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Underground > Comic Books >

Look Kids, No Comics!

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Matthew Fluxington

16:18 / 14.07.03

Let me try to simplify this for you even more, Mister Six.

Even among the core fanbase of comic book readers who exist, and regularly visit direct sales comic book retailers, only a small fraction of them actually go to comic conventions. You're trying to assert that the highest percentile of obsessive fan is the key audience for comics in general, but you can't seem to see how that is a) not really true, and b) an extremely unhealthy attitude for both publishers and fans to have.

If your point is simply, "comic book conventions are fun and I like them," that's valid and cool. There's nothing to argue about with a point like that. But I think that you're seriously deluding yourself if you think that the conventions are "the key to the industry." I think that you are severely overrating their relevance.

16:53 / 14.07.03

I almost laughed out loud when I saw the words "Marvel" and "strong business sense" in the same sentence without the words "lack of" in between them.

The points that you have brought up are hardly valid for the market that exists

See, there are at least a couple of us that think aiming all your resources at the market that exists is a bad thing. Especially when that market is shrinking all the time as you point out here:

Comics are read by an increasingly smaller audience every year as the readership is lost to other forms of entertainment or simply growing out of it, making the market smaller all of the time. This market is sought at stores solely for comics, collectibles, toys and cards, shelves in bookshops, and headshops as well as record stores.

But then you add

Looking at a 'theoretical' market does not make a lot of sense to me.

and you lose me. The current market is a sinking ship. Its been sinking for years. The Batman movies couldn't save it. Spiderman's $400 million (or whatever) take at the box office isn't going to save it. Neither will all the Rusty Browns and Chalky Whites of the world.

Expecting the current comics market to fix itself is like expecting the Titanic to right itself and sail on to the Bahamas.

19:05 / 14.07.03

Maybe what we need is some kind af ad campaign, featuring popular celebrities...

...Nah.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

20:30 / 14.07.03

Cam: that slayed me.

bio: Well, yeah, I take your point. Marvel makes horrible decisions, but actually cutting back on the production of their comics has saved them a wad of cash.

And while the market is dwindling, bringing up a theoretical market as if it is superior to the market that exists is not much help. A "What if...?" market will have no effect on the state of affairs as it is, no matter how much you hate associating yourself with a medium enjoyed by overweight bearded shut-ins. The market has been dwindling for years and years, but has not died. Why has no one pointed THAT one out yet? Despite an increasing number of quality independent comics and the fact that they get national attention, I hardly think that they are what is keeping comics alive.

I don't think the salvation of comics is an issue here, it's salvation of a particular type of comic that is. And that's a bit egocentric.

I mean, personally, I love indies as well as main stream comics. I enjoy a good action comic, which is damned hard to come by. I also like the handmade indies like MeatHaus, BiPolar and Maakies. But I'd never say that one kind of comic is 'more important' than other types of comics. A friend of mine insists, despite his education, that GI Joe and Transformers are good comics. But I'd rather eat my own asshole out. But luckily we can both agree to disagree and go to the comic shop and come out with something we like. Which is one of the reasons I love this medium.

18:18 / 15.07.03

Felicia still wants you to know that: If Marvel stops making comics, then comics will cease to exist, even retroactively, meaning that everyone’s comic collections will vanish and even message boards like this will never have happened at all and will probably be gardening sites or something instead. Trust me, it’ll happen.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

21:25 / 15.07.03

Good for a few laughs, but it could have been hilarious.

The whole 'all comics will disappear from your collection' bit was very funny. The rest was... 'retarded,' but in a funny way. Thanks for the link.

Matthew Fluxington

21:49 / 15.07.03

Yeah. Girls are "yucky," dude.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

22:35 / 15.07.03

Stay on topic there, flux.

Less on your observations on the yuckiness of girls, more on the yuckiness of the mainstream.

01:11 / 16.07.03

Sorry, but just wanted to ask, all this "End of Comics As We Know Them" refers just to US comics, right? Because it would be ridiculous to figure they would end, lets say, in Japan, where they are like TV. In Europe, people is still fond of graphic novels.

Maybe the US industry just has to change and do something still more different to what it used to do for the past... four decades maybe?

Matthew Fluxington

02:27 / 16.07.03

I was making fun of you.

Mister Six, whom all the girls

11:11 / 16.07.03

Leave Seabastion alone, flud. He's asking a valid question. Just because you don't like managa either is no reason to just lash out at him. Besides, I believe Sebastian is rather fond of the ladies.

Sebastion: Very good question. I know little about the foreign comic market. I do know that when I was in Italy, the comics (or fumetti, sp?) on the stands were read daily, printed far better than US Comics, and looked outstanding. At newstands I saw tons of them, even six issues bundled together for about twice the price of a single. Marvel had little representation, DC and Indies none. So I think that market would do fine unless someone has other info.

Oh and don't take that crack from flex seriously, he may look dangerous, but he's a pussy cat, and an endeary loving one, the minx.

12:29 / 16.07.03

So I would say yes, this is mainly about the US serialised comics market. I am a lot fonder of the european format of 66 pages volumes, which you may decide they are graphic novels or not. These do not precisely abound in US. I notice a shift however in the Ultimate line, and maybe in also Loeb's Batman, where individual issues don't stand much on its own and read all better in a single 96 page volume. There is still a tightness that presumes some kind of decent "chapter" ending should come around page 22.

But trust me, I honestly think everybody would enjoy a lot more reading a nice, large sized, 96 page volume of your favorite mutants or heroes -or your pick- even if its released each three months.

Re: SebastiOn - I think I have gathered evidence enough to speculate that this is kind of endemic in the US, where about 90% of the people that reads my name sees an "a" as an "o". I have about thirteen examples with this one. Is it some kind of collective hypnosis?

Mister Six, whom all the girls

12:43 / 16.07.03

Nah, I just have a combo of an expensive keyboard where the a is next to the o and a bizarre personality disorder or misspelling. Still, there are worse disorders, like wingy stuck up cunt's disease. I've seen a few cases, but mostly online, thank heaven. Sorry about misspelling your nome.

I agree that the concept of 'annuals' as I've seen printed in the UK are pretty neat. I recall a gorgeous set of 60's Marvel reprints which had X-Men, Avengers, etc all and had great cover design. I personally prefer the monthlies, though, for mainstream stuff. I have seen collections of Martin Mystery, Diabolik and others in comic shops. Even Paragon Press tried its hand at that format if memory serves with the Bogie Man, Green Candles and others, but I haven't seen them move very quickly. Those I'd call graphic novels, but it's just my opinion, which only counts if I repost it five times or five other posters agree with me (I'll check on that rule, but I'm pretty sure if I have a unique opinion to certain users who post far more than I yet have the time to lead a more exciting lifestyle than I obviously do, then I'm a shut-in with bad breath who shudders next to girls and listens to Take That records).

You're a mod, check on that, would you flux, sweety?

No star here laces

15:24 / 16.07.03

Couple of points (apologies if repetitive - have skipped some posts..)

Firstly, as far as conventions and people with standing orders at comic shops not representing ' the market' - this is incorrect. There is a principle of business, which applies to all markets, called the "80-20 rule". This rule says that 20% of your customers will provide 80% of your income, no matter what your product. So comics is exactly like every other industry in that it is largely reliant on a small group of big spenders.

Secondly, there is an extremely good business reason why a publishing arm producing periodical comics is a good thing for a company like Marvel to have. Comics are an extremely low-cost yet accessible way of producing new stories and characters and testing them in front of an audience. If I were Marvel i would be commissioning as many new characters as possible and then cancelling anything that had not built up a fanbase after 6 issues. This would give them a solid core of good characters and plotlines that they could be fairly certain could be successful movies and merchandising opportunities. If Marvel's business model relies on a constant supply of new characters for movies (the first movie in the series always gets higher sales) then their business is not sustainable without a publishing division with which to generate new intellectual property.

Of course, making everything creator-owned would fuck this up for them right royally...

00:22 / 17.07.03

If I were Marvel i would be commissioning as many new characters as possible and then cancelling anything that had not built up a fanbase after 6 issues. This would give them a solid core of good characters and plotlines that they could be fairly certain could be successful movies and merchandising opportunities.

Would they be as successful as, say, Darkhawk? Or Sleepwalker? Or Silver Sable? (That said, I know Night Thrasher has been touted for a TV series.)

To be honest, the last character to come anywhere near this 'could be fairly certain could be' projected outcome was the Punisher or Blade. Or maybe Elektra, who I see stars on ice lollies at my cornershop. All were created in the region of 20 years ago.

Character turnover retains the same glacial pace, while concept is where comics find themselves ripped off by their successful, popular big brother mediums.

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