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Dizzy, Paranoid Weed Freakouts

  
  

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Jub
08:01 / 17.02.04
the panic attacks you would get on acid would make the thc panic seem rather mellow.

... a sound piece of reasoning. Try that Alex.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
12:19 / 17.02.04
Better yet, work up a vigorous crack habit. At least when Dr. Noidy comes calling you'll be schizophrenically deranged enough to NOT TAKE ANY SHIT OFF ANYONE

You can wade into that crowd of backstabbing, two-faced, muttering-behind-your-back, plotting and conspiring strangers and give 'em a double-barreled 12 gauge piece of your mind. Which, in it's highly fragmented state, should be no trouble at all.

Carry a large threatening knife as well. You know, for close encounters.
 
 
Billy Chang
20:35 / 03.03.04
Sounds to me like what William Gibson refers to as "Cannabis Dysphoria"... He talks a lot about it in "No Maps for These Territories".... He goes on about how he couldn't leave it alone, even though he freaked out every time. He claims almost every time he smoked was a real bad experience but he smoked every day for years, and couldn't figure out the compulsion. I had the same thing, and so have a lot of my friends.

By the way, what you said about skunk is absolutely correct. My brother works in a headshop.

Ignore Money$hot. He's obviously both ignorant and european. (And a complete a-hole to boot)
 
 
---
06:47 / 04.03.04
Money $hot, don't be so mean, and Billy Chang, don't be so stereotypical of us europeans, some of us are trying to do what's right, and Jack Frost, don't start a flamewar off because you might piss the mods off.

I don't want Hausing or Antimaximalising.
 
 
ibis the being
12:56 / 04.03.04
onemind, you're oddly reminding me of someone like a woman who says, "my boyfriend controls me and beats me and makes me feel like shit everyday, what do I do? but don't tell me to leave him, I don't want to and I can't, I love him."

the big difference is, your bag of pot doesn't have legs. WALK AWAY.
 
 
Nobody's girl
13:39 / 04.03.04
As one pothead to another, I salute you sir! However, I do have a cautionary tale to tell.

Someone I know has been smoking similar quantities for a similar period, as a result this person has suffered a psychotic breakdown. I mean like serious as shit paranoia, "there are cameras in my house watching my every move" psychotic. Now clearly the propensity for such a breakdown was present in this person before huge quantities of weed were ingested. But lets not fool ourselves, weed can exacerbate existing neurological and psychological problems in regular heavy usage.

The symptoms you described sound a little like anxiety problems, an adrenaline related panic response. Perhaps you have a tendency towards anxiety problems and the pot has worked to subdue this until now? I have anxiety problems and find that smoking up relieves this, but it's not addressing the issue merely removing the symptom. Like a painkiller relieving toothache but the rotten tooth is still the root cause. Addressing my anxiety issues is very hard and it can be seductive to ignore it all in a blissed out high.

Maybe I'm totally off the mark, but I would suggest examining why you smoke so you can be sure of your motives and eliminate possiblities like the one I outlined above.
 
 
r
19:47 / 04.03.04
OK... I had completely abandoned this thread, disheartened at all the ignorant responses, but I feel I have to clear the air on a couple of things:

1) I'll admit that I opened this thread with a bit of exaggeration, which was picked up on and run with by everyone else, who proceeded to blow the whole issue waaaaay out of proportion.

2) the freakouts aren't THAT bad... I just get really jittery, sometimes I feel faint, and yeah, sometimes I just have to leave wherever I am. More than anything they just interrupt the flow of my day.

3)I said I had been toking for a long time, which is true, but it was taken to mean that I smoke a hell of a lot of dope, which isn't true. I usually do a quick bong load first thing in the morning, and work on the computer tilll about 3. After that I'm working in the lab here until about ten every night. When I get out, I usually smoke a big healthy hooter (no tobacco) and do more work or else go out.

4)Who ever said I was blaming my parents for anything? Obviously I LOVE SMOKING DOPE or I wouldn't do it. I also wouldn't smoke fatties with my folks every time we get together, either.

5)I said I didn't want to hear any responses recomending that I stop smoking, not because *I don't want to hear it*, but because.. well duh.... it's a pretty damn obvious solution.

I think the way you all are teaming up and giving this thing the atmosphere of some sinister, abusive, (and ridiculous and infantile) narcanon meeting is a classic example of people looking for drama where there is none, and trying to create it for themselves.

And Monkey $not, you are one pathetic, angry, bored, ignorant loser. I would bet EVERYTHING I OWN that you are a fat middle-aged burnout piece of shit chronic masturbator. Nothing better to do than try to verbally abuse people 1000 miles away, who you don't even know (and who don't give half a maggot's anus what you have to say), on the web. Sad. Maybe you should smoke some weed and get yourself a life. Eat a dick..... .
BEEEEEATCH
 
 
r
19:57 / 04.03.04
....Oh, and Dizietsma, I agree with you completely. I know that I am one tense, high-strung dude. Always have been, and always have been uncomfortable around people (in schools, malls etc.) I would probably have the same freakout rate with or without weed, really.
It's a shame I don't have any time for well, uh.... a shrink or whatever. I have no time for anything these days, really. I literally have only just enough time to stay on top of all the shit I'm doing, sleep five hours a night, and eat something once or twice a day.
Come to think of it, maybe it's just a symptom of total physiological burnout from overworking myself....
Anyways.... props to those being helpful, and a big FAH-Q to all others.
peace.
 
 
r
20:00 / 04.03.04
one last thing... money shot. who you calling "child", BITCH? I'll fuckin' slap the teeth out your mouth when I see you.....
 
 
Mourne Kransky
20:13 / 04.03.04
And here we were thinking you had some kind of problem with smoking dope and becoming paranoid, as a great many do. Can't think what caused that impression and resulted in lots of people who've smoked more weed than you've lovingly fondled in your naive little hands answering your post with a measure of sincerity. But since you've got it all sorted, we can all go back to our lives which might or might not be controlled by obeisance to the Mighty Weed. It's always your choice. Why don't you stop whining and adapt?
 
 
r
21:20 / 04.03.04
Xoc you are soooo damn cool.
 
 
Ganesh
22:01 / 04.03.04
Could it be your dopamine receptors are asking you, ever so nicely, to give them a break?

I've got a problem too: whenever I stand naked in the rain, I get wet. Can anyone help me with this? Don't fucking tell me not to stand naked in the rain, because it's already occurred to me, and you're missing my point. Standing naked in the rain helps with my chronic dryness.

But how can I avoid getting wet?
 
 
trixr4kids
23:17 / 04.03.04
dizzy paranoid freakouts....keep a sense of humour,failing that get your moneys worth(you did buy it after all) and have a full scale delusional breakdown,no point in doin anything half hearted.
 
 
_Boboss
08:53 / 05.03.04
too weak to toke - some people just aren't cool enough for it, and judging from your 'i'll kick your head in i will' posts, you're one of them.
 
 
Ganesh
09:11 / 05.03.04
Some people's dopaminergic systems just aren't cool enough for it...
 
 
_Boboss
09:13 / 05.03.04
if i knew entirely what that meant, i'm sure i'd agree
 
 
Ganesh
09:21 / 05.03.04
Means some people, presumably by dint of having 'twitchy' dopamine receptors, are predisposed to become psychotic when they smoke dope - either immediately or over time. In other words, the increasingly frequent paranoid "freaking out" may be a harbinger of more permanent neurological changes to come.

If it were me I'd be tempted to cut down or even stop - but hey, what do I know?
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
09:37 / 05.03.04
Ganesh, I've said it before, and I'll say it again, - you crack me up.

r, or onem1nd, I went for the jugular and I seem to have rattled your cage. Calm down, dear, its only an internet messageboard. Sheesh, skunk (actually mostly Hawaiin Indica's and various Haze strains, and often Northern Lights as its so well known round these parts, not at all 'anything green' that all us dumb Europeans call skunk - chah, the number of times I been scammed with seaweed and catnip, ferchrissakes, and that made me paranoid I can tell ya) mostly makes me serene and friendly and not at all likely to 'kick' anyones 'teeth out, beeeatch'...on the other hand, when I'm not tokin', I can be a right sarcastic and cruel bastard.

Sorry.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
09:43 / 05.03.04
(btw, if you PM I'll send you a PO Box number to forward EVERYTHING YOU OWN - is that okay? Or were you, you know, joking?) Hey, you were right about the masturbation though. Tell you what, you can keep your dope box and bong, yeah?

Stop it, Money, play with someone your own age
 
 
Ganesh
09:54 / 05.03.04
Tchyeah, you got me! Psychotic breakdown's nowt to worry about. It was a JOKE!!!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:31 / 05.03.04
I like to drink alcohol. Often when I do this I become lairy, lechy and disreputable, sometimes even incoherent and unable to stand up. Can someone give me some advice? Don't say "drink less alcohol or none at all", DUH THAT'S OBVIOUS!
 
 
Nobody's girl
11:18 / 05.03.04
I'm thinking Bill Hick's comment about "compassion not condemnation" is pertinent at this point.
 
 
Ganesh
11:28 / 05.03.04
I'm thinking 'useful advice' rather than 'empty agreement'.
 
 
Nobody's girl
12:09 / 05.03.04
There's a difference between giving advice and shouting someone down. How on earth can you help someone if you're calling them names, making judgement calls?

From my own experience when someone opens up about a problem and people are harsh to them not only will that stop them listening to any advice you have, however good it may be, but it will hurt them.
 
 
Ganesh
12:18 / 05.03.04
And from my experience, continuing to smoke large amounts of weed in the face of increasingly frequent, lengthy and/or severe bouts of paranoia is kinda asking for trouble - of the psychiatric variety.

Apologies if I'm shouting this too loud or harshly for your tender lug'oles, dear.
 
 
w1rebaby
12:24 / 05.03.04
I was going to make some sarcastic bandwagon remark like "I find if I eat three pizzas a day I get fat, what can I do?" except that I then remembered that there's a massive industry devoted to answering that same question with anything apart from "don't eat pizzas". And that made me sad, so I didn't post.

Similarly "doctor, I hate my job and have no friends, can you give me a pill for it?" But that's another issue.

None of this is very constructive, I realise.
 
 
Pooka
21:02 / 05.03.04
r,

Using the reality-model I am currently interested in (Leary's circuits), I'd say you're having a Negative Fifth-Circuit / Dark Night of the Soul / Chapel Perilous style experience when on weed. You've -had- great hedonic experiences with the stuff, but the effect it has on you is not easily controlled. If you're not already involved in a mystic group (be it Pagan, Hermetic, Druidic, Yoga, or anything else) I might reccommend checking it out - not for the Dogma, but because most forms of initiation revolve around overcoming fear. As what you're experiencing is almost certainly some form of anxiety, such practices may start to aid with them. (Just my opinion, BTW)
Condemnation aimed towards an anxiety sufferer is only going to make his condition worse. Whenever I experience an anxiety attack I'm telling myself mentally "This is your own fault, just get over it" and if that fear is confirmed (ie by someone being derisive about my inability to properly function) it just makes everything that much worse.
Recently whenever I have an attack, I try to stop for a moment and do the tantric "Breath of Fire" exercise. However, as it involves near-hyperventilation, I'd excercise caution. Your physiological effects sound more extreme than mine. Give it a go... if you need me to tell you how to perform it, just ask. I'll stop eating up forum-space now...

Pooka
 
 
Ganesh
21:19 / 05.03.04
Condemnation aimed towards an anxiety sufferer is only going to make his condition worse. Whenever I experience an anxiety attack I'm telling myself mentally "This is your own fault, just get over it" and if that fear is confirmed (ie by someone being derisive about my inability to properly function) it just makes everything that much worse.

Depends a little on context, though, doesn't it? If someone is in the midst of a good-going panic attack and you're standing in front of them screaming 'THIS IS YOUR FAULT, FUCKER!' then yes, that's not going to help. If, on the other hand, someone is not in the acute situation but is posting online 'I get paranoid when I smoke lots of weed' and, essentially, you're posting back 'smoke less weed', then a) chances are, the unpleasant symptoms are their fault, and b) it's advice - good advice.

That, as far as I can see, seems to be the gist of the "condemnation" here. Many of us have pointed up the absurdity of saying 'X causes Y, but don't tell me to stop or reduce X'. That's because, if you'll excuse a little 'therapeutic directness', it's fucking absurd.
 
 
---
22:07 / 05.03.04
Words words, many long meaningfull words........i haven't read anything. It looks complicated, all those symbols, and my head spins...............
 
 
Pooka
22:20 / 05.03.04
Great advice, Ganesh.

That's like yelling at an AIDS sufferer for getting the disease. He is -ill- and bitching/moaning/carping at him is going to do no good. He heard your advice, but you and others keep treating him like an idiot. He's not an idiot (as far as I know) but he IS psychologically addicted. Telling him to stop is as the utmost in ignorance, not to mention pointless.

Personally, I think quitting cannabis -won't- solve this problem, although it might help. I think perhaps r has a deep-seated anxiety or other problem that his body/neurology is trying desperately to bring to his attention. Quitting pot will merely allow him to live oblivious of something that may need addressing.

Pooka
 
 
Tom Coates
22:33 / 05.03.04
Test
 
 
Pooka
23:34 / 05.03.04
One, Two...

Sibilance...
 
 
Ganesh
01:01 / 06.03.04
That's like yelling at an AIDS sufferer for getting the disease.

No, it's not. AIDS is the (as-yet) irreversible consequence of contracting HIV, which is possible via a number of routes. Cannabis-induced paranoia is the (as-yet) reversible consequence of smoking too much cannabis. In the first example, advice (or "yelling" as you put it) is largely pointless; in the second, it may well influence the outcome.

Shit analogy, Pooka.

He is -ill- and bitching/moaning/carping at him is going to do no good.

Matter of opinion, depending on how one conceptualises 'illness' and its attendant rights/responsibilities. Also depends somewhat on whether one equates advice with "bitching/moaning/carping".

He heard your advice, but you and others keep treating him like an idiot. He's not an idiot (as far as I know) but he IS psychologically addicted. Telling him to stop is as the utmost in ignorance, not to mention pointless.

The tone of his original post suggests he is rather denying the possibility that reducing (and you'll note I've emphasised reducing rather than stopping) his cannabis intake would have any serious bearing on the matter. Seems important, therefore, to indicate that this is not the case. Telling him he must cut down seems pretty much the only way to tell him he must cut down - unless you can think of a less 'ignorant' way to communicate this?

Personally, I think quitting cannabis -won't- solve this problem, although it might help. I think perhaps r has a deep-seated anxiety or other problem that his body/neurology is trying desperately to bring to his attention. Quitting pot will merely allow him to live oblivious of something that may need addressing.

You're entitled to your opinion - even if I think your opinion is cack. While I agree that most individuals who smoke cannabis heavily and constantly do so for "deep-seated anxiety" or other problems, my concern here (as a psychiatrist) is not so much the anxiety as the paranoia. The story he tells is depressingly familiar to me: cannabis-user smokes increasing amounts over the years; develops bouts of paranoia which gradually become more intense and/or constant; continues to smoke large amounts regardless. I suspect the problem his "body/neurology" is flagging up is the possibility of permanent psychosis - and, believe me, this is a very real possibility. The root causes of anxiety can be traced and treated, through medical or non-medical means. Psychosis is a different ball-game altogether.

I'm not suggesting "quitting pot". I'm suggesting reducing it to a level where it no longer induces paranoia.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
04:06 / 06.03.04
Have you tried crack ? I did a while ago, ( at least a couple of months, ) and the thing is actually, it's not all that bad. In fact I did quite enjoy it, no cravings since. For obvious reasons I'll never do it again, but the interesting thing about that stuff is, it's virtually impossible to feel nervy or paranoid, so... I dunno man, you might wanna give it a go.

Just the once.

So there you go anyway, positive advice.
 
 
Pooka
13:40 / 06.03.04
Ganesh - my analogy was intended to highlight the fact that he is suffering from something that is 1) of his own making and 2) considered socially unacceptable. Your response, especially the caveat "which is possible via a number of routes" indicates that some routes are avoidable (and they are) while others are a quirk of coincidence. However this easily leads into the Good AIDS / Bad AIDS fallacy - the idea that people whom contract it through sexual activity or dirty needles are deserving of less compassion (as it is through their own actions that it is contracted) than those who recieve it through a blood transplant or organ donation, etc. I assume you don't feel that way about AIDS victims, but you see my point. And, if nothing else, preaching or advising in a "one-up" tone (as if you have the moral high ground) will simply cause someone to tune you out unless they are socialized to believe you ARE in a "one-up" position. However, this is a forum, and neither "r" nor I know you from Adam, so that tone will be of little use. In addition, offering advice (even though I understand that you were simply trying to help) that someone has specifically indicated for you -not- to do -IS- pointless, because they are NOT going to listen to you in that situation. At least I wouldn't, and nor, I believe, would most other people in a similar situation.
And, honestly, I agree with you that he should definately try to cut back on the cannabis, if not quit altogether. I only disagree with the way you put forth that opinion. Psychosis brought on by overuse of pot is a tough thing to go through, for the sufferer AND their friends and family, and if your advice had moved him to quit, I'd have been behind you all the way.

...cack? Huh. Dreck would have sounded better.

Pooka
 
  

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