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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Return of the King (spoilers)

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uncle retrospective

05:54 / 17.12.03

Well I saw this yesterday and thought I’d start the thread with my 2 cent.
I may as well start off with my views in the first two to give what I going to say some sort direction.
I hate the book. I’ve read it 3 times because of whining fan boys trying to convince me I’ve missed out on something, thought the first film was pretty boring, and that the Two Towers was one of the worst films I’ve ever seen this side of the Matrix.
Return of the King kicked my ass.
You see, I hate Hobbits, really, really, hate them. For the first hour of this film I was hoping they would just kill em off. (I know, I know…

Put a sign reading Arbeit macht frei over the Shire and put them out of my misery, but a weird thing started happening. I started liking the hobbits (still couldn’t give a toss about Frodo though.) Not only that but the utterly dull battle scenes from the Two Towers have been cleaned up and some, no a lot of drama added. The battle for Minas Tirith is incredible; the pace is breakneck but pauses to give an idea of how the characters are dealing with the slaughter. Gandalfs speech about what is waiting after death really strikes a cord and for the first time in the three movies I cared about happened to everyone. Christ by the end I was cheering for Sam! I never thought that would happen. There are some really odd bits where I was sure the Hobbits were going to get naked, spray baby oil over each other and start making hairy footed love. Here, Sam’s wife is more a beard than ever before. There is a lot of wide eyed staring between Sam and Frodo.
The biggest problem with this film is the book it’s based on, the last 25 minutes could be chopped off. If the movie ended at Minas Tirith instead going to the Shire and the departure of the Elves people would have ran out of the cinema looking for a kingdom to save, instead it left me with a my first dose boredom and a pain in my backside. Just like the book.
So it’s good, almost amazing. Go see and enjoy.

Brigade du jour

20:50 / 17.12.03

Whhhhhooooooooooaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, my favourite character used to be Gimli, but now it's Sam. He's almost everything I want to be (and some I already am) - he's steadfastly loyal, he's dependable, he likes his food, he's strong of heart and body if not of mind, and when it really comes down to it he's the most determined little fucker you're ever going to trip over (cos he's so small).

Put my name under 'soiled pants'!

01

06:28 / 18.12.03

Good Lord this film destroyed.

I read the books before each movie just to make sure I did read each book, and I'm happy I did. Return of the King is incredible. The adaptation to film is beyond words. Just when you think that they couldn't get anymore grand than the Two Towers, they top it exponentially. It's too much to describe. The effects, the acting, the sheer scope of it.

I loved the first two movies. This one is the best. Hands down. The battle scenes were beyond gargantuan, the plight of Frodo and Sam was beyond dramatic. The elation of Gollum finally realizing that he owns his precious in the few seconds before he hits the lava flow was awe inspiring. It's like the behind the scenes on the DVD said, we have seen a dramatic perfomance from a CG character. The Gollum actually deserves an Oscar.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

10:22 / 18.12.03

Yep. It's a keeper.

And a what a fucking crowd pleaser. I caught the midnight show in the fine borough of Manhattan and, aside from some people who sewed fake hair onto their Keds (oh that I were just kidding), the crowd was fantastic.

Moments of elation (in no particular order):

- Aragorn and The Pirates Of The Carribean ready to trounce.
- LEGOLAS YOU FUCKING AVATAR OF AWESOMENESS, THAT ELEPHANT IS TOAST!
- And then, you dare top it with Gimli cracking: "That only counts as one!"?? I fucking almost stood up!
- Sam saying, "Hey Spider, ye daft cunt, taste my blade!" Or rather, his actions seemed to reflect such a sentiment.
- All of Middle Earth bowing to those noble hobbits.
- Eowyn double swording that Elephant.
- Eowyn v. The Witch King, "You're next, Dave Sim!"

There were probably more, it's a bit of a blur. My favorite cross-pop-cultural item?

The Sloth-From-Goonies Urukai has the Dr.-Claw-From-Inspector-Gadget Voice. Luckily the movie was so insanely loud, no one could hear my continuous bellow of "GADGET!!" (because where you're doing Dr. Claw's voice, you can't whisper).

It actually made a lot of sense if you broke it down to Inspector Gadget archetypes. Aragorn as Gadget, Eowyn as Penny, maybe Gimli or Merry as Brain?

But anyway, this movie was tight. Drumline tight.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

11:49 / 18.12.03

Fucking ACE. Not only did Minas Tirith make me feel like I was eight years old again, it made me feel like I was eight years old and watching the Empire Strikes Back for the first time. And that's not something I say lightly.

Yes, still a little disappointed at no Scouring of the Shire, but believe it or not that's a minor criticism (even though that's one of the key scenes in the book imho).

The mumakil (sp?) totally fucking ruled; same goes for the Witchking. And it only occurred to me about halfway through that I wasn't marvelling at how good the CGI was on Gollum... I actually started believing he was real.

Denethor going nuts was done beautifully- and I swear he kept turning into Marlon Brando.

Faramir's transition from irritating bastard to tragic hero was also wonderful.

So much to love about this film. Fucking awesome.

12:38 / 18.12.03

great movie!

i must agree as well, the homoerotic content is a bit high. bouncing on the beds?

14:33 / 18.12.03

Put a sign reading Arbeit macht frei over the Shire and put them out of my misery

Saruman agrees, that being more or less the whole Scourging of the Shire bit that was cut. Aah well. Pansy Hobbit fanciers.

I go to see it tomorrow night, and couldn't be more stoked about it!

Brigade du jour

20:47 / 18.12.03

Yo home, big shout out to Benjamin Birdie (or whatever trendy youngsters say nowadays)!

Thanks for pointing out the highlights, I had actually been so blown away by the film that I couldn't break it down into its component parts. But here's my highlights, on top of and beyond the ones BB mentioned.

1. Eowyn chopping that big flying thing's head off.
2. The theme of the Ring - when the title comes up and that simple little melody is played it excites and scares the shit out of me at once.
3. Eowyn grabbing Merry (or is it Pippin? I have serious trouble remembering which is which) and plonking him in her lap. Lucky little sod.
4. Sam putting Frodo over his shoulder and stomping up the mountain like the big lovable ol' lug he is.
5. Eowyn smiling.
6. Aragorn leaping off the boat like Spider-Man. An exciting moment compounded by the spilling on to the shore of about four million ass-kicking ghosts which I'd managed to forget was about to happen.
7. Eowyn. Just Eowyn.

In fact, I think the reason I enjoyed all three films so much is that each time I read the book right before going to see it, so I sort of knew what was going to happen, yet it still surprised me because there was too much detail to remember. A perfect conflation of familiarity and surprise. So when's PJ doing The Hobbit, then?

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

22:33 / 18.12.03

The film rights are a-scupperin' all hope right now, ms. Felicia. Roight queer them 'ollywood folks an' their legal depaaartments!

23:45 / 18.12.03

Lord of the Rings was great until you realised that you just saw the special DVD 24 alternate endings. Sam and Frodo lying on the rock and fade to black? Great ending. No? Ok, Frodo wakes up and sees all his friends around him Wizard of Oz style? Great ending! No, wait, there's another ending. The King is crowned, at this point I'm ready to leave, but noooooo! Then they travel to the boat and say goodbye to Frodo. Ok, it was a good movie but I feel the movie's been over for quite some time now, yet I'm still watching it. But then I have to watch Sam going back home and saying hi to the kids and wife. Arrrrgh.

23:48 / 18.12.03

Oh, and Sam made the movie for me despite the ending. He just had so much heart and overshadowed Frodo. When he said that Frodo had to carry the ring, but that he could carry Frodo? I wanted to jump up and scream "Go Sam!".

Keith, like a scientist

01:07 / 19.12.03

that's nuts, man. the endings are what MAKE return of the king. what have these poor people been fighting for all this time? happiness and peace is what. what does happiness and peace look like to them? hmm?

aragorn becoming king and getting reunited with the love of his life
hobbits getting respect
hobbits going home
people finding each other (wink, wink, eowyn and faramir, wink, wink)
friends being reunited
bad people getting what they deserve
gandalf getting some freaking rest already
frodo and bilbo getting a freaking rest already
sam going back to the shire and being in love and having some kids (btw, one of those kids was actually astin's. fancy that!)

anyway...even in the books, i loved the "epilogues." that's what makes this more than just people hitting each other with swords.

01

01:45 / 19.12.03

Agreed. The lengthy ending to the film was done incredibly well and stayed true to the book. It really gave the scope of the epic journey that the characters had gone on. I thought the scene where they rode back into Hobbiton as decorated war heroes was perfect. Those who didn't dig it should be happy that Jackson didn't try and incorprate the "Saruman invades Hobbiton" epilogue that was in the book. As far as I saw it, one of the most important lines in the entire book is the final one. Sam's "Well, I'm back." It had to be included in the film and to get that point, we had to see what became of Frodo and company. The return was an integral part of the story.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

06:42 / 19.12.03

Yeah, it's a twenty minute ending to an eleven hour movie, not a 3.25 hour movie.

Geeeettt oooooover it.....evvvvvvvryooonnnnnnne

Brigade du jour

00:03 / 20.12.03

You know what?

I reckon December 17th next year, I'm going to go out and buy all the special edition DVDs and then watch them all in one marathon twelve hour session (duly interrupted by trips to the pub and loo).

And I'm not going to go near any of the films in any of their forms in the interim. And you're all invited!

Assuming of course I'm still in my nice new studio flat by then!

09:36 / 20.12.03

I was wondering what there's going to be to look forward to next Christmas, but it is of course the release of the extended Return Of The King DVD.

I loved this as well -was particularly impressed with the way Merry and Pippin actually got proper parts in this one, as they had hitherto mainly provided comedy in the grimmer parts of the Two Towers. Their reactions when they were told that this time, things were not necessarily going to be alright, were amazing.

And Shelob was every bit as disgusting as I wanted her to be. I thought that we'd seen the end of her after Frodo's fight with her, and was close to shouting "No! More Shelob! More Shelob!" at the screen.

Clearly all this has been said already, but I have two final points, both of which are prefaced with the words 'does anyone else think that...'-

i)...the ugly-lite Orcs bore a striking resemblence to Bill Nighy?
ii)...there should be a parallel thread called 'Return of the King (squealing and giggling)' reserved entirely for discussion of Aragorn, Eowyn, and the cuteness of hobbits dressed as orcs?

12:14 / 20.12.03

Will go to see it this weekend mos def. Like to see that everyone enjoyed it.

and F H Brigade... my young sis' did something like this back in my hometown where there was a screening of the two special editions leading up to the 1st midnight showing of ROTK. Sleeping bags and all. Need to see if she made it!

14:10 / 20.12.03

a striking resemblence to Bill Nighy?

Fun fact: Bill Nighy did the voice of Sam in the 1978 BBC radio version of the books (which also starred Ian Holm--the movie Bilbo--as Frodo!)--and Sean Astin seems to have based his operformance on Nighy's; their inflections, in certain scenes, are identical.

Little wonder: Jackson apprently handed out CD copies of the Beeb's version to cast members who had never read the books--Astin among them.

16:24 / 20.12.03

Just heard that Jackson IS trying to secure rights to do "The Hobbit". Can't wait to see how he does Smaug.

Mmmmmmm. Smaug.

Foust is SO authentic

17:40 / 20.12.03

My audience laughed at Denthanor's death. He runs down the hallway in flames... and jumps off the cliff. A lemming. It was sooo overblown.

Frodo telling Sam to go away was annoying and stupid - it was a cheap plot device. Why not just keep the original means of seperating Sam & Frodo - Sam charging after Gollum in a bloodlust?

Why on earth did Arwen's life suddenly have to be tied to the fate of the ring? What, Jackson didn't think the fate of middle earth was dramatic enough? Aragorn's main squeeze needed to be involved!

Criticisms aside, my audience cheered and clapped more than it did moan and laugh. Legolas killed everyone, like in the first two movies. Eowyn was undeniably awesome.

One more criticism. I always pictured Sam's battle with Shelob as more frantic, more blind rage. Shelob simply getting her ass kicked, and not knowing why it's happening to her. The movie made it more of a standup fight, which I guess is more realistic, but didn't make me twitch with pleasure the way it did in my mind.

Brigade du jour

20:28 / 20.12.03

Vincennes, I hear the ROTK DVD is actually coming out in August, so as not to keep all of us soppy fanboys and fangirls waiting too long. May be just a rumour, but I felt honour-bound to share it with y'all.

Foust, I think the whole thing about Sam's reasons for being separated from Frodo and his emotional state while fighting Shelob basically comes down to the differences in film and novel. That is, motivations and causes and effects sometimes have to be modified, or translated, from one medium to another due to conventions of literary as opposed to dramatic storytelling.

Plus, of course, a lot more people have seen and are going to see the films than have read or will read the books, so it's probably kind of a 'simplification for the mass market because they're dumb-asses' kind of deal.

Still, I suppose if you're more accustomed to the books then changes such as these can feel like a betrayal of Tolkien's didactic purpose, or simply of a reader's emotional response to the story. And please bear in mind that I only read the books in the last couple of months, so they haven't been a part of my life for a decade or two.

22:51 / 20.12.03

>>>Plus, of course, a lot more people have seen and are going to see the films than have read or will read the books,<<<

If I recall correctly, the documentary on the Fellowship dvd says that LotR is the second most widely read book, after the Bible.

I absolutely loved every frame of RotK, and openly wept at the end. "You bow to no one." Niagara Falls!

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

01:23 / 21.12.03

*pats Cam on the back*

I'm right there with you, friend. I'm right there with you.

14:49 / 21.12.03

Plus, of course, a lot more people have seen and are going to see the films than have read or will read the books, so it's probably kind of a 'simplification for the mass market because they're dumb-asses' kind of deal.

I've never read the books because I don't care about elves and hobbits and whatnot. I'll read a Dungeon's Masters guide or Monster Manual first.

Yeah, it's a twenty minute ending to an eleven hour movie, not a 3.25 hour movie.

I saw a 3.25 hour movie, not an 11 hour movie.They could have saved saved that for their bloated dvd special edition.

anyway...even in the books, i loved the "epilogues." that's what makes this more than just people hitting each other with swords.

The 12 scene ending was what made the movie more than people hitting each other with swords?

16:35 / 21.12.03

I saw a 3.25 hour movie, not an 11 hour movie.

Didn't see FELLOWSHIP or TWO TOWERS, then?

Or are you just being intentionally obtuse?

...I don't care about elves and hobbits and whatnot.

Then why the fuck did you go see a LORD OF THE RINGS movie?

Yeah, thought so.

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

18:33 / 21.12.03

ooooOOOOOooooooh!

Mr. Penfold, whats with the tinkerbelle in the PICS thread if you ain't interested in elvish type folks?? EH????

(can I have her number please?)

18:41 / 21.12.03

Then why the fuck did you go see a LORD OF THE RINGS movie?

Because it was free, bitch.

Brigade du jour

20:47 / 21.12.03

Cameron - LOTR is second most widely read book after the Bible? Wow, I thought that was Guinness Book Of Records. Oh well, LOTR is better anyway.

00:02 / 22.12.03

(can I have her number please?)

Money$hot, she would kill me if I gave her number to an internet weirdo.

I'm not a huge fan of Dungeons and Dragons type fantasy, but I like a good action movie, I heard there was a super fight scene, and it was free so I went to see it. And a movie should be able to stand on it's own, thus my argument that I should have saw an ending for a 3 1/2 hr movie instead of an 11 hour movie.

People say that a movie adaptation should be reworked so that those who aren't familiar with the source material can still enjoy it and make sense of it, and I don't see why that shouldn't apply here.

00:23 / 22.12.03

You see Jack, if you’d paid for it, you’d think 3 ½ hours was terrific value for money. It would completely transform your opinion of the film. You'd never want it to end. That’s why nobody trusts reviewers who don’t pay for their own tickets.

Actually, I wonder if all the LOTR films are popular with winos? Because they get to sit in the warm for twice as long for the same ticket price. Somebody should do an analysis.

00:38 / 22.12.03

I'm not a huge fan of Dungeons and Dragons type fantasy, but I like a good action movie...

Let me tell you a little story.

Do you remember the TV show BARNEY MILLER? Hal Linden, Abe Vigoda, Jack Soo. Funky theme song with a killer bassline. It was a sitcom, a workplace ensemble comedy set in a police station. Shot on video, single set, five-camera setup, live studio audience laughing their asses off.

Fellow on another message-board, a few years ago, said he always hated BARNEY MILLER--because, although he was a fan of cop shows generally, he just couldn't take it seriously. He'd completely missed, or ignored, or discounted, the fact that it was a sitcom; for him, the show failed, because it failed as a cop show.

I thought this was the most retarded thing I would ever read.

Now I realize it is only the second.

And a movie should be able to stand on it's own...

When it's the third in a series that is structured to tell a single coherent story when taken as a whole? Why? Because "people say"?

I was wrong: that's the second-most-retarded thing I'll ever read--the BARNEY MILLER thing is only the third. Bitch.

01:08 / 22.12.03

When it's the third in a series that is structured to tell a single coherent story when taken as a whole?

If should still be able to stand on it's own. I don't care if it's the millionth movie made, it should still be able to hold it's own as just one film. I know you understand this, even issue 3 of a 5 part Groo miniseries should have a solid beginning middle and end. Slut.

02:03 / 22.12.03

My fav was Gandalf fighting with his sword and staff...He could soo kick Neo's ass. Just ask Aragorn, he'd tell ya, he was there. And the undead were cool. But I kept expecting Luke to trip the olyphants with the cable from his snowspeeder.

02:17 / 22.12.03

>>>If should still be able to stand on it's own. I don't care if it's the millionth movie made, it should still be able to hold it's own as just one film.<<<

And why is that? Because people who pay to see just the one won't feel ripped off?

But then, you *didn't* pay, did you?

There's never been any secret on the part of the filmmakers that this is one narrative split into three parts. You went into it knowing that, and knowing that it's a film in a genre you dislike. Complaining about it afterwards just makes you look like a fool.

03:12 / 22.12.03

You went into it knowing that, and knowing that it's a film in a genre you dislike. Complaining about it afterwards just makes you look like a fool.

Nooooooo! I have now been insulted by Barbelith Legend Jack Fear and Up and Coming Artist superstar Cameron Stewart(look for Cameron to team up with Grant Morrison for Seaguy!). I have been shamed. I can no longer use the name Jack Denfeld. Goodbye cruel world!

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