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The Passion: Is Mel Bonkers?

 
  

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sleazenation
08:16 / 28.02.04
I have no intention of going to see this film.

There is no real vehemence in that decision, its just that the subject matter does not appeal to me. There are some technical aspects that seem fun and appealing, such as going to the effort to ensure the that everyone is speaking in Aramaic and Latin, but that isn't really enough to get my money.

Just curious to those possessing broadly judeo-christian beliefs - how do you approach a film based on a sacred text? Different to other films?
 
 
diz
08:29 / 28.02.04
i just saw it a little while ago. i'm not really in the mood to post a full review right now, but overall i've got to say i'm underwhelmed. it's a thoroughly unexceptional movie in virtually every way. flat and dull when it's not wallowing in generic, uninspired, pious melodrama. Gibson's directing tends to be ham-handed and amateurish. not worse than the average B-grade Hollywood flick in that regard, but not even close to genius. definitely anti-Semitic, but in a semi-low-key way. somewhat violent, but really not that bad.

overall, just kinda crap. not awful, even though it's offensive in some respects, but mostly just kinda crap.
 
 
raelianautopsy
16:50 / 28.02.04
I have seen the movie and returned.

I liked it. It was an interesting two hours of deicidal violence, although a bit melodramatic. But what else could it have been?

I suppose the charges of 'anti-semetism' are a little understandable, but you would still have to give these same charges to the Bible. Sure the Pharisee priests were one-dimensional bad guys, while Pontius Pilate was deep and three-dimensional, but that is just how the New Testament does portray it. It doesn't make sense that repeating the New Testament can be so controversial.

As far as historical inacuracies go, they too were just repetitions of the Bible(which is not a historical document, which is still fine). I still say that it is a good idea for a movie to be more about repeating the Gospels as much as possible than it should be historically accurate. For example, having the court's judgement at night and the depiction of Pilate's rule. For the millionth time the Bible should trump real history for the sake of making a good movie.

And there were a few things made up just for the movie, but none of those were anti-Jewish. In particular I really liked the depiction of Satan, very original and creepy.

The main problem is still vicim-minded people looking too hard for fictional examples of racism all around them.
 
 
raelianautopsy
16:52 / 28.02.04
Hey, with all this talk of a sequel, why not make a third one and call it a trilogy. After the Gnostic second one, how about the third one being about the Second Coming? It can take place in the future and be a sci-fi action flick.
 
 
Ria
20:33 / 28.02.04
GWB will produce.
 
 
raelianautopsy
02:07 / 29.02.04
One more thing: the most historically accurate thing that other historical films always miss is the bad teeth. A lot of the people in the Passion had some really disgusting teeth. How historically accurate was that?

And I'd like to give a shout out to h3r! I saw you name in the credits, and the movie did have great sound.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
14:12 / 01.03.04
Hey Stoatie.

I haven't seen it!! Haha. I did find it amusing up the thread there when someone pointed out that in the quest for 'authenticity' they've gone as far as rendering the whole thing in long-dead languages, and then gone and cast Johnny WASP as Jesus. I think I'll wait for the DVD.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
14:18 / 01.03.04
The wrong languages too, according to the Cross+Flame guys (and others).
 
 
aus
14:20 / 01.03.04
James Caviezel is a White, Anglo-Saxon Protestant? You think Caviezel is an English name? James Caviezel is Catholic.
 
 
grant
18:30 / 01.03.04
Is a Barbelith user quoted in this piece on the sound crew?
 
 
h3r
22:17 / 01.03.04
nope. none of those guys are fellow barbelithians.
since my function as a doubleagent had became apparent to the rest of the crew at an early stage, they were making sure i wont get any media exposure to talk conspiracy....
but its true the whole crew was very much into this, it was just a project unlike any others, i will try to dig out jpgs form the "mass on the dub stage" they are mentioning in the article...
 
 
h3r
23:25 / 01.03.04
cast Johnny WASP as Jesus
he looks pretty middle eastern in the flick. they did have to change his eye color though.

plus he was 33 when they shot it. and his initials are J.C.

I think the cast is brilliant, including jesus.

there i go again praising the film i guess i'm biased .

honestly though, last time i saw it I was not sure whether I liked it or not.
its defintely worth seeing for curiosity's sake though.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
08:21 / 02.03.04
See, this is why i *love* Barbelith. You learn something new all the time...I never knew the 'P' in WASP stood for 'Protestant'...I thought it was 'Person'...
 
 
raelianautopsy
16:13 / 02.03.04
But the point is that Jesus was played by a white guy. The image of white Jesus is just so ingrained in our culture that theirs just no escaping it.

It would be very interesting to see a movie with a real middle-eastern Jesus, who would basically be Arab. What would right-wing Christians think of that?
 
 
Seth
20:30 / 02.03.04
I'm sure they'd be fine with it if he was played by Siddig. I know I would be.
 
 
Seth
20:33 / 02.03.04
 
 
lolita nation
03:06 / 03.03.04
hold up hold up --

ecclesiastical Latin? soft c's and, uh, V not pronounced like W?

I swore at the end of my last Latin translation final to forget everything I had ever learned about the blasted language, and kept up with that promise in spite of myself -- but I know I noticed these things, particularly when Pilate was talking to Miss Cross and the (unsubtitled!) soldiers were doing the scourging -- and if Jesus spoke Latin at all, wouldn't it have been closer to classical Latin?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
09:09 / 03.03.04
Alex Siddig rocks da house! I doubt I'll bother going to see it, like Sleaze, I have no strong desire to see it. That said, I might borrow it on video unless raelian's 'Evil Jewish Conspiracy (Golders Green branch)' prevent any copies being brought into North London. It would be amusing if this film does for it's religion and director what Battlefield Earth did for Scientology and Travolta.
 
 
penitentvandal
13:48 / 03.03.04
I do intend seeing it, but only if I can get twelve of my mates to come, all dressed up in togas, sandals, and beards (fake if necessary). As a long-time fan of the King of Kings, I intend to show my appreciation for his work by attending his film in costume.

Hey - if it's good enough for Legolas, it's good enough for Jesus.
 
 
penitentvandal
13:50 / 03.03.04
On another topic, I find it amusing that people are expecting historical accuracy from Mel 'The Patriot' Gibson.

I mean, with him as director, we're lucky he hasn't decided to throw in a scene with the entire Sanhedrin pissing in Jesus' wounds...
 
 
Jack Fear
13:53 / 03.03.04
It'll be on the DVD.
 
 
grant
14:02 / 03.03.04
Old Scratch had a hand in post-production (second item down).

John Debney, who composed the music for The
Passion of the Christ,
says he did battle with Satan while scoring the
flick.

Debney claims that Satan's image kept appearing
on his computer
screen while he was trying to compose music. "The
first time it
happened, it scared me," he said. "Once I got
over the initial
shock of that, I learned to work around it and
learned to reboot
the computers and so I would start talking to
him. . . . The
computers froze for about the tenth time [one]
day and it was
about nine o'clock at night and so I got really
mad and I told
Satan to manifest himself and I said, "Let's go
out into the
parking lot and let's go." It was a seed change
in me. I knew
that this was war. I am not a physical person,
but I was really
angry on this occasion."
 
 
lolita nation
14:41 / 03.03.04
I am not a physical person....

I wonder was it the Satan from the movie?
 
 
FinderWolf
14:54 / 03.03.04
I want to know what happened when he and Satan threw down in the parking lot.
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
15:23 / 03.03.04
Ah the ultimate evil, having to reboot your computer. Actually that is quite annoying.

Just quickly a film has nothing whatsoever to do with historical accuracy all they provide is a veneer of authenticity based on the paradigm of the society they exist within. After all that right wing NRA fucker whose name escapes me was considered to authentic as Moses back in the day. Not to mention I completely fail to see how anything based on the bible could be considered historically accurate.
 
 
grant
15:39 / 03.03.04
Because the Bible is a collection of historical documents....
 
 
raelianautopsy
16:26 / 03.03.04
The Bible is not a collection of historical documents. It is a mythology that has been put in a historical context. It was written hundreds of years after the events were purported to take place. There is lots of important occult knowledge in the Bible but it is meant to be read in code by those in the know. And you would be surprised how much of Bible stories are just repeats of ancient mythology, including Jesus.

That being said, I'll repeat that making a movie that is simply a repition of the New Testemant Gospels is still an interesting idea for a film, even if the people that made it wrongly believe that it is a literal truth.
 
 
grant
18:05 / 03.03.04
Well, there's not a lot of on-the-spot reporting from events 2,000 to 5,000 years ago, so much of what's in the Bible is as good as it gets. In both testaments, also, biblical material is supported by other texts (Egyptian records of the captivity of the Israelites, Roman records of the occupation of Judea).
I mean, if you're going to eliminate historical documents because they're written from a religious or culturally limited perspective, you're basically eliminating history itself (or at least history before, say, the mid-1700s).

Also, there's some pretty reliable dating of the four gospels placing their writing at between 70 and 125 CE (and records of church fathers debating their relative merits by 190 CE), so "hundreds of years after" isn't really accurate.

Whether or not these are records of widely believed myths or a biography of a real person is an open question. At the time, there wasn't really a distinction between the two.

This is probably a discussion best held elsewhere, though.

Worth pointing out, on topic: Gibson's main criticism from the Christian camp is that his film isn't actually biblical -- some of it is based on the visions of an 18th century mystic nun. Not scriptural at all.
 
 
h3r
04:56 / 04.03.04
I dont know about Satan sightings, i think they only happened to John Debney coz he was away in ENgland recording the score.
We at the mix stage had no diabolical visitation, probably due to the glorious mass we had
herez the promised pic
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
06:49 / 04.03.04
Sorry I think my previous statement needs clarification. Grant you're absolutly right the bible (though we're into the difficult question of who's bible) is a historical source but that does not make the events described in it a historical factm but yes you're right this probably isn't the place for a history vs. myth vs. fiction discussion.

And Charlton Heston, I'm definitely becoming stupider.
 
 
raelianautopsy
00:53 / 05.03.04
This may not be the right place for this discussion but I need to get this off my back one last time.

First off the Old Testement was written hundreds of years after it took place. But the New Testement was written maybe only one hundred years after it took place. But the stories were usually placed in a real historical period.

But the main thing I want to say is- where the hell are Egyptian records that show the Israelites being held in captivity?! There is zero historical proof that the Hebrews were slaves of Egypt. They don't even have much idea who was the pharoah then. The Exodus story is the absolute best example of what I am talking about.

In fact, it is much more likely that the ancient Hebrews came from Egypt in the first place (no Abraham) and covered up their history with that fake story. See Ralph Ellis books. The story is symbolism.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
05:42 / 05.03.04
I saw the film tonight and didn't find it very entertaining. What was that movie where there was a 5 minute rape scene that people thought was controversial? It was like a 2 hr torture movie. If you're a big fan of christianity, I suppose you may like it more, just like if they came out with a 3 hr movie about Glen Danzig I'm sure I would dig it. But as a movie it wasn't very entertaining. Satan was cool and had me debating if I should shave off my eyebrows or not. Pilate was cool, I saw a play once which focused mostly around him.
 
 
Rage
08:33 / 05.03.04
I guess the whole universe is trying to interview Mel Gibson now. Yuck.

Actually heard that some skinheads were using this film as an excuse to push their propaganda. Why would a skinhead be seeing this movie in the first place? Maybe the rumor was bunk or something.

Had no intention of seeing this movie but now that all this controversy is exploding... well... it still sounds incredibly boring. Think it'll get banned and become an underground hit in christian circles? Lame lame.

Can you really be sure of how accurate any account of history is?
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
08:37 / 05.03.04
Word from the Big Man himself
 
 
FinderWolf
14:31 / 05.03.04
>> Ah the ultimate evil, having to reboot your computer. Actually that is quite annoying.

LOL! That's kind of what I thought. Does this mean that every time I have to reboot my computer, it's Satan's fault?
 
  

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