BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


What is "gay sex"?

 
  

Page: 12(3)

 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:11 / 20.05.03
I think there is something in this, though I think that gay sex can provoke a certain anxiety that is not common to all forms of 'sex for fun'. As has been noted above, lesbian sex is a bit different and fetishistic sex, though weird, just doesn't come in for the same criticism.

i think it's important to distinguish here between sex between men and "gay sex". If gay sex is the threatening spectre of "fun", then possibly it includes, in a sense, fetishistic sex.

Like this: take the Spanner case. Is the point there that the "victims" are male, or that they are cutting each other open? It's probably a bit of both, and certainly what they were doing might challenge boundaries of how one defines "sex", just as, if we're talking about putting your penis into another person's vagina as sex, that penis having to be a part of your biology and not attached temporarily, then two people of the same biological sex apparently can't have sex.

Which reminds me of a TV programme, almost inevitably on Channel 5, about the deaths of rock stars and other celebs, including Dear Old Michael Hutchence. At the end of the programme, the lead-out had the narrator intoning:

"Drink, drugs and wrong sex were responsible for the deaths of these men and women."

And it strikes me that "wrong sex" is a very powerful and useful phrase, as well as being frickin' hilarious. So, gay sex is the Ganesh's Christian chums, "wrong sex", and the great thing about that is that it doesn't have to limit itself by describing particular actions - it is simply anything that is sufficiently sexual to be wrong, or sufficiently wrong to be sex. That ties quite nicely into Mister Disco's idea that what is upsetting or threatening about "gay sex" is its apparent lack of broader purpose. Where I think there may be a set of other avenues to explore, about media treatments of gay sex and their normalising effect, and conversely how heterosexual sex is the Swiss Army Knife of narrative structure, but this is all a bit half-formed.
 
 
pomegranate
14:53 / 21.05.03
and what makes it uniquely a "gay" sex act, as opposed to, say, a male-male sex act?
woaah. male-male sex isn't gay? my head hurts...
yes, i know, labels boo labels blah blah. but *words* are there for a purpose, to *describe* things. if i can't call male-male sex gay, i...i just don't know what i'm going to do. even if both men are bisexual, ok, it's not that they themselves have to be called gay. but the act...to me, is gay. since you asked.

i think "wrong sex" could be the best phrase i've heard all year. especially picturing a stuffy dude on tv saying it.
 
 
Tom Coates
16:43 / 21.05.03
For possibly not the first time, and probably not the last time I'm going to just lower the tone a minute (although if anyone else does it I swear to god I'll hunt you down) and say loud and proud that I really really enjoy giving men head. It's fucking great. Cock is good.
 
 
cusm
19:12 / 21.05.03
Mantis, the difference between gay sex and male-male sex acts is that in gay sex, at least one of the participants is a faggot. I mean really, isn't that the root of what these folks are trying to say by dodging behind labels like this? Aah, sweet denial...

And thank you, Tom. Bravo
 
 
Disco is My Class War
06:11 / 22.05.03
Thankyou, whoever it was, for the lesson in anatomy, and I will think about this next time I get fucked in the ass. Because being a fag, and also having a cunt, and a cock (thought no testicles since last I checked) I am probably the best living proof you're gonna get that gay sex is not sex between men (or meals), and that not having a prostate prevents one from enjoying anal sex as much as any other man.

And go Tom.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:59 / 22.05.03
Well, yes. I think that cusm's approach - that anyone who defines the sex they have in any way other than "gay" if it involves another man (whatever that means) is in great big honking denial - is clearly incomplete, in much the same way that the claim that the prostate gland and the g-spot were the same organ was incomplete. We are also invisibilising lesbians again. I'm teetering on the edge of the suspicion that this is because they don't actually fit into the "wrong sex/purposeless sex" category, because, as Ganesh mentioned earlier, sort of, lesbian sex - whatever that means - does have a purpose. It's great for straight men to watch, or think about.
 
 
diz
19:38 / 22.05.03
Yeah...if ANYONE can give me an explanation why sex between two men is considered gross by the vast majority of US society, while sex between two women is considered hot by the exact same people, I'd love to hear it.

for what it's worth, which may not be much, i've noticed a distinct upsurge in the number of people who identify as straight women who also claim to find watching gay sex hot in the last few years.

I think you may be aiming for the idea that biomales have their prostate in a place that *might* be stimulated by anal sex, which *might* produce a particular feeling, which will not be produced in anal sex with a woman.

i think i'd like to throw in my $0.02 here and note that the anus has a hell of a lot of nerve endings, for pretty much everyone.

i'd also like to back up Mister Disco on the polymorphous perversity front. i think it's a big part of what freaks certain people out about queer issues, and not just about queer issues. as an example, i remember hearing a lot of noise a few years ago about groups "concerned parents" who were horrified to discover that teenage oral sex was running rampant. apparently, these carpet munchers and blowjob queens didn't even consider what they were doing sex, and there was a concerted effort to educate teens about the "hard truth": that oral sex was sex (of course, they blamed it on Clinton for the Lewinski thing, because clearly no one got a blow job in high school before 1997).

the potential for some sort of sneakiness here is, i think, what really hit a nerve in this case. "concerned parents" work so hard at building walls around "virginity," and when any sex that isn't penis-goes-in-vagina sex slips around those barriers, by essentially exploiting the semiotic gap between what "sex" means in a traditional hetero sense and what they're doing, it really fucks people up.

i think that the reason queer sex, fetish sex, or really any sex that isn't penile-vaginal penetration is so threatening is precisely because it threatens people's very definitions of what sex is. it leads into this very sort of is-it-or-isn't-it-sex questions, and dethrones the centrality of heterosexuality, reproduction, the family structure, etc, by kicking the legs out from under the linguistic/conceptual table it's all built on, and throws everything into a kind of anarchy.

building on what cusm pointed out, how are you going to tell who's a virgin and who's a slut and who's a faggot if you can't even determine what is and is not sex?

We are also invisibilising lesbians again.

you mean, we're turning lesbians into sexy leather-clad pop-culture terrorists and chaos-magicky assassin superheroes bent on destroying reality as we know it? cool.

(sorry. that was dorky. i just couldn't help myself...)
 
 
alas
15:47 / 23.05.03
This is a fab question. If sex involves 3 people, is that inherently gay sex? Or is it probably "straight" sex if 2 of the 3 are women? Or if there are two men but they don't touch each other?
 
 
at the scarwash
17:41 / 23.05.03
Most supposedly straight men who have those fantasies would consider being with two women at once to be straight sex, just supersized. I think that a lot of guys who get off on "hot girl-on-girl action" really aren't thinking of the ladies involved as having any sort of preference for one another; they're present to gratify and titillate him. In actual, real-world threesome experiences, I guess that it all depends upon how the participants wish to define it. I think that there is something implicitly gay about two people of the same sex involved in a sexual situation together, even if there is a member of the opposite sex mediating. Hell, I think that there's something gay about a circle jerk for that matter. People should just accept it and enjoy themselves.
 
 
Char Aina
21:11 / 24.05.03
you dont really need to humour me, but if anyone could maybe at least tell me i was wrong?


or are you all set to ignore me?
 
 
Jackie Susann
04:12 / 28.05.03
Will somebody please for the love of God tell me what docking is because I really, really want to try it.
 
 
Mr Messy
10:16 / 28.05.03
Okay, so, docking. As a former professional gay person I will attempt to answer.
This is what I understand by the term. Two men - at least one must be uncircumcised. He pulls his foreskin over the head of the other mans cock. Then they move it back and forth and so on.
I believe this term/practice has originated in the US, and I don't hear so much about it in the UK. This may be because foreskins are a novelty over there. I dunno.
 
 
Spaniel
15:30 / 28.05.03
All the members of the Barbelith Underground are gayce, Runce.

Just a big bunch of Gayce!

So then, if any two (three, four...) members of the board were to sex, that would be gayce sex.
 
 
HCE
01:38 / 02.07.03
Do emotions count? If men have sex with other men but never fall in love and call themselves straight, would you consider them closeted?
 
 
Axel Lambert
09:39 / 02.07.03
Re: men being the uglier sex.
I read in Newsweek about a study where men and women were given computer-generated pictures of faces of the opposite sex, and were asked to say how attractive they thought these faces were. The men generally found the more feminine (female) faces to be more attractive - and the women also found the more feminine (male) faces more attractive.
 
 
Warewullf
12:01 / 02.07.03
Hence the proliferance of girly-boys in the media. Anytime a guy with soft "feminine" features appears on a TV prog, people swoon.
"isn't he gorgeous?" they say.
"Isn't he beautiful" they coo.
"Is he, fuck." Says I.

Personally, I find nothing attractive about the girly-boy look.
Me likes me men to look like men.
 
 
diz
12:53 / 02.07.03
and the women also found the more feminine (male) faces more attractive.

how did they define "feminine?"
 
 
pomegranate
13:23 / 02.07.03
i read that women prefer feminized* male faces, except when they're ovulating. then they prefer more masculine** faces.
* rounder cheeks, less heavy brow, etc.
** strong jawline/brow, etc.
 
 
Servalan Queen of the Universe
13:30 / 02.07.03
So what is generally referred to as 'feminine' might actually just be what is 'attractive'? To both sexes? Is it really outlandish to imagine that there could be a type of beauty which is not tied to gender....& that men can be beautiful?

Surely no coincidence that women spend hours TRYING to look 'feminine'- attractiveness being central to the current definition of woman.

This thing about men being the 'uglier sex' is almost a kind of self-indulgence on mens' part I suspect- meaning a) we don't need to be attractive/try so hard, we get sex through being unique individuals/powerful/intelligent/witty; b) women just ARE more sexy, therefore we're excused for constantly objectifying them.

It also reminds me of all that cr*p about men being 'visually stimulated' while women aren't- could that be because women have been presented as objects for centuries & still constantly are, while men generally get to do the looking & avoid the gaze?
 
 
HCE
23:03 / 02.07.03
Or to rephrase:

Gay sex: that which, if you have it and claim you are not gay, is grounds for a counterclaim that you are in the closet?

I don't really buy it. Perhaps it's easier to define 'gay porn'?
 
 
cusm
19:41 / 03.07.03
Perhaps it's easier to define 'gay porn'?

You'd be right there, cause porn is usually categorized from the perspective of a male audience. Thus, any m/m action is gay, f/f lesbian, f/m/m+ bi, and m/f/f+ just a better time for the guy. Though you'll note its only gay or bi if the boys are touching each other. No matter how many you have jerking in the bukaki circle, its still not gay unless one of them touches another one. Aparantly gang bangs are safe for the het male. How nice.
 
  

Page: 12(3)

 
  
Add Your Reply