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Underground > Switchboard >

ID cards in the UK

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06:39 / 26.04.04

Or are all police going to get some hi-tech scanner which will allow an on-the-street cross-reference of someone's iris code with their card?

So it seems. Before I read this, I underestimated the reach of the scheme, but it seems the technology means that the idea of card carrying is kind of obselete:

"Mr Blunkett added: "In circumstances where it was crucial to have a full identity check and there was not an easy way to get the card the police would actually be able to take the biometric of the individual ... even if the person did not carry the card, they would be able to check the biometric automatically with the equipment."

full article

That's even more freaky than I thought at first. But, according to the article, the cards WON'T be used to gain access to services. Which makes me think: well, what's the point then? It's SOLEY about tagging the populace, and criminalising the concept of privacy.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

16:45 / 26.04.04

Blunkett's daily scary headline: £2500 fine if you don't get a card.

I must admit I'm not keeping up with the technology, but I'm not sure if the technology exists to do what Blunkett wants of it, I think it's more likely he has these flights of fantasy and the IT companies don't want to tell him 'no' in case they loose the business. I just wish he'd ask for something fun like flying cars or jetpacks.

17:06 / 26.04.04

I'd rather pay the fine. Jeez. What a wanker.

21:24 / 29.04.04

Aww, that link makes me laugh. In a sick twisted I wanna kill myself way of course.

If Blunkett(was he raised on mein kampf?) thinks all this is going to work, well, he has problems. Forget 2.5 grand, I'm not paying a fine to have an Identity, and an even bigger fine to not have a card that says I have one. I'd sooner give up the NHS and become a terrorist then do that.

21:29 / 29.04.04

specofdust: it's really interesting, though, isn't it, how it only takes a few steps to come to that conclusion? How illusory our civilised/free world is?

That's exactly what I thought about it when the ID card issue came up first time around. I would just not play the game.

But it's so fucking difficult. Like, you're really fucking ill, you need to see a doctor, and suddenly you dont have a choice.

Or even if you want to just leave the country, you know?

And probably a hundred other things.

Is it too apocolyptical to imagine that we're going to end up in a world where if you're 'unscanned', you're a de facto terrorist?

21:36 / 29.04.04

I'm not talking about just being unscanned, and therefore being classed as a terrorist, I'm talking about hooking up with some other Govt. haters and trying to get rid of people like Blair and Blunkett using force, preferably lethal.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

09:56 / 30.04.04

Yes well, that's worked really well for Osama Bin Laden didn't it? And it worked extremely well for the Iraqis that rose in the early nineties to overthrow Saddam.

On a different note, here's a man who might want an ID Card.

20:03 / 30.04.04

Well now our lady, maybe your correct. But if so, and violence really isn't the answer, what is? The general public obviously either don't care or don't have enough power, so what is to be done? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

13:10 / 01.05.04

Intransigence.

There's no fuckin' way this'll happen. They wheel it out every 5-10 years; last time was for football hoolies.

10:12 / 02.05.04

Specofdust -- What is to be done? One option is, every time someone says, "they'll never do it" or "the technology doesn't exist," gently say that they are doing it and, as for the technology, if Amazon can work out what you might also purchase and google can search millions of web pages in less than a second ...

13:35 / 02.05.04

A de facto ID card has been in force in the U.K. for some time. In Northern Ireland the police could demand photo ID and I was a little surprised when a couple of friends from Belfast showed me their Photo ID Drivers License back in 1993.

Via Charter88:

In Northern Ireland the police and army have the power to demand proof of ID at any time and the NI licence is 'to all intents and purposes a Northern Ireland ID card

So in a sense, this is not a new thing or untested. And it follows a tried and trusted method of working policy in the provinces, like the poll tax in Scotland before the implementation down south. Of course, it makes perfect sense if you're afraid of your population. And with the current levels of fear I'm not surprised it's popular on the mainland.

I didn't realise how important this was until I had to register with the French government last year, for a kind of residence permit. They've put an end to that now, but if I'm stopped by the police and I don't have my passport, technically, I could be locked up for a violation or fined. I hate it.

[wishful thinking] That idea to fine people -- over the Brit ID -- is patently ridiculous, they're almost asking for a protest based upon that. If you're looking for a method to say 'bollocks to the ID card' then let's see the government challenged by multitude of folks when they're told to pay a fine. Some resourceful person would take the case, I'm sure.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

17:04 / 02.05.04

specofdust- Any violent attempt to do away with Blair and/or Blunkett will injure or kill innocent people. Then there's the question of whether you have the moral right to kill someone, but that's a Headshop thread...

17:26 / 03.05.04

Our Lady Has Left the Building

06:04 / 21.05.04

A new ID Card poll suggests public approval of the card lower and the willingness of the public to refuse to accept ID Cards higher than previously thought.

Tryphena Absent

15:07 / 21.05.04

The ease with which you can assume a new identity in the UK is just as frightening to me as the perceived invasion of your civil liberties is to you.

And if I want to assume a new identity, why shouldn't I? Seriously, I might want to become a totally different person and I don't see the problem with that as long as I don't abuse it.

The truth is that institutionalised racism in this country is hanging around and that's obvious. I don't trust the police not to misuse this information because they are going to have access to it and you're mad if you think that this won't make it easier for them to target minority groups. That is my major complaint. On top of that I don't want my prescence at demonstrations charted, I don't want my medical records shown at the touch of a button to anyone who has access to the system, I don't want my sexuality to be registered in any way, shape or form. As far as I can see that's what this system wants to do and I do view it as an intrusion of my privacy and I will not be getting an ID card if I can avoid it.

13:46 / 14.03.06

ID cards are now compulsory

Our Lady Has Left the Building

13:50 / 14.03.06

I'm bumping this up, basically we've got five or six small threads on this which I thought might be worth consolidating in the biggest thread.

So, there's also Compulsory ID Cards and Talk of identity cards from September 2001, Here it comes...ID cards for everyone! from November 2001, Taking a STAND against ID cards from January 2003, ID cards, and you have to pay for them and
ID Cards in the wake of 7/7, started July 2005.

13:52 / 14.03.06

Bad law.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

13:52 / 14.03.06

And there was me thinking that would give me a few more years until I renew my passport- but the bastard thing's been impounded by the Home Office (remind me to tell you the story one day... it's quite amusing but horribly off-topic).

One more card to keep losing, I guess. Not really too happy about this.

14:33 / 14.03.06

Realistically, there's nothing to be donw noe is there? It's all well and good boycotting the ID cards, but if you ever want to go abroad you'll have to go through all this rigmarole (and pay for it) - fucking gutted.

I feel dirty.

19:33 / 14.03.06

The thing goverment really want from ID cards is the National Database that will have to be created. This is where the power and potential abuses will come from.

Police Database Abuses

I found an article about the 1987 Australian campaign against a national ID card. It rasied some intersting questions.

privacyinternational

What are the Practical and administrative problems that will arise from lost, stolen or damaged cards (estimated at up to several hundred thousand per year)

Will the system create enough savings to justify its construction? If the system fails, can it be disassembled?

To what extent will the system entrench fraud and criminality? What new opportunities for criminality will the system create?

Pricacy International also has an interesting FAQ on UK ID cards

21:17 / 14.03.06

OK, here's a question that I feel only the lith could conceivably care enough about to give a good answer on. I, for various reasons, hate the idea of ID cards.
This isn't the problem. What I want to know is: is there likely to be be a case for refusing to call them "ID cards" rather than "identity cards"? To me ID sounds kind of sexy and techy and desirable, which is possibly why discussions about them have always been couched in such terms by the guvmin.
Is it likely that using the word "identity" instead of "ID" is likely to make people feel more uneasy about having to accept them.? And should campaigns against them be using the word identity instead of the accepted discourse of ID (which has a double level of remove from being "this card IS what you are" because it a) is an abbreviation and b) isn't strictly an abbreviation for identity, anyway) to make it feel safer.

Better yet, we could go the whole hog and call them "id" cards because they will help others stop you exercising such a faculty.

Does this make ANY sense or do I spend too long splitting hairs at work?

22:22 / 14.03.06

Sounds logical to me. The most frequent use of the word 'identity' in the news over the last couple of years has probably been when the story has been about identity theft. And stories about identity theft seem to leak into stories about internet banking and the like. Banking = cards. Identity + cards = a whole world of negative connotations.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

09:50 / 15.03.06

Although when people use "identity", it can be a bit weird. I remember once, when I was about 18, going into an off-license on monstrous quantities of acid and being asked if I had any identity. My brain melted.

12:29 / 15.03.06

I look forward to the usual suspects trying to get their snouts in the trough for the inevitable PPP/PFI deal... consultants will make a packet, some firm which has already cocked up a dozen government contracts will get the job, it will be plagued by endless problems and come in several years late, millions over budget and probably not working very well.

14:40 / 15.03.06

Well, it can't work, can it? Like JtB said in one of the other threads on this subject, for ID cards to serve any purpose - even in principle - they have to be compulsory, otherwise there's no point. So what happens with those people who don't apply for a passport?

15:29 / 15.03.06

I was thinking of the IT systems which will need to be created, but yes, there is that also...

17:03 / 16.03.06

"well over 40 million people, will automatically pick up the card, because they will need it to show that they are able and have permission to drive a car or are free to travel abroad"

we have to have permission to travel?

18:41 / 16.03.06

Well it comes down to something when we rely on the Lords to fight this. They've just sent it back to the commons for the third time, heh hope the bastards have to use the Parliment Act (for only the 8th time since 1911)

Here's a list of Peers opposing the ID card [via no2id.net] if you fancy writing in and cheering them on

.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

09:28 / 18.03.06

ID Cards may have PIN numbers rather than biometrics. So, if biometrics don't work, a four digit number is going to protect us from the supposed terrorist threat? Great, this means my Mum would never be able to prove she isn't Osama Bin Ladin.

09:47 / 20.03.06

Just further goes to show that the whole thing has absolutely nothing to do with terrorism or anything except a large central government database which will monitor increasing amounts of ordinary daily activity...

11:51 / 22.03.06

Does anyone know when the latest date would be to apply for a non-ID card passport? I am going to reapply, but I want to get the most out of my 10 years.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

04:20 / 30.03.06

The Lords decide to stop fighting ID Cards. It would seem they never opposed us having ID Cards, just their compulsory nature, and have now for some reason accepted a compromise that has them being compulsory after the next general election. Useless idiots.

05:56 / 30.03.06

Not totally useless, even if they gave up as a whole, enough of them put up a fight to piss Tony off five times.

12:07 / 31.03.06

Right so if Labour get in next election (i'd prefer the Lib Dems or a hung parliament but this is a worst case senario) how do we go about making this as difficult to implement as possible. I'm hanging onto the Poll tax as an example of how a bad law was fought against and eventually repealed after being too costly, in many ways, for the government.

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