BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


My anti-Harry Potter rant

 
  

Page: 123(4)5

 
 
Quantum
14:23 / 22.10.07
Pullman managed to have a pair of gay characters who were in a relationship (although they were, admittedly, angels). I don't think it harmed him too much, but then the whole tyrant God bit had already probably done for his born again numbers.

Quite. I don't know though, Rowling roused the witch-hunt lobby early on and lost a lot of that bloc ("It is good that you enlighten people about Harry Potter because these are subtle seductions which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul before it can grow properly," wrote the Pope).
Given that the fundies already hate HP and JKR is already richer than the queen, she was in a good position to go the extra inch and make the man love explicit.

OTOH, she recently admitted the whole series was Christian allegory "To me, the religious parallels have always been obvious," Rowling said, so maybe she takes it really seriously and is struggling internally with the conflict between teh gay and the Church of Scotland she belongs to. The CoS does seem to be split on the issue between 'civil partnerships are OK' and 'gay sex, a depravity that is against the word of God'.
I think it's her own attitude to homosexuality that led her to keep it so low key rather than fear of reduced sales.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:28 / 22.10.07
Maybe she just doesn't care?
 
 
Hieronymus
21:21 / 23.10.07
TIME magazine's John Cloud has a succinct criticism of the outing, effectively castigating it as the usual societal closet/iron maiden at work:

But as far as we know, Dumbledore had not a single fully realized romance in 115 years of life. That's pathetic, and a little creepy. It's also a throwback to an era of pop culture when the only gay characters were those who committed suicide or were murdered. As Vito Russo's The Celluloid Closet: Homosexuality in the Movies (1981) points out, in film after film of the mid-century—Rebel Without a Cause; Rebecca; Suddenly, Last Summer—the gay characters must pay for their existence with death. Like a lisping weakling, Dumbledore is a painfully selfless, celibate, dead gay man, so forgive me if I don't see Rowling's revelation as great progress.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
18:21 / 24.10.07
I know it's in no way in the text, but it seems to make it a bit better for me if I imagine the hunky young adult Dumbledore depicted in the flashbacks to Voldemort's school days having an awful lot of incredibly good sex. Doesn't make Rowlings writing and statements and writing arounbd this issue any less unpleasant, but it makes me happier.
 
 
Ridiculous Man
05:52 / 25.10.07
Of course, there's the whole issue of whether or not Rowling retains control of the characters outside the body of the work. Or is it less of a death of the author thing because she's presiding over a franchise/product?
 
 
Mistoffelees
08:00 / 25.10.07
I know it's in no way in the text, but it seems to make it a bit better for me if I imagine the hunky young adult Dumbledore depicted in the flashbacks to Voldemort's school days having an awful lot of incredibly good sex.

Hm. Dumbledore was born in 1881. Voldemort was at Hogwarts ca 1937 - 1943. So Dumbledore would have been 56 - 62 years old. But you might still be able to pull off young and hunky at that age, even without being a super sorcerer.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
08:18 / 25.10.07
True. It's been years since I read the Chamber of Secrets, but I seem to remember Dumbledore being described as looking quite young and whilst not said in so many words, extremely fanciable in the scences in that book, and that's what I was basing that on.
 
 
astrojax69
08:51 / 30.10.07
and here's me thinking hagrid was the hunk...
 
 
Janean Patience
10:11 / 30.10.07
Not intending really to defend Rowling as I'm no fan of the work, but isn't the archaic view of homosexuality as a youthful passion that blights lives of a piece with the class-conscious boarding school tradition she's working in? The Malory Towers books, IIRC, always had a few mistresses who had loved with too little restraint in their younger days and had reconciled themselves to lives without any such passions as punishment. All Rowling's done is fail to update the patterns of these people's lives while switching a sexuality. It's a major problem with the Potter books; you've read them all before, if you've read at all widely in children's literature. Not much that's new is brought to the table. And kids like it that way, I guess. And adults.

What bugged me about the way Hogwarts was run was Slytherin and the sorting hat, telling kids at 11 years of age that they were evil, conniving little bastards who’d be put with the rest of their kind. The 11-plus fucked up the post-war generation mightily; how much more damage is this likely to do? Is it really good practice to condemn these potentially powerful children to a lifetime of contempt from their classmates who are being groomed for cushy civil service jobs at the Ministry of Magic?
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
10:19 / 30.10.07
Absolutely. Especially because the balance of the houses always seems to be equal. 25% of all kids are evil?
 
 
Janean Patience
10:48 / 30.10.07
Well, I'm not necessarily arguing with the ratio. At my school I'd argue it was closer to 30 per cent.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:34 / 30.10.07
What bugged me about the way Hogwarts was run was Slytherin and the sorting hat, telling kids at 11 years of age that they were evil, conniving little bastards who’d be put with the rest of their kind.

Ah, well. You don't _have_ to be evil to be Slytherin - Snape wasn't, for example, and Slughorn, when Slytherin were finally ejected from Hogwarts, as suggested way back in Harry Potter and the Ounce of Sense came back with an impromptu Parents' Evening. Nonetheless...
 
 
Janean Patience
12:58 / 30.10.07
See, I wasn't that good a kid at school. I talked too much, I didn't do homework, I was always late, I'd get angry at teachers. Maybe I was borderline, but I reckon that judgmental fucking hat would have stuck me in Slytherin, ignoring that spark of me that yearned to be good.

(I've read less than one of the books and reluctantly saw two films, so I'm no expert, but don't Gryffindor always win the Quidditch? Isn't Harry a total jock? And so isn't Slytherin House for victims of the oldest of school prejudices: the place for boys and girls who are bad at games?)

And once I was in Slytherin, one of the black sheep, would I have got on? Would I have failed there, unable to commit to evil, or would I have succeeded? Perhaps that's what scares me most; maybe, condemned to darkness, I would have embraced the darkness. Mediocre anywhere else, as a follower of Voldemort I could have excelled.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:25 / 30.10.07
I've read less than one of the books and reluctantly saw two films, so I'm no expert, but don't Gryffindor always win the Quidditch? Isn't Harry a total jock? And so isn't Slytherin House for victims of the oldest of school prejudices: the place for boys and girls who are bad at games?

Not exactly. Slytherin had consistently won the house championship (based on the addition and subtraction of points from individual students based on academic performance, adherence to the rules of the school and being Harry Potter) until the arrival of Harry Potter, and consistently lost it from then on, usually by the last-minute gifting of a points bonus to Harry Potter for being Harry Potter from Dumbledore, who is notionally impartial but in fact games the entire system.

Potter turns out to have a genius for Quidditch, and specifically for the part of quidditch that ends the game and in almost every case gives the win to Harry Potter's side - Gryffindor win three of the four Quidditch competitions held in the books.

So, yes - Harry Potter is a jock - he is also incredibly rich and hugely famous, and has exceptional magic powers, which makes J.K Rowling's attempts to portray him as the plucky but oppressed underdog somewhat ludicrous. However, Slytherin's Quidditch team is generally pretty competitive. So, Potter is a jock, but we have to pretend that he is the victim of persecution from the less jocky jocks - Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle - who are in fact hugely less popular than he is.
 
 
teleute
15:41 / 30.10.07
I'm not sure that Malfoy was less popular than Potter, he had his own clique in the Slytherin camp. And he never came across as poor, despite his family issues towards the end of the series.

I've read some fairly amusing fanwank regarding Potter and Malfoy's gay love interest following Malfoy's redemption in book seven. The redemption never did run true for me. But then, little of book seven did.
 
 
Janean Patience
16:10 / 30.10.07
Potter turns out to have a genius for Quidditch, and specifically for the part of Quidditch that ends the game and in almost every case gives the win to Harry Potter's side

Another issue. "Arsenal are beating Chelsea six-nil, they've absolutely dominated the game, it's been a superb performance against abject opponents, and - oh - Drogba's got the golden bollock and Chelsea win." I imagine the crowd might feel a little cheated?

What house you reckon the hat would put you in, Haus? Be honest.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:14 / 30.10.07
I'm not sure that Malfoy was less popular than Potter, he had his own clique in the Slytherin camp.

Well, exactly. Barring the Diggory episode, I think that makes them about 33% as popular. Probably richer - and certainly more able to get hold of that money, for example by kitting out his quidditch team with top-spec brooms - but, you know, very rich kid against also very rich kid is not exactly the classic underdog line.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
16:44 / 30.10.07
I imagine the crowd might feel a little cheated?

It seemed like a strange mechanism to be sure, but I doubt it would make a game less exciting to watch, knowing it could still get reversed at the last minute. keeps the losers still playing as hard as they can even at the end, just in case. keeps the crowd from getting up and leaving halfway through.

yeah, actually it seems like a great, if weird, idea - maybe not in terms of games theory, not that I know anything about game theory, but in terms of making sports a little more spectacular and profitable. isn't the Superbowl normally a pretty shitty game, precisely because it's a total mismatch and almost always very one sided? I might actually tune in for more than the halftime show if the 49ers might still lose even though it's 347 to 0.

Potter's a total underdog in the Muggle world, where he has no money, no friends, pretty much no anything. which makes him act like an underdog in the wizarding world most of the time, since he's not used to having any real power and doesn't really seem to know what to do with it, sometimes. Which is how it's possible for us to forget, sometimes, that he's actually got the best of everything.

Really, it's all like a lot of wish fulfillment, poor picked on kid gets everything he ever could have wanted. Right from the start - in fact, especially at the start, in muggle land, with talking snakes and flying motorcycles and Harry living under the stairs - it's been a sort of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory remake. Unfortunately, much of that weirdness sort of climaxes early in the first book and then turns into the school stuff, which was for me quite a letdown, though still fun enough for me to finish it up.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:44 / 30.10.07
Another issue. "Arsenal are beating Chelsea six-nil, they've absolutely dominated the game, it's been a superb performance against abject opponents, and - oh - Drogba's got the golden bollock and Chelsea win." I imagine the crowd might feel a little cheated?

Absolutely. As a contest, quidditch absolutely sucks, because all the effort of everybody involved apart from the two seekers will in almost every game - since in almost every game the Snitch is caught before a 100-point difference in the score opens up between the teams - end up making no real difference to the identity of the winners. I think only one quidditch game in the whole series is not won by the capture of the snitch.

What house you reckon the hat would put you in, Haus? Be honest.

Ravenclaw? Meaning that I am basically underdeveloped, but I do get to hang out with Cho Chang, the pretty Ravenclaw seeker.
 
 
Quantum
16:53 / 30.10.07
keeps the losers still playing as hard as they can even at the end, just in case.

Isn't it more likely the team members would try really hard to cripple the opposing seeker and just ignore the other (pointless) balls? If I were Quidditch coach I'd be training everyone to mob Harry like a flock of crows then all look for the snitch while the opponents waste their time scoring goals and fighting bludgers.
 
 
Quantum
16:55 / 30.10.07
...or mob Cho the pretty Ravenclaw seeker if we were playing Ravenclaw, obvs. If Hufflepuff are the opponents then you can just laugh at them basically, they're doomed to be losers.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
01:10 / 31.10.07
ah. yeah, that's a good point.

if winning by Snitch was a very rare thing, it'd be nice to have that little hope alive. the way it stands, it's really a bunch of people working like mad to stall for time, with the only real contest being between the Seekers.

looking at it like that, it's a really stupid game, and I seem to remember finding that annoying before myself.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
08:44 / 31.10.07
Is that her full name, 'Cho Chang, the pretty Ravenclaw seeker'?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:38 / 31.10.07
Really, it's all like a lot of wish fulfillment, poor picked on kid gets everything he ever could have wanted.

As has been said before, it's basically a love letter to the assisted places scheme.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:41 / 31.10.07
EXCEPT HE'S REALLY RICH.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
12:21 / 31.10.07
he BECOMES rich. for the first decade or so of his life, he lives as an extremely poor muggle kid, with a lot of undeserved and unexplained prejudice from his relatives.

suddenly finding out that he is rich (and famous, and powerful) is the wish fulfillment part of the story.

then the other half of the first book, and all of the next six, are a completely different and (for me) less enjoyable good vs evil prophecy story set in a strange school.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
12:25 / 31.10.07
which, I suppose, makes the words "it's all like" rather inaccurate.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:30 / 31.10.07
This is true. Whereas the assisted place child would have to pretend to be rich at school, and then go to Oxford or Cambridge, where they would meet lots of genuinely rich people from similar schools who are pretending to be poor.
 
 
grant
16:14 / 31.10.07
if I were Quidditch coach I'd be training everyone to mob Harry like a flock of crows then all look for the snitch

Isn't that what happens in the one game not won by a seeker? I honestly can't remember.
 
 
Baz Auckland
21:55 / 02.11.07
I thought the one game not won by a seeker was the World Cup one?
 
 
Jack Fear
22:38 / 02.11.07
Yes.
 
 
wicker woman
07:02 / 05.11.07
Did the books ever explicitly say Harry was rich? The only time we ever really get a peek inside his Gringott's vault is in the first book. It was described as being a fair amount of money, as I remember, but hell, $50, $60,000 even would seem like a lot of money to an 11-year old; doesn't mean it's going to last all that long after 6 years of magic school tuition, books, robes, etc.

Maybe there's a special "YOUR PARENTS GOT KILLED BY FREAKING VOLDEMORT" insurance payoff, or something.
 
 
Quantum
07:21 / 05.11.07
Is that her full name, 'Cho Chang, the pretty Ravenclaw seeker'?

Yes, it is.
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:40 / 05.11.07
doesn't mean it's going to last all that long after 6 years of magic school tuition, books, robes, etc.

I was under the impression that Hogwarts wasn't actually a public school, it just looked and acted like one. It's probably funded by muggle taxes, given what a bloody totalitarian wizard-o-cracy the Potter-verse United Kingdom is.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:55 / 05.11.07
Bloody wizards, coming into our country, stealing our money and Confounding our driving instructors...
 
  

Page: 123(4)5

 
  
Add Your Reply