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It's official - I am a sad, lonely geek

  
  

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40%
23:15 / 27.02.04
Okay, here's the deal. I put up an advert in my uni building for anyone who wanted to have a song written to a particular theme. This girl replied, and asked to have a song written for her best friend as a Christmas present. I obliged, and wrote a lovely stirring song which both her and her friend loved, or so they said.

Later she emailed me asking if I would write another song. Incidentally, the first one was free. I told her probably that would be okay, but I would be asking £20 this time. I didn't hear from her for a while. In fact, it was supposed to be for Valentine's Day, and that time had long passed without me hearing from her. So I sent her an email registering my slight discontent with this. And tonight I got her reply. I'd just like to share both of these with you...

My email:

Nicola

I haven't heard from you, so I assume you won't be requiring my services again. I am wondering whether the price was a bit high for you as a student, or what it was. But as you can imagine, writing and recording a song can be quite an involved business, and at this stage of my life, I can't afford to do everything for free, given the time involved.

I must say I find it a little disappointing not to even receive a reply. If you don't want to spend the money, I understand entirely. But you said you had an idea for Valentine's Day, and as soon as I mention money, I don't hear from you again. I delivered something that was worth money for free last time, and I am surprised if you were just presuming that I would do so again, as I am not actually a registered charity. But however you felt about paying money, the least you could have done is replied.

I don't really know what else to say. I'm sorry our relationship, such as it is, has ended this way. I really enjoyed making that song, and I feel I got a lot out of it personally. It's just a shame that not all my memories of this episode are going to be positive...

And here's her response:

Hello

I think you need to relax a bit!

The reason I didn't reply to you last time was because I decided against the idea of a song for Valentines day because it was still early days with my boyfriend and I thought it was a cheesy idea. Not because I think you are, as you put it, a registered charity. Also correct me if I'm wrong but you were the one who suggested no payment for the first song- I would of been happy to give you money for it. It was well worth some.

Finally, as for your reference to our 'relationship' being over, you need to get a life. I met you for five minutes to pick up the song and had perhaps, five emails having contact with you. That is in no way a relationship in which I think you can talk to me in the manner of that last email.

By the way, I've got a new topic for you to write songs on- the fact that you are a sad lonely geek who has to fantasise about some supposed relationship with a girl you have never actually properly spoken to.

Nic

So, the basic premise of this thread is to come up with a better insult for me than that. Maybe I could send her an email giving suggestions on how she might improve her insulting technique. So, come on Barbelith, abuse me!
 
 
gingerbop
23:29 / 27.02.04
Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries.
 
 
w1rebaby
23:31 / 27.02.04
You had to laminate all your Buffy posters.
 
 
The Puck
23:32 / 27.02.04
How does that e-mail make it offical? you are only a sad lonly geek if you wrote the song in klingon.

The fact you expected to someone to understand the use of the word relationship in any other context but the most popular is just naive.
 
 
---
23:43 / 27.02.04
I don't think i've ever come across an elderberry.
 
 
mixmage
23:54 / 27.02.04
me either... try in a melon instead.
Don't warm it in the microwave, tho.
 
 
40%
00:00 / 28.02.04
Man, if there's anything I'll put my hands up to any day of the week it's being naive.

Would you have interpreted it in the same way then? That I was under the impression that this was a romantic situation?
 
 
gingerbop
00:05 / 28.02.04
Hmm. Immediately, yes, but if I'd thought about it for a second longer, which she clearly hasnt had the patience to do, then yes.

But do you really give a fuck?
 
 
The Puck
00:07 / 28.02.04
words like relationship are weighty words to be thrown around dude.
 
 
---
00:18 / 28.02.04
Yeah you've both got your wires crossed by the looks of it.

You meant (or at least i think you did) relationship in the sense of friendship, she thought that you was thinking you was both in a relationship. Hence, all the bullshit.

If your really gutted, write to her again and tell her you worded the whole thing wrong, was going through a bad patch in your life and your sorry. Then ask if you could start over again and maybe be friends.

If your not bothered, fuck it.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
00:19 / 28.02.04
Eh. He was using it in it's formal, buisness sense. And if she can't understand that at university level she's a cretin. And you should call her a fucking cretin. Then write a really spiteful song and attach it to the email as an MP3. Then hum it loudly if you ever see her in the street. then slash her tires and paint her windscreen with hammerite. You get the picture.

Fuckin' beeeyatch. That had to be ptetty hurtful, 40%.
 
 
w1rebaby
00:22 / 28.02.04
I'd fuck it right now. Anything further and you'll just come across as obsessed. Who cares what Random Misconstruer Person thinks?

Your home page is Slashdot and you have said "a/s/l" and meant it.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
00:22 / 28.02.04
TBH, it was a silly, mannered and rather pompous email. It deserved a more polite response than it got, but I'm not sure it *demanded* it.
 
 
w1rebaby
00:23 / 28.02.04
I want to hear the song, now.
 
 
40%
00:24 / 28.02.04
Yeah, true.

I'm trying to be honest to my own intentions here, but the thing was that I felt she was trivialising the whole thing from the start, and I think I wanted to say something weighty, to see how she would respond. And her response told her everything I needed to know really.

What does the undertone of my original email sound like? I intended it to be as diplomatic as possible, but can you feel anything beneath the surface of it?

Ginger - not exactly. I mean, I don't mind being misunderstood at all. The fact that her reaction was so strong almost made me glad that I did say what I said, because I learned something about her. But you say "yes" and "yes". So I asked for it, in a way? Yeah, probably.

I guess I attributed her attitude to the fact that she's not an artistic type, and I am. But I am seriously intense even for an artistic type. Sometimes I am able to take a step back from myself and see how crazy and melodramatic I must sound sometimes, but I'm not sure whether I can feel differently about things.

I mean (into full melodramatic mode here), I did something for her that I've never done for anyone. And yet she has shown me less gratitude and more derision than anyone I can remember since I was in school. If someone made you a lovely piece of music free of charge, wouldn't you cut them a little slack, even if you did believe that they harboured romantic delusions towards you?

Sorry, I'm ranting.
 
 
w1rebaby
00:27 / 28.02.04
Song! Song! Song!
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
00:27 / 28.02.04
You're artistic, right? So you love painting?

Get the Hammerite.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
00:35 / 28.02.04
But I am seriously intense even for an artistic type.

You know, I think you need to relax a bit.
 
 
40%
00:36 / 28.02.04
Haus - I'm sure you're right, but I'm kinda like that. About my music and anything else important to me, anyway. How would you do differently in my position?

Fridgemagnet - PM your address, it'll be no problem.

Well, in response to the 'don't post anything further' advice, unfortunately I went against it before starting this thread. I sent an email, which didn't say anything nasty, so I didn't stoop to her level in that way. But, I hardly think it would have avoided me seeming obsessed. It might have explained a bit more how and why I am obsessed.

Do I really give a fuck? Quite honestly, I don't give a fuck what people think of me. I only give a fuck if I think I'm wrong. So if I have cocked this situation up, I do care, only out of pride. But do I want to start over and be friends with her? Do I ballbags? Would you want to be friends with her, Jack?
 
 
40%
00:37 / 28.02.04
You're not funny, Haus.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
00:39 / 28.02.04
No, really, I am. Honest.
 
 
Jack Fear
00:45 / 28.02.04
He is, you know. And more importantly, he's right.

Let it go.

calmblueoceancalmblueoceancalmblueoceancalmblueocean
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
00:51 / 28.02.04
Point being, I'm afraid I don't see where you get to be the injured party here. OK, so she suggested you wrote another song, then forgot about it. Maybe she didn't want to pay for it, maybe she decided against it, maybe she just got distracted. You then sent a frankly rather rude email, excoriating her for not giving you enough attention and calling her cheap. As I imagine anyone suddenly in receipt of an email from an almost total stranger demanding that they be shoved to the front of one's mind might have done, she responded suggesting that you were behaving as if you were far more significant to her than you actually were. She was indeed impolite, but she really didn't start that. And she's right - you didn't have a relationship that justified an email with that tone. Justifying it on the grounds of being all intense is just going to get you a reputation as the slightly wanky arts student who hangs around the freshers every year in a leather jacket.

And now you are continuing to demand that she pay attention to you and respect your big intensity thing with *another* email. How do you think this is going to play? Because it sounds like it might seem rather oppressive to me.

Not to mention agoraphobic. Whatever happened to the good old days when people got their faces slapped in the beercellar, rather than by email?
 
 
---
01:21 / 28.02.04
Would you want to be friends with her, Jack?

Yes, i would. I'm a very strange person. Or maybe i would just like to let her know that i didn't mean to offend and make peace. Yes, i like making peace with anyone and everyone.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
02:41 / 28.02.04
She didn't actually say that, did she ? Because if she did, if she did... Man there's no way two ways around it, she does have to die.
 
 
5% nation
02:59 / 28.02.04
40%: This Nicola girl felt attacked by your e-mail and decided to respond in a way that would make you feel insecure. That's it. If she could have found any way to work in that you have a tiny penis w/o making her e-mail seem sexual to someone who was oh-so-obviously coming onto her (it's a joke), she would have done it.

As for how you came off in your original e-mail, if you meant to be diplomatic, why were you sarcastic, then? I am specifically referencing your "I am not a charity" comment. You were trying to needle her and you know it. She was a jerk never to respond, but honestly.

I can definitely see how she got a pervy vibe out of it, too. It's kind of a long e-mail for a business question; also you mention your 'relationship' alongside statements like "I got a lot out of it personally" and "I enjoyed making that song." Can you honestly say you weren't trying to guilt-trip her?

In short: I agree with Haus on this.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
03:40 / 28.02.04
But that e-mail was... ill-advised, let's put it that way
 
 
aus
04:29 / 28.02.04
I think the e-mail could have been more businesslike, particularly as you use the word "relationship" in a business sense. There are mixed messages. However, I think it is OK. It didn't need to be perfect. The girl clearly overreacted.

I don't know what you wrote in the second e-mail, but I don't think anything was necessary. She had already terminated your business relationship with her reply.

Forget about it, but learn the lesson that many people will not value something that cost them nothing. She didn't value her aquaintanceship with you because you gave something and expected nothing in return. Don't EVER give songs away if you intend to sell them. People will take the freebie and be disgruntled that later you expect money for something that was previously free. This is why the Internet industry had a meltdown - remember?
 
 
Jack Denfeld
06:39 / 28.02.04
I think the fact that you're one of us, is making people sugarcoat the answer a little bit. You could have kept it a bit more professional and more to the point.

"Hey you. You never responded. Would you still like the song?"

Instead it sounds like you're lecturing her, and it does come off somewhere between creepy and jerk like. Look at the big picture, even though you take your art very serious, to her you're just a guy from the dorms selling songs. So it wasn't like a letter from Microsoft asking her if she still planned on getting Windows999, it was a guy acting rude on the internet.

Not to say you're a bad guy, just that you might not be looking at it from both sides.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
07:55 / 28.02.04
Yeah, what the Robot said...

...and miscommunication. I don't think the original email was overly preachy- IF IT WAS TO SOMEBODY YOU KNEW PROPERLY. But it could easily be construed as being a bit mean. And yes, she did completely misinterpret the use of the word "relationship"- which is her bad- but taken in tandem with the rest of it, I can kind of see where she's coming from.

Now, I know (or at least presume) that wasn't your intent...

This is, of course, the danger of email (and message boards. Oh God yes, and message boards). Unless you're face to face, it is often hard to convey exactly what you want to... words alone can be taken in many different ways.

So... I don't think you're a bad person... I think you maybe came across as being a bit arrogant (again, I'm assuming that wasn't your intention) and, in conjunction with the whole "relationship" misunderstanding... you see what I mean, yes? She doesn't have the context to put your comments/words in... so she's read you wrong. Not her fault... not really your fault.

But a bit crap nonetheless for all concerned.
 
 
■
08:42 / 28.02.04
She also used "would of" rather than "would have", so I guess she's probably a bit thick.
 
 
---
08:48 / 28.02.04
Yeah! 'Would of' wierdo......

Fuck it man. Get over it, let this thread die and recover. It's no big thing.
 
 
40%
09:36 / 28.02.04
5% Nation - could you elaborate on the 'pervy vibe' a bit? I didn't quite understand your explanation of that. I can't see why it being long would qualify. Guilt trip I can't argue with, but pervy vibe I'm not sure about. And Mike - 'creepy' because...

The trouble is that although I recognise what people are saying about how I handled it badly, I still feel better for having got those things off my chest (I'm more referring to the second email I sent after these ones). And yes, before she would have had no bad opinion of me, and now she thinks I'm a freak. But in a strange way, I would rather have alienated her by telling her how I really feel about this, than had her blissfully unaware of it. So in a way, as Haus says, I am justifying it by being 'all intense'. It has been cathartic for me even if it has not done my reputation any good.

But as regards to the guilt-tripping and so on, you're right, and that isn't really fair. It's one thing to tell her how I feel about it, another thing to try and hold her responsible for that, which is what I was doing. You could say I have boundary issues.

To go back to what Haus said about 'being all intense', I would like to focus on that. The question I would like to ask here is, is there any legitimate sense in which I could be said to be 'revealing my feelings' about the situation, which is not inherently about lecturing/guilt tripping/attacking her. That is, I didn't like her attitude towards me, and I felt hurt by it. But is to actually tell her that wrong in itself?

And if so, is that because of the 'level of relationship' thing. And if so, at what level of relationship does it become legitimate to tell people about when they have hurt you? The whole point about this situation was that me and this girl had differing ideas about the level of relationship involved in such a project. Since the 'level of relationship' thing is her whole argument as to why I should get off her case, and I don't happen to see it that way...

I suppose it's that a 'relationship' of any kind has to be mutual before it is anything, right?

But does that mean that if someone hurts you precisely by not wanting the level of relationship that you feel is appropriate to the situation...you just have to shut the fuck up and deal with it, right?

Gah.
 
 
_Boboss
09:54 / 28.02.04
oh come on, you've got to post up the other email you sent.

how are we supposed to judge fairly how much of a twat you are (so far: lots, and rising) if you won't fully disclose?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:04 / 28.02.04
And if so, is that because of the 'level of relationship' thing. And if so, at what level of relationship does it become legitimate to tell people about when they have hurt you? The whole point about this situation was that me and this girl had differing ideas about the level of relationship involved in such a project. Since the 'level of relationship' thing is her whole argument as to why I should get off her case, and I don't happen to see it that way...

OK, I think we're making a bit of progress here, but...

I think the reason she wants you to get off her case is that, as far as she was concerned, you were never *on* her case. You offered a service (songwriting) at a cost (free). You then were contacted for the same service, gave a revised quote, and then did not hear from her. In that capacity, an email asking whether she still wanted a song, because you had orders all over the place you had to satisfy, or because you wanted to clear the decks before getting down to some other work, would be reasonable. An email about how your songs are all valuable (not something she had questioned), how you were not a charity (not relevant, as she had not asked for anything from you that you had not willingly supplied gratis, ending your relationship (you didn't really *have* a relationship, even in the business sense. She contracted, you supplied. Once. That is the relationship between shopkeeper and purchaser of pint of milk) and blaming her for your not having positive feelings about it (see pint of milk).

I don't know if pervy is the right word, but hideously over-invested, and assuming that everybody thinks as often of you as you do, definitely. Assuming that you thought you and she were somehow romantically involved is an unkind reading, but it's a perfectly credible one; your first letter is suitably diffuse and personalised to suggest that you *do* feel a level of entitlement commensurate with criticising her as you did, which you simply do. Not. Have.

I know we're onto a loser, here - I was emotionally disturbed and needy at university, so were most other people, it's something one probably has to go throguh at some time - but do try to think of the consequences. I don't know how long you have left at this university, but if the content of your second email is as infelicitous as I suspect it is, it is already being printed out and passed around. Might be best to cut your losses. Unless its contents were "Sorry, you've misunderstood. I didn't mean relationship-relationship. I meant supplier-contractor relationship. As such, although I will take your judgement under advisement, I think you're reading from the wrong hymnal. Anyway, sorry to trouble you, cheerio" - and even then I don't see a lot of profit in it - I doubt it was a very good idea to send it *anyway*.
 
  

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