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Xorn Returns!

 
  

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I'm Rick Jones, bitch
10:40 / 13.05.04
Holy Preview, Batman!

"Black Holes" Part 1 of Something of "Day of The Atom"

Or it could be that other guy, the one that grant talked about lots but never used...
 
 
"See me for what I am, OK?"
21:50 / 13.05.04
I swear that if that HACK Austen pisses all over the idea of Xorn, I will hunt him down and cut off his hands so he can't write. I will then rip out his tongue so that he can't dictate for another to write. Finally, I will gouge out his eyes and burst his eardrums so that he cannot read, or have read to him, another writer's work for him to destroy.

I may also cut off his penis for the really shit 'She Lies With Angels' story. I like 'Romeo and Juliet', damnit!

As to the actual preview pages...ye gods. Austen's direlogue and Larocca's blazingly average art make not so brilliant comic.
 
 
"See me for what I am, OK?"
21:51 / 13.05.04
Okay. So that was OTT. A little. But really...
 
 
eddie thirteen
23:42 / 13.05.04
But...he already can't write....
 
 
CameronStewart
04:03 / 14.05.04
One of the things I liked about Xorn was that he was a character who was interesting and popular, and was then "killed off" in a manner that was the only sure-fire way to ensure that he could never, ever come back - he never existed.

I didn't figure they'd actually try to resurrect him, and certainly not this soon.
 
 
ciarconn
11:56 / 14.05.04
Oh, didn´t you get that hidden tip? Apocalypse is coming back... and since it´s China, Austen must have had the original idea of disguising him as Xorn, a Chinese bodisatva mutant... who will infiltrate the X men and deceive the two most powerful telepaths on earth...
...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:07 / 14.05.04
"Crumble"? Crumble's not a sound effect... crumble's a dessert, for fuck's sake.

Oh well. Another one not to add to my shopping list.
 
 
diz
14:30 / 14.05.04
I didn't figure they'd actually try to resurrect him, and certainly not this soon.

the only way they could resurrect him that would be any good would be if someone or, preferably, multiple someones start consciously using the idea of Xorn and sort of don the Xorn identity like a mask. even though Xorn was never "real," he had a very real effect on people, and i could totally see a few bright people deciding that there needs to be a Xorn, and that if one doesn't really exist, that they have to make one up. i kinda thought Planet X was going that way, with Beak or somebody putting on the discarded Xorn helmet or something.

i wish i had the willpower to actually ignore things that writers like Austen do to the work of other writers...
 
 
Mario
15:28 / 14.05.04
Oddly enough, I just finished a novel with a similar character...a role that's played by multiple folk, and has gained something of an independent identity.

It's called "Of The City Of The Saved", and is part of Mad Norwegian Press's FACTION PARADOX line.
 
 
diz
16:46 / 14.05.04
Oddly enough, I just finished a novel with a similar character...a role that's played by multiple folk, and has gained something of an independent identity.

It's called "Of The City Of The Saved", and is part of Mad Norwegian Press's FACTION PARADOX line.


hmm. cool. i will check that out. i'm just starting to get into FP after Mister Six started that thread on it here. i have the two issues of the comic and i just bought The Book of the War a few days ago. my brain is still grappling with some of the entries in that one.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
19:05 / 14.05.04
I don't see why they couldn't just explain that there was in fact a real Xorn whom Magneto was impersonating. That could be what Austen is doing, and though I generally loathe Austen's urge to fuck with other people's stories rather than, y'know, actually come up with his own ideas, I don't think that it would have much of a negative retroactive impact of what Grant wrote in his story.
 
 
Mario
20:32 / 14.05.04
Diz:

If you want to discuss the FP line, we can start a thread on the Books board. I'm pretty involved on the Faction Paradox board, so I can try to answer any questions.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
21:54 / 15.05.04
I had a dream where Xorn said to me "The thing about a mask, is that anyone can wear it."

Sorry, perhaps that whole story belongs in the Temple. But on a more grounded note, it's interesting how much exposure post-mortem Xorn is getting. Beak's wearing the Xorn mask in Exiles, Austen may be bringing him back in X-Men... Hell, I wonder if he'll show up alongside Magneto in Excalibur.
 
 
The Falcon
22:35 / 15.05.04
"We Gods are masks. Who wears us? Find it out!"

From 'Sheman', Invisibles vol.1, if I remember right.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
17:35 / 17.05.04
There's some bits about Xorn and Chuck Austen over in Lying in the Gutters this week.

According to rumor, bringing "Xorn" back (and some of the other boneheaded bits from austen's run) was editorally mandated.
 
 
Triplets
17:38 / 17.05.04
Stop saying "Xorn" in quotes! He's a real boy!
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
20:06 / 17.05.04
Here's the thing from Gutters:

Chuck Austen's run on "Uncanny X-Men," "Exiles," now on "New X-Men" and especially on "Avengers," has been derided by many. Most amusingly here, here and, oh look, now his recent "Avengers" piece has been pulled apart in a similar manner. However, Austen has been seen as a safe pair of hands, and while critically he hasn't matched up to his previous work on "Metropolis," he's kept franchises going, hasn't missed a deadline and has maintained sales on titles, if not setting them on fire.

But is it fair to blame Austen for all that may be lacking with his work?

On Joe Quesada's message boards, user el123chico wrote, "I spoke with Austen at the Dynamic Forces Fan Fest and he definitely did not seem happy with a lot of the editorial decisions that forced some of the storylines he wrote. Remember, Morrison and Claremont were basically given free range to do whatever they liked, while Austen was basically grounded and limited in what he could do.

"And honestly, could anyone tie up Morrison's run? I don't even think editorial knew what he was doing."

This thread has also linked to some earlier posts on the Nightcrawler forum by the user known as Bamfette. Bamfette is a confident of Chuck Austen, though she often talks freely on the forum.

So, regarding the bizarre reappearance of Xorn, back in March she wrote, "no, the return is a whole 'nother can of worms, and another decision by editors in an attempt to 'save' um... well, you'll see. it's big and will make people a whole lot more mad than the stuff with Gambit. and i don't know why the solicits say 'return' it's not a return of an existing character, actually. just a copycat character.

"really, the books are being almost written by editors again..."

As to Chuck's motivation when writing X-comics, "...before anyone says 'well if he hates it so much why doesn't he refuse?' it's just not that simple.... if he did they'd refuse to print it, they could change it to fit their needs anyway without asking him, could fire him for being uncooperative, whatever. he doesn't have absolute control over the book, never did. that's the sacrafice you make when working with company owned characters. and i think when they started telling him what to write starting with Angels (yes, the whole Romeo and Juliet thing and Josh having the same powers as Warren was the editors idea, not Chuck's.) he thouht 'ok, i'll do this one for them.... then it will be back to my own stories' and he was actually pretty happy with how Angels turned out in the end, even tho he wasn't keen on the idea at first. but then every one since then has been the editors. for the transitionary issues, that is perfectly understandable. they are being written as an introduction tothe relaunch so you know, it's to be expected. but he even had an argument with them there, and got a compromise. atleast this way he has a bit of control over the details ot make it work as best he can.... the 'return' character he says he's found an explanation that works, (it reeeeeeealy doesn't make any sense on the surface. if he says he found a solution that makes sense, hes sure more clever than i am, 'cus i can't make any sense of it.) but i don't know what it is.…"

There was a spate, during the 90's, when ex-X-book editor, then Editor In Chief of Marvel, was accused of basically writing the X-books, and it was his demands, reflecting licensing's wishes that led to Claremont's decision to leave, then crossover after crossover, with the toyline leading the direction of the book more than the writers or artists.

And even more recently, Bill Jemas was seen as a heavy hand on certain titles he felt he had an interest in. But even then, that was with a creative eye, rather than one solely influenced by the market.

Now, it seems much of the decisions from above come down to beliefs about avoiding any possibility of bad publicity, keeping the licenses sweet for the movies and upping sales in the short term, at the expense of the quality of the work where necessary. And when even Chuck Austen is complaining about editorial interference, well... die cut covers are next, you know this.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
22:18 / 19.05.04
And low and behold. Xorn does in fact return. Or show up for the first time, rather.
 
 
spacemonkey
02:20 / 20.05.04
Wait 'til you see who returns in Excaliber! It's a post-Morrison reunion!
 
 
spake
02:20 / 20.05.04
I see Xorn in the same light i would view Eric the Red. He's a fluidic character that anyone of the X-men or X-Villains can utilise to disguise ulterior motives / strategies they might have. Eric the red was used both by Cyclops as a disguise and by Magneto as last seen in the whole Trial of Gambit fiasco. Xorn is the ultimate fiction-suit.

I say let Austen f*ck with it all anyway, the x-universe ended for me the moment Jean Grey re-joined the Phoenix corp.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
02:49 / 20.05.04
I really didn't want to leave the books when Grant left, but man... I can't see how this and the Magneto ressurection are not going to suck.

And Erik the Red was a Shi'ar too!
 
 
spake
03:36 / 20.05.04
Yeah. Eric the Red was fucking cool.
 
 
wicker woman
04:42 / 21.05.04
Magneto resurrection? Jesus Christ... I just puked internally. Beef pot pies do not taste good the second time 'round. Magneto was not Sublime. How the hell do you come back from being decapitated? Anyone who's brave enough to read other x-stuff care to fill me in on exactly how this was carried out?
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
05:08 / 21.05.04
Next month's Excalibur will have the details most likely (since Mags is on the cover). Mags comes back on the last page of this month's (first) issue of Excalibur and has apparently been working with Xavier in secret.

Aparently the "Magneto funeral" following Morrison's run was just a ruse to smuggle weapons and equipment into Genosha.

Meanwhile over in X-Men, the team finds a giant black hole/electromagnetic disturbence in China and when things wind down they find a chained, emaciated and ragged man in Xorn's mask.

Meanwhile, over in Exiles, Beak has taken to wearing the Xorn mask as a helmet.

According to rumor there was an editoraly (and Claremont?) mandated push to "save Magneto" so he'd be all pseudo-noble and back to normal in time for pre X3 stuff.

I'm guessing that in the end, Xorneto will be revealed to have been neither Xorn or Magneto but Sublime or someone else.

Man, what strikes me as weird is the seeming hate Claremont has for Morrison's run (Everyone treats Scott like a pigfucker for hooking up with Emma, Xorn and Mags are retconned not 6 months later...) given that Morrison's run was largely a love letter to Claremont's clasic X-Men.
 
 
wicker woman
07:46 / 21.05.04
given that Morrison's run was largely a love letter to Claremont's clasic X-Men.

You really think so? I'd say Morrison's run was the antithesis of a lot of stuff Claremont did with the X-Men.

*sigh* Reading the 2 post-Morrison New X-Men, I was kind of like "Yeah, this is... ok, I guess." Not really anything 'New' about it anymore, and it seemed to be riding the coattails of Morrison's extremely impressive exit.

The newest issue? I actually kind of liked it; the students didn't up and vanish, there was a lighthearted edge to it... up until the splash page in Scott's office, and looking around at the crowd in there. Somehow, I was denying the notion that they were putting the characters back in spandex until I actually saw it. I always hated Wolverine's costume, and it was one of a number of secondary reasons I could never get into the character.

(sarcasm)Boy, I don't know about you, but I can't wait until they retcon those secondary mutations!(/sarcasm)
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
08:14 / 21.05.04
Editorial mandate or not all this "immediate retcon" fever that's gripped the X-books has really soured my opinion of Marvel(after becoming interested again for the first time in six years).
I hate being one of those people that have ended their interest now GM's left but there really is no other option.
Perhaps in my blind optimism I was hoping things would progress and stay forward thinking once Marvel had GM do his "thing" with the characters. He was brought in to wreck havok and he really did.
Now almost everything is being undone.
The mass b-list death toll after the destruction of Genosha isn't actually such a big deal as "lots of mutants survived that all encompassing holocaust" (um... how?), in fact Genosha is being rebuilt so that it can all start again, Magneto is back before his decapitated head even hit the floor, Xorn (a fake ID) returns as an independent character (which I don't mind as much as I should...) and things don't look good for the continuation of the Scott/Emma relationship. ALL the X-men are against it despite watching Scott and Jean's marriage disintegrate in front of their eyes.
Jean will be back undoubtedly within the next six months, if it even takes that long, I expect Beast will have a hair cut and discover his secondary mutation was just a Tony and Guy student hairstyle all along.
After all the good (ideas) that came out of Grant's run doesn't anyone else look back and think "what was the point?"
I've really got to stop caring but dammit Morrison made me like these characters again and its a hard habit to kick.

Is there a 12 step plan out there to wen yourself off of the X-men?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:39 / 21.05.04
While I agree about a lot of the latest developments, I also think this:

Everyone treats Scott like a pigfucker for hooking up with Emma

...Is entirely in character for most of the X-Men. Think about it for more than the five seconds it takes to go "but Emma Frost is hot, and it was Grant's idea!" One of your most admired friends is dead, and no season is she in the ground, her husband is snogging a former villain over her grave. Oh, and it turns out he was engaged in psychic adultery for a while before that. And he's put his new girlfriend, who even if she's no longer evil is sneering and rude to most of you, in joint charge of the school.

Nope, can't see how that would piss anybody off.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:43 / 21.05.04
I mean Christ, Henry even warned Emma "Don't mess with Scott and Jean's marriage" before the event! Does anyone really think that if Morrison had kept on writing NXM after the end of 'Here Comes Tomorrow', he would have had the rest of the cast support Scott's actions? "Oh actually we know Jean is okay and happy in magical Phoenixland outside time, and no-one ever really dies, and thinking about it monogamy is a daft idea, in fact it's probably what Jean would have wanted, go for it!"
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
09:00 / 21.05.04
Maybe so, but it's predictable and boring as hell. I don't want to read boring fucking comics!
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
09:16 / 21.05.04
Jean's dead, can't Scott be happy for a change?
 
 
The Falcon
13:40 / 21.05.04
Tho' they did save the universe by falling in love. But no-one knows, probably.

"lots of mutants survived that all encompassing holocaust"

I hope this is not a real quote.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
14:41 / 21.05.04
It's not, sorry... inverted comma's for sarcastic effect only.
But its pretty clear from Excalibur that lots of people, human and mutant have survived in Genosha.

Despite the population count falling to zero so beautifully.

Ho hum.
 
 
diz
15:21 / 21.05.04
I mean Christ, Henry even warned Emma "Don't mess with Scott and Jean's marriage" before the event! Does anyone really think that if Morrison had kept on writing NXM after the end of 'Here Comes Tomorrow', he would have had the rest of the cast support Scott's actions? "Oh actually we know Jean is okay and happy in magical Phoenixland outside time, and no-one ever really dies, and thinking about it monogamy is a daft idea, in fact it's probably what Jean would have wanted, go for it!"

more or less, yeah. Beast warned Emma not to get involved with Scott, but he was pretty considerate and classy about the way that he handled his feelings on the issue, and he and Emma became quite close. Logan was similarly kind to both Emma and Scott and was even nice about Scott when he was talking to Jean on the asteroid. i always got the impression that, even though they might not have approved, they were totally sympathetic and supportive to everyone involved, like mature adults. now all of a sudden they're acting like a bunch of raging, juvenile assholes, making nasty comments about something that's not really any of their business and basically doing a 180 from GM's portrayal of them.

all of this is striking me as really out-of-character and basically a really tacky, immature, and boring use of the characters as soapboxes to convey CC's and Austen's personal feelings on the issue.
 
 
Triplets
15:40 / 21.05.04
Oh well.

We'll always have Cyclops and Xorn speeding around in sports cars tackling uppity mutants with concrete justice.

MUTANT VICE
COMING SOON
 
 
Simplist
15:42 / 21.05.04
Agreed on all counts. Still, there is hope for Whedon's run, despite the retarded costumes...
 
  

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