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Temporal Lobe Microseizure and the Involuntary Conjuration of Spirits

 
  

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sine
10:00 / 30.03.04
For many years, I worked on projects which had as their goal the artificial stimulation of altered states of consciousness through directed, patterned magnetic fields. I had a great deal of success, experimentally if not financially. My work involved heavy correspondence with my colleagues doing similar experiments, most especially Micheal Persinger at Laurentian Neuroscience, whose highly publicised work is likely familiar to people here.

At the time, Micheal and I differed on certain fundamentals behind our work, especially in the area of religious and mystical experiences. He believed that the 'on cue' production of such experiences and their relation to brain structure was an excellent footing to disprove the existence of supernatural forces i.e. angels, aliens, Elvis, God.

I however did, and do, believe that these experiences may have served as a controllable method of contacting entities that have an independent existence.

The question I periodically take up with myself: what application might this have to magick that isn't already served by chemical entheogens?
 
 
_Boboss
10:42 / 30.03.04
how long do the effects linger? part of a piece of a point of majikqc might be the voluntary entry into states that to most are only available through drugs. problem with dropping trips to enact your magic is you've got the next eight hours of being fucked to wonder/wander around with. if you can flick the switch on your emf headband to 'off' and get back to reality almost instantly, i'd've thought the benefits would be many.
 
 
sine
20:15 / 30.03.04
Effects end more or less instantly when the signal stops. This was one of the most important reasons behind my research...I hate acid trips where you have to knock yourself out.

There are some after effects: high incidence of lucid dreaming is foremost among them. Both myself and Micheal also noted a higher than average number of 'coincidence reports', something he chalked up to 'deep integrations' in the temporal lobes screwing with people's ability to draw 'meaningful' correlations and I was inclined to view, at least in cases where the correlations were objective and highly improbable, as a higher rate of synchronicity.

On the whole however, when the switch gets flipped, the visions go out.
 
 
grant
21:38 / 30.03.04
I want to know a lot more about your hardware.
 
 
LVX23
21:51 / 30.03.04
I once read somewhere that there was evidence suggesting that St. Paul's Vision on the Road to Damascus may have been a temporal lobe seizure. But your question still stands: is it neurochemistry tricking the self into believing it has encountered seemingly external entities, or is altered neurochemistry the substrate for tapping in to something real and Other?

I had a thought recently that smoking DMT, for example, might set off a specific resonance frequency in the user which acts as a signal beacon for higher dimensional entites. Always a moment away, "they" tune in when they detect the buzz. Similarly, neuromagnetic/neurochemical shifts might open up awareness to such things. If, as Descartes suggested, that the pineal gland is the "reducing valve of the Soul", perhaps one role of altered states is to open up perception to the greater subtleties of existence...
 
 
sine
23:23 / 30.03.04
I had a thought recently that smoking DMT, for example, might set off a specific resonance frequency in the user which acts as a signal beacon for higher dimensional entites. Always a moment away, "they" tune in when they detect the buzz.

Yeah, I've been thinking along similar lines, and for drugs other than DMT: hence my "DMT vs Ibogaine" thread.

I want to know a lot more about your hardware.

I have extensive files, Grant, but many of them, along with my old company website, have had the kybosh laid on 'em by my former business partner and our investor interests. I've been thinking of going 'open source' on the designs for several years now, as soon as I know I'm not going to be arrested for doing it. However, I digress...I'm still more than a little bitter at how I got screwed, but this isn't the place to vent that. I'll say what I think I can, and try to field any questions people have.

In short, the technology (technical name "EMITE", 'electromagnetic induction of temporal lobe experience'; proposal name "Braindance"; insider name "I Can't Believe Its Not Buddha"; and mocking name "the Brain Tickler") uses a focused series of ultra-low-frequency, low intensity magnetic fields directed to intersect in various parts of the brain, primarily strctures in the deep temporal lobes: the amygdala, the hippocampus, and a little off, the corpus callosum. Which fields get used, in what combination, as well as where they are directed depends on what one is attempting to do.

The complexity of the fields depends as much on hardware as software, and at the high end requires complex interactions between static and fluctuating fields. During my research I built and tested numerous iterations of the device, from a large helmet requiring external computer support to a relatively lightweight headset model with internal power source and program hardware.

The 'programs' of stimulation also became much more sophisticated during the about five years of heavy research; at the tail end when things began to come apart I had strong leads on simulating numerous other states, including chemical ones, as well as the Holy Grail, artificial orgasm. Further, I had made excellent advances into what I termed the 'override' function, a signal complex that would coax the brain into giving priority to the induced signals over pre-existing or sensory data. This would allow a user to flip the switch and have the experience eclipse their surroundings, while not actually eliminating awareness of those surroundings entirely. An excellent example could be drawn from hysterical blindness and its hypnosis equivalent, where a 'blind' subject still unconsciously navigates a room without bumping obstacles.

Perhaps the number one significant finding in my estimation was an outcome of this 'override' research: namely, the ability to produce what I called 'stage 4', and will here call, for lack of better term, 'interactive hallucination'. This state, not dissimilar to a lucid dream itself, appears to produce full-sensory spatial hallucinations in which the subject can direct their own movement and responses to apparently autonomous figures. Further, the state can be affected and crudely directed by introducing 'sense cues', so that small stimuli impact the experience in large qualitative and content related ways. e.g. a subject in stage 4 is exposed to a faint whiff of pine scent and finds themselves walking in a forested glade, or the faint sound of chant to experience a detailed hallucinatory cathedral. When I initially noticed this effect in the data, I thought I had stumbled on the key to 'real' virtual reality, something that might be integrated with nascent computer technologies to leave 'Virtuality' and its ilk in the dust.

Wow...feels surprisingly cathartic to get some of this off my chest. I was sick to death of talking about it for a very long time, and it drove me crazy when acquaintances asked me how the project was going or my ex-business partner pestered me to come back. Anyway, I'm venting again, and I need to be careful about not violating my non-disclosure contracts, but I'm happy to answer any questions that I can. If anyone is interested, I'll tell the fascinating story of how I got into the field to begin with.

For further investigations, I encourage anyone who's piqued to check out the similar work of my colleague Micheal Persinger at Laurentian University. While his work remains less flexible and less technically sophisticated than ours was, he has an enormous body of test chamber evidence and attracts substantial media attention. You should have no problem finding general interest and pop science articles on his work.
 
 
LVX23
23:29 / 30.03.04
Dude....trodes! I want 'em!
 
 
LVX23
23:41 / 30.03.04
This is your brain on God
 
 
charrellz
15:03 / 31.03.04
Sounds like fun...
Two questions though:

1) Just curious why you refer to the near lucid-dream state as 'Stage 4' Is this a reference to other stages of your process or to the sleep stages?

2) What are the possibilities of brain damage? Stimulating the corpus callosum seems dangerous, as this can easily trigger seizures. Is there some method you use for monitoring/preventing this?
 
 
grant
15:05 / 31.03.04
Well, here, I wrote this article on TMS for Erowid about two years ago. There are some great links at the bottom.

Somewhere here on Barbelith there are other topics about this stuff, including one where I decided to see if it was possible to build one of these gizmos in my garage. I never built the big coil, but did get a function generator and downloaded some oscilloscope software to try to get a specific mHz going. (For me, building musical devices is easier and more fun.)

How crazy, exactly, do you think that plan was?
 
 
sine
15:50 / 31.03.04
First off-just wanted to lay compliments on whoever wrote the topic abstract...in retrospect, my main title may have been a bit opaque for a casual viewer. So, thank you [whomever].

1) Just curious why you refer to the near lucid-dream state as 'Stage 4' Is this a reference to other stages of your process or to the sleep stages?

The former...my main process eventually identifed a progression of five categories that could be achieved by a sizable percentage of the test subjects. 'Stage 4' was the, ah, fourth.

2) What are the possibilities of brain damage? Stimulating the corpus callosum seems dangerous, as this can easily trigger seizures. Is there some method you use for monitoring/preventing this?

Yeah, we eeg'ed pretty extensively and did a lot of follow up in the early test chamber situations to monitor potential hemispheric cascades and seizures; we also screened out everyone with epilepsy in their family history. In the final analysis, the stimulation of the corpus callosum turned out to play a far reduced role in our refined process than it did in my original theory...and I shouldn't say too much more. Sorry.

As far as brain damage goes, we've got thousands of test subject histories under our belts, spanning more than a decade...Mike's work up north stretches even farther, I think. I do not think this is anywhere near conclusive as to the long term effects, one of my perennial disagreements with my partner. However, provided one takes this with a grain of scientific salt, the fields involved are miniscule. It isn't intensity that works, its complexity; as far as the brain is concerned, it is much easier to pick the lock than to batter the door down. To give you some sense of the fields strength involved, we once did a calculation and worked out that my stereo headphones were giving me an electromagnetic signal 4 times as large as the unit. Not too many people are concerned about their headphones (though their cellphones...).

Somewhere here on Barbelith there are other topics about this stuff, including one where I decided to see if it was possible to build one of these gizmos in my garage. I never built the big coil, but did get a function generator and downloaded some oscilloscope software to try to get a specific mHz going. (For me, building musical devices is easier and more fun.)How crazy, exactly, do you think that plan was?

Let me put it this way: I built my original, working unit during high school one night in my bedroom. It was entirely constructed out of dead toys. The first framework on which the coil assemblies were mounted was a purple plastic Megatron helmet.

Kids, try this at home.

I'm dancing around non-disclosure here, but: most of the early experiments, as well as many current ones, make the mistake of using fields that are far too strong, far too high frequency, and far too diffuse. The trick is not to batter the brain into submission, but to coax natural activation patterns into supporting the induction signal rather than fighting it. There are superficial similarities between our work and light-and-sound machines, binaural generators...indeed some latter-day models incorporated such devices to produce certain effects. You can do neat stuff with LS machines, and probably, if you can figure out how to build one from scratch, you could build a simple version of my device.
 
 
grant
16:04 / 31.03.04
Um, (trying not to quiver in excitement here) what exactly do you mean by "working model"?

The extreme low-frequency stuff is pretty much public record now -- Daniel Warolnick, I think, is one of the links at the bottom of my article, and he's very encouraging about results with small, portable boxes he was building at home.
 
 
Z. deScathach
19:54 / 31.03.04
Alright, I have a feeling that this will be time consuming. Really, this is just too seductive. Might I ask what you were able to produce with your first "working unit"? I'm thinking that a circuit could be built that could convert the output produced by a synthesizer into the electomagnetic pulses that you are talking about. A keyboard synth could produce the kind of complexity required on multiple channels. Oh....... this is SO cool. Have you found any waveforms that are troublesome? Square? Sine?(Sine in the sense of waveform).
 
 
charrellz
22:41 / 31.03.04
Wow. I've been doing more reading and i'm just amazed. How have i never heard of this until this thread?!

I feel kinda dumb now, but let me see if I have the basics of TMS down:
Basically, an electromagnet is placed near the subjects head and then the polarity is switched at certain frequencies. (is the polarity switching? I think I read that, but I'm not certain) This changes the basic electrical environment of the brain, causing neurons to fire differently.
Is all of that correct, albeit very dumbed down?

Also, if I understand correctly, the pulses are aimed at specific points, correct? If so, do different target regions produce different effects (esp. at 'stage 4') or does the energy spread more. In other words, does stimulating Broca's and Wernicke's area create auditory/linguistic changes/hallucinations while stimulating the occipital lobe causes visual anamolies; or does stimulation anywhere have the same general effect?


Thanks in advance for clearing this up.
 
 
the cat's iao
00:22 / 01.04.04
"At the time, Micheal and I differed on certain fundamentals behind our work, especially in the area of religious and mystical experiences. He believed that the 'on cue' production of such experiences and their relation to brain structure was an excellent footing to disprove the existence of supernatural forces i.e. angels, aliens, Elvis, God.

I however did, and do, believe that these experiences may have served as a controllable method of contacting entities that have an independent existence."

i think the technical aspects might be a fair stretch beyond me, but i wonder if the proof or disproof of independent entities results in a chicken or egg style of debate. i tend towards feeling that as we open ourselves up to more of the world we start to have a sense of self which becomes larger than the confines of the body. i guess i am trying to say that any entity is neither independent of nor dependent upon another for its existence but that there is an interdependence of being. that said, it might be that certain brain states triggered by drugs or devices or whatever assist in creating the opportunity for certain types of interdependent experiences of being or Self-expression. perhaps this is too oblique?

out of curiousity, do you know if any of this might relate to HAARP?
 
 
Jeremy
01:27 / 01.04.04
uses a focused series of ultra-low-frequency, low intensity magnetic fields directed to intersect in various parts of the brain, primarily strctures in the deep temporal lobes: the amygdala, the hippocampus, and a little off, the corpus callosum. Which fields get used, in what combination, as well as where they are directed depends on what one is attempting to do.

Question
Did you do any experiments using the ultra-low-frequency as sort of process initialization/lockin and then add higher frequencies in directly or even modulated onto the ELF? Possibly using resonant frequencies of other natural much higher frequencies?

I do microcontroller development and have a very strong personal interest in this subject - although I admit I am quite ignorant to the current knowledge base.


Also someone mentioned DMT -
I had a thought recently that smoking DMT, for example, might set off a specific resonance frequency in the user which acts as a signal beacon for higher dimensional entites. Always a moment away, "they" tune in when they detect the buzz.

DMT among other places is found in the peneal gland. I've read a lot of nonsense about this part of the brain - but it is sometimes refered to as a vestigial 3rd eye having all the components or structure in some sense as an eye. There is an animal called the (sounds like anyhow)turatora(sp?) which still uses it for night vision or something. - most of that is probably wrong but its the idea that counts.

Question
Has the peneal gland been targeted in testing - I would think that this might be a good place to target for quite a few reasons?
 
 
sine
09:09 / 01.04.04
Okay, I reread my non-disclosures, and having worked out the difference between 'technical' and 'experiential' details, I think I'm fairly certain what I can and cannot say...with that in mind and fingers firmly crossed:

Um, (trying not to quiver in excitement here) what exactly do you mean by "working model"?

My original model (lovingly labeled 'the Decepticon'...though, and this is what always screws me up, it wasn't in fact a helmet of Megatron as I mis-stated above, it was Optimus Prime...'the Autobot' just seemed less cool, not that I imagine anybody cares, but I felt compelled to correct myself. Right. Letting my geek flag fly. Moving right along...) was capable of producing, albeit without great precision in intended effects, all of the five basic stages I identified...it couldn't do too much else, but, if it were hooked to the right computer equipment and software...I see no reason why my five basic stages couldn't be reproduced someone at home.

I'm thinking that a circuit could be built that could convert the output produced by a synthesizer into the electomagnetic pulses that you are talking about.

I see no reason that goal couldn't be simply achieved.

A keyboard synth could produce the kind of complexity required on multiple channels. Oh....... this is SO cool. Have you found any waveforms that are troublesome? Square? Sine?(Sine in the sense of waveform).

I suspect mixing software is better suited to creating complex multi-channel signals than most keyboards, but sure, maybe with high-end models.

The brain does not like square waveforms: it can identify them as foreign and artificial, and they give a nasty headache.

I am fond of sine waves; my fiction suit is sine; 'sine' is the first word of 'sine qua non'. The word 'sine' can be punned with the word 'sign', or loosely, 'symbol'. The brain operates with symbols.

Basically, an electromagnet is placed near the subjects head and then the polarity is switched at certain frequencies. (is the polarity switching? I think I read that, but I'm not certain) This changes the basic electrical environment of the brain, causing neurons to fire differently.
Is all of that correct, albeit very dumbed down?


Yes, though this form of extremely simple device would be difficult to make reliable for complex effects. I believe polarity switching can produce neural fluctuations similar in character to tides: this might be desirable in some circumstances, undesirable in others. Complex states require more complex coil arrangements and more complex signals.

Also, if I understand correctly, the pulses are aimed at specific points, correct? If so, do different target regions produce different effects (esp. at 'stage 4') or does the energy spread more.

Different regions of the brain affect different aspects of cognition; frequency is the language of the brain; activity will spread along pathways of its own accord, though such spread can be channelled or curbed using signals to inhibit or promote neural firing. Such substratum effects tend to gestalt at the conscious level.

In other words, does stimulating Broca's and Wernicke's area create auditory/linguistic changes/hallucinations while stimulating the occipital lobe causes visual anamolies; or does stimulation anywhere have the same general effect?

Such effects on their own tend to produce weak and/or pseudo-hallucination. As an adjunct to other regions, they inform a experiential gestalt. I worked primarily, though not exclusively, with the temporal lobes.

Thanks in advance for clearing this up.

Sorry I can't be more clear.

However, a short description of my Stages:

Stages 1 through 5 showed a pyramidal frequency; virtually every subject reported some variety of Stage 1; each subsequent stage occurred less frequently, up to the relatively rare stage 5. Subjects generally passed through the stages in order during each session, though significant variations were known to occur in longer-term, multiple session subjects. Similarly, such return subjects tended to be more likely to experience the 'higher' stages, leading me to posit a form of neural reverse-tolerance might be at work. The possibility of 'deep integrations' between and within existing brain tissues acting as feedback-response receptor structures (or proto-structures) was also floated, but never proven.

i tend towards feeling that as we open ourselves up to more of the world we start to have a sense of self which becomes larger than the confines of the body.

Stage 1, the most common early effect of the device, produces large fluctuations and alterations in the spatio-temporal and kinetic sensations: one frequently reported effect, generally paired with a sensation of fast motion, involves alterations in the subject's perception of the properties of their personal space, often described with adjectives such as 'expansive', 'explosive' 'inflating' 'ballooning' and so on. Other less common reports included: 'shrinking'; altered sense of body shape and spatial relationships between limbs, head, torso, etc; sense of 'flight'; mild vertigo.

Stage 2 was demarcated by the report of visual and auditory effects, generally of a simple nature. 'Drums', 'bells', 'clanking', 'chiming', 'whispers' and other such simple, content free sounds dominated the aural hallucination, while phospene-like 'polygons', 'blobs', 'patterns', 'wheels', and 'tiles', sometimes in black and white, but often in full or even exaggerated colour, were characteristic visual reports.

Stage 3 was demarcated by the report of complex hallucinations: scenes, figures, and landscapes with fantastic features were common reports. Intelligible conversations, complicated music and singing, animal sounds, and other complex aural phenomena tended to replace simpler 'bells and whistles' as complex visual experiences replaced geometrical figments. Most such experiences were technically pseudo-hallucinatory, and while often extremely vivid, occured firmly 'inside' the subject. Stage 3 experiences seldom contained olfactory or tactile/thermal components, though occasional reports of 'metallic tastes' or 'unusual flavours' did crop up.

Stage 4 was demarcated by a theoretical rather than report- based line, and can actually be considered as two separate phenomena (if you prefer, stages 4a and 4b). The first (4a) was the 'interactive hallucination' mentioned above, where the vivid qualities of the Stage 3 report became immersive and responsive. The second (4b) was the projection of hallucinatory figures into the test subject's real environment, often mistaking 'projected' persons for 'real' ones. Both (4a and 4b) showed considerably higher incidence of reports containing tactile and olfactory as well as thermal and kinetic elements, as well as reports of 'emotional' perception and sexual content. The reason these two generally mutually exclusive experiences were classed together as a single Stage can be traced to my theory that both represented an integration/dissolution of the objective/subjective divide...that is: Stage 4a projected the 'conscious self' into the 'subjective experience', whereas Stage 4b projected the 'unconscious self' into the 'objective experience'. While no serious psychological study was done to verify this idea, I remain supportive of this interpretation of my data, and have thus reflected it in my Stage categories.

Stage 5 was extremely rare, reported by a very small percentage of test subjects. Reports tended to be characterized by words such as 'absorbed', 'illuminated', 'transcended', and 'loved'. Sense of self, as well as the senses of time and space were generally suspended. Subjects who reported Stage 5 effects were often unable afterward to make accurate guesses about the elasped length of their sessions. This complex of reported phenomena was, and is, considered to correlate well with some traditional mystical reports.

Though comparatively infrequent, 'negative' experiences were nevertheless recorded at all five Stages. Shorthand for these negative experiences had them expressed as Stages -1 through -5, though they are not considered technically distinct.

Stage -1 generally reported unpleasant shifts in body shape or image, clastro-and-agoraphobic responses, as well as vertigo associated nausea.

Stage -2 was often described with adjectives such as 'harsh', 'frenetic', 'swarming' and 'dissonant'.

Stage -3 carried the trends of Stage -2, but added adjectives such as 'ugly', 'angry', 'evil', 'demonic' and 'disturbing'.

Stage -4 often prompted the subject to request premature termination of the session. Associated reports included 'prisons', 'hells', 'monsters', and 'demons'; severe -4b experiences often reported projected entities making direct threats, and infrequently contained 'pseudo-tactile' elements, often of an aggressive sexual nature.

Stage -5, due to the unpleasantness and rarity of -4, was barely reported. Reports included terms such as 'darkness', 'black winds', 'hatred', and 'despair.' Stage -5 seemed to show the same pronounced distortions of the time and space sense as its more pleasant counterpart, but had infrequent suspensions of the subjects' 'sense of self'.

Those are my Five Stages in a nutshell.

i guess i am trying to say that any entity is neither independent of nor dependent upon another for its existence but that there is an interdependence of being. that said, it might be that certain brain states triggered by drugs or devices or whatever assist in creating the opportunity for certain types of interdependent experiences of being or Self-expression. perhaps this is too oblique?

No, not at all...indeed, I believe such entities to exist in a state of 'psychoparallelism'; essentially similar to the Jungian 'psychoid' state. As such, I believe them to exist simultaneously as personal mental states, deep unconscious impulses, collective unconscious archetypes, and correlated patterns in the physical world.

out of curiousity, do you know if any of this might relate to HAARP?



I remember when I first heard about HAARP and its Soviet antecedent, 'the Woodpecker Signal'. My partners (business and romantic) got to hear me rant for weeks that:

a) US.gov didn't generally make a habit of revealing the true nature and potential of their bleeding-edge military projects. Hence, if US.gov claimed HAARP was a goddamn weather control machine, one had to wonder what it really was, or at least, what else it could do.

b) A transmitter array of that power level could broadcast mind-affecting ELF patterns across, if not the entire globe, substantial portions thereof.

Did you do any experiments using the ultra-low-frequency as sort of process initialization/lockin and then add higher frequencies in directly or even modulated onto the ELF? Possibly using resonant frequencies of other natural much higher frequencies?

Not sure what you mean: "process initialization/lockin".

The brain has a much higher range of frequency than is typically believed, though still being firmly ELF. For example, though most basic neurology material lists everything above, say 15 hz as 'beta', structures in the brain have been shown to respond to and produce frequencies higher than 300 hz. It is also a surprsingly little known fact that stronger external stimuli do not register in the brain as stronger signals, but rather, higher frequencies. This means that when a loud noise diverts my attention away from other stimuli and surroundings it obtains that priority through higher frequency neural signals.

Both resonance frequencies and modulations have been shown to have definite effects in the brain.

I do microcontroller development and have a very strong personal interest in this subject - although I admit I am quite ignorant to the current knowledge base.

Sorry I can't say more. Once upon a time I used to think of myself as being like the character Seth Brundle from Cronenberg's The Fly...not in the vomiting-on-donuts sense, but in the assembling-other-people's-disconnected-research-with-an-excellent-technical-intuition-and-some-luck sense. Like I said, before any contracts were even imagined, I built one out of dead toys. Prolly anyone who was persistent enough could come to similar results.

Has the peneal gland been targeted in testing - I would think that this might be a good place to target for quite a few reasons?

Yes, the pineal gland was part of my early experiments. One of the primary goals I had in creating the original ('Decepticon') unit was the elevation of activity in the pineal gland, in an attempt to self-regulate my rather serious seasonal affective disorder. Subsequent related research advanced pineal activation techniques, but de-emphasized such direct stimulation of that structure.

I must say, I'm surprised and rather pleased at the level of response to this subject thread. I wasn't certain if, as a relative newbie, anyone would be interested in this at all.

Does this mean I get to stay?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:54 / 01.04.04
I wasn't certain if, as a relative newbie, anyone would be interested in this at all.

Heh! You've just poked Barbelith in one of its most sensitive erogenous zones.

I for one an fascinated. Some of the experiences you describe (esp. Stage 4) are familiar to me, both from trance-work and--perhaps more pertinantly--from the aura stage of my epilepsy.
 
 
sine
12:47 / 01.04.04
Heh! You've just poked Barbelith in one of its most sensitive erogenous zones.

I for one an fascinated. Some of the experiences you describe (esp. Stage 4) are familiar to me, both from trance-work and--perhaps more pertinantly--from the aura stage of my epilepsy.


Ho, ho, M. Carnival...surely by now you realize that if I wanted to stimulate Barbelith's erogenous zones, I have far less invasive means at my command than crude 'pokings'.

As for the 'auras' of pre-seizure, I'm quite familiar, my father being an epileptic; I'd be interested to hear your experiences during trance work.

Stage 4 remains the most fascinating for me as well...while Stage 5 might superficially seem more 'desirable', from the perspective of the test subject anyway, the partial dissolve of the objective/subjective divide I believe occurs in Stage 4 holds the lion's share of my current thought in the field.

And that might be an excellent place to hijack this thread back to its original question (though I'm yet more than happy to continue with other questions or discussions as well): given the technology in its present state, what if any applications might it have for 'workers that aren't already adequately filled by existing tools and techniques?
 
 
macrophage
12:52 / 01.04.04
Immense and highly intense! I've seen stuff by Robert Becker - are you familiar with his stuff? I've used simple dream machines to simple effects and I've used binaural beats and differing tapes and CD Roms utilising various different frequencies. I am quite in awe of the Temp. Lobe Epilepsy theory in relation to non-ordinary states of conciousness. Even stuff like caverns, cathedrals, etc.... can produce odd effects with sounds, music, chanting, etc... I find certain vibrations of mantrums vocally maybe can bump start neuron firings to the lobes.
 
 
charrellz
14:29 / 01.04.04
As regards the original intent of this thread, I can see several uses for this technology in the occult world. For chaos magick, it could be used to create a sort of 'instant gnosis' if used correctly and in the right mind set. Also, I already started some rough experimentation with an incomplete device(curiosity often kills expensive electronics along with cats) and noticed faint changes in my vision which reminded me of the 'vibration' stage of astral projection.

I think with fine tuning, this process could definitly be very useful with all sorts of occult studies.

Also, others were discussing whether the conjuration idea is purely a result of hallucinations, or if it is heightened awareness. I think that the presence of [insert whatever term you like for strange magick-like happenings] causes the brain to react in a certain way, just as a similar situation in the brain can create or give access to this other world. Sort of a conditioned response to associate certain brain activity with occult phenomenon and vice versa.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
15:15 / 01.04.04
It's not just the occult world that could benefit from this technology. If you were to successfully remove the 'dark-side' type effects you could potentially have the most significant piece of interactive entertainment hardware since the pinball machine (you could rename it a 'brainstation' and pitch it to Sony). Just as the early computer programmers were also interested in psychadelics (see Douglas Rushkoff's 'Cyberia') an advanced version of these machines would at first be used by occultists before spreading into the mainstream.
In the Wired article it says that roughly 3500 years ago all humans were functionally schizophrenic, we then learnt to differentiate between hallucination and reality and could then begin the second stage of our evolution as a species; creating language, technology, order etc. A technology like this could usher in a third stage, a synthesis between pre-civilisation humanity and modern man via controlled hallucinations.

Like they say, 'May you live in interesting times'
 
 
the cat's iao
01:42 / 02.04.04
Like they say, 'May you live in interesting times'

yes, but…that’s spoken as a curse iirc!



it is interesting that the words used to describe the various stages are associated with “dark” imagery and experience. this leads me to wonder if, as has been suggested, that these are states that perhaps we are aspiring towards via growth as a species. and you can take that with a grain of “collective consciousness”. what i mean is i wonder if the more sinister aspects would dissolve or dissipate if, for want of a better way to say it, more people were more “spiritually” inclined or if we were not so attached to materialistic and animal-primate forms of relating? it might be facing more of “the shadow” than we are ready to cope with?

I believe such entities to exist in a state of 'psychoparallelism'; essentially similar to the Jungian 'psychoid' state. As such, I believe them to exist simultaneously as personal mental states, deep unconscious impulses, collective unconscious archetypes, and correlated patterns in the physical world.

yes, this is what i meant. perhaps similar to what you mention later in regards to stage four, i tend to think that the point where the subjective/objective split begins to dissolve is “more real” or closer to what “is” than common experiences formatted on rigid distinctions between subject and object. i feel that there is a “fundamental” identity between the external and internal, which why i feel that this neither proves nor disproves any theses regarding the reality or lack thereof of independent entities: what is is not experienced in any particular mode of consciousness!

as for HAARP, i might well share your concerns…

all this talk of pineal glands and stimulation makes me think of From Beyond…heh.
 
 
sine
04:07 / 02.04.04
If you were to successfully remove the 'dark-side' type effects you could potentially have the most significant piece of interactive entertainment hardware since the pinball machine (you could rename it a 'brainstation' and pitch it to Sony).

I did pitch it to Sony, among others; however, the rate at which the business end of things was moving was pushing much faster than I was comfortable with, and my partner and investors were making requests I considered unethical, hasty, and ill-considered. The ensuing struggle ripped the company apart, and I 'went on research strike'...and was told I needed to start looking elsewhere. It would appear, however, that the Corporate Research Muse came with me.

The vast potential of the device as an entertainment product, medical tool, and cognitive aid has not escaped me, but I don't want to be responsible for the results of improper testing and rushed development; in due time, this technology will emerge, and I believe, will take up an important place alongside its aging cousins print, film, and television, combining with computers to augment life in so many ways that within a generation, its absence will seem unthinkable. Hopefully, some of my early research will get its due when that happens, but I can wait. If they want to speed things along, someone else can risk being the Father of Digital Thalidomide.

I hope 'interesting times' is meant in the non-curse sense? eep.
 
 
A beautiful tunnel of ghosts
13:34 / 02.04.04
sine: thank you for a fascinating insight into the future of our interaction with our environment. I've found this thread to be excpetionally interesting, even if I don't understand a lot of the technical language. Are the effects of this device in any way similar to Brion Gysin and Ian Sommerville's Dreammachine?

macrophage: what CDs are you using at the moment? Have you created them yourself or are they available for sale?
 
 
sine
18:23 / 02.04.04
Though I've never built one or used one, I understand Gysin and Sommerville's Dreamachines to be primitive photic entrainment devices, which I have used (in one model of my device, incorporated). The effect of strobed light entrainment in the 4hz range is qualitatively similar to my Stage 2 and 3, but in my experience, not nearly so intense.
 
 
sine
20:51 / 02.04.04
Here is an idea I've been toying with: using systems of magickal correspondance as 'sense gestalt cues' during the process. For example: let's say one was doing Qabala work and trying to punch up Gevurah. We intro red LED strobing, sound short cues of battle noise, weapons clashing, the 1812 Overture, the Conan soundstack, Holst's Mars, we intro a whiff of tobacco, and so on. If things start to get out of control, or we take a Qlippothic mudslide, flip the off switch and be done with it.
 
 
grant
23:26 / 03.04.04
Are you familiar at all with other meditation systems?
Like, a focused Buddhist meditation -- tantric visualization stuff, Tibetan style, maybe?

Or... how mobile is your device? The one ELF guy I mentioned upthread, he was making things that he strapped onto an epileptic dog's collar, so they were pretty mobile. I'm thinking in terms of martial arts training or even whatever they call that yogic pose stuff... mudras? Do you think this kind of mind-access would lend itself to moving meditations?

Also, just out of curiosity, have you read Rick Strassman's DMT: The Spirit Molecule? His breakdown of experience types seems similar to your stages... and they both involve a penultimate step of entity contact and an ultimate step of, well, cosmic unity. And in both cases, it seems like that's not always a good thing -- sometimes the universe is kind of cold, scary, and hostile.

If you haven't read it, I'd definitely recommend it. Strassman's an MD researcher who got federal permission to test DMT in a clinical setting in the early 90s (I think it was). The level of similarity between his subjects' experience reports and what you're describing here makes me think that the two experiences *have* to be related somehow.
 
 
sine
04:26 / 04.04.04
Are you familiar at all with other meditation systems?
Like, a focused Buddhist meditation -- tantric visualization stuff, Tibetan style, maybe?


Yes, familiar, but not expert; I've dabbled with all kinds of styles over the years - both for magickal and, umm, autotelic purposes - though I tend to come back to 'emptiness' styles as opposed to 'imagery-centred' ones.

Or... how mobile is your device? The one ELF guy I mentioned upthread, he was making things that he strapped onto an epileptic dog's collar, so they were pretty mobile. I'm thinking in terms of martial arts training or even whatever they call that yogic pose stuff... mudras? Do you think this kind of mind-access would lend itself to moving meditations?

One of the final iterations of the design was fully portable, with a flash memory reader built-in specifically to avoid the problems of moving parts and vigorous motion; that said, even at its most portable, the unit wasn't designed to account for anything quite as vigorous as martial arts; strenuous postures would probably be fine. However, with either, you would have to overcome the competing stimuli to elicit noticeable effects and that might be problematic with violent kinetics. I never perfected my research on the 'override' function; without it, optimal results more or less depend on a degree of stimulus dampening, though not complete sensory deprivation.

How do you see it benefiting moving meditations? Do have a specific interaction or application in mind?

Also, just out of curiosity, have you read Rick Strassman's DMT: The Spirit Molecule? His breakdown of experience types seems similar to your stages...The level of similarity between his subjects' experience reports and what you're describing here makes me think that the two experiences *have* to be related somehow.

I haven't read it, but I will; thanks for the recommendation Grant.

As for the similarity between the two experiences: I'm no neuropharmacologist, but if what Jeremy mentioned above about DMT or a DMT-analog being contained or produced in trace amounts within the brain (in the pineal gland) is the case, its certainly possible that the substance's natural release may trigger the same pathways my process does, or that my process may effect the substance's release as a side-effect to stimulating other brain structures.
 
 
sine
12:05 / 04.04.04
Huh...just noticed this thread is already linked to on Erowid. I'll return the favour:

http://www.erowid.org/spirit/devices/devices.shtml
 
 
grant
01:06 / 05.04.04
Yeah, I gave them a heads up about this discussion, because it seemed relevant to that thing what I wrote, and also because I know they're more into electronics than you might guess from usernames like "earth" and "fire".

How do you see it benefiting moving meditations? Do have a specific interaction or application in mind?


I was thinking of tai chi, but just kind of idly. It's not very vigorous, but also not terribly visionary. Some of those yoga disciplines are, but I don't know them. I was really wondering how separate this experience was from the body.
 
 
sine
01:59 / 05.04.04
I was thinking of tai chi, but just kind of idly. It's not very vigorous, but also not terribly visionary. Some of those yoga disciplines are, but I don't know them. I was really wondering how separate this experience was from the body.

It might work fine with tai chi; I haven't done any serious studies of motion and the process...I would say the experience is fairly separate from the body, and can affect sensations in ways that might interfere with complex movement (i.e. vertigo).
 
 
grant
16:42 / 05.04.04
I also had a thought today in the car. I was listening to the NPR, and they had a story on television as a possible cause for childhood ADHD, with an interview with a scientist who started tracking the way infants and toddlers develop after hours watching TV every day.

So I was wondering if we're actually surrounded by devices like this already, that are affecting us in ways we don't know.

I mean, a TV definitely lets off radiation with a specific frequency, and I know I've read about brainwaves getting entrained to TV frequencies. What about other electric devices?
 
 
sine
20:48 / 05.04.04
I also had a thought today in the car. I was listening to the NPR, and they had a story on television as a possible cause for childhood ADHD, with an interview with a scientist who started tracking the way infants and toddlers develop after hours watching TV every day.

Check out my thread on the Nazis.

So I was wondering if we're actually surrounded by devices like this already, that are affecting us in ways we don't know. I mean, a TV definitely lets off radiation with a specific frequency, and I know I've read about brainwaves getting entrained to TV frequencies. What about other electric devices?

Most of them aren't operating at frequencies our brains would recognize...as far as I know. The exact neurophysiology of the telly is not my field, but from what I understand, it grabs us my using a sort of primitive override. Basically, it uses editing tricks to keep our attention: rapid cuts, unusual perspectives, etc. Look at msuic videos, Sesame Street, ads. All of them are structured with rapid shifts, cut-cut-cut. The world around us doesn't do that, and we're predisposed to pay attention to changing things and things that move rapidly. Hence why having the TV on kills conversation. As I mentioned in the Nazi thread, I recommend Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television...a bit old, but less dated than prophetic.

When you say getting entrained to TV frequencies do you mean the signal or the screen or the electron gun, or something else?
 
 
grant
16:09 / 06.04.04
Check out my thread on the Nazis.


OOo -- I just noticed that. Cool!



Most of them aren't operating at frequencies our brains would recognize...as far as I know.

So much for using the blowdryer to hypnotize my wife, then.

When you say getting entrained to TV frequencies do you mean the signal or the screen or the electron gun, or something else?

Well, we're bumping over the border between what grant knows he knows and what grant thinks he knows, but...

I was under the impression that the quick cuts captured attention and held it there, but the actual neurological changes had more to with the frequency at which the raster repaints the image on the screen.

I know from editing video it works out to nearly 30 frames per second, with a frame being a full screen's worth of lines of resolution (or am I misusing that term?). I can't remember how many lines are in a screen, or even if that was really the difference between NTSC (American video) and PAL (European video). But anyway, that'd be the "entraining" frequency, wouldn't it? Is that frequency different from the EMF frequency from the hardware behind the screen?
 
  

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