying "but he was bloody Magneto!!"

Sigh...
I'm not bothering anymore. Art looked nice though (at last). Since when was the squid boy a punk?

10:45 / 11.06.04

so juggernaut's a full-on goody now? ~(with an attichood o course)

bollocks - which prick's idea was that?

it was austen's yes that's right

Our Lady Has Left the Building

12:32 / 11.06.04

Apparently he's not unstoppable now either. But really, does Austen have some sort of contract that no-one edits his work? Because even if this gets in, I can't believe an editor wouldn't know what the score is in X-Men. But then Austen wrote that story in which it was thought that the Rapture was part of Catholic belief, or the Nightcrawler origin story in which, so that a demon can escape from his hell dimension to earth he... um, escapes to earth to impregnate lots of women so they have baby mutants that can help him escape his hell dimension. They just aren't making any effort are they?

13:12 / 11.06.04

officex@marvel.com

I'm going to let off some steam...any other takers?

15:01 / 11.06.04

There's been mention of lots of editorial interfering with his storylines, the whole "She Lies With Angels" storyline was an editorial idea apparently.
Does this mean editorial are using mr-writer-for-hire (and CC) to undo anything that could mess with future merchandising (Xorn, Magneto, etc etc)?
Looks like it to me.
Chuck can take the blame, he's the X-scapegoat already, and everyone's happy (except the readers?).

15:19 / 11.06.04

Well, maybe some editors had a problem with Xorn's Annual characterization versus his being Magneto throughout the New X-Men run. Xorn speaks only Chinese in the Annual, and exhibits real gravity and plasma powers. Later, when Cyclops retrieves him from the temple, Xorn exhibits strange new "healing" powers.

I'm assuming that they DID liberate the original Xorn. Sublime WAS doublecrossed and surprised. After the X-Men left Xorn in China to recuperate, he was recaptured by Weapon Plus operatives and had his memories and scent and "sound" copied for use as a disguise for Magneto, Sublime's ultimate weapon. Magneto was informed by Weapon Plus that Xorn is a purely fictional character. I'm assuming that might be the editorial loophole.

Now, is original Xorn dead?

Matthew Fluxington

15:47 / 11.06.04

I think it's perfectly reasonable and logical to establish that the Xorn from the annual was one guy, and that the Xorn that Scott recruits is Magneto in disguise.

It's totally unconscionable to pretend that the Xorn from Imperial onward isn't Magneto.

Be easy on Austen. This storyline WAS NOT HIS IDEA. The editors told him to write this Xorn story. It was something which was imposed on him.

17:42 / 11.06.04

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA AHAHAAHAHAHAAA!~!!!!!!

Logan: "He smells similar. ...similar, but different, somehow"

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!! This is truly a new low of ridiculousness. Both for the X-editors and for Austen, the man who wrote the above line of "dialogue."

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

23:59 / 11.06.04

Yeah, as much as I can't believe i'm defending Austen, he's admitted he's under an editorial mandate to "bring back Xorn" in an effort to "save Magneto".

What will probably end up being revealed is that Xorneto was neither Xorn nor Magneto... thus giving us the chummy Mags and Xavier of Exaclibur.

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