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RPG hypersigel narrative project

 
  

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cusm
14:52 / 09.05.03
This being the planning and discussion thread of the narrative hypersigel begun in the format of a Mage RPG, which lives here.

This thread lives here as the story is a working of magick, so involves discussion of that nature. However, it will eventually be moved to the Creation when its ready for that. Lets keep it here in the mean time, to keep focus.

Proposed format so far is wiki, allowing players to contribute in a narrative fashon, and to impose resistence in the form of editing and rewriting one another until the outcome is agreed. Quantum is nomitive storyteller, though the format encourages a more troup approach allowing him to act more as referee. The way that works in a troup setting is that Quantum gets the final call in cases of dispute between players on how the narrative goes. Our goal is players is then to keep that from being necessary. Elsewhere has graciously donated space and tech to host the wiki, go him.
 
 
cusm
14:55 / 09.05.03
Original thread that started this lot starts here, for reference.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
16:04 / 09.05.03
Do we have an intention aside from telling a kewl story to ourselves? I really like the idea that the characters are a bunch of jerks (said with affection) who met via an obscure discussion board but form a "way in" to magickal reality, Invisibles style. It also means that others not with us a the moment can literally write themselves in. So, auto-induction can be part of the intention.

What should the story be about? Or is Quantum to take care of that?
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Tech shit:
I'm getting this when I try to set my preferences: Invalid UserID 111, preferences not saved. (Preferences require cookies, but no cookie was sent.) I've been having 'puter problems.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:24 / 09.05.03
I'm very interested in participating in this & I've read all the related threads & info. So this is literally just make-it-up as you go along and see where it goes? The goal evolves as the process/story evolves? Or can you go into it with certain ideas that you want to magickally accomplish?

I want to join in but I don't want to just shanghai it with all my own goals for the hypersigil, ya know? Although I feel I could certainly 'play nice' and operate within the context of the story and with the other players...
 
 
cusm
16:33 / 09.05.03
Well, lets have some ideas for what the main focus of the hypersigel should do. I think an ideal approach would be to lead the characters into a confrontation with the Barbelith (tieing this into the egregor workings), and then try to give room for characters to explore how this changes them from there. Otherwise cool shit happening plotwise is always a bonus.

Other options are the defeat of an Enemy of some kind, the release of a Primal Power into creation that can Change The World, or just personal changes the characters go through. Maybe all of the above. Anyone have some specific goals they'd like to work in? Have it out here, so it'll be easier to work into the story without hijacking things.
 
 
*
17:34 / 09.05.03
I'd like to be involved in this, if no one minds another worker/player. I like the idea of an induction sigil in the form of an Awakening--development--contact with barbelith--further development story. I feel like for this to have maximum impact it might be helpful to play characters as similar as possible to how the players view themselves currently. Perhaps some setting is in order? Where in the world is this taking place?

I'm not happy with the idea of having a "Kill the Enemy" story as part of a hypersigil; I don't need more of that energy in my life. But release of a primal power for change into the world sounds good as well.

How are ST duties working exactly?
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
17:40 / 09.05.03
I'd prefer to work on persoanl transformations and leave the Primal Forces in the background. Those stories always have a messianic/apocalyptic flavor that leaves me a little cold.

But that's just me. I'd go with the flow on this one.
 
 
*
18:04 / 09.05.03
My aims will mostly be self-work, so I'm starting out as an unawakened dabbler. I'm posted.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:21 / 09.05.03
The idea of the characters meeting Barbelith in some dramatic fashion and seeing where it takes them from there is very cool. Definitely seems to be a slant towards releasing power/awakening/transformation on a personal and global scale as opposed to 'we fight a Big Bad,' which I think is right on.

Maybe they meet the egregore and then are jettisoned off into individual storylines for a bit, crossing into each other's stories and then reuniting? Or do we need to keep the characters in a group together for the most part?

Or am I being too analytical before the fact and I should just see where/how it goes?

I'll sign up tonight.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
19:42 / 09.05.03
Also, and this might seem a little nit-picky, but I'd like to make some writerly suggestions, inasmuch as I'm qualified. Part of this thing is fiction, and we should ty to make it an effective one, even though it'll have some unconventional structures because it's written by committee. My first suggestion is that we convert to and stick to past tense, saving the present-tense for dramatic moments, if that. Present-tense narratives, especially long ones, almost always come off wrong. And I'd be pleased to offer my services as a copy editor for grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc, if y'all trust me not to inject my own preferences and style into what you've done.
 
 
cusm
20:16 / 09.05.03
Sounds good to me. I imagine this will need a bit of cleanup now and then, just to keep it pretty. Also, for androgynous pronouns (sorry Entitything), can we please stick to more standard ones? "They" works for most situations, though hir is also established enough to be clear at this point as well.
 
 
*
21:41 / 09.05.03
(androgynous pronoun stuff)

There are several reasons why I dislike "they" intensely, mostly because it's confusing-- unless we are going totally pomo I'm not a colonial organism. "Hir" is not androgynous enough, being derived from and similar to the existing feminine, and always sounds like the feminine when I pronounce it in my head. I spent a long time thinking about prounouns and developed one I think is more viable than any of the other existing pronouns. The only way it can become standard is if it comes into use.

If you guys are willing to use it, I'll post a complete declension chart and several examples, and if you want I'll even describe my entire rationale behind every part of it and how it developed. If not, I would prefer "it"-- but only for me, not for people who find this offensive. I will use the zie-hir if I must. Adoption of my gender-neutral pronoun is part of my self-work for the moment, but it's unfair to force it on you guys if it's unacceptable to you for linguistic reasons. Obviously for the narrative's sake we'll have to come up with some standard; we can't be switching all the time.

I've edited the tense of my section, or if present tense remains the standard I'll edit it back, but I'd like to hear what everyone has to say about the pronoun thing. I think with a little time the te/ta/tai pronouns are less awkward to read and say than the zie/hir/hir pronouns, but we have to come up with a consensus. If I'm being a problem, I'll bow out.
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
21:56 / 09.05.03
Like I said before I am IN. I've added myself to the wiki but haven't made my character yet. I would like to see a explicit goal held by the group maybe an us versus them motif and then we develope a more developmental goal as our characters develope. maybe.
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
22:07 / 09.05.03
I'll post a complete declension chart and several examples, and if you want I'll even describe my entire rationale behind every part of it and how it developed.

I'd like to see this as I don't like ze/hir myself

Adoption of my gender-neutral pronoun is part of my self-work for the moment, but it's unfair to force it on you guys if it's unacceptable to you for linguistic reasons. Obviously for the narrative's sake we'll have to come up with some standard; we can't be switching all the time.

I would be willing to use your system. Once I know how it works that is.
 
 
vajramukti
22:45 / 09.05.03
hm. cool idea.

be carefull writing yourself into the invisbles world though, it might work

for instance, if you're writing a scenario where you contact barbelith, doesn't that mean you guys are already in the game? barbelith is the rescue device for players embedded in the invisibles.

in a sense you're not actually writing your way into the game, you're writing your way out. LOL

I can see having a lot of fun if you can use some of those breaching experiment type tricks to prick holes in your normative beliefs. metahyperfictions are good for that.
 
 
*
00:09 / 10.05.03
Nietzsche, I pm'd you the declension chart and examples, to avoid cluttering up the thread. If other people are interested I'll post it publicly. Thanks for your interest/support.

Vajramukti, I'm not sure anyone said we were trying to write ourselves into Invisibles-- if anything, we're writing ourselves into Mage and using it as an arena to--- well, do something, I'm not sure what yet. Trigger growth, in my case. If we end up contacting Barbelith in the game, that won't be writing ourselves into invisibles, it will be writing Barbelith into the game. Especially since Barbelith has already grown beyond the confines of the Invisibles. If it was not always here.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
02:50 / 10.05.03
Are we making characters? With stats and stuff? Maybe we need to talk about the game-side of the rules.
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
03:09 / 10.05.03
Mage Revised character sheet

Unknown Armies Character sheet
 
 
Salamander
03:46 / 10.05.03
I think we should go with the encounter with barbelith, but a plot device/antagonist wouldn't hurt. I would greatly appreciate having my grammer and spelling corrected for me. We should deffinitly make charecters so that we know the limits of their abilities.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
04:03 / 10.05.03
I've gone ahead and converted to past tense, with some minor edits along the way. I've kept a copy of the original if y'all hate it, but I think it looks a lot better.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
04:07 / 10.05.03
Well, you should still try to edit yourself. I'm not going to have the strength to proofread and line-edit something that's completely sloppy for very long. I was more stating my intention to keep an eye on the production values.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
15:38 / 10.05.03
cusm, I know this is about the billionth time you've been asked this, but just for the sake of convenient shortcuts, can you direct us to the appropriate places to brush up on the Barbelith egregor? Cuz I've never paid that much attention to it.
 
 
cusm
20:04 / 10.05.03
The best thread on the egregor is here, which should get folks up to date on what that's all about. There are also more concise articles in the wiki that are must reads. What Does Barbelith Mean, and Using Barbelith In Changework. There's your homework, quiz friday.

As for characters and stats, the format we're using is more a narrative one than a die rolling one, so stats are less important than in a normal RPG. However, they are also useful. I would suggest we be a bit loose on that, adopting a general system. Use the Storyteller 1-5 rankings for skills, with 3 being professional level and 5 being the maximum of human potential. People shouldn't have scores above 3 unless its a major power point of the character. 4 is like "better than any other PC" while 5 is like "better than any NPC, too". Define the skills as you need, allowing for general ones if appropriate. The point here is more to define the character than to empower them, so use your judgement. Think of it like Over The Edge, if you've played that one.

As for magick, I think for those who are active mages a description of basic approaches and abilities will suffice, leaving the details and mechanincs more a matter of description when the magick is played. To a certain extent, the abilities of your mage are dependent on the abilities of the player to rationalize and describe the working in a believable way in the story. This is, after all, a working for the player. So in a way, its *you* doing the magick when your character does

I'll try to get a sample done in this format for Horser soon as an example to start with.

As for pronouns, I'm just interested in keeping it readable. Te for he/she and ta for him/her is fine. I mainly don't like tai for his/her, I think its a bit clumsy. I read that and want to hear "their" instead every time, and it throws me off. But I'm willing to budge on that for the sake of this being a part of Entitything's working if need be. Just try to not overuse them where the character's name will suffice, allowing the interspersed use of the pronouns to be understood gradually by context. That way the reader is trained on their use as they are introduced. The more natural they appear in the text, the better they'll stick in the reader's head as valid speech. And do post a sample declention chart for the record, so everyone can keep it straight.
 
 
cusm
20:10 / 10.05.03
Actually, post the declention on the wiki. That's where it'll need to be read anyway.
 
 
*
02:02 / 11.05.03
allowing the interspersed use of the pronouns to be understood gradually by context

Good idea, cusm. Why didn't I think of that? I'll modify my post to flow a little better, and post a declension somewhere on the wiki. Would toi flow better to you than tai? Because that was the beta version, until I found it took longer to say.

Thanks for your help in this, all.
 
 
Salamander
04:54 / 11.05.03
I know Qal, I apreciate anything you can do, but I don't expect you to do it all! The gradual increase of use of those new pronouns would probably be easier for anyone but us that might eventually read this, and yes, the stats should remain loose for the narative.
 
 
Quantum
08:30 / 12.05.03
I'll help with the proofing, no worries.
On pronouns- I am STRONGLY of the opinion that he/she/they should be used as standard, but also fully support linguistic change. I will be using he/she, but how about entitything uses those new pronouns, thus emphasising the style differences between the players?
I love the idea that entitything's character has a linguistic agenda, and that it bleeds into the text as well as hir () dialogue. I'd like to highlight authorial differences rather than hide them, so let's not bust a gut trying to be homogonous.

Stats and character sheets- we should have them for personal reference, but feel free to use any system you're comfortable with. The open nature of the game means compatibility isn't a problem.

I'll throw in plot and metaplot, to provide a coherent direction- no apocalypse or evil bad guy bashing, I promise (well, maybe a little bad guy bashing...)
 
 
Quantum
09:54 / 12.05.03
We need a tech support node for those of us not Adept at being Virtual.
Also despite initial appearances it won't be a mcguffin plotline...I promise!
 
 
Quantum
10:04 / 12.05.03
barbelith is the rescue device for players embedded in the invisibles. (Vajramukti)
consider this metaforeshadowing by alien entities and watch out in the game for a legendary oracle named Vajramukti issuing cryptic prophecies that only make sense after the fact (unless Vajramukti objects?)
 
 
C.Elseware
10:16 / 12.05.03
If everyone's able to add story elements then you can make any opponents, bad guys, NPC's appropriate to what you want to fight/defeat

Also, I am Chris, Master of PERL, Hacker of Code. If you want me to try and add special features to the wiki, I'll give it a go. The easiest thing is adding new "magic" stuff to the renderer, so you can have it do new stuff (like converting text smiley to image etc.)
 
 
cusm
12:34 / 12.05.03
how about entitything uses those new pronouns, thus emphasising the style differences between the players?

You know, that's an entirely fine idea there. Hrm. Though at the same time, we don't want to isolate people too much. If you can clearly differentiate a player from the others, that means they are not integrated into the narrative as deeply, and hence not as much a part of the magick.

We do want the language to be consistent, however we do it. That means, consistent use of tense and application of any custom language. If Entitything is the only one to use hir pronouns, then the working of attempting to integreate these into common usage will fail completely. That bit can only work if we all use them in the story, so if that's to be a part of the working (the real issue to agree upon here) we all need to adopt it where appropriate. Otherwise, I'd personally much prefer the pural on the grounds that someone of both genders is a plural creature, as one with no gender is an it. Further linguistic tinkerings may be best worked out in the wiki, lest this thread become dominated by it. This bit is a side project, lets not let it hold up the greater working in the mean time.

Language aside, I think style should be the differentiating feature of each writer. There is a particular voice in style, and I think that is where this idea of individual hands should appear more. There must be something that is of common ground, and basic language structure is it. But beyond that, there is much room for variation. If each writer can demonstrate their own genre to some degree, the results could be quite interesting. We just want to balance that with keeping good flow, is all I'm about here.
 
 
FatherDog
14:20 / 12.05.03
Room for one more? I'm interested in this.

I'm fairly comp-savvy but have little experience with wikis, so I may require some help in that direction.
 
 
Quantum
14:20 / 12.05.03
oui oui, not to be seperatist about it I just like the idea of each player's contribution being flavoured, and I like the idea of the text reflecting the character. For example, entitything's pronouns could be used 1) in Carrick's dialogue (nice play on text as speech) or 2) in describing Carrick's magickal effects, as tais Will overwrites consensual reality tais linguistic preferences become standard, then recede again once consensual reality flows back.

Basically I want to have the gender neutral pronouns, but for us all to use them consistently is too artificial and will hinder readability.

I especially want us to experiment with textual form though, and not be too constrained by a traditional novel-like style- it doesn't reflect the organic, dynamic nature of the way this thing is being made. I will be using a neutral style for ordinary descriptions, but once magick starts flying around I'll be using an extremely stylised form of description, to reflect how weird magick seems in comparison.

With any luck I'll be online at home soon (all I need is a bootable disc...) and then I'll be able to devote some proper time to it.
 
 
cusm
14:25 / 12.05.03
I see what you're getting at, Quantum. Good thinking. This sort of thing will definitely be more notable once the magick starts
 
 
Salamander
17:30 / 12.05.03
I don know father dog, I'd prefer to keep the magick number of players we have right now, seems to fit the type of effort we're doing, but if the others agree I won't be a dick about it, comments anyone else?...
 
  

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