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What is "gay sex"?

  
  

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Ganesh
20:05 / 12.05.03
Elsewhere, a poster (who was in no way opposed to gay rights) opined that "I find the idea of gay sex stomach churning". Which is disarmingly honest and all, but reminded me slightly of an attitude I encountered among some of the more 'liberal' CBBSers - in their case, very much derived from 'love the sinner, hate the sin'. They'd tell me with pixellated earnestness that they loved me but they didn't love what I 'did'. I'd ask them what, exactly, they thought I did 'do' and they'd either start talking about the 'gay lifestyle' - which was no clearer - or they'd get snarky.

So what do we mean when we say "gay sex"? Are we talking about, say, anal sex, or maybe woman-on-woman cunnilingus? Or any sex between individuals of the same phenotypical gender? Or genotypical gender? Does the phrase bear scrutiny?
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
20:14 / 12.05.03
According to the Fundies who tend to go on and on about it (like the #3 Senator did a couple of weeks ago) it is any sort of romantic contact between same sex people. I wasn't shocked at all by what the man said, just the fact that he said it around a reporter who was giving him clues to Shut Up.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:15 / 12.05.03
Isn't that like, regular sex, but not as good? Y'know, "I had sex last night but then the fire alarm went off, so it was kinda gay," or "I had sex last night, but then my girlfreind sneezed and popped me out like a cork froma bottle so we had to have a cup of tea and try again later, which was kind of gay"?
 
 
sleazenation
20:20 / 12.05.03
so, is gay sex limited to the sex that people who identify as gay or can straight people have gay sex?
 
 
Ganesh
20:20 / 12.05.03
Rose: well, this was one of the problems I had with the more Fundiesque types; they'd make broad, vague statements and then, when I groped for actual material examples, get snarky with me. Several CBBSers claimed that any 'romantic' or 'intimate' contact between individuals of the same sex was abhorrent, but found it difficult to draw the line. Buying flowers for another male, for example? Going to the cinema? Sharing a bedroom? Sharing a bed?

And yeah, sex in a Green Lantern t-shirt would be, like, sooo gay?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:34 / 12.05.03
There was a thread in the head Shop about real-life slash relationships, IIRC, but I think it was a very long time ago, and probably the board has been wiped since then, but I will see if it's about, as that might include instances of two people of the same sex having sex with each other without it being gay, or two gay people having non-gay sex.

Meanwhile, surely gay sex must be sex with a higher ambient temperature to non-gay sex?
 
 
Lurid Archive
20:56 / 12.05.03
I'm really interested in the concept of disgust at male gay sex. Why the difference between lesbians and gays? What is the source? I find it hard to believe it is somehow "natural", but it does seem to be pretty common. In genuinely exploring the issue there are a couple of potential blind alleys. For instance, I suspect that Ganesh attempts to "draw a line" on CBBS were, in part, a debating tactic since there was clear unease with frank discussion of (gay) sex. Polite confrontation can be an effective way to counter prejudice, but may be less effective in understanding it.

The disgust reported, on CBBS and perhaps more widely, was probably more at the concept of male sexual intimacy than any specific act. But tell me if I'm wrong.
 
 
Ganesh
21:10 / 12.05.03
Lurid: To a certain extent, yes, pinning the discussion down to actual examples was as much motivated by desire to challenge the 'love the sinner, hate the sin' ethos as by desire to understand - but then, the CBBSers consistently claimed Scriptural opposition rather than personal revulsion. I explored the issue of the 'disgust' reaction a little more profitably in the more moderate setting of Cross + Flame.

Regarding "gay sex" between straight-identifying people, I recall an interesting 'dinner party discussion' between Ruby Wax, Roseanne Barr and David Baddiel, in which David Baddiel talked about his penchant for anal sex with women (prompted by the fact that he'd devoted a chapter of 'Time For Bed' to it). Both Wax and Barr repeatedly put it to him that he was gay and 'in denial' if he liked that kind of sex. He was very patient with them, but I can see why more hets don't talk about it openly.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
21:37 / 12.05.03
Yeah...if ANYONE can give me an explanation why sex between two men is considered gross by the vast majority of US society, while sex between two women is considered hot by the exact same people, I'd love to hear it.

Cognative dissonance at its finest.
 
 
w1rebaby
21:40 / 12.05.03
A little difficult to pin things down for someone else, but I'd say the sort of thing that is generally referred to as "gay sex" or at least "homosexual activity" is defined by...

- physicality, I think there has to be some sort of physical behaviour involved. Don't think a dirty conversation would cut it. And it would involve mutual physical sexual stimulation. Two men helping each other move a piano, probably not. Mutual masturbation is a tricky one there; I think it would come under gay sex generally, even if there's no touching involved.
- motivated by sexual desire for the other person, who is of the same sex. Which could excludes all "experimenters" who are clearly not gay, just going through a phase, yup.

This doesn't really go any further to explaining what might be wrong with that, though.
 
 
Ganesh
21:41 / 12.05.03
Perhaps it's because the one is widely reckoned to involve putting one's pee-pee in poo-poo from a bot-bot and is therefore a no-no, while the other (notionally) involves double the cha-cha go-go fun and is happy-happy-joy-joy.
 
 
kaonashi
22:07 / 12.05.03
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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(convulses on floor)
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snort giggles "Maxim Magazine"
..........
..........
snort
..........
..........
..........

expires in a puddle of drool




Seriously Ganesh that has got to be one of the funniest things I've ever read. In my straight friends opinion you are male and gay when you have the desire to give another man head. Thats it, every thing else copuld be chalked up to confusion.
 
 
Ganesh
22:16 / 12.05.03
I've never particularly had the desire to give another man head. By that definition, I'm... what?
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
22:17 / 12.05.03
fecalphobia = disgust at gay male sex?
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
22:19 / 12.05.03
clearly your confused ganesh.
 
 
Ganesh
22:25 / 12.05.03
All this time, I've been having *gasp* straight sex?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:29 / 12.05.03
But that assumes that poo has to be involved in gay sex, Lupus. As it is, we haven't even established that bottoms need to be involved. Or, as it turns out, gay people.

So, we're rather back at square one, eh? We could all be having gay sex all the time and never know it...
 
 
kaonashi
22:32 / 12.05.03
Honestly don't know, it doesn't particularly drive me either.

And its not my definition, this is my "friend's" definition. I think the whole double standard thing extends a bit farther than previously thought. Has anyone ever thought about how bi-sexual straight pornography is anyway?

For your average hardcore porn you the straight male are enjoying watching a woman and a man have various forms of "straight" sex, but you are still watching a man have sex and enjoying it.
And don't even get me started on bukkake.

I fail to see how no one picks up on this.

I personally think that a large slice of the population is bi and either doesn't know or supresses it. But I'm already confused enough on what I am so I really can't see myself being a authority on the subject.
 
 
kaonashi
22:35 / 12.05.03
The first part of that was in response to Ganesh's question. Otherwise it doesn't make much sense.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
22:58 / 12.05.03
Oh, so know one knows what gay sex is? Or straight sex? Or whether porn is just a way of fulfilling hidden bisexual fantasies? Or how many people are actually bisexual? Or if heterosexuality even exists?

I'm really so shocked.
 
 
Ganesh
23:07 / 12.05.03
Well, something must be churning the nation's collective stomach...
 
 
kaonashi
23:26 / 12.05.03
Well some of us have only been thinking about sex and sexuality for a couple of years. So if say gender theorists had already said what we were thinking we wouldn't be aware of it.

Anyone for gay and straight are just constructions of culture and have nothing to do with attraction?

Anyone?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
23:31 / 12.05.03
Ooh, The Bill jumped on the tantalisation wagon, took them long enough!
 
 
The Falcon
01:02 / 13.05.03
Isn't that like, regular sex, but not as good? Y'know, "I had sex last night but then the fire alarm went off, so it was kinda gay," or "I had sex last night, but then my girlfreind sneezed and popped me out like a cork froma bottle so we had to have a cup of tea and try again later, which was kind of gay"?

Dude, I was totally going to say that.

I've no objection to the concept, or reality, at all: couple of lovely lads together - what could be nicer?

I assume said concept, as originally voiced, is referrent to male-only 'gaysex'?
 
 
Ganesh
06:11 / 13.05.03
I've no idea - hence the 'question' part of the thread.
 
 
Unencumbered
06:25 / 13.05.03
Most people seem to have an almost overwhelming need to compartmentalise everything. As far as I'm concerned, anything that happens between consenting adults is fine and I don't feel any great urge to define it. As long as everyone's happy, why worry?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
06:54 / 13.05.03
I think the whole "disgust" issue is largely to do with personal preference, rather than sexuality as a whole. For me, the idea of having "straight" (or, indeed, any kind of) sex with, say, Anne Widdecombe, more disgusting than anything else I could possibly think of, despite my heterosexuality.
 
 
Cat Chant
07:32 / 13.05.03
Luckily, this whole thing has been explained for us by the mighty, mighty King Missile so all discussion may now cease


PS: Tiny, tiny little quibble which for some reason I wanted to pick up on:

if ANYONE can give me an explanation why sex between two men is considered gross by the vast majority of US society, while sex between two women is considered hot by the exact same people,

I can't believe that sex between two women is considered hot by "the vast majority of US society". I know tons of straight women who don't consider it hot at all (though, to be fair, due to the company I keep, I know barely anyone who doesn't consider m/m sex hot, so I might not be representative).
 
 
drzener
08:02 / 13.05.03
I like the line in trainspotting where Begby is off with a tranny and Renton in the voiceover gives a speech about everyone being hetero by default. How many people do you reckon are attracted to the same sex but never have the courage to check it out?
 
 
drzener
08:07 / 13.05.03
I like the line in trainspotting where Begby is off with a tranny and Renton in the voiceover gives a speech about everyone being hetero by default. How many people do you reckon are attracted to the same sex but never have the courage to check it out? Or are living in redneck towns where they'll get persecuted for being different. I wonder how many of the suicides in Ireland are caused by these sorts of pressures.
 
 
drzener
08:08 / 13.05.03
Sorry for repeating myself my connection just went funny.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:17 / 13.05.03
We need a field trip. To a gay bar gay bar gay bar.
 
 
Lurid Archive
08:25 / 13.05.03
We could all be having gay sex all the time and never know it... - Haus

You realise where this is going, don't you?


BARBELITH MADE ME GAY!!!!!
 
 
Quantum
10:05 / 13.05.03
Now, don't queer me up you bumboys, hear me out ()
When Gay Sex is used as a phrase, casually, in conversation, it usually refers to buggery (as Ganesh so delicately described) which makes most men go "euw!" unless they're sympathetic to David Baddiel.
That's what most straight men find stomach churning. Offer a drunk straight man a blow job and see if he's really all that fussed...

I used to believe everyone was bisexual, just some were in denial, but then I realised (after meeting my incredibly gay friend Clayton) that it just isn't true- some people are totally straight, some totally gay, most are kinda mostly straight but up for some experimental fun now and again.

My friend Diego reckoned in all seriousness he could convert almost any man in a night. And he turned down Gaultier, and Graham Norton pursued him unsuccessfully, so maybe he's right...
 
 
Bill Posters
10:09 / 13.05.03
Has anyone ever thought about how bi-sexual straight pornography is anyway?

Yes. It truly amazes me that the most homophobic str8boyz will happily spend their time watching porn which often consists of considerably more men's bums going up and down than one might expect from a 'het' film!

It also confuses me that if a common het response to 'gay sex' is, "yuk, anal sex", why does so much het porn depict het anal sex?
 
  

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