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Angel Season 5 UK

 
  

Page: 12(3)4

 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
17:55 / 03.04.04
I am bored with the weekly 'Oh no! we're working for an evil company! maybe they're corrupting us' thing. I don't know where this is going to go particularly, I would have preferred more use of characters like Andrew and Giles (yeah, right), all of Angels' old friends and the Watchers Council deciding the Fang Gang had turned evil and setting up to oppose them. Do you think we'll get a 'surprise' that the Powers That Be and the Senior Partners are one and the same, or am I expecting too much?
 
 
Mike-O
18:48 / 03.04.04
That would be very cool, actually... not sure how much sense it would make, but none the less...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:53 / 11.04.04
Despite the fact that it was filler and served to further contradict what we thought we knew about Angel's pre-Whistler 20th century life, I just wanted to express my joy with the best thing about the most recent episode - the Nosferatu rip-off, 'Prince of Lies':

"This bathysphere is perplexing!"
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
08:15 / 12.04.04
It doesn't really contradict anything. In Buffy we saw Angel post-getting his soul back and then in (what was then) modern-day LA. Whistler said he'd been watching Angel for some time and that Angel had been like that for a while. None of the other flashbacks have contradicted the idea from the second episode of series 2 of Angel, that Angel was managing some sort of living among human society until nearly getting lynched in that hotel under the influence of the demon inhabiting it. It just means we have to reevaluate what Whistler said. He might have tried to imply he knew all about Angel's existence from the Powers That Be, instead he's just a demon who got told a few things and tried to make himself out to be more important than he was. After all, when Angel moved to LA the Powers sent Doyle, not Whistler, to see him didn't they? (Yes, I know that IRL Joss was writing Whistler back in but the actor wasn't available so he changed the name to Doyle but that's irrelevent)
 
 
Gary Lactus
21:18 / 13.04.04
Best in show. Boringanuz's best acting thus far. Did anyone else find puppets scary as a kid?
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
11:31 / 14.04.04
Yes. Waaargh. Especially many puppets holding me down while one puppet with a knife sat astride my chest and made throat-slitting gestures. Not that that happened more than twice.

Last night's episode was so much fun, I completely forgave it for being a filler. And I liked the fact that puppet Angel beat the shit out of Spike, who is fast outliving any function to the plot at all.
 
 
Spaniel
12:16 / 14.04.04
Filler? Well, whilst it wasn't plot, plot, plot, we did get: Gunn's pact with the devil, Fred and Wesley's get together and Angel pulling a bird.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:57 / 12.05.04
So it's interesting that nobody in the UK has really been compelled to comment on the Fred/Illyria thing - just to summarise my take on it: I'm really glad they're exploring the question "to what extent is someone who has all your memories but a demon instead of a soul still you?", but Fred's death itself really annoyed me. Because Fred herself has always been hamstrung as a character whenever she's written as this kind of sweet radiant kooky child-woman genius - the only time she ever got interesting was season 4, when like everyone else she became a lot more grey. However, in the episode in which she dies, and the one after, we hear nothing but how perfect and blameless and pure Fred was - so of course, she's the one who has to die horribly. And then be replaced by an evil dominating woman who wears clinging rubber. Hmmm. Yeah. No. I think everyone needs to remember that Fred's death is at least partly her own fault: she saw the big shiny lab when they took the tour of Wolfram & Hart, and decided then and there that she wanted the job. Then something nasty and evil in the nasty evil law firm's lab killed her. Duh.

They better hurry up and kill some male characters though, that's all I can say.

However, 'Origin' knocked the entire season so far into a cocked hat. I love that kid. I love the fucked-up way Wes loses faith in Angel and that this results in him remembering that he's already betrayed Angel. I love the fact that, in a complete reversal of how he was alienated from them in season 4 (and the end of 3), Connor is incredibly well-adjusted and un-fucked-up compared to Angel and his crew - and that this doesn't seem to change once he gets his memories back. Great, great performance from Vincent Karthesier: that look he gives Sarjahn after throwing him off, so you know he's back, the sadness when he's acting like he doesn't remember and says "I don't think this fighting thing is for me" (which references his speech to comatose Cordy in the church last season, which I loved), and of course that last line... He knows. And he's okay with it. Kinda.

Awesome stuff. I want a Connor spin-off, but I guess I'll have to settle for the fact that he's in the last episode.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
20:36 / 12.05.04
How do you know this?! How?!

Yeah, the Fred/Illyria thing is not the best, conceptually... but, as with many ideas in Angel which don't seem to work on paper, the execution has been great, so I can forgive it being a little shonky in theory. She may be wearing skintight rubber, but Amy Acker's performance has been outstanding, and I love the fact that they didn't just decide to destroy/entomb/deus ex her away, which is what Buffy would have tried to do. Instead they have to live with her presence, and try to make sense of it. Typical Angel, where all the decisions are difficult ones, and the only area is grey, and no one gets to be right all the fucking time.

And Vincent Karthesier (sp?) - wow. I always loved the character (another example of a shitty idea on paper being woven into a classic character), but this took the cake. The way, for a second, that he took on old-Connor's hooded eyes and hunched, paranoid posture when saying that final line to Angel, and again by the lift, old-Connor's cynical little half-smile fleetingly appears just before he leaves. Perfectly done, I loved it.
 
 
The Natural Way
12:59 / 15.05.04
Thought it was really good, too. Fraely, SteVD and Gambit didn't enjoy as much, but they were wrong. Solid emotional core to it, the last episode.

The one before was ace as well. Kids with machine guns rule!

Do like Ill, but she does repeat herself a bit. If I see another scene with her going on about being trapped, I think I'll scream.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:59 / 18.05.04
So, is there anyone in Angel's team who hasn't betrayed the others for what they thought were good reasons only for it to backfire and end with them getting hurt and ostracised by the rest of the team? I don't understand particulary why there's the whole 'medallion-forgetting' deal going on, I would have thought the senior partners would have wanted their prisoners to be fully aware as to why they were being tortured.

I'm disappointed about the whole 'Fred Mark II in tight leather gear' stuff. And it has basically been that all the female characters in Angel have died, Cordy, Fred, Lilah, Darla twice... the worst that's happened to the men are a couple of stabbings. I was very discouraged by her plea to Wesley to teach her what it meant to be human, but at least after that it was treated sensibly, by Wes getting drunk and swearing at her.

And the episode with Connor was the first time I've cared for the character since... ever. Ever since he came back from Pylia or wherever it was he's been the greatest disincentive to watch the show, not the fault of the actor but that 'cliched adolescent behaviour' is not my favourite, it's why I don't watch 'Dawsons Creek'. By the end of the season when he's threatening to blow himself up I was shouting "Do it! Do it!" but in this episode he was handled with a previously unknown lightness of touch and the end, when he knows his past but is no longer held captive by it and his own mental failings, almost made up for the rest. Now let's never speak of him again.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:16 / 18.05.04
I think everyone needs to remember that Fred's death is at least partly her own fault

Well I think that we can agree that we wish Fred had been replaced by newFred sooner. Particularly since the actress does tight leather a lot better than cotton T-shirts.

And Yay Connor, I love Connor, he makes the world go round and newtwomemoriesConnor is way brighter than old moany Connor.

And in addition, Shut Up Flyboy and stop hating on Fred. Yeah she's goofy and in a skinny, long necked kind of way but they've killed off all the central women which is fucking screwy. (Also Fred is nice.) I sense a little misogyny- why does Whedon need one show about strong girls and another about strong boys? What a weirdo.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:37 / 18.05.04
Invoking Dawson's Creek when discussing (seasons 3 & 4) Connor suggests you've never watched one or the other, Our Lady. How often did Joey Potter engage in a spot of the old sociopathic ultraviolence as a result of deep-seated abandonment issues and being raised by a fanatic?

Agree though that the pocket torture dimension is needlessly complicated. In fact, nothing involving Lyndsey this season makes any sense whatsoever, but we can discuss that in a few weeks time.

Ox:

If I see another scene with her going on about being trapped, I think I'll scream.

I would scream, but this world is too small for me to open my jaws. Anyway, mucho Illyria talky time tonight, but look out for it being sent up a bit too.

What would the spidery demon say?

"You is talky meat!"
 
 
_Boboss
15:40 / 18.05.04
abandonment issues/raised by fanatics - only diff is how far the bottom lips were pouting. connor pouts worse than all the dawsons bitches, even pacey's beard. a bit of the old uv while shuffling about like the cure's last fan does not an annoying teen unmake. even connor hates old connor, as we saw last week.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:41 / 18.05.04
I've never watched an episode of DC, I'm merely using the patented Firewave approved method of talking about things I know nothing about. Or perhaps I was bringing it up because I was under the misapprehension that it was a pointless show where 30-something actors play teenagers for whom every hour brings a new crisis and after a year it'a all horribly incestuous.

I think, though I can't be sure, on the horny old problem of gender relationships in the show, that none of the female characters have ever been tortured, except for that woman that Wesley had locked in his closet, though I'm not sure whether it was clear as to whether Wesley was smacking her around at all. It's only the men who've had that, though in the case of Angel and Spike it was that handy vampiric regeneration factor that probably made them candidates, real humans breaking more easily and all.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
20:22 / 18.05.04
On the whole female characters being killed over male characters... Same was true of Buffy. Tara, Buffy (twice), Joyce, Kendra, countless female slayerettes... interesting...

With Angel, it's less a scheme, more coincidence that seems to have been made a lot of. Cordelia was a character written out of the show well before she actually died, more due to outside politics than because it was a major development in Angel itself. Lilah was the self-confessed 'bad guy', and I'm fairly surprised that it didn't happen earlier. Same with Darla, really, although she was killed in Buffy first. Neither were major characters - they were recurring villains and plot devices. Fred? That's one, definitely. Not sure that theory really holds up, to be honest.

Got to say I'm starting to go for Flyboy's 'unconsciously racist approach to Gunn' complaint, though. Thought they were handling it differently, but Charlie pretty much confirmed Fly's idea himself a few weeks back. Uncomfortable prickly feelings. Hmmm. When White Men Write Black Men In Genre TV...
 
 
Seth
00:18 / 19.05.04
When White Men Write Black Men In Genre TV...

And thankfully DS9 is yet again the exception that proves the rule. One of the strongest black casts on telly.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:45 / 19.05.04
I don't know, Jack, funnily enough my whole view of it has shifted since I watched the season 4 episode where Angelus taunts Gunn (I think it's 'Calvary' rather than 'Soulless'), saying something along the lines of: "You know what I like about you? You know your limits. You don't try to... actualise your potential." This is in the context of Gunn worrying that he's going to lose Fred to Wesley (oh, the ironies), and a large part of his insecurity stems from the suspicion that those two have more in common because they're both bookworms. Gunn isn't stupid - he's aguably smarter than Angel (but then who isn't?) - but he's less educated than Wesley and this annoys and worries him more than he admits (see 'Spin The Bottle' for further evidence of how Gunn feels about English public schoolboys, deep down). The rest of the gang are as obliviously insensitive to this as ever: Fred even calls him "the muscle" of the group back in one of her most mawkish speaches, which I doubt was written with the intention of showing her up as a patronising nit, but works well like that in retrospect. No wonder he's happy to be rid of them for a whole episode which he spends wearing a suit (ding!) and being suave and slightly morally iffy (ding!) with Gwen later on ('Players').

Seen in this light, his storyline becomes more about class envy, which is emphasised by the fact that W&H put stuff like Gilbert & Sullivan tunes in his head as well as law info. Yes, some of it is heavy handed (he goes back to wearing casuals when he's doing/done his penance, because he's discovered who he is again, yada yada), but overall it's much better done and less racially suspect than previous Gunn storylines ("black men will do anything for a nice car!", "gangs are bad!" - actually the story with Gunn's old gang going bad so as to handily relieve him of any divided loyalties has to be one of the crassest plots this show has produced).

Have I mentioned that the overall plot for season 5. Makes. No. Sense. Whatsoever? I think we should talk about this soon.
 
 
Gary Lactus
10:49 / 19.05.04
I liked this last episode well enough. I had my suspicions that Blue Fred was pregnant, but surely they wouldn't try that trick again. "I am a monster but my baby is so fragile and precious that I'm learning about how great humanity is"

The special gun which Wes turned up was a pretty weak plot device. If that thing was knocking around then why didn't they neuter Blue Fred earlier?

Still, all in all I'm enjoying Angel more than ever.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
14:15 / 19.05.04
A good episode last night, just wish Angel was able to make up his mind. A few weeks ago it was all about how if the team acted in a good way then it didn't matter that they were working in an evil company, now they seem to be starting to think it's time to get all mauve and evil again.

"The Wolf, The Ram, The Hart." Time travel shows are by their nature silly, but that was quite a nice one. And now blue-leather-Fred is handily depowered too.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
12:00 / 02.06.04
Well, the penultimate episode last night sure was exciting wasn't it? I liked the way various elements had been brought back to tie things together, Cordy giving Angel a vision, the guy who wanted Connor to kill Sahjean and the Fell Brethren and that baby, Lindsey, as well as the death of Fred and the depowering of blue-goddess-lady. Maybe that was set-up by W&H so she couldn't hurt them? Presuming that they don't all die at the end of the series I assume it would have to end with them leaving W&H, which would be a shame as I think working there has turned out better stories than I expected at the end of last year. Maybe they will be going out on a high. I'm just confused as to how the gang can kill off all these guys without the Senior Partners getting a touch suspicious after the first two people get whacked...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
12:30 / 02.06.04
I kind of feel like there hasn't been enough build up. That was a revealing episode but it revealed something that we weren't really wondering about and it accelerated a bit too quickly, sure the menfolk were right to be suspicious but 1)they jumped to conclusions a bit too fast and 2)it would have made more sense if it had been seen through the eyes of evil contact to the senior partners or someone (anyone) else. This series hasn't focused on the characters enough, they haven't personalised the collapse of everyone- Wesley perhaps but Gunn's just been totally out of character for the whole season and I'm not impressed.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:17 / 02.06.04
I kind of feel like there hasn't been enough build up.

Amen to that - suddenly we find out about the Circle of Dry Blackthorn? We ponder whether Angel has in fact been corrupted? Except that the scene with Nina makes it a total no-brainer?

I like the high stakes, and I like the idea that Angel and co. have a chance to make a real difference to the balance of power only *because* they are at W&H, but... but it feels like a hurried wrap of something that wasn't expecting to get cancelled. Like so much of this series, it seemed to have lots of nice lines, nice points and nice ideas without making actual *sense* in the way that, say, Season 4 made sense.

Incidentally, if I were a friend of the Spampire Lestat, I'd probably hesitate before signing up for any of those brilliant plans. I mean, considering the Drogyn gambit....
 
 
Warewullf
13:21 / 02.06.04
When Angel said he was going to take down every memeber of the Black Thorn, I thought "Yay! A few episodes of the gang taking down the most evil bastards on the planet, one at a time!"

But next week is the last episode.

So they're going to do it all at once.

Hrmph.

Oh, does anyone else get that feeling that Lorne isn't going to survive the series? (DON'T spoil it if you know for certain!!) He's had feck all to to this season and it just seems like he's come to the end of his story.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:39 / 02.06.04
Oh, God, and one of the final episodes was "The Girl in Question". What did that tell us? It told us that Wesley is all messed up about Fred, and that Angel and Spike are idiots. That's a scene! In fact, that's almost every scene! Not a whole episode!
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
11:23 / 03.06.04
In point of fact, reductio boy, it tells us that Wesley's 'upset' over Fred , and that Illyria's is increasingly being motivated by a confusing (to her) blend of a desire to continue her power games with Wes and a desire, completely out of left-field, to actually help him because he needs it. You know, thereby furthering the dynamic of their weirdly co-dependent relationship. And stuff.

As regards the A plot, it resolves a thread that's been left hanging for too long - namely, What To Do About Buffy? They couldn't get Gellar to actually appear (too busy making straight-to-DVD movies) in anything apart from the final episode, and decided that they didn't want her presence unbalancing that. Basically, since Spike, and to a lesser extent, Angel, have been mooning over the woman without anything to show for it for far too long, and since an end to the Buffyverse without some nod to resolving that situation would be a glaring oversight, they set up a comedy episode that showed them stumbling over their own feet after her (as they have been emotionally for the last several years), only to find that she's moved on, left them behind, and that they're left with either moving on too or continuing to act as her comic-relief ex-boyfriends. As a second-choice episode plot (their first choice having Buffy actually appear rather than just her hair - again), I think it's actually perfectly reasonable, certainly conceptually...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:56 / 03.06.04
My problems with 'The Girl In Question' would be:

1) The subplot and the plot clash horribly in tone, unless you assume that "the Burkles think this is their lovely daughter, when it's actually the monster that ate her soul!" is supposed to be funny. Now, I'm fully aware that in the past this show has married comedy and tragedy/horror very well. It can be done. Just not like this. If we were supposed to feel very very sad when Fred died, we should be appalled by Illyria saying "Absotively!" - and it is unbelievably jarring to then cut to the most slapstick comedy, the kind of comedy that requires people to be out of character and forget their own abilities - Angel and Spike chase a car on a scooter, ha ha - no.

2) Why has nobody told the Burkles that Freddy's dead? Wasn't that her dying request to Wesley? Argh!

3) Let's forget that it's the third-to-last episode ever. Let's say it's okay and even daring to stick a comedy episode in at this stage. We ended the previous episoe on a dramatic "Angel gave a baby to the demon cult! He's been corrupted? Or has he?" note. Now, we have Angel being the opposite of grey and ambiguous and sinister. Now he is a bumbling dolt. Which okay, he has been in the past on occasion, certainly. It's just... now is not the time.

4) For a comedy episode, it just wasn't that funny. Okay, the bit where they ask the demon if he's in love with the Immortal and he says "No. No. No. No. No. No. Well, yes." - funny. Spike and Dru in black and white saying "Ciao" - funny. But endless bumbling and slapstick and 'funny' jackets and time-killing repetition - not funny. And look, I don't think either of those guys are the smartest guys in the world, but even they - especially their previous evil flashback selves - would not waste time saying things like "Are you sure there's nothing under 'blood vengeange'?" to a bouncer. They're a bit dim, not actually retarded.

5) Anyone's who's paid attention knows that Angel is actually over Buffy but gets worked up about her when he fights with Spike, and that Spike knows it won't work for him to go chasing after Buffy, but gets worked up etc... We don't need this demonstrated again and again and again.

Overall, far too reminiscent of Buffy Season 6 (wafer thing concept stretched out interminably to the length of an episode, characters made dumb and/or unsympathetic, awkward mix of broad humour and bleakness). Maybe they made this episode to console some of us about the show's cancellation...

Still, not much wrong with 'Power Play' as far as I'm concerned. Sure, the gang are too quick to distrust Angel, but they're all pretty messed-up by this point, so I can buy it. And that last speech actually really worked. Just one quibble:

Lindsey's. Plan. Made. No. Sense.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:18 / 03.06.04
Yes, but it was shit. There was no need for it to happen. Angel managed to deal with Buffy dying and coming back from the dead in the space between two episodes with no trouble and no need for a joke episode.

For starters, Angel *was* over Buffy. There was a confused moment at the end of Buffy 7.22 when a combination of hormones and bad writing had him sniffing after her again, but in general he had already *got* closure, and decided to become emotionally useful again (5.14), shown by him dating Nina, and before that by him falling in love with Cordelia. Buffy was an ex-partner that he was always going to be fond of (after all, she was barring retcon his "first", in the sense of his first girlfriend after the reensouling - the icky age difference between him and Buffy being counterbalanced by the fact that he is himself deeply emotionally insecure and immature at that point...), but to have him suddenly mooning after her seems unnecessarily plot-driven, especially as he is at this point dating another woman. For that matter, Spike came to terms with the basic unhealthiness of his relationship with Buffy in 7.22 *as well* - the two competing over who is a champion, who will shanshu, all that, makes perfect sense, but to have them competing over *Buffy*? It's silly. Spike could perfectly well have addressed whatever dangling Buffy plot there was at the end of 5.9, no worries ... Spike is essentially emotionally adolescent, but we didn't have to devote most of an episode to finding that out. We already know.

The B plot - well, I take your point, but again I don't think it needed that much time. It also didn't need the Brian Rix farce treatment, or the revelation, in the interests thereof, that Wesley had in the presumaby several weeks between the discovery that Fred was dead, dead, dead, unrecoverably dead and the arrival of the Burkles, not bothered to call them up, despite this being Fred's *last wish* (5.15). This is utterly out of character for a man obsessed with duty, and again makes a character we are meant to like and sympathise with look like a complete rat bastard for no better reason than the dictates of the plot. We could not have discovered that Fred had the power to turn herself into Fred, and that this fucks Wesley up, in a more generally useful episode that didn't alienate you from the characters just before the season finalé. All the relevant stuff could have happened in a better episode, is all I'm saying.

(And DON'T SPOIL THE FINAL EPISODE! Including who is or is not in it...)
 
 
Bear
12:36 / 03.06.04
Agreed that the episode was a bit shit, I watched the last 5 in the space of 2 days and it killed the mood slightly. So was this the episode just shown on Sky? You have 2 more to go right?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:36 / 03.06.04
Oops. Took the words right out of my mouth.

I *think* that the longhand of Lindsey's plan was probably something like "By killing Angel, I will demonstrate my power and stop Wolfram and Hart being used for good. Spike will play out the vampire with a soul's part in the Shanshu prophecy, and so the senior partners will not mind that I have killed Angel, as they would have previously, as Spike is far more likely to be manipulated or tricked into serving their ends. I will have destroyed a champion for good. Somewhere along the way, I will also kill Eve. Thus, I will get back in with the Senior Partners *and* become eligible for the Circle of Dry Blackthorn."

It's a bit of a reach, though.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:28 / 03.06.04
Okay, but that relies on the following fanwank: the Amulet given to Angel by Lilah at the end of season 4 has the power to close the Hellmouth (we assume permanently, and in the process fucking up the First Evil permanently, but we are never told this because the Buffy finale is wank). This is presumably in the Senior Partners' interest because they are a rival big bad to the First Evil - after all, they both claim to be essentially the same thing, which can't be possible. In the process, the Amulet genie-lamps the wearer (which looks and feels like being incinerated) until it is returned to the W&H LA office (and exposed to oxygen?), at which point it releases the wearer in the form of a non-corporeal being bound to that location, until such point as the being can be re-corporealised (whew). Oh, and while the wearer is non-corporeal they are also either under the illusion that they are in danger of being sucked into hell, or actually in danger of the same.

W&H presumably intend it to be Angel who meets this fate, but instead, it's Spike. Lindsey somehow knows all about this, possibly because he's already shagging Eve who is already a W&H lackey. So he goes to the Sunnydale crater, digs up the Amulet, and mails it to Angel. Then he mails a spell to Spike that makes him corporeal again, because he's a fucking thaumaturge or something now.

His plan after that seems to be quite flexible. He would have liked Spike to kill Angel, but he then bothers to set Spike up as the new dark avenger in town whilst undermining Angel's confidence and his relationship with the gang. At one point we are told that he is trying to make the Senior Partners think they "backed the wrong horse" - but does this mean that the Partners will choose Spike instead, or Lindsey? And did Lindsey plan to betray the Black Thorn once he got in, or not. Maybe even he doesn't know that...

I dunno, amazingly none of all this directly contradicts itself as far as I can see, but you have to join up so many dots yourself, it makes New X-Men seem like... two dots with a line between them.

Plus, it still doesn't explain those #@!%!ing androids.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:25 / 03.06.04
How about they're nothing to do with W&H, nothing to do with Angel and something to do with Wesley and the resources he has at his disposal? I imagine there's a good story that could be written about what Rupert is currently getting up to in England where there's presumerably some preternatural power vacuum left by the First Evil taking out the Watchers Council (unless you want to pull the X-Men Gambit and suddenly announce that actually all the Watchers were dug out alive from under the rubble or indeed were mostly in a different country when the First Evil killed a few of them).

Yes, I was shocked to find out next week is the last episode of the series, especially when I thought it started the same week or the week after Enterprise, which has had at least one week where two episodes were shown back to back, and that's finishing next week too.

I liked the Angel and Spike in Italy story, though less so now I see it's the third episode from the end of the series. And of course it's so good to see that 'gay friendly' BtVS doesn't seem to have found Andrew a boyfriend. The only real remaining plot thread for next week is whether the gang are going to find out that Angel killed that keeper bloke, as he deliberately skated over that this week.

And who's going to die? Lorne doesn't really have a proper personal stake in this, which might mean he'll be killed for sentimental value. Gunn might sacrifice himself as full penance for helping to kill Fred, Wesley might go because he's still on the verge after Fred died, bluehair might go because of general indifference, and Angel or Spike might Shanshu if Joss is really sure there will never be another series.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:39 / 03.06.04
And of course it's so good to see that 'gay friendly' BtVS doesn't seem to have found Andrew a boyfriend.

Oh, yeah. That was irksome.

"You have to change. I have. I used to be sexually ambiguous guy, but now I've grown out of it."

Wankers.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
18:21 / 03.06.04
No, sorry, I reckon that the fact that Andrew walks out with *two* improbably hot babes merely confirms his gayness/fagbanglism.

See, *one* hot babe means a sexy date and predictable end-of-night het shagging. *Two* is a girls' night out. The change Andrew refers to is from being drippy geekboy virgin gay character to life'n'soul of the party GBF.

It's a confidence thang!
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
11:51 / 04.06.04
I agree.

I also agree about Lindsay's plan mekking no sense. Of course, this is what you get when your show is cancelled half-way through and you've got plotting and budgetting up the wazoo until the end. The last couple of episodes have been obvious revamps and rewrites, and I think from the way things were set up that Lindsay was supposed to have a more 'key' role in the season... of course, that's all irrelevant now.

I quite liked 'The Girl In Question', though. Poor placing, maybe, but they've always placed comedy a plots next to tragic/sad B plots, or vice versa, and this is no different. Sterling slapstick work again.

And Angel OVER Buffy? Since when has Angel 'got over' anything?! Oh dear. And you were doing so well. The guy's one consistent quality is the ability to brood over the past and his regrets for, occasionally, decades, and you think a quick decision to be 'over' Buffy is going to take? Dudes, my collective dudes. You have to remember that Angel agonises over everything he blames himself for. And he blames himself for EVERYTHING. He holds himself responsible for Connor's fucked-up childhood, for fuck's sake, which can clearly be seen to be Jasmine/Holtz/Wesley/Sahjan's fault, collectively speaking. He doesn't act like you and me after we break up with people. He had a serious problem with the idea of the Buffy and Spike relationship completely out of proportion to the 'concerned ex' position. His rivalry with Spike goes beyond shanshu and some flirty shoving around for status when they were evil, and the Buffy question is thrown right in there into the mix to make it even more complicated. Of course he's not OVER Buffy.

And as for Wesley not telling the Burkles that Fred's dead... well, number one, Wes, he go loopy recently, you not notice? And number two, in the context of one - he's been obsessed with Illyria for weeks. So, yes, he didn't tell Fred's parents she was dead, when her doppelganger's walking around making his life into Chinese water torture. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
 
  

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