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Bendis + Maleev + Daredevil - Too Many Exclamation Points = Best?

 
  

Page: 12(3)

 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
11:02 / 19.01.06
Hey, no need for you two to go to the mat over questions regarding that status of my idiocy.

Suuure, I have a tendency to overexagerrate (like the title of this thread, which sends me into cringing fits every time I see it), but I stand pretty firmly behind my current views on Marvel and DC. I think your view of their particular books as "mutually stupid" seems to ignore the enormous gaps in competency when it comes to either company's editorial practices. I would be loathe to recommend that you possibly take a closer at their respective output, as while it might give you a bit more insight into where I'm coming from, I don't see the need for you to drop money on shit you're uninterested in. Is DC doing everything right? No, but on a basic level, Marvel are just tripping over their shoelaces right and left. Look at Hulk #91 (or don't, actually). Supposedly a clutch issue in terms of their We-Can-Do-That-Too attempts at forming some kind of cohesive universe after years of neglect, and they can't be bothered to have the already shoddy artwork inked. I mean, straight up, the book looks like shit. Star Wars comics levels of shit. At least DC, whether you like them or not, have their fucking shirts tucked in. The majority of Marvel these days is unengaging, irrelevant, and on a fundamental level, poorly designed. You may be equally disinterested in both of the companies' approaches, but calling them mutually stupid seems to ignore the fact that one of them clearly appears more organized than the other.

I'll admit that a lot of this comes from the fact that I end up reading a lot of those bullshit updates on Newsarama where "Joey Q" puts on his Bobby "The Brain" Heenan rhinestone and form-fitting shirt and acts like a circus monkey, so that might color my viewpoint as well. As you might not have read those or many of the shittier books in question (and, seriously, smart move) I can see why you might think one is just as bad as the other.

Perhaps this argument is best left for another thread, but for curiosity's sake, how much of these books do you read? Now, that's curiosity, mind. I'm not throwing down some kind of Hammer Of Thor in a Fanboy Challenge or anything.

As far as Lark replacing Maleev, as a personal preference, I'd have to respectfully to disagree with you, Boboss.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:12 / 19.01.06
Newsarama interviews are always an embarrassment. Take this one, in which Geoff Johns and Kurt Busiek appear to be have genuine medically-quantifiable brain damage - nothing to choose between this and Quesada. I have a slight preference for Marvel's recent tendency to spoil things in these interviews, because that's what they're there for. The DC lot, on the other hand, keep giving these interviews and giving endlessly tedious non-answers - Superman will be SUPER in our run! If you don't want to know in advance, you don't read shitty sites like Newsarama. Some of us are a bit sad and do (I want to quit, I really do).

The main difference between the two companies is that within the remit of their mainstream superhero universes, Marvel publishes a few books I enjoy to varying degrees(Daredevil being one of the best) and DC doesn't.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
13:36 / 19.01.06
The main difference between the two companies is that within the remit of their mainstream superhero universes, Marvel publishes a few books I enjoy to varying degrees(Daredevil being one of the best) and DC doesn't.

Absolutely no way I can argue that.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:36 / 26.01.06
as for Bendis' final issue, out this week:

Pretty strong finale. Good 'what would happen if I took this path' moment in the opening beats...and great tension as all the legalities are gone through in the courtroom as Matt is asked, "What do you plead - guilty or not guilty?"

I could have done with a slightly different delivery of the final pages - like the concept but the execution didn't seem like it had enough "oomph" to end a run (and with such a cliffhanger ending). Although I love the idea. We leave Matt in jail, in a special section - the same section that houses many of his old adversaries.

As for all this 'death of X' stuff with the DD book, Bendis even mentions it in his final essay in the back, and he says some strange things about it, which further fuels speculation that maybe the 'spoilers' Marvel released are psyche-outs of a sort...
 
 
FinderWolf
19:39 / 26.01.06
oh, and although I love Maleev's art (and Lark's as well), my one critique of Maleev's art is that, as previously opined here, his action scenes usually seemed to lack a bit in the sense of movement or composition that gave the reader a sense of action. I feel this criticism of his art has validity to it, but I still love the guy's art in pretty much every other way, and look forward to seeing it in the Bendis-written Spider-Woman monthly coming up...
 
 
Mr Tricks
20:06 / 26.01.06
Yeah, it didn't feel like much of an ending and that whole "what could be sequence" went on a bit too long and towards the end stretched believability. Nice touches on Elektra though.
 
 
Eskay Uno
05:12 / 28.01.06
That dream-sequence is a TOTAL rip off of a certain movie, and Bendis should be friggin' ashamed of himself!!! I won't say which movie to avoid spoiling it, but it was a big budget Hollywood flick by a very famous director and stars at least 4 very well known actors. I really LOVED the final arc until this issue. That swipe was a total cop out! I wanted a real trial, not this lazy-ass shit. And what the hell was Foggy doing representing Matt anyway? It was established in the issue before that he faced some jail time himself for aiding and abetting! WTF! 5 truly awesome issues pissed upon by a really foul and lazy ending.

The Bendis/Maleev run had some fantastic moments, and I applaud it on guts alone, but it dropped the ball too many times for me to say it's anything better than average. It COULD have been great though! That's what makes it a frustrating run, IMHO.

Looking forward to Brubaker and Lark. This new direction does keep my interest. Marvel keeps making some interesting choices for this title.
 
 
FinderWolf
12:40 / 28.01.06
I could be wrong, but I feel pretty sure that the whole 'see what could happen in your life if you took a certain course of action in the blink of an eye and then make the opposite decision after considering how events might play out' wasn't only done in one movie or story.
 
 
FinderWolf
12:42 / 28.01.06
Not trying to be snide; I just mean that that story device has been done before in general in storytelling, and it doesn't really mean that it's therefore a ripoff of one particular movie or story.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
03:19 / 30.01.06
I went into this story arc with more dread than I had the other ones, simply because there was only one way it could end. Bendis did it right by not letting some "Marvelized" ending pull him away from what the story demanded, and it was nice to see a writer in ANY medium go ahead and play out what he'd set up rather than pull a rabbit out of his hat.

I didn't mind the "Here's one thing I could do" story device because I've seen it in a lot more than the ones people brought up here, so it worked for me as a normal plot device.

I wonder why it is that Daredevil is the character that people are able to do this kind of work with. Is there something about his pulp roots that allows people to do this, or is that that Marvel had no idea what to do with the character REPEATEDLY and just let people go wild with it?
 
 
FinderWolf
13:26 / 30.01.06
Probably a bit of both.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
08:00 / 17.02.06
So has anyone checked out the new Brubaker issue? I used to dig Brubaker's Batman back in the day and his Captain America is good stuff. Just wondering if any of you guys read it and how it compares to Bendis' DD.
 
 
lonely as a cloud...
09:45 / 17.02.06
It's hard to say how Brubaker's DD differs from Bendis' just yet...the main difference in the first issue is from Lark's art, which isn't quite as atmospheric as Maleev's, but looked a decent fit. Murdock's in jail, but at the same time someone's taken it upon themselves to impersonate Daredevil... and it's nothing to do with Foggy.
 
Pretty decent start; and, reading Bendis' little essay at the end of last month's issue, it's pretty cool that Brubaker was 100% with Bendis on how his (Bendis') run ended.
 
 
Spaniel
11:18 / 17.02.06
Well, to quote me elsewhere (with a few edits)...

I really enjoyed Brubaker and Lark's first issue of Daredevil. Despite the fact that I am very keen on Bendis's run, I'm glad to see the back of his dialogue, dominated, as it always is, by the bendeesvoice, and as for Maleev, well, I'm sure most of you know my thoughts on his pencils. Static referenced art does not a dynamic comic make.

Brubaker has a lovely way of writing really chunky comics - almost everything I've ever read of his leaves me feeling full up, like after a nice big dinner. Again, that's far more than I can say for a lot of Bendis's work.

Spoiler alert...









Not sure about the htaed fo yggof (hint: reversi), but it was done really well. All that, "I can hear a knife going into flesh" stuff, and "I can hear his heart. It's still beating" - just soooo fucking nasty and heartbreaking.





End spoiler space
 
 
The Natural Way
11:50 / 17.02.06
Spoilslotshotinthedark MOUTHFOODHOT!








Brubaker likes to start at someone's grisly end, doesn't he?
 
 
FinderWolf
13:53 / 17.02.06
Maybe we should start a new thread for Brubaker's run on DD...
 
 
Spaniel
15:11 / 17.02.06
I reckon.
 
 
The Falcon
09:08 / 18.02.06
I think we should just have a Brubaker all-purpose thread. I'll prolly rack it today, unless someone else does it first.
 
 
Spaniel
10:13 / 18.02.06
I dare you to have done it by the time I get back from the shops.
 
 
Janean Patience
10:09 / 17.05.08
If he isn't back from the shops by now, I think we should start to worry.

I finished the Bendis/Maleev run about a week ago - actually, I read the utterly irredeemable Smith run and the subsequent flounderings as well - and I have mixed feeling about it. For the first half of the run, at least up to the King of Hell's Kitchen arc, I was taking back every criticism I've made of Bendis. Obviously inspired by Miller's run, he picked up the ball and runs with it.

And now I've got to go fit a floor. Shitty timing. More later.
 
 
Janean Patience
19:35 / 19.05.08
Fuck, that was hard.

Anyway. Bendis takes the themes of Miller's work and pushes them further. The Kingpin knows your identity? No, it's on the front of the New York Post. You're having a minor mental breakdown because you lost your ex-girlfriend? How about a major breakdown? You proposed to a woman with no idea why you were doing it? How about this time you marry her? It's like Grant Morrison's take on Claremont's X-Men - all the storylines that shaped these characters revisited at greater length and with more depth. And it works great. Matt has been exposed as Daredevil and wriggled out of it before, but the way it's done here on the front page of a paper in a noir crime story gives the character a new status quo. Everyone knows, even if they can't officially say so. Everyone knows and he can't convince them otherwise because it's true.

Apart from the out of character ending for the White Tiger in the Trial Of The Century arc, the thematic companion to Miller's Gladiator trial, it's all good stuff. And it builds beautifully to the climax, Matt's intellect and rage duelling until he finally just beats the living shit out of Bullseye and the Kingpin and breaks the deadlock that Daredevil and the Kingpin have been in since Miller brought Tubs in as the villain. He chooses a third way with no idea what he's doing because the Daredevil part of his character - impulsive, physical, showboating - is in control.

And it's after that it begins to fall apart for me. The next couple of arcs are fine, a retake of the post-Elektra breakdown at today's pace and with more serious consequences, and a Widow arc which manages to encapsulate the chemistry between the characters while updating it to suit the book's new premise. But Golden Age, while it's got a lot of charm between its colour dots, treads water in terms of the larger storyline. It misuses the Gladiator fairly badly, turning an interesting reformed villain for whom Daredevil is something like a saviour into one more blackmailed hood. (And though it was good to see Typhoid Mary earlier on, as a big fan of the Nocenti run, she wasn't exactly well used either.) And with Decalogue, which really is what we've been building toward all this time, an examination of how Daredevil can make a difference in Hell's Kitchen, it all collapses.

This is obviously subjective, but to me it seems like Bendis goes blank after two issues of that arc. We're finding out how DD, as the Kingpin, has made a difference. The dealer's girl and the bomber's son tell their stories. Then there's an abrupt shift in direction and it becomes another story entirely, one that doesn't really say anything about the hero or his city. It's a failure of writing. Do I remember Bendis admitting in interviews that he changed plans there? Either way it's no kind of payoff. We jump from noir back onto the clean shiny rails of a superhero story, somewhere we've not been for the whole run.

Then the big finale, The Murdock Papers, compounds that retreat. The Kingpin returns again, after having been beaten down to nothing twice in this writer's run alone. We're back to square one. Elektra pointlessly returns because oo wow Elektra, the Widow's back, Bullseye's back again doing the same thing again because nobody can think of anything else to do with Mr Women In Refridgerators, and the arc which should put the capstone on an innovative new direction for the character goes nowhere. Murdock's sent to prison because nobody's done that yet, not because it's a logical conclusion to the journey he's been on. It's a cop out.

Anyone agree? Have I missed something? Was I expecting too much of a superhero comic?
 
 
FinderWolf
21:01 / 19.05.08
I thought Murdock going to prison was a very logical extension of the story (since everyone knew who he was by that point, and the FBI wanted its pound of flesh, so to speak) and if you want something bold, Murdock in prison for about 4-5 months' worth of very well-told stories by Brubaker & Lark was pretty bold.
 
 
Janean Patience
18:04 / 20.05.08
I thought Murdock going to prison was a very logical extension of the story

Actually, I agree with you. It was the right ending. He couldn't have carried on with that dance between legalities for long. What I didn't agree with was the substance of the final arc, because prison was Murdock's ending. He fucked up as Murdock and got sent down as Murdock, but almost the whole of the arc was Daredevil. it was a superhero story when a secret identity story was needed, and a team-up story where none was needed, and a story that brought back two villains who's been comprehensively defeated not that long ago for the same old threats and stalemates. I don't think that the fantasy sequence served much purpose either, apart from to reiterate the Bullseye-kills-girlfriends trope, but that's a different complaint. Prison was a logical conclusion: The Murdock Papers didn't bring the story to that conclusion in a satisfactory manner.

Anyway, was Elektra a Skrull in that arc? It was post-Hand takeover, which was fairly out-of-character for a conflicted ninja assassin, so I'd guess yes. How badly does that fuck things up..?
 
 
FinderWolf
18:24 / 20.05.08
yep, given that Bendis wrote the story and had been toying with this Skrull idea for the past 4-5 years or so, I think it's safe to assume he had it in his head. I actually remember thinking at the time "kind of odd that the mostly-reformed, not-that-evil-anymore Elektra [remember the Rucka Elektra ongoing series where she fought against her evil killing machine nature?] is running The Hand - they screwed her over so many times." I figured maybe she wanted to take over and run them for slightly-more-good-than-evil, perhaps the same way DD became the new self-declared 'Kingpin' of Hell's Kitchen. But it struck me as odd. And now we know why.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
20:29 / 20.05.08
I went over the Bendis Daredevil arc again recently, and it does seem to have dated a bit. At the time, it was terrific, but a lot of it feels slow, and sanctimonious, these days. Eg, Bendis' apparent respect for Matt's legal career. Would somebody like that necessarily take on clients that were always in the right?

Brubaker has done a good job, one might argue, but what's to be done with a character that's basically run out of options? He's been to prison (and escaped thanks to Frank Castle) his wife's insane, and it's all his fault.

At this stage, how would it be possible to rescue Matt's career, as a superhero or otherwise?
 
  

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