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From tiny thought-forms massive gods do grow ... maybe

 
  

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Ticker
14:17 / 14.09.06
Quantum:
So the loss of the phallic association seems to have been ages ago during a period where he was still 'mainstream' and worshipped by many. At the moment he seems to be losing his association with sailing and stealing and shepherds but gaining association with information and all modern communication.


Trouser:
As to whether or not this particular aspect of Hermes' worship has diminished or not, it's probably impossible to say one way or another.


I'm a-thinking, well really wondering, if they ever 'lose' traits. What I'm finding in my current work is the God I'm involved with has retained Her ancient neolithic aspects. I'm trying to puzzle out where the boundaries are between one specific God and other later Gods. It seems to get a bit confusing when new people arrived at sites and began interacting with the Spirit of the Place. The 'new' culture's worship seems to be able to shift some of the Archetypal resonaces but the older ones remain in the mix if only in suspension. To add to the fun this seems to happen fairly regularly over the life span of some Gods as They keep evolving.

The sticky part I'm running into is less about all the hats They can wear and more about the very big personality changes that seem to be tied into the shifts in Archetypal resonace. It experientially feels like talking to Someone else, and well maybe in a way it is. Any other folks have this experience with working with Gods?
 
 
Henningjohnathan
15:21 / 14.09.06
Well, if you notice, at one point in Genesis, I forget the context, but it basically says "The God of Abraham" not anyone else’s god, it was Abraham’s god. This of course could be the ancestors that Abraham worshipped. Couple this with the fact that a good deal of genesis deals with begetting, one might have a compelling argument that Judaism arose as an ancestor’s religion.

Possibly. I wouldn't want to use "ancestor" as a catch all since there is obviously a lot of evidence for the "house spirits" also being a source for eventual deification as well as "evil spirits" for demonization. I think that Julian Jaynes was onto something with his look at a "bicameral" psychology that allows people to interact with emotional and physiological sensations as if they were independent entities. Though it could be seen that a "house spirit" arises from the common emotional desire for parental protection (God the father, Goddess Mother, etc).

With Abraham, I was more speculating that he himself was the ancestor going through the story. From our point of view, perhaps, he would just be a man going through a mental disturbance (or mystical experience) and God arose as an antagonistic presence in the story to explain what he was going through and the events in his life. In this sense, God is not necessarily based upon a real person or ancestor, but emerges as part of the actual ancestor whose personal experiences were mythologized and made a defining part of the identity of his family/tribe.
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
22:07 / 16.09.06
Here's a bizarre link. Personally i haven't talked to Yahweh , but i knew a guy who did during a LSD (and Yahweh told him to follow a life of ascetysm and sacrifice).
 
 
Ticker
12:39 / 18.09.06
My dad and I were talking yesterday about the evolution of Gods and Their manifestations. It appears from the various lore that the European and Greek/Roman Deities would just show up incarnate when They wanted to. My reading of world myths seem to indicate that many Deities did this.

Yet nowadays I'm running into more people who work with possesion. While I have been able to find sources of possesion by Greek Deities and Their oracles I have not found sources in regards to the Celtic pantheon. As far as my research has been able to find the Gods of the Celts (the megalithic peoples before them) just took form.

I'm bringing it up in this thread because my interest isn't focused on possesion in a critical manner but why it appears to be more common now than incarnation or temporary manifestation. Are people just not reporting the manifestation or are they reporting them as something else?
 
 
petunia
13:25 / 18.09.06
xk - If a god were to show up incarnate, would many people necessarily recognise hir?

I love the tales of varied entities popping up in human or animal form, but as a pretty cynical person, i'd be a bit um.. disbelieving if someone came up to be and said 'i am Lugh incarnate'.

And seeing as worship, or even knowledge of many godforms is rather thinly spread these days, there aren't too many people around who could start to recognise the name of a god-incarnate, let alone believe/acknowledge it.

Added to this is the fact that many people are unlikely to tell people 'yeah, i just met a boar who said he was an old god', even if they do experience such an encounter.

I suppose this is true of possession, but my impression (tell me if i'm wrong) is that a lot of the possession that people talk about is induced and intended. Most of the tales of meetings with godforms/entities show them as rather unexpected.

So maybe the gods are taking form just as much as they used to, but they just ain't being recognised.
 
 
ESOZONE : Oct 10 - 12 PDX 2008
13:48 / 18.09.06
Interesting read...

My only comment is that it may be worth considering how the great number of gods in the Hindu pantheon work.

The basic idea there is that all gods represent the one 'all' god, its just a matter of where you decide to focus and have everything else fractal outwards from.

So, the question may become, where cant you see god? Although its much easier on a level to resonate on gods that are tailored for this sort of interface, I'm not sure if thought forms are less endowed with that power, per se.

Even in Hinduism, it seems to me that all the different gods, many of which are other gods in different or combined forms, are basically as good as they are useful, as tools, focus points, and plot devices... I guess the word is characters.

The Hindu characters are played out in stories about issues of a cosmic scale and storytelling, while a story as cosmic as the Infinity Gauntlet may not move me in the same way, I can still get something out of it if I tweak my perspective on it, which in said example isn't really all that far off in the first place. I suppose the context of Thanos is that he is fictional, while mythological stories ogf Shiva are plainly not understood that way, although they are. [As far I know.]

I guess being fictional doesnt stop something from being true or useful.

On a side note, I read someplace that young men in India have taken to putting Spider-Man on some of their altars, and old schoolie Hindus are getting ruffled about it. Pissing off mom and dad with your comics in a whole new way, heh
 
 
Ticker
14:38 / 18.09.06
Well that's the tricky thing isn't it? You don't have to automatically know that the handsome old lady with the key to the cairn is in fact The Calliach who just happens to look mighty fine in a tweed walking suit.

Yet somehow the current focus is more on meeting/hanging with Them via a human intermediate rather than just going to the places They often just show up at.

The dad and I were talking about manifestations and from a Fortean POV just because something/Someone says they are a specific thing doesn't make it true. However, however, however, lots of Catholics do see Blessed Virgin Mary (BVM) and other saints at times and some could argue it may not hurt that this is an established possibility in that tradition.

I'd not be surprised if an attractive woman I met on Ben Bulben named May didn't really need to put petrol in her shiny BMW motorcycle but rather merely turned it out to pasture at night. But that's just me.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:54 / 18.09.06
The way it's been explained to me is that it's more 'effort' for a God to manifest in that way than it is to slip into a nice comfy human. I'm not sure what constitutes 'effort' to a God, but that's what I've been told.

In the sagas, Gods turning up in person don't necessarily tell people who They are; it's usually Odin and you can usually recognise Him by the hat, beard, blue cloak and the impending pwnage of some central figures in the story.

I have heard tell of Team Norse putting in (very rare) personal appearences in our time. Some of these accounts I would trust more than others.
 
 
ESOZONE : Oct 10 - 12 PDX 2008
15:08 / 18.09.06
Has anyone here had the experience of recognizing a god in a human?

Whether by revelation or deciding the person was an avatar to you for whatever period of time?
 
 
Henningjohnathan
15:23 / 18.09.06
Yet nowadays I'm running into more people who work with possesion. While I have been able to find sources of possesion by Greek Deities and Their oracles I have not found sources in regards to the Celtic pantheon. As far as my research has been able to find the Gods of the Celts (the megalithic peoples before them) just took form.

I'm bringing it up in this thread because my interest isn't focused on possesion in a critical manner but why it appears to be more common now than incarnation or temporary manifestation. Are people just not reporting the manifestation or are they reporting them as something else?


Brian Bates' THE WAY OF THE WYRD which is a fictional, but very researched, account of the shamanistic practices of early pre-Christian Europe has several scenes of possession but usually of the evil spirit variety. Obviously, among the Viking Berserkers (bear shirts) they was the sensation of some sort of divine possession. Nevertheless, in many cultures possession is seen as something negative, an assault. You don't hear of many cases of positive "possession" by Angels. Perhaps channeling or speaking in tongues is the positive corallary to possession.
 
 
Ticker
16:16 / 18.09.06
The way it's been explained to me is that it's more 'effort' for a God to manifest in that way than it is to slip into a nice comfy human. I'm not sure what constitutes 'effort' to a God, but that's what I've been told.

In the sagas, Gods turning up in person don't necessarily tell people who They are; it's usually Odin and you can usually recognise Him by the hat, beard, blue cloak and the impending pwnage of some central figures in the story.

I have heard tell of Team Norse putting in (very rare) personal appearences in our time. Some of these accounts I would trust more than others.


hrmm...I'm not sure how to dig into the issue of effort. I agree on the signals rather then the name tags when They do show up. I don't have a good sense of how often the Gods used to show up so it could have been as rare/common as it is now?

Has anyone here had the experience of recognizing a god in a human?

Whether by revelation or deciding the person was an avatar to you for whatever period of time?


Closest was my Dad's run in with the Calliach though I've had a few communicate with me directly but not in corporeal form at the time.

Nevertheless, in many cultures possession is seen as something negative, an assault. You don't hear of many cases of positive "possession" by Angels.

There's a possesion thread running now where most people have been having positive interactions (well for the most part).
 
 
petunia
17:29 / 18.09.06
I'm also reminded of a book i've mentioned in another thread - Patrick Harpur's Daimonic Reality. It's an exploration into various people's fortean experiences and a non-attempt to posit some sort of 'reason' behind it.

The idea of a 'Daimonic reality' is the aim to put into words that part of experience that lies between the objective, 'solid' word and our own personal subjective world. It is there that we experience things such as meetings with the Tuatha De Danaan, Alien abducters and so on.

He points out (as many have done before) that many of these meeting are informed by the cultural and concepual mileu of the people who experience them - Alien encounters are fairy modern, The Virgin generally appears to catholic people/people in catholic societies etc. But instead of trying to use this observation as a means for denial of these events, he posits that they take place in the Daimonic Realm - they are real events, but they are also informed by our own ideas and beleifs.

He points out that nearly every human culture through history, apart from the western european culture of the past couple hundred years, makes space for this realm. It's only with the recent attempts to specify what makes 'the real' (ie - the steady and undeniable) and to sublimate all that doesn't fit into this into our model (and if it doesn't fit, deny it) that encounters with the daimonic are less experienced, experienced as dementia, or just not acknowledged.

This is a Bad Thing, Harpur tells us, because we're essentially missing out on a natural element of our perceptual engagement with the world - our constant efforts to find proof and certainty have led us away from easy everyday relations with the remarkable. (I guess loads of people have made this point, but i remember he made it in a rather well said and non-sensationalistic way.)

If people are interested, i can dig the book out and scrape out a few more details (i read it a while ago, so my memory is a bit hazy)
 
 
Quantum
19:23 / 18.09.06
I have one of his, 'The Philosopher's Secret Fire' and it's great. He expresses that theme very well IMHO.

many of these meeting are informed by the cultural and concepual mileu of the people who experience them

Just like the experiences of people under the Koren helmet/Persinger helmet/transcranial magnetic stimulation device/sine's Optimus Prime helmet.
 
 
Ticker
22:53 / 18.09.06
heh my Dad and I are friends with Patrick and his sister Merrily who is also a Fortean researcher her work on Alien Big Cats (ABCs)is quite wonderful.

I pretty much ascribe 100% to the Daimonic model but it still leaves room for armchair mysticism debates about the relative safety/danger of interacting with these Folk.

Let's put aside proof or the sake of proving to anyone else what's going on and talk about just ID'ing the Powers that Be in Your Living Room. It comes down to etiquette and expectations most of the time. If the Daimonic mechanism is like the postal service running messages between us and ourselves, our fellow creatures, and our Fellow Creatures sometimes we have to be able to sort out the junk.

This classification may seem silly to some but almost every tradition cautions about trickster types who will claim to be your dear dead auntie but really are not and yes they are giving you shitastic advice. Not to pick on any one group but a lot of spiritual minded folk are in communication with entities that often ask for some fucked up shit. Not saying it is 'bad' or outright dangerous but that a fair amount of work has gone into figuring out the agenda of the Guest Speaker.

Which in a paranoid manner brings me back to the evolution of Gods. Just because the Deity in question says it is a certain historically known entity does not make it so. It is especially hard if you are trying to figure it out based on behavior/requests and times have changed enough for the requests to have been modified.



You and I might look askance if a Big Name showed up and informed us we have to do something unsavory. Yet I know a lot of Big Name worshippers who have been trained to comply without a lot of verfication. In fact I often see a few times a decade when some poor schlub got a message from a Big Name to do something really ghastly and heinous.

Many of the neopagans I know have a general rule that your Gods are not going to ask you to do anything that beaks your ethical code. If somebody shows up and asks for chocolate bars delivered to the local river on the third tuesday of every month I'd probably have no problem doing it. Invading another country, not so much.
 
 
EmberLeo
23:45 / 18.09.06
Ya know, given the way stories are told after the fact when, say Odin acted in our community via Posession, I'm not sure old stories would differentiate clearly between "Odin had his own body" and "Odin borrowed the body of somebody I didn't know".

I have actually been going with the idea that completely physical manifestations of the gods are essentially extreme examples of posession anyway, paired with a person who doesn't happen to know the human avatar or medium providing the body.

--Ember--
 
 
rosie x
08:29 / 19.09.06
Xk…I hope that this will be both relatively on topic and coherent as well, as it’s something I’ve been pondering for awhile now. It’s a fairly accepted premise that gods will express differing characteristics according to the points in both history and geography from which they manifest; i.e. the variations between the Hellenistic Eris and her Discordian counterpart. But I’ve noticed this principle at work not only in terms of time or place, but also of person.

For example, a good friend of mine and I both have a deep relationships with one particular loa. Several years ago, we were each getting to know Her in our own unique ways. The relationship was easier for me to work with than it was for my friend. What I mean is that my relationship with the power in question was relatively harmonious, while his was fraught with difficulty.

What made the situation even stranger was that his difficult relationship with the loa was negatively impacting his human relationships, particularly the relationship that he had with his then girlfriend. The goddess hated her. With a passion. She was jealous, spiteful and cruel to her, and caused all sorts of problems between my friend and his partner, to the point where said girlfriend just simply refused to spend time at my friend’s place until the loa’s altar and personal things were taken out of the house altogether.

As I said before, at the time this all went down, I was developing a relationship with the same loa. Yet when my friend’s girlfriend met ‘my’ version some months later, they got on wonderfully. It was definitely the same power, but she was behaving in a completely different fashion. Through the medium of my friend, she had been horrible to his girl, but through me she was sweet as honey.

I think that this phenomena had much to do with the not only the personal dynamics among the three of us humans, but also the dimensions of the spiritual relationships that my friend and I were forming with the loa in question…how we perceived her, how we addressed her, how we served her, what we asked of her, and in what tone, what we gave, what we took, our understanding of her mysteries, how those mysteries manifested upon the fabric of our lives and the framework of our personalities…a whole host of variables.

Maya Deren wrote in The Divine Horsemen that “the loa partakes of the nature of the head that bears it. The principle is modified by the person. Just as blood itself is constantly subject to dietary and glandular variations, so the psychic chemistry of these individual carriers, itself affected by internal conditions and external circumstances, in turn affects the very principles which it nourishes”.

So divine manifestation is modified not only by time and place, but by person. And yet the principle retains its archetypal continuity. Limitless variations upon a singular theme…each crafted by the psyche of the devotee.

Fascinating... Anyone have similar experiences?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:21 / 19.09.06
That's really fascinating. Do you think gender might have played a part in it? I know my Guys can sometimes have radically different relationships with devotees depending on whether they're male or female, and can sometimes get super jealous.

I know my primary has a lot of different faces that He shows to different devotees. My relationship with Him has always been pretty tricky, stormy and complex, whereas other people see Him as a sort of eccentric drinking buddy or a whacky uncle type figure. I figure this is at least partly down to my approach. Most of the prescribed rituals out there call for a sort of child's-birthday-party-plus-liquor atmosphere, in expectation that the Guy who's going to show up will be a flighty, clownish sort who'll mostly want to play and drink cheap beer with you. Whereas my approach was to offer kid's-party stuff and more old-skool goodies befitting a firey chaotic Father of Monsters. 'My' Loki is a bit harder to handle than some other people's, but I think I have a richer experience than some.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:28 / 19.09.06
(There's also elements of my own makeup that kind of require shoutyness and the putting on of the God Face from time to time, of course. It's complicated.)
 
 
Princess
10:50 / 19.09.06
I've been trying to write a post for two days and Mordant just did it better than me. Cowbags.
Its the same for me. Are you talking about Loki mordant? Because there is a similar process at work in Eris I think. This repackaging of largely unliked figures into happy laughing joycore deities seems to be pretty widespread.

I'm not entirely sure how this affects my practice. Eris, bless her vindictive cottons, doesn't seem to want to make this easy. Sometimes she is happy, friendly, clown like chaos (ie New Eris) and other times she's just this bitch fucking me over (Old Eris, or Strife, although I tend to assume there is a lesson in it rather than she's just evil). Sometimes she is destruction, one half of the Eris\Eros dichotomy. Sometimes she is the mother of the dichotomy, sometimes there is no dichotomy and the whole thing is just a game.
I tend to approach ehr with the attitude "I know fuck all" and she seems to approach me with the attitude "You think you know far too much". It's like, all these stories, all these ideas about Eris are ways of approaching her mystery, but no interpretations of her actually contain ehr mystery. Like she is this whole other thing, vast and scary and nice and cuddly, and the stories are just a handle we can use to grasp the whle situation.
But yeah, Mordant, I sympathise. Some people have a lot easier time with Eris than I do, painted tents and all that, but I think it's part of my nature to want a hard ride.
 
 
Princess
10:55 / 19.09.06
Ah, obviously your talking about Loki. It says so right there. I'm am le stupid.
 
 
rosie x
12:02 / 19.09.06
Do you think gender might have played a part in it?

What made the whole situation that I described even stranger was that, traditionally, the loa in question is much more indulgent with males (my friend) than she is to females (myself). If you're a man, then you've pretty much got a foot in the door with her, just cause she likes men...a lot! Traditionally, she has far fewer female devotees than male ones, and is renowned for being dismissive and stand-offish to women. It takes a certain kind of girl to work effectively with her, and she is very, very demanding of the ones she does choose to move through.

So I think it had less to do with gender per se than the relationships that both me and my friend were forging with the Lady at the time. It was revealed a year or so on that she was indeed my met tet (patron), so she may have shown me special favour, being her girl and all.

My friend still struggles with her a bit, even now, years and years on. He finds her too demanding at times, and resentments seem to build on both sides of the mirror. She simultaneously fascinates and frightens him. It was perhaps easier for me to more completely embrace her mysteries, seeing as how they are an essential part of my own psyche. I didn’t put up much of a fight; there was no need to. Those mysteries are close to my heart and integral to my nature.

Just to reference Deren again, she writes: “…a loa contains both subject and object, both the seer and the thing seen…a loa is an intelligence” and a relationship of humanity to the divine. Each manifestation unique unto itself.

I don’t think this phenomenon is limited to any one tradition in the least. Our understanding of everything, including the divine, is filtered through our psyches, coloured by our life experiences and expectations. Strife in relationships with deity is not always a bad thing; such strife can bring excitement to the relationship and serve as a catalyst for personal growth.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
12:16 / 19.09.06
But remember kids -



Growth Hurts

Genuine caution required.

Rosie, I could surely find lots to talk about with your friend...
 
 
Ticker
13:17 / 19.09.06
I deeply appreciate everyone's contribution to this thread as I'm finding your insights wonderfully helpful. Thank you!

For me my current handful of WTF is I'm being educated on the history of my female Patron and all of Her aspects. The experience is much like thinking you've read most of the books in the section when the librarian chuckles kindly shakes their head and opens the door to the Section and you realize you were just in some sort of magazine room. It is a combination of learning a Person's many moods and well, roles for lack of better term.

The piece that is confusing me is how the layers interact. Pardon my sloppiness while I try to explain my perceptions....

Earlier in the thread we touched on Archetypes as seperate from Deities and how Deities may project the qualities of an Archetype and we call this having Archetypal traits. We know many Deities form various traditions may resonate with the same Archetype. (same with us humans as well). One Deity may have several Archetypal resonaces and we mentioned some of Hermes' as examples. I'm going to call these 'hats' just for clarity. Some of the personality shifts being described (maybe Eris is a good example) could be attributed to mood shifts or change in hats. Same definable Deity with some variations. I'd cautiously add rosie x's Patron to this group as it sounds a lot like interpersonal dynamics.

with me so far?

Okay to try and frame my current problem I'm also getting information about the connection not just between Archetypes but in Deities of various cumulative cultures. I'm trying to wrap my head around what happens when a new people show up to an old site and overlay their current Gods on top of the Gods that are already there.
>nervous laughter<
It appears to be more than just getting a new name slapped on an existing God or a new God outright replacing an old one though these processes can happen as well.

Scholarly work to help explain the syncretian/smushing I'm babbling about can be found in the loveley Persephone's Sacred lake article and in Lucian's text on the Syrian Goddess.

Really when I calm down and think about it, it makes perfect sense. I'm just looking for language to frame it in. Experiencially it is not much different than growing closer to a human and discovering all of these other sides to them you never had a clue about. In practice it doesn't feel uncomfortable to be addressing the God of my Ancestors and have it suddenly be the God of my Ancient Ancestors even though the personality shift that goes with it can be a bit surprising. If I look at my discomfort it is when the line between Archetype and Deity gets blurry because of the lense of time. There are some moments when it snaps back into focus it feels like I'm interacting with a different God even though I'm being told quite clearly I am not. Less like culmative syncretion into one cohesive Personality....though I think the perception is faulty and I have to figure out what piece of my wiring is causing the glitch.

You know I really should just ask Them how they perceive Themselves as separate Beings.
 
 
Ticker
15:01 / 19.09.06
Maya Deren wrote in The Divine Horsemen that “the loa partakes of the nature of the head that bears it. The principle is modified by the person. Just as blood itself is constantly subject to dietary and glandular variations, so the psychic chemistry of these individual carriers, itself affected by internal conditions and external circumstances, in turn affects the very principles which it nourishes”.


This almost sound to me like how Archetypes come through filters of specifc beings as well.
 
 
EvskiG
16:32 / 19.09.06
I always think of how light shining through a stained-glass window takes on the color of the window.
 
 
rosie x
16:39 / 19.09.06
This almost sound to me like how Archetypes come through filters of specifc beings as well.

This might be a bit of a stretch, but I’m reminded of the qabalistic theory of the four worlds just now. In that model, there are two entirely separate universes which separate archetypal reality from the realm of matter. Atziluth, the archetypal world could be considered the will of the divine in its purest aspect: pristine, unchanging and perfect. This world does not communicate directly with the material, but rather informs Briah, the creative reality, the realm of inspiration. Briah in turn influences Yetzirah, the formative world, the mind’s eye, where the finishing touches are put on the blueprint of material reality. Last but not least, this formative dimension influences Assiah: material reality.

Yet the divine spark exists within all of these worlds; simultaneous and encompassing. The invisible desires to become manifest, as the material desires transcendence from manifestation.

Like I said, a bit of a stretch, but an interesting model for understanding divinity, and the various levels of reality upon which it manifests.
 
 
Quantum
17:25 / 19.09.06
OK, this might belong in another thread but I'm asking here first...

I don't do godwork, godforms, horsing, channelling, worship anybody in particular etc. but I'm seriously considering it. The problem is that I want to form a relationship with the archetype of the god of magic (argh), the sort of stylised Thoth/Hermes/Mercury with bits of Odin and Anansi and Siva and the Magician arcana and... you get my drift.

So this is fraught with difficulty on so many levels I'm not sure where to start. I mean, I've a good idea of who I want to meet but don't come from a tradition (except tangentially Western through the Tarot) so I don't have a framework to work in, or a specific face to pin on him. At the moment I'm tempted to start with The Magician, initially aiming for Hermes Trismegistus and then Hermes and then his other 'faces' if you'll excuse the expression, kinda bootstrapping my way up to a stage where I start to get a better handle on what's what by *asking him*.
Maybe it would be better to go for a thoughtform or servitor or egregore or spirit of a similar nature, but I don't think so. I want to speak to the big man, y'know?

So, my questions to y'all are 1) is it a good idea 2) what advice would you give 3) should I pick a trad and do it that way first? As I say, apologies for the tangent, I may put it in another thread if that's better.
 
 
Quantum
17:28 / 19.09.06
Just realised I was unconsciously mimicking rosie x a bit in that post, sorry- but copy the experts I always say.
 
 
Ticker
17:59 / 19.09.06
Quantum I think it is a fine idea. Put out the sign and see Who shows up.

Using your intuition let yourself be guided to many informations sources and find what resonates with you. You live in a time of cultural overlap there is no reason why should abstain from the feast of options automatically. I'd suggest keeping a journal specific to your work so you can track Who shows up to talk to you. You might even change Patrons at some point it does happen.

Not to sound flippant at all but seeking a Patron(s) is very much like dating. You put on your best presentation, go out and mingle, you hit it off with a few People, and start getting selective as suits your nature from there. Some folks have a Patron that has been with them from the start and they just didn't realize it and some need to seek out a few.

The important thing to keep in mind during Pledge Week is to be polite and be appreciative of any attention you receive while being clear that you are not sure of your path just yet. Honesty is almost always enough to get by. Take your time and don't rush but honor you're own excitement with what you are drawn to as a form of divination.
 
 
Ticker
18:06 / 19.09.06
Yet the divine spark exists within all of these worlds; simultaneous and encompassing. The invisible desires to become manifest, as the material desires transcendence from manifestation.


There is a great beauty in that cycle and I suspect there is something in your example of qabalistic theory. Indeed I'm stuck on the relationship between Archetypes and Deities and the flow of one to the other. Sadly I'm probably looking at something under a microscope when I should be gazing with a naked eye upon the heavens.
 
 
EvskiG
19:48 / 19.09.06
When I heard the learn'd astronomer,
When the proofs, the figures, were ranged in columns before me,
When I was shown the charts, the diagrams, to add, divide, and measure them,
When I sitting heard the learned astronomer where he lectured with much applause in the lecture room,
How soon unaccountable I became tired and sick,
Till rising and gliding out I wander'd off by myself,
In the mystical moist night-air, and from time to time,
Look'd up in perfect silence at the stars.
 
 
Ticker
19:53 / 19.09.06
yeah like that....

....but with dancin'.
 
 
Henningjohnathan
22:28 / 19.09.06
In the origin and formation of gods, if we look at the servants and antagonists of the dieties, are they independent entities or appendages?

Do Jehovah's angels emanate from Him or did they too grow up in the same way? Is Satan a part of God in that sense, if God's form from thought forms?
 
 
Princess
22:42 / 19.09.06
I think thats one of those questions that can only be answered with "maybe". Although "it all depends on your point of view" is a bit GCSE RE to be any real help.

Just pretend I didn't speak.
 
 
ghadis
23:06 / 19.09.06
Quantum..

Along with all the great advice above!!!

Look to your childhood. Get back to what really interested you about magic when you were a kid. What really caught your imagination. What captured your eye and drew you to the fantastic.

I've done this recently, within the last couple of years, after practicing magic for a while and getting into different paths and systems that had drew me along the way, i suddenly started having a lot of dreams and thoughts that, ultimatly, led be back to my childhood.

Which, for me, was Egypt. I fucking loved Egypt when i was a 9year old. Mummys, dog faced gods, pyramids etc. Loved it. I kind of went through a complete re-discovery of this love when, after a few years of practice, i just realised that it was staring me in the face all the time.

So i'd say look at what you were doing and thinking when you were 10.

You do seem a bit drawn towards the more Hermetic Thoth-Djehuti magician deities. Bear in mind, though, that there is a huge wealth of occult wonderfulness behind the greek-egyptian-roman hermetic stuff.

If you're interested, can i introduce you to....



Heka.

May be a useful introduction.
 
  

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