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Chuck Austen Speaks!

 
  

Page: 12(3)

 
 
Mr Tricks
16:57 / 28.04.03
That's what drove me nuts about the "Jack in Space" storyline in Starman - it took Jack away from all of the things he interacted with best (Opal City, the supporting cast, his junk-dealing business, etc.).

Well I'll have to disagree with that.

After re-reading the series Jacks quest in space was the defining point in his career as a superhero.
The fact that he WAS pulled from his familuar setting was what not only prepared him for the adversity he met upon his return it also allowed his charactor to enter into the cosmic mythos of the DC universe. It Justified the placement of a "STARMAN" amongst BATMAN, SUPERMAN, AQUAMAN, WONDERWOMAN etc... in the JLA particularly in the 1,000,000 arch.

THe charactor's premis was IMO 2 things:
a Family drama with thye Mantle of "STARMAN" spanning both time and space. The examination of a starman dynansty.

Then the story of a normal man drawing "power" from the stars. How could he as a hero NOT at some point voyage to the source of his power.

The series pulled from every direction.. . pirate tales, Sci-fi, Westerns, Romance, Horror, and of course Superheroes. It succeeded greatly and yet one of it's greatest successes was it's Beginging/Middle/end.

As for X-men in space:
It always read to me as a continuation of the human evolution theme. If Humans where destine to leave earth for the cosmos wouldn't mutantkind do so first? OR would Humanity have to evolve into Muntantity to find a place in the cosmos?

Still how effective where those themes touched upon amidst the fighting of some intergalactic coup?
The Brood story almost worked, in that a chance encounter resulted in some alien race seeking to harvest mutants on earth.
As far as IMPERIAL's themes... there was also some comentary on the ultimatle failure of the EMPIRE meme (as brought on by Cassandra) and the need for something "new" to replace it. The Shai'r are pissed 'cause they don't want anything more than Empire, while mutants do.

Now that whole Limbo/inferno/Demons/Goblin Queen thing... that was pretty off topic perfect for this thred

Getting back on topic:
Do you think Chuck Austin was refering to "US" when he mentions his disapointment with "internet-trolls"
 
 
at the scarwash
17:54 / 28.04.03
Now, you know, the idea of John Constantine in space kinda works for me. I'm not sure how yet, but if it's ever done, I'll be first in line.
 
 
Jack Fear
18:23 / 28.04.03
DOOM PATROL #53, "And Men Shall Call Him... Hero!" featured a reimagining of John Constantine as a space-faring costumed superhero (along with a Space Ghost-styled Phantom Stranger, Doctor Thirteen "the mutiple man," and "the ever-lovin' Mr. E, the malleable medium!"). A classic Grant Morrison story, a Marvel piss-take of the highest order.

Mark Millar (who, in honor of another famous red-haired short-arse hanger-on, I usually think of as "Grant Morrison's Pal") re-used the superhero-Hellblazer bit in a BOOKS OF MAGIC annual...
 
 
The Photographer in Blowup
18:37 / 28.04.03
Wasn't that a guy called Willoughby Kipling?

Damn, i always wanted to read Morrison's Doom Patrol.

tpb's, where art thou?


But seriously, a Constantine version that's just meant to take the piss out of the character, might work well in space, but on what grounds would the original venture all the way up there?

Unless you have in mind some sort of Lovecraftian cosmic horror; now that would be sweet.
 
 
Mr Tricks
19:22 / 28.04.03
BOOKS OF MAGIC annual...

With a superhellblazer in it???

when did this happen? What year? Was it BOOKS of MAGIC or hat other series "HUNTER:age of Magic" or some such?
 
 
CameronStewart
20:10 / 28.04.03
As Jack says, Hellblazer the superhero, aka John Constantine, appeared in DP 53, the entirety of the story being a Stan-n-Jack-Fantastic-Four style dream experienced by Danny The Street.

Willoughby Kipling was a different character in DP, but also a Hellblazer pisstake.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
20:32 / 28.04.03
Another take on Constantine was when Ellis had him turn into Spider Jerusalem in a Planetary issue. I think he throws away the trenchcoat and has the tattoos, and it was kinda neat to see. I always thought this was Ellis' comment on always wanting to do Constantine, but after editorial differences short into his run he decided that his own creation was much more important to his advancing as a writer. I think it came out shortly after quitting Hellblazer.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
20:36 / 28.04.03
T'was BOM Annual #3, issued in the midst of the Peter Gross scripted/drawn run. Issued...2000-ish, maybe? The Magic Teens (or whatever they were called) story was the only one in that issue (composed of several alternate reality Timothy Hunter shorts) that was scripted by Millar.

And the train keeps on a-rollin', the track a mile behind...
 
 
Jack Denfeld
20:52 / 28.04.03
But I don't think Austen was talking about us when he was talking about internet trolls. I think Barbelith has 2000 members, with only a fraction of that number posting, and smaller for posting in comics, and smaller still for posting about Chuck. Speaking of whom....

..I brought up an Austen topic back when he 1st started Uncanny to say that I was enjoying the book. It was a breath of fresh air after the Casey stuff, not to insult Casey's talent, it just didn't seem to work on Uncanny. But Chuck had me with his 1st few issues. Started with that fish boy who originally bought a gun to kill the bullies at his school, decided he couldn't and would just use it on himself. And the Xavier rescues him and brings him to the school, and we get to see a little kid's perspective. Unlike Leech and Artie who grew up with freaks, Fish Boy was raised with humans and his dialogue just had me laughing. When those weird werewolve's showed up I started losing interest, but I'll still check it out every one in a while.
 
 
perceval
23:32 / 28.04.03

"Yeah, but they were there. It sounds silly to argue this, but let's pretend this is real - why would the X-Men, who are supposed to be good upstanding people say "ah, that's not our jurisdiction. We only care about mutant stuff. Tough luck." One of the points that Claremont is very fond of is that even though the X-Men are mutants, that doesn't make them different from humans or other non-mutant superheroes. They are good people, and will do anything to help anyone if they can."

I suppose a comparison should be made with another Claremont influenced writer: Gaiman. Gaiman originally intended Sandman to run 30 issues, and it ended up running 75. This was because he liked something he'd started in one arc, and expanded it, which ended up making the series a lot longer (and richer) that it's original conception.

The first Brood arc happened like that. Claremont had introduced the Starjammers and the Shi'ar in one arc (and the idea when they were introduced was to spin them off into their own series), and liked them enough to bring them back periodically, especially since he'd established close ties between these characters and the X-Men. Plus, he had a left over plot thread with Deathbird from Ms. Marvel that he'd never explained, so he did it, here.

"But they shouldn't even be in space; they shouldn't be dealing with a creature like Phoenix: Claremont should have never created the Phoenix mythos in the X-Men; it didn't fit in the premise. Claremont wanted to tell it, should have waited for a chance at the Fantastic Four.

"I'm not saying that the X-Men shouldn't have stopped Phoenix: but that threat shouldn't have existed in a comic book about mutant/human relationship and conflict. It just doesn't fit in the storyline."

Another case of something being expanded. The original idea of Phoenix was just to upgrade and update Jean, as the 60s Marvel Girl in mini skirt and go-go boots was rather dated by the mid 70s. What was a simple upgrade at first took off, and grew and grew, to the point of being the definitive X-Men storyline, and pretty well opening the door for the very interesting comics we saw throughout the 80s. You have to remember that this was something that really hadn't been done, before.

"I think you'll be hard pressed to find a comic historian who doesn't credit the early Claremont days as revolutionizing comic storytelling, actually."

Including, significantly, Morrison. As he put it, early Alan Moore WAS Claremont. I'd add that Moore even had some of the qualities we complain about with Claremont, now. Swamp Thing had a LOT of narrative and exposition, to the point of making Claremont look downright sparse

"Iron Man? Fucking Iron Man?"

The Wasp kicked the X-Men's collective asses, once.

"So no, I don't think all superheroes-in-space stories are bad - just when it's irrelevant to the characters. The Fantastic Four ARE at their best when doing grand cosmic space stuff. The inverse would apply to them - having the FF become urban street vigilantes would be a very bad idea, at odds with the conceptual heart of the series."

Sometimes that can work really well BECAUSE it's not where you usually find them. The last issue of Miller's second Daredevil run featured the Avengers, with Hell's Kitchen burning, and it worked. You wouldn't think Thor showing up in the middle of a Miller Daredevil story would fit, but Frank did it, perfectly.

E
 
 
The Falcon
00:59 / 29.04.03
The Wasp kicked the X-Men's collective asses, once.

The scoreline also still stands at Wasp 1 Galactus 0, in a celestial shocker. Clearly the Wasp is hardcore.
 
 
A
01:16 / 30.04.03
I love that space-Constantine retro Doom Patrol issue. Am I the only one who thinks that Alan Moore's 1963 series was almost exactly the same thing, just a couple of years later?
 
 
The Falcon
02:12 / 30.04.03
Mark Millar also thought so in 1993. I have an interview, pre-2000AD Summer Offensive where he says as much. It's really good; just him and Morrison being super-wide.
 
 
The Natural Way
08:30 / 30.04.03
Willoughby Kipling?

JC reimagined as this guy

 
 
The Natural Way
08:31 / 30.04.03
Whoops!

Sorry, page!

But he has such a glorious head!
 
 
Mr Tricks
16:19 / 30.04.03
GOOD LORD!!!

now that was a creepy pic...

what next? some guys pulling a truck with their dicks?
 
 
The Natural Way
12:50 / 01.05.03
You'll find that Withnail's far from creepy. He's only had "a couple of ales..."
 
 
houdini
00:27 / 06.05.03

I don't know about space, but I remember the issues where Ann Nocenti and JRJr took Daredevil to Hell. That was one of the standout runs on that title, IMO, particularly because at the end of it DD scores a moral victory over the Devil (hrm, pardon me, "Mephisto" - move along ye Comics Code Monitors) rather than, y'know, punching him out or anything.

Taking characters out of their natural context can be really illuminating. I think Batman was very well used during Morrisson's JLA run, definitely a good treatment of the character.

In fact, I'd go further and say that the real question here is not the quality of the ideas per se, but rather whether the quality of the writing can sustain those ideas. I really don't see GM doing much with neWXMen that CSC didn't do before - Shi'ar, Phoenix, Scott & Jean, Prof X goes Evil, etc. But the high standards of his writing and the general aesthetic twist he's bringing to the stories works very well for me.

But if we gave Morrisson the stories Austen's writing now - nurse Annie, Cyttorak and so on - and Austen Mozza's plots - Fantomex, riots, Emma & Scott, don't tell me that you'd be reading Austen's book and not Morrisson's. I don't believe you for a second.

All of which is to say that space is not necessarily a good place for the X-Men to be, nor is the Savage Land. I once read a great Comic Book Artist interview with Neal Adams where he talks about the run he and Roy Thomas did on (the original) X-Men in the 70's issues - right before cancellation. He points out that virtually every creative team to take over the book since then has revisited that turf in an attempt to establish themselves. Claremont and Byrne did it, Lee and his buddies did it and probably some later writers too. I'm glad Mozza left it out, but to be honest he did go for all that South American Aztec stuff and "wild sentinels" as dinosaur stand-ins in the first arc. I'm not sure things have moved a million miles.

As far as the long-term of human/mutant interaction goes, the trouble is that it's not easy to write this story as "realistic" without also making it very, very dark. Look at the massive failures throughout human history to really achieve integration or overcome prejudice, and those in cases where there weren't actual, y'know, superpowers distinguishing people, just minor issues like skin colour.

What depressed me about The Authority was that Ellis always hinted in early issues that a big fall was coming for the team due to their excessive hubris, but Millar's "balls-out" style didn't leave any room for this kind of subtlety so it ended up like the sillier issues of Preacher rather than actually taking the characters down the requisite peg or two. Maybe one day someone will write the ultimate X-Men story where they really do go out on a limb to make contact with humanity and it all turns into a horrible disaster. But that will move the book into one of its "dark future" states for good and effectively bring it to an end, so I don't guess it'll ever happen.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
23:46 / 11.05.03
"I'm classically trained, I went to college and I studied writing and I studied drawing, draftsmanship skills, literature, storytelling, construction of a plot- at this point I can look at the 'criticism' and take it for what it's worth. If someone's actually commenting on the structure of a story or character and the mistakes that are made, the things I'm legitimately doing wrong, then I'll take it to heart and try to improve in those areas. But the kind of comments and complaints I've been seeing online lately have to do with the fans who are upset about continuity issues and character changes - characters they loved and cherished in a particular way and now feel I've changed in some irrevocable, destructive way, so now the fans have to take it personally, and they 'criticize'. But it's not legitimate criticism, it's just venting and frustration that their favorite characters have been mucked with."- Chuck Austen

So do you think this is valid? Just from a storytelling sturcture, do you think this guys knows what he's doing? And is it that you don't like his characters? On the other hand, isn't part of the stroytelling process entertaining the readers?
 
 
Mr Tricks
16:30 / 12.05.03
Well has anyone else picked-up the 25cent Uncanny X-men that just hit the stands?

I figured what the hell it's only a quarter...

IMO lame...on many levels...

I'll write more on it in a bit, but perhaps some others dropped a quarter on it as well. we could use it for disection...
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:38 / 12.05.03
a Quick synopsis on the recent 25cents issue of Uncanny:

The Church of Humanity returns to crusify a half-dozen mutants on the mansion's fron lawn (HOW?).

They are brought to the med-lab where a blood transfusion with Arch-Angel brings all but one back to life.... (drama?)

Wolverine is around to panick about Jubilee's tempory "death"

as is Jean (who can now recognize "mutant blood" by looking at it) and Cyclops who is all of a sudden Hella-pissed at Nightcrawler for neglecting his "leadership" role and letting Archangle assume much of those responsibilities.

Havok is back in his most rediculous costume ever!!! And of course he and Scott argue about his scolding Nightcrawler about never getting around to file a report on the church of humanity...

Reads to me like a whole bunch of just plain bad charactorization...not one of them seems recognizable, beyond their surface appearance.

The art's lame... poor Ron Garney used to begood...

The plot stumbles along revealing that no-one has known about Kurt's becoming a priest (Havok is both upset that he (& everyone else) weren't invited to Kurt's "ordainment"(?) and unable to accept that Kurt, looking as he does, would even believe he could successfully fullfill his role as a priest) of course they investigate. Showing up at the church where Kurt's been "preaching" it's a deserted, rundown, borded-up place.
BTW... Scott & Jean join the mission for this. Upon entering they find puddles of Mutant blood on the floor of this obviously-not-used-for-prayer-services-in-years church. Jean then blows open the floor to reveal a huge messy mutant testing lab benieth; seemingly being run by non-other than Jason Stryker!!! pulled fresh out of the comic-book adaptation of the film...

I like most of the charactors appearing un Uncanny... I just wish they where being written in a way that made sence. Plot-wise as well as charactor & all around story-wise...

No wonder Nightcrawler is allways so depressed...
 
 
The Falcon
00:24 / 13.05.03
Nightcrawler's interior monologues were excruciating. I like how Scott called the Uncanny team the 'second team', though, when he wasn't blustering in dubious fashion.

Oh, they are. In so many ways.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:20 / 13.05.03
I have to say, no offence to the guy, but the new cover artist they have for Uncanny seems to epitomize everything that's wrong about Austen's approach. This is a comic for those people who really miss the days of anatomy-defying, bulging, veiny biceps and ridicuolous one-legged poses...
 
 
The Falcon
14:46 / 13.05.03
Looks a lot like Simon Bisley to me. The cover was, I thought, the best part of my 20p worth.
 
 
penitentvandal
17:54 / 14.05.03
I think we should make use of the writing thread sometime to create a collective 'John Constantine in Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace!' story. JC on some kind of ludicrous Enterprise-type-ship, hanging out with really nice federation-style cosmonauts, pissing everybody off and smoking up the airlocks.

Let's face it, it can't be worse than the Constantine film...
 
 
LDones
19:51 / 14.05.03
Sounds like a Garth Ennis book waiting to happen. For good or ill.
 
  

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