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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Angel Season 5 UK

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19:42 / 09.02.04

After all my early moaning I have to say I'm really enjoying Angel now, I'm back on track with the episodes after watching them in a very strange order and I've really enjoyed the last few episodes.....

19:52 / 09.02.04

Oh yeah and Eve isn't half as hot as I thought she was

10:02 / 11.02.04

Yeah, but you'd still give her one wouldn't you? I would. Or at least offer.

"Would you like one?"
"Yes, Fraely. Thankyou."
"My pleasure, Eve."

Like that.

10:54 / 11.02.04

sun, that's fine. if you want to go waggling the stick around where chunky dave's hair and gut have already dangled then you go right ahead. i'll have the dildo record playing in the background for you if you like.

12:18 / 11.02.04

Aaahh... Romance. I especially like the idea of you being present for my erotic times, cuing up Dildo on the stereo and shouting words of encouragement. As for BoreAnus' hair, he's fairly smooth isn't he? That waxed torso exposing his chunkness to the world. Urgh. It's a good job he's such a great actor, otherwise people may be turned off the show.

11:14 / 02.03.04

xposty
in response to monbiot's stirring rhetoric in the guardian today, go here

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/petition-sign.cgi?ai5d0162

and save our dave!

i have. all pissery aside, the show might be more balls than most, but there's fuck all else better on, cept smallville maybe

18:26 / 02.03.04

%Because it worked so well with Farscape. Media corporations really love online fan petitions.%

Regrettable Juvenilia

18:32 / 02.03.04

Well, I can't say whether the fan campaigns had anything to do with it, but Farscape is currently filming a four-part miniseries...

But they're very different situations. Farscape had been promised another season they didn't get, and as I understand it the writers were given barely any notice to wrap anything up. Whedon & co have said that their original plan for the end of this season of Angel works pretty well as an end to the show as a whole, and I doubt it'll take much tweaking to wrap everything up (a LOT of long plot threads were tied up by the end of season 4, remember). So I'm not sure I want to campaign for a season 6 of Angel. Something about that number and shows I like taking a turn for the worse...

07:24 / 03.03.04

I signed the petition without really thinking about it. Then I spent half an hour slagging off Angel with housemates Ste and Wange. Then I watched apretty good episode of Angel! Angel and Spike fighting! Angel losing! Hah! It was good and dense and the slashy stuff was really funny. The creators seem to be getting down to the real extended plotline business. Now I'm actually a bit excited about the outcome of the situation with W&H and looking forward to the next episode with something close to excitement. Did anyone notice who wrote and/or directed that episode?

07:50 / 03.03.04

it was dave fuiry and steve deknight i think. boy's own bashery last night and no mistake. beginning to miss this show already.

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:13 / 03.03.04

Director: Skip Schoolnik
Writers: David Fury / Steven S. DeKnight
(Fun fact: according to an interview with David Fury, DeKnight wanted Angel to win the fight at the end, but Fury successfully argued that this was the one time Spike had to win.)

Yeah, I was really pleased with how good that episode was - easily the best so far this season. I think ironically it managed to straddle both the Deva and Jack the Bodiless positions - IE, really overt homoeroticism, well past the point of subtext - "You don't think that makes me some kind of deviant, do ya?" - but at the same time focusing on the aspects of their relationship which are more important today. They really nailed some of the differences in their characters, too - witness the way Spike really enjoys a fight in a way Angel has never really been shown to.

In the end, I couldn't help but come to the conclusion that while Angel can be a bit of an issues-laden, in-denial, pompous, pontificating, mopey loser, he's still more likeable than Spike. Because two of Spike's main criticisms of Angel are 1) Angel spends too much time angsting over his past, whereas Spike has already come to terms with who he is, 2) Angel's soul was inflicted upon him whereas Spike made a conscious decision to get a soul and had to suffer some very tedious tests to get it. But 1) is bullshit if you know what Spike left out of 2): the fact that he went to get a soul because he was feeling guilty for the attempted rape of Buffy. Sure, you could argue that a soulless vamp feeling any guilt is unique, but it hardly gives Blondie the moral high ground.

The one good point Spike did make: that Angel doesn't actually know who he (Spike) is, because he never met William pre-vamp, and has been assuming that the soul doesn't make much difference to Spike's personality (he can be forgiven with the latter though thanks to some of the writers).

Our Lady Has Left the Building

08:53 / 03.03.04

I thought the conflict was rather forced, it's all interesting that Angel and Spike both bleed more after fighting each other than they did last year fighting The Beast/Jasmine or Caleb.

And I suppose that, due to her appearence in the flashback this issue, we're going to have Dru turn up in the present time sometime soon? Stake her this time, please...

But, I know that both Angel and Spike would want on some level to become human but I don't believe that despite last week and this week that Angel would suddenly become converted back to believing Shanshu enough to actually want to become a human again.

So, Lindsey is back. It's going to be really interesting if my reading of what Eve said is correct, that she and Lindsey are trying to play Angel's gang against the Senior Partners. I wonder he's working with either The First Evil or whoever was behind sending Roy Fucking Dotrice! in last week.

Let's hope Spike is corporeal full time now. I think the ghost thing had gone as far as it could.

15:44 / 03.03.04

it managed to straddle both the Deva and Jack the Bodiless positions

as so few things do in this lacklustre world.

Regrettable Juvenilia

20:05 / 09.03.04

Well, that didn't seem much like an episode of Angel. Really obvious comedy filler episodes focusing on minor characters either have to tie in a little more with what's going on with the rest of the show, or be so ridiculously amusing and entertaining that you don't care: this one didn't do either as far as was concerned. And Spike's reasoning for not going to Europe was pure contrivance. It's all a bit too close to 'Late Buffy' syndrome for me, so I'm kinda glad the show has an expiry date...

But I'll forgive any episode which uses 'Hey Sailor' by The Detroit Cobras almost in full.

"See me for what I am, OK?"

21:01 / 09.03.04

Y'know, I have absolutely NO idea where Angel's at on Sky at the mo. Was the last episode 'Destiny'?

I have no patience, so I'm downloading them as they're on in the US, and damn! is it all good.

Anyway, a bit on names, 'cos something earlier in the thread got me wondering. Liam (Angel's given name) is actually an Irish derivation from William, dating from somewhere between the 17th and 19th centuries.

Further, the etymology of William comes from Germanic words roughly meaning 'resolute' and 'protection' - it is the perfect name for a hero and Champion.

So what I'm wondering, is this coincidence? Most likely, but what if that little scamp Whedon really IS the scary-ass genius that all his Mutant Enemy employees keep saying he is on DVD commentaries?

08:02 / 10.03.04

well you don't really need to know the etymology of the word to know it's an appropriate name for a champ-type, you just need to know a tiny bit about european history. what's perhaps more interesting to note is that liam/angel is intended to be oirish [stifle yr giggles] and naming him william (presumably after 'of orange') would have been synonymous at the time with a rather unpopular, if not tyrannical chap, and certainly a contentious choice for a father to saddle his son with.

Jack The Bodiless

12:05 / 10.03.04

well you don't really need to know the etymology of the word to know it's an appropriate name for a champ-type, you just need to know a tiny bit about european history.

Yes. Because the former doesn't inform the latter at all. I feel diachronic, give me gin and tonic...

I quite liked last night's episode, primarily because it does tie in so well with the ongoing Spike/Angel dynamics. It may be a throwaway comedy ep on the face of it, but as Harm (love that abbreviation) says - she doesn't have a soul. It's a lot harder for her. And she's placed herself in the same position as Spike and Angel were placed in following the reinstallation of their souls. Without the necessity to go get one.

Now, you can argue that she's just doing it for career advancement - but that's missing some of the fundamentals of Harm's position relating to Angel. For a vampire with no respect and no social life seeing Angel get all the respect in the world from good and evil sides in the cold war, because of who he is, both when he was evil, and afterwards - it's not hard to see him (in that light) as a role model, and soulless vampires in the Whedonverse are supposed to be damned impressionable (Harm being more than most, too - remember her in high school?)

Now overlay that onto Spike. He's got a similar problem to deal with, but his incorporates the hundred-plus year envy/veangeance/oedipal thing he's had going... I mean, why do you think he went and got his soul back? Because when Angel had one, Buffy loved him. Spike's always been Angel/Angelus' pale shadow - never as evil as Angelus, never as loved as Angel, famous for being a bloodthirsty scrapper rather than a machiavellian, twisted mass-murderer.

Apologies for rushed posting - it's lunchtime, I gotta get back to work. And I liked Spike's reason for staying in LA, personally... both becasue of what he said (he's scared of seeing Buffy. They had their big finale dramatic emotional moment - the bathos of just turning up again would be unbearable. It'd be like breaking up with your partner in a final, nasty, confrontational way, moving out - and then sneaking back into bed later on that night, and hoping ze doesn't notice next morning) and what he didn't say (prophecy say Spike become human. Human Spike maybe good for Buffy? Even better than soully Spike? Hmmm...).

Jack The Bodiless

10:16 / 11.03.04

Unrelated to slightly uneven previous post - but calls to save Angel take a more imaginative turn. From cityofangel.com:

"The petitions, letters, and billboards are [protesting] the all too early demise of Angel. Not enough for you? Do you want to do something that will also "Help the Helpless"? An idea was born and is growing on the discussion boards at SaveAngel.org. Across the U.S., and picking up speed in the U.K., fans are contacting local Red Cross Centers to set up March 17th as the Save Angel Blood Drive Day.

Several of the entries on the boards will give you specific information on how to set up the blood drive and what to expect when you go in to donate your blood. This idea not only brings Angel fans together to protest the untimely cancellation of the show, but it will give life giving blood to so many who need it. If you can not find a location near you maybe you can start your own blood drive in your area, contact your American Red Cross Blood Services (1-800-GIVELIFE/1-800-448-3543) and get in touch with a blood drive representative who will help set up your blood drive opportunity."

Gotta admire the lateral thinking... and at least it might be successful in getting geek blood into bloodbanks...

10:30 / 11.03.04

I feel diachronic

word to that. i'm mad for a toke me.

i've thought i should give blood for a while now. it's not hugely surprising given my proclivities that it's the cancellation of a much-mocked tv show that'll finally motivate me to organise doing so. who says the goggle-box is a bad influence?

08:03 / 24.03.04

Finally. First good episode in the season (apart from the rather throwaway one where Lorne gave a party and his unconscious went smash!). The joy that Andrew gives me is beyond measure, and the Spike/Angel interaction got interesting for the first time since Spike got out of the wheelchair. For me, anyway: that's partly because I have a proclivity towards quiet talking between damaged people in lulls from fighting, and find S&A's usual aggressive mode of interaction (ME CHAMPION! NO! ME CHAMPION! ME BIGGEST CHAMPION TIMES A MILLION AND NO RETURNS!) almost as unwatchably tedious as Angelus' auto-sexual-taunting. ("Angel's lost his soul. Who wants to go and get threatened with rape in a supposedly sexy manner... um, I mean guard him?")

Ahem. Anyway, totally moved up a gear this week, just as I was getting really pissed off at having to waste an hour of all my Tuesdays on it. Cool baddie and a very cool ending. Though it would have been improved by re-scoring: all together now:

if you complain once more, you'll face an army of me...

Our Lady Has Left the Building

10:49 / 24.03.04

Took a while for Andrew to settle down, he seemed very odd and out of character in his first scene, and I don't remember him having such a big gay crush on Spike last season. But things improved.

And wouldn't a 'Slayer Task Force' show rock? If they could work out a plausible reason for why none of the 'Buffy' cast were in it.

Anyway, I missed last weeks episode due to my cable being kaput, anyone want to fill me in on what I missed? Something about Eve and evil plans?

12:09 / 24.03.04

Yeah - not one of my favourite episodes, due to revolving round my two least favourite characters, and having my least favourite structural quirk. Eve put a parasite on Angel which made him hallucinate a lot, so we spent a lot of the episode in Angel's unconscious as he brooded over being a redundant male (each of the characters appeared to him in turn and told him he wasn't as good as Spike, basically). Meantime Lindsey, calling himself Doyle and claiming to be having visions from TPTB, found Spike in a strip club (actually, that bit was cool) and told him that he was now called to help the helpless in manner of old-skool Angel. He also gave Spike an apartment and Spike made a ton of jokes about Lindsey wanting to have sex with him: it's not just Andrew whose gay crush on Spike is being flagged up this season.

17:08 / 25.03.04

Just watched the tape of this week's episisode. Very good indeed. Fucking good, actually. Reminded me of why I watch this Buffyverse crap. Really good seeing Andrew (who most certainly did have a big gay crush on Spike in Buffy) and the bit when Spike lost his hands was tops. Good horror. It's a pity they were sewn back on at the end. I was hoping they'd have to slowly grow back and Spike would have Jeremy Beadle hands for an episode, or "Bloody wanker poof hands, oi!" as he would probably put it. He's English, don't you know.

My only worry is that next week's episode won't make it over the bar. It's sad, but I'm not that hopeful. What a pessimistic bastard I am.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

11:34 / 26.03.04

Let's hope they are Spike's original hands and he hasn't been given evil ones. Well, Whedon's not above using old ideas...

Jack The Bodiless

11:38 / 26.03.04

Off topic, I know, but - what's the difference between having a crush on (nominally) a man, and a gay crush? Any?

11:13 / 27.03.04

One of them's more fun to say.

Whisky Priestess

12:40 / 27.03.04

I reckon you can crush on people by just loving everything about them and wanting to be just like them without actually wanting to shag them. Kind of a hero-worship thing - homosocial rather than homosexual. Not that Andrew is a big gruff het by any stretch.

Well, that's my excuse ...

16:16 / 27.03.04

Ok, first post
I was driven to make this by the above flyboy post:

"some truly cringe-inducing dialogue: the ballet dancers are "tight" and "tripping him out", eh Joss?"

I reacted this way too at first, but later I saw an interview with J. August Richards talking about I think it was the special effects team at Angel, and he kept saying they were "tight" and he was "tripping out."

Sad but true.

10:29 / 28.03.04

So what you're basically saying is that the dialogue wasn't embarrassing or hackneyed but that Americans are embarrassing and hackneyed? I like your style!

Whisky Priestess

13:31 / 28.03.04

Either that or that J.A.R. either writes his own dialogue or forgets how it's written and improvises while Joss et al gnash their teeth ...

21:07 / 31.03.04

So what did y'all think of the supposed big, emotional episode?
Did very little for me. We haven't seen Cordy for so long that that whole thing meant very little.

The temporary resolution to the Lynsey thing wasn't great, either. Did like the Enochian reference though. Feels like ages since they refernced something I've actually heard of.

FInd it hard to believe that Spike was that easily led and manipulated. Kept hoping he was just playing along and was going to turn on "Doyle".

Very bleh series so far. Hope it picks up before the end.

05:52 / 01.04.04

Thought it was quite good. Glad they engaged with Lynsy and finished him off in the same episode. I thought maybe they'd drag it all out even further by having Angel and the gang all with their fingers up their arses making "duh" noises but they didn't. I must say, Cordelia's breasts dominated the episode though.

Regrettable Juvenilia

06:42 / 01.04.04

I don't really know why anyone would be surprised that Spike could be easily led and manipulated: he is fundamentally not very bright, as has been established many times over by now (attacking the TV in the background being only the most recent example).

I liked this episode - just because one of the key love interests in Angel's life had been away for a while, doesn't mean that their return and subsequent passing didn't have meaning. But enough about Lindsey - boom, boom.

This series has been a little patchy and doesn't really measure up to season 4 so far, but I do like one thing: the way the W&H arc acts as a counter to all that "subvert the system from the inside! be a corporate magician in a shiny suit!" bollocks from a few years back. What's really good is that rather than just having a melodramatic "this place is corrupting us all" thing going on (although I'm sure that's coming), the writers have Angel just being kinda depressed because office jobs are depressing, and dispiriting, and sucky.

09:01 / 01.04.04

Lol. Goldboyce.

Whisky Priestess

22:59 / 02.04.04

I feel your pain re the office jobs thing, but let's face it, Dave ain't exactly temping his life away as a lowly filing clerk, is he? He's the big boss! He is the LAW! He could spend all day in the boardroom watching Chicks With Stakes VII and abusing a Kleenex if he liked. What's to glum about?

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