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Marvel Boy II Not Happening

 
  

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penitentvandal
18:23 / 24.06.03
Maybe we should try to position crack squads of highly-trained teen actors in Jemas' path, all of them dressed in what his idea of cool is, saying things like 'Dude, they rilly, like, need to do Marvel Boy 2, dude. It was like, so rad. And, uh, gnarly [whispers]Would he say that? Would he think 'gnarly' was a cool thing to say? Okay...'

And I mean we should put them everywhere. Outside his office. In his kitchen. In his car. In his pants.

He'll break within days, I'm telling you.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:32 / 24.06.03
An e-mail I just wrote to Joe Quesada:

To: JoeydaQ@aol.com (his real email addy, it's public knowledge
so I'm not spoiling anything by listing it here, fans write to him
at that address all the time)

Dear Joe,

I'm still upset with Marvel for firing Waid off FF; he was terrific for the book and he left some very big shoes for the new writer to fill, but I will give the new writer a chance. This sort of thing reeks of the Old Marvel, though -- i.e. editorial interference leading a terrific creator to quit or to be fired before his/her well-received run has barely even begun.

But that's not why I'm writing; as far as I'm concerned, that's all water under the bridge at this point. I'm writing because of a disturbing bit in Rich Johnston's latest LYING IN THE GUTTERS -- MARVEL BOY 2 will not happen because Bill Jemas requested changes that Grant Morrisson didn't want to make? Is this true? (I'm not accepting it as fact since it's in Rich's column.) As much as I could see how Marvel Boy-as-terrorist-fighting the US Military, having declared war on humanity might be somewhat problematic (esp. given Noh-Varr's huge Sept. 11-esque "fuck you" in the miniseries), I, like many other readers, love Grant's work and was really looking forward to this series.

Put simply: is there still hope for Marvel Boy 2's survival? Or is it truly, officially a done deal because of editorial differences?

Thanks,

Tony Wolf
 
 
FinderWolf
18:34 / 24.06.03
I think the above is pretty polite, honest and non-offensive. Thoughts?
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
18:40 / 24.06.03
That's right, you're one Bad Motherfucker!

Duly noted. And yay.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
18:49 / 24.06.03
Jack, what was so brilliant about Marvel Biy was that it quietly addressed a few things that had never been addressed before. A living, viral corperation that cares only about itself. The government's allowing Midas to do what ever he wants to exterterrestials and other humans. SHIELD's attempt at remaking a superweapon that had proved uncontrollable before(the Bannermen). The whole serious was full of great ideas.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:55 / 24.06.03
oh, and let me shiver before the One Bad Motherfucker

*shiver*

 
 
Jack Fear
19:05 / 24.06.03
Jack, what was so brilliant about Marvel Biy was that it quietly addressed a few things that had never been addressed before. ... The government's allowing Midas to do what ever he wants to exterterrestials and other humans. SHIELD's attempt at remaking a superweapon that had proved uncontrollable before(the Bannermen)...

Oh, yeah, I can see why every man, woman, and child on the planet needs to read that.

This information is of vital importance to, say, a kid in Mozambique who's just had his leg blown off by a landmine.





Get a fucking grip.
 
 
PatrickMM
19:30 / 24.06.03
Oh, yeah, I can see why every man, woman, and child on the planet needs to read that.

This information is of vital importance to, say, a kid in Mozambique who's just had his leg blown off by a landmine.


Maybe saying everyone on the planet has to read it is an overstatement, but I think a kid in Mozambique would love to have an escape from his life, and the pure fun adventures of Marvel Boy would serve well. Marvel Boy works because it is a very intelligent action story, something that is almost never seen, and the ideas in it were simply incredible. Maybe reading about these incredible concepts would be an escape for people who are trapped in dull and dreary lives.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
19:37 / 24.06.03
Without invoking mutilated children - Spyder, do you really think Marvel Boy was the first place the idea of a government-sanctioned baddy experimenting on humans and aliens was ever expressed? Did that long-running (largely tedious) TV series about the two FBI agents pass you by entirely, to pick just one of many, many mainstream pop-culture examples?

Um, I liked the original Marvel Boy, for the pretty art and the throwaway ideas and the snappy lines - I thought it was Morrison's Britney/Justin ultra-pop album, in the best possible way, fetish suits and all. I think the idea that it "quietly addressed" anything is laughable - it didn't do *anything* quietly, surely? I would have quite liked another series, although the prospect of Phil Winslade as artist was a little bit discouraging, since I really didn't care for some of his recent work, and as I said, I thought J.G. Jones made the first MB series what it was. But I'm not going to lose any sleep or write any angry letters even if this rumour does turn out to be true.
 
 
Hieronymus
19:40 / 24.06.03
And what do you read for entertainment Jack? Jesus. Try climbing down off your fucking high horse.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:45 / 24.06.03
** UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE **

Just received a personal response from Joe Quesada in response to my e-mail (no kidding!!). This is what it reads:

>> You can't believe everything you read in Rich's column. Just yesterday I got off the phone with Grant as we were planning future X-Men arcs. As I always do with Grant I brought up MB2 since I have his very detailed proposal sitting on my desk. Grant's answer for the last few months has been the same, he will absolutely get to it however he has some pretty impressive Hollywood work that will put him out of comics commission for three months so things like MB2
have to wait.

>> That is the actual story

I thanked Joe for his personal and speedy response.

I also agree that Phil W. isn't the best choice for it (J.G. Jones was SO perfect for it!), but hey, he's still a good artist and I'd rather see the sequel with Phil W. than not at all.

Then again, by the time Grant does get to writing it, maybe they'll pick a different artist.
 
 
Jack Fear
19:47 / 24.06.03
Easy, there, son.

Let's look again at the claims that Spyder was making for the work—his words, not mine:

Personally, after reading the first one, I thought that it should be handed out to everyone on the planet. Besides simply being insanely cool, the story said some hard things that no one really wants to hear at all...

Bold claims, those. Is it wrong to ask him to back those claims up? And am I wrong to call him on it when the evidence falls short?

For what it's worth, I read and enjoyed Marvel Boy. But I would never claim that it was in any way an "important" work.
 
 
Hieronymus
20:07 / 24.06.03
I'm certainly not your son, Jack. Though you're welcome to wield your smug pejoratives however you see fit. Anything else would be a surprise, frankly, coming from you.

Second, importance is completely subjective to individual taste. Sure Marvel Boy was fluff entertainment but, as with a lot of Grant's ideas, they're fun precisely because they're abnormal and off the rails of most comic book pop rollercoasters. The Hex idea is a nice little memetic chewtoy for instance. If Spyder thinks they're worthy of being passed around the planet, more power to him. Though I think you'll find it was more an expression of love for the comic and a concern that Jemas is interested in the status quo than an endorsement of it as some sort of neo political manifesto or revolutionary tract.

Or maybe derision is easier than asking him what he meant.
 
 
FinderWolf
21:46 / 24.06.03
Anyone care that Joe Q. just emailed me and said it's still on, amidst the fierce debate about the artistic merits of MARVEL BOY?

I e-mailed Rich Johnston a copy of the message Joe Q. sent me, and Rich responded with only the words "The little liar..." Which makes me wonder what the hell is going on. Ah well.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
22:16 / 24.06.03
I just love the notion that evil corporations, rampant mad scientists, and uncontrollable super-weapons have never been addressed before, much less never been addressed by mainstream comic books.

I mean, I guess those are new ideas if you've never been exposed to a majority of superhero/sciene fiction....
 
 
Jack Denfeld
22:16 / 24.06.03
What you have to realise is that Joey Q doesn't actually answer emails from fans. He has set up Fabian Nicieza to answer all unsolicited emails, and this is all Fabian does.
 
 
sleazenation
22:38 / 24.06.03
Hey kids play nice - all this petty bickering is reminding me of the comicon message boards. This is not a good thing.
 
 
Tamayyurt
22:53 / 24.06.03
Joe or not, it still makes me feel a lot better, thanks for the initiative, Mr. Wolf.
 
 
Mr Tricks
23:16 / 24.06.03
I hope Marvel does come out with MB2.

Worried about Phil W's art... it's been going a bit down hill.

I occasionally get annoyed by comments about the tragic life of kids in Africa or where-ever typed from the comforts of one's keyboard. Ever been to Mozambique Jack? or Africa? or South America?

Not trying to start any flam war but those kind of comments smell vaguely of White-Man's-Burden when not substantiated by actual experience
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
00:50 / 25.06.03
Yes, and I can't say for sure that Mr. Fear's comments weren't made simply to get a rise out of Spyder. They certainly didn't seem to be in any way constructive. As you've demonstrated countless times in the past, you're an intelligent and enlightened man, Jack. I'm thinking that points can be made w/o the derision and are, thereby, made all the more valid. But that could just be me.

As for Marvel Boy the second: eh. I could honestly take it or leave it. I have to side w/those who view the first mini as a relatively minor Morrison work. Didn't exactly set my world on fire. Much love, though, to those for whom it did.
 
 
The Falcon
03:00 / 25.06.03
Perhaps Spyder was being a bit hyperbolic in his enthusiasm, Jack. I know you're prone to either of the above, but really...

Why do people write in threads to evince said person's comtempt of said thread's content, all the time, on every fucking messageboard? What, precisely, is the need to do this all about?

Yadda-yadda. Anyway, I'll be a bit gutted if this doesn't come out. I was looking forward to the advertised 'violence beyond meaning' therein, personally.
 
 
onorthocrasi
05:08 / 25.06.03
First of all thank you hunterwolf for the vital information.

However in "joe quesada's" response to you he makes it sound as if MB2 has not been written.

I am almost certain even though it does not say this now on Grant- Morrison.com the comic news area a few months ago used to say something like:

MARVEL BOY 2
The script is completed. Phil Winslade has been chosen to pencil it.


I would appreciate if any fellow posters could either confirm or deny this memory of mine, it appears quite concrete within my memory.

If my recall is accurate it could imply a few possibilies including (but not limited to):

-Morrison is rewriting it out of his own need to revise
and improve his work, consequently changing the tone of the information about MB2 on his website in order to better mirror this fact.
-Morrison has been asked to rewrite the script by someone within marvel and has agreed. He has changed the information on his website to reflect this.
-Marvel Boy 2 is no longer coming out or is in serious jeopardy because of Marvel's internal conflicts and interested parties feelings and actions about it. The content of Grant-Morrison.com has changed because of these new developments.

All in all it is an interesting situation and my major question is if MB2 was already written why does JoeQ (or whoever is responding for him) make it sound like it was never written?
 
 
onorthocrasi
05:11 / 25.06.03
Sorry about my triple post, i realize my mistake and it will not happen again.
 
 
Jack Fear
12:28 / 25.06.03
All: Don't read anything into my sniping that's not there.

The kid from from Mozambique was a random example of the human population, although I concede that it was an ill-chosen one, because it is so emotionally loaded. Apologies.

How about this: I seriously doubt Marvel Boy would prove a life-changing experience for, say, a soccer mom in Omaha, or a paramedic in Maine, or a retiree in a nursing home in Florida...

...or, I would argue (as others have already done), indeed for anyone who's not already a comics or science fiction fan and therefore likely to get off by watching the conventions of same being (mildly) subverted. And, as we know, comics and SF fans are but a tiny subset (and not a particularly representative one, at that) of the entire human population.

You dug it. I dug it. Comics fandom dug it.
Nobody else gives a shit.
Get over yourselves.
 
 
The Falcon
13:52 / 25.06.03
Actually, I was thinking the kid in your first example might enjoy it, you know. The others less so.
 
 
Mr Tricks
16:44 / 25.06.03
How many soccor moms in Omaha do you know!?!?! eh!!! Eh!! I thought So!!!

Seriously though, I thought Marvel Boy was great fun simply for the sake of having Jack frost blowing up the Marvel Universe... but yeah it's sort of derivative.

thanks for the Apologies Jack...

& couldn't Frank Quietly draw Marvel Boy?
 
 
Jack Fear
17:24 / 25.06.03
How many soccor moms in Omaha do you know!?!?! eh!!! Eh!! I thought So!!!

My mother-in-law is a soccer mom in Omaha, in fact, and I think I can safely say the Marvel Boy would cut no ice with her.

She's more a Global Frequency type (well, she digs Tom Clancy...).
 
 
FinderWolf
19:42 / 25.06.03
Rich Johnston wrote me back when I asked him to clarify his "the little liar..." comment. I asked "Are you saying that you have information to the contrary that you feel very confident about?"

And he responded "It would have seemed so...." So who knows. But I told him a lot of Morrison fans were upset at this idea of MB2 not coming out and that his column bit would help to get support.

And yes, I do remember Grant saying "MB2 is written; Phil W. is penciling it" on his site.

Where did you get this idea about Fabian Niceza answering Joe's emails? I've never heard of this before and I can't tell if you were kidding or not.

I've gotten several personal responses from Joe and they all read and sound like Joe's style of speech, having read lots of his comments in interviews and such, I feel like I have a decent sense of his verbal/word style. But who knows.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
20:11 / 27.06.03
Okay, so not everything in MB was original- though I would like to see more Hex-ish enitities (Gudan, the Living cheese!!!)- but it was cool. Plus, I dig the Kree, so I was probably talking bigger then I should about the story.
According to something I read a bit ago, Narvel Boy II was going to have the Ultimate lable on it, because of inaccuraces in countinuity in it with the standard Marvel universe. Who knows more about that?
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
23:11 / 27.06.03
I'm wondering if one of th changes was taking it from a Mainstream Marvel Universe Title and setting it in the Ultimate Universe simply because some retard at Wizard can't read.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
23:18 / 27.06.03
It's also pretty much accepted that Joey Da Q lies like a rug and often blathers on about stuff he has no idea about. Hell, that very same issue of LITG that talks abotu MB2 has JDQ making and ASS out of himself over comments by SW scribe Micha Wright about EPIC and JoeAIM.

Jesus... too many fucking acronyms.

KRS
 
 
A beautiful tunnel of ghosts
13:09 / 28.06.03
Hi Jack - although I wrote to you at the time I'd like to say thanks again for those Doom Patrols you were kind enough to give me a couple of years back. Having read the posts above, my 2 cents:

Marvel Boy is published by Marvel, whose content is bought and paid for by Bill Jemas et al. If Jemas doesn't agree with what any of his writers produce, he has the right to ask for changes. Work-for-hire. It's a business, and he's a businessman.

From what I remember reading about The Filth, this was Morrison's aborted concept for a SHIELD miniseries, as evidenced by their supporting role in Marvel Boy. Morrison can, should he wish, take his Marvel Boy II concept and alter it in the same way.

Morrison, Jemas and Quesada are all notorious for their respective abilities to court controversy and self-publicise, and Rich Johnston has no complaints about being thrown such a curveball knowing this about all three men. This could simply be yet another New Marvel publicity stunt.

Agreeing with Jack and other posters, I think that Marvel Boy, like New X-Men, is Morrison-lite - while interesting, especially the belief-driven spaceship, I consider the concepts to be at the low end of Morrison's output and seem to be jumping-on points for Morrison's other work - which, as a writer, Morrison is likely to do. JG Jones' artwork was excellent and Morrison's widescreen action, for me, surpassed the Bruckheimer/Simpson Authority. Whatever the real story - which I'm sure someone will ask Morrison about when he appears at San Diego - if the second Marvel Boy series isn't published then it doesn't seem like any great loss - the concepts will be used elsewhere and the characters and plotline changed, perhaps to something even better. The pitfalls of working for companies, it would seem.
 
 
eeoam
16:22 / 28.06.03
It surprises me when writers freely admit taking concepts that they originally developed for work for hire projects and channeling them into creator owned work.

Given the intellectual property insanity disease which has gripped entertainment companies, are they not worried that the company would try to assert ownership on the creator owned property claiming that it is in fact a derivative work of original work for hire project?
 
 
---
16:36 / 30.07.04
"However, on the other hand, "Marvel Boy" II is not happening because Bill Jemas wants to change the script, and Grant Morrison doesn't."

Who? Who the fuck is he? Bill Clampdown? I've just seen something to do with this not happening in the Seaguy thread aswell and i'm PISSED off.

I feel like Marvel may aswell be the fucking system, why did Bill whoever want to change the script? Too anarchist for him? This is fucking stupid. At the least they could of met each other halfway?

Fucking hell i wanna SCREAM!!!

I can't/won't/will never be able to put across on an internet message board how much this pisses me off. I fucking loved Marvel Boy and i don't think that for me personally, anything other than The Invisibles will ever be able to come close . So, please does anyone know anymore details about this?

Fucking hell, the Kree boy fights for freedom, goes anarchist and even fucking Marvel shit it and now it isn't coming out. It's bad enough that the governments are fucked, never mind Marvel people doing the clampdown shit too. Gods and Goddesses it's times like this that i HATE this fucking world.

Unbelievable.

Yeah i know, i'm just pissed off.
 
 
---
16:42 / 30.07.04
I hope that Grant sees whoever's working at Marvel after Bill Jemas is gone and gets something going, or Bill changes his mind, or they compromise, because this is really sad.

I just don't feel like i've done enough, what can we do to help get this made?

Black magick? I'd seriously consider it. Or maybe i am considering it.
 
  

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