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Marijuana

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13:17 / 02.04.03

I can't find any of the earlier threads on this, so I'm starting one here. Feel free to donate facts (and debate over what those facts mean)!

First, I found this story in Nature:

Marijuana alters fetal brain.

Infant rats exposed in to cannabis compounds in the womb have memory difficulties and are hyperactive, a study has found. The compounds seem to alter the animals' brain chemistry permanently.

Similar changes may explain why some children whose mothers smoked marijuana while pregnant suffer attention problems later in life.

Well, that'd go a long way toward explaining America's current Ritalin culture....

Of course, this brings up spectres of that old anti-drug hoax about chromosome damage. It also reminds me of fetal alcohol syndrome, which (I think) is probably much worse. But still.

14:06 / 02.04.03

Scientist - Okay rat "A", now that you have ingested the cannabis dose, I'm going to show you 15 objects and I want you to try and memorise them then I'm going to take them away. Afterwards I want you to try and list them to me, okay?

Rat "A" - ...

Scientist - I'll take that as a yes then. Here they are...

(Later)

Scientist - Okay, if you can list the objects please "A"?

Rat "A" - ...

Scientist - Come on now, in your own time.

Rat "A" - ...

Scientist - Surely you remember one?

Rat "A" - ...

Scientist - I can't believe you can't remember any of the objects. And please pay attention to me, stop looking over your shoulder. OI! Look at me when I'm talking to you!

Rat "A" - ...

Scientist - Oh for pity's sake, you'll be fed in a minute! TRY AND REMEMBER THE OBJECTS! AND PAY ATTENTION!

(Later, in the scientist's diary)

"Cannabis obviously impairs the rat's ability to memorise a group of simple everyday objects as well as seriously degrading the rat's attention span. Seems to be more interested in food than taking part in a serious scientific experiment. Wouldn't suprise me if the animal's mother was a "druggy" too..."

14:07 / 02.04.03

Sorry...

15:25 / 02.04.03

Hehe... but seriously folks.

As a regular user I personally consider it highly irresponsibly for a pregnant woman to smoke anything. Most of the secondary compounds in weed, as well as cigarettes, will readily pass through the placenta. Aside from the possible dulling effects on development, there are plenty of other toxins created that can damage the foetus.

09:54 / 05.04.03

Actually, I seem to recall reading about a new approach to birthing, where a woman in labor is encouraged to take hits of marijuana during her contractions to treat the pain. Supposedly it works really well with no side effects to the mother or the baby.

Did anybody else read or hear anything about this?

15:44 / 07.04.03

Doesn't sound like the best idea in the world, as smoking weed will raise blood pressure, which can't be ideal.

Also, I don't like the idea of being stoned off my box, going through a lengthy period of pain then suddenly being presented with a bloodied and squawking child. Of course, this is unlikely to happen as I'm a bloke...

Going back to LVX23's post, I'd tend to agree with the idea that smoking weed while pregnant is somewhat irresponsible for the same reasons as smoking cigs but would it make a difference if the cannabis was ingested in different ways, for instance eaten or inhaled as a vapour? Goes back to the validity of grant's post I guess and what we can learn from the effects on rats (probably little).

04:55 / 08.04.03

cannabis is an excellant idea for the mother, but i'm still out on the whole affects on the baby buisness. but even though i too am a man, i can't help but postulate that being high as a kite couldn't help but make what is already preprogramed by genetics to be a pleasant expieriance for the mother even better.

let me drastically change directions drastically.

Cannabis should be legalized all across the board with absolutely no regulation. laws against weed are in there own nature foolish, just like americas prohibition era, modern america has suffered the same crime wave effect. anti drug laws are a foolish vanity of the puritan.

07:53 / 08.04.03

I'm not too comfortable with the idea of smoking during labour, mostly because labour is a huge physical effort and suddenly inhaling a lung full of smoke is probably not going to help. Imagine if you whited-out. How horrible would that be?

As for use as long-term pain relief, why not? Apparently marijuana works really well at making bad arthritis bearable.

08:16 / 08.04.03

THIS JUST IN...
Torturing unborn rats with alien chemical compounds is BAD FOR THEM! Now, can the scientists try it on some damn hippies?

08:45 / 08.04.03

I think the benefits for long term pain relief are well known by now, unless of course you are US supreme court. Seriously though, for a woman in labour there may well be a place for a cannabis derived treatment for pain, and I'm sure there have been women who have done well from having a quick toke during the process - labour is physically intensive and I know that cannabis can make physical exertion very enjoyable, I used to smoke before cycling... however, I just think there may be some physiological risks to the mother that may make it somewhat risky ground.

As for legalisation, all drugs should be legalised, the state does not have the right to legislate on what it's citzens can do with their own bodies.

19:07 / 09.04.03

I was wondering and this is as good a place as any to ask... how long does marijuana stay in your system? I mean, like if you take a drug test? I've heard everthing from 2 weeks to 6 months.

20:23 / 09.04.03

That's because it can stay in your system from anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 months

It varies. Simple home remidies can flush it out of your system in about 2 days, though.

03:56 / 10.04.03

Like what?

11:14 / 10.04.03

Also it stays in your hair for three months, so it depends on the test.

The Return Of Rothkoid

12:08 / 10.04.03

I know that Queen Victoria used marijuana to ease menstrual cramps; I *suspect* it was also administered during childbirth, but can't be certain, offhand.

14:14 / 10.04.03

She also apparently used cocaine. Not sure if that was for medicinal reasons or not...

02:03 / 11.04.03

what if the thc was put into a pill or injection so it didn't have to be smoked, what about an inhaler like the brits are developing. as for the blood pressure issue i couldn't say, not a doctor.

08:04 / 11.04.03

An inhaler for cannabis already exists. I've just read the book "Pot Planet" by Brian Preston and he talks about using one, I think it was in Amsterdam. It's supposed to be very smooth (as you'd expect) and very effective. However he didn't give any information as to it's possible medicinal uses as it was very much a recreational experience for him.

As for pills and similar ingestion modes, they are very much under investigation and possible development right now. Despite the US Supreme Court's decision to ban cannabis for medicinal purposes, California is apparently still very much at the centre of this research. Any one have any further info on this?

17:14 / 11.04.03

Like what?

Vinager, for one. Nasty, but will clean you out. Combine with an unhealthy dose of diauretics and you're in good shape. Golden Seal Tea is a common one sold for this purpose.

As for the pill, I've actually known folks who have gotten their hands on Marinol, as its called. Unsuprisingly, it was dosed way strong.

18:50 / 11.04.03

Note that this will not effect a hair test.

19:14 / 11.04.03

Nope. The only thing that affects a hair test is a razor.

13:48 / 12.04.03

Nah, it's not that extreme. It's just piss tests for future jobs.

03:59 / 15.04.03

Couldn't resist... this is post 420 for me!

Dunno much about the inhaler, but this contraption (or one of its ilk) is well known and factual!... the vapouriser! Allowing unscrupulous tokers to get the best part of ya weed, before bagging it up and flogging it to school kids.

So good they caned it twice.

08:09 / 15.04.03

Yeah, that's the sort of thing I was talking about. Apparently they are quite common in London head shops these days. I am quite tempted, or I would be if I had the money...

00:04 / 16.04.03

Ahhh... I though you meant a medical type inhaler - such as for asthma - which would deliver THC as a pressurised spray or a very fine powder.

Jack Rock-a-Pops

05:42 / 21.04.03

Vaps are great for a bit of variation.

I still would like to hear the definitive answer on the bong because I've heard recent findings "show" that it has the exact opposite effect as was first intended and, more importantly, gets you less cut.

The latter I'm sure is bullshit, but I still would like more info on the former.

10:06 / 21.04.03

Marijuana May Slow Effect of Aging

Although the drug distorts perception and affects short-term memory, it may also help prevent degenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Huntington's and motor neurone diseases

Woo! Score one for the plant!

15:57 / 21.04.03

That article references a study in the upcoming (May 2003) Lancet Neurology journal.

It also references some of the work done with dope and multiple sclerosis - results should come out this summer.

I've heard about that...

I think it was somewhere on New Scientist's "Hot Topics: Marijuana" section.

15:11 / 10.11.03

Score two for the bud: Nature reports on Marijuana and Multiple Sclerosis:
Cannabis may soothe symptoms of multiple sclerosis, concludes the first large-scale clinical trial of the drug's perceived benefit to sufferers. Legally, the drug remains largely out of bounds.

...John Zajicek of the University of Plymouth and his team gave 630 patients either a placebo, cannabis extract, or a synthetic form of marijuana's most active ingredient, delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC).

After 15 weeks, 60% of patients taking the drugs reported that it helped their pain and muscle stiffness, compared with 46% of those on the placebo. It also helped them to walk more easily.

Doctors' ratings of patients mobility, and their own perceptions of tremor or fatigue did not improve.

... There was little difference between the cannabis extract and THC.

...The results, although mixed, hint that cannabis is as good as some existing, imperfect MS medicines....

15:26 / 10.11.03

Vaporizers, by the way, are neat contraptions. I've had the chance to play with one once. It doesn't seem like you are smoking anything, and you can barely even taste it. But its definitely there. I think I prefer the actual hit of smoke though, for purely asthetic reasons.

18:05 / 10.11.03

Well, I've been intruiged by the whole vapourizer thing for a while after reading about how incredible they are. A friend of mine shelled out some money recently and bought one. My opinion? They suck. You have to smoke two or three times more weed than normal, and it makes good weed taste like shit. IMO it's just a waste of herb. I was horribly disappointed after buying into all the advertisements.

Tryphena Absent

12:55 / 11.11.03

Going back, back, back...

As a regular user I personally consider it highly irresponsibly for a pregnant woman to smoke anything.

Well aren't you lucky, I believe you're male(?) and thus will never have to give it up because a little foetus has decided to invade your body.

A friend who was pregnant was advised by her GP not to entirely give up smoking because the shock of withdrawal might harm the baby more than the cigarettes she smoked.

Professor Silly

15:45 / 12.11.03

Punji Steak wrote on 4/7:
Doesn't sound like the best idea in the world, as smoking weed will raise blood pressure, which can't be ideal.

Maybe someone with better sources on the web than me can bare this out, as I have a distinct memory of reading a study that suggested THC lowers blood pressure...which would better explain the usefulness in treating glaucoma.

Cheap. Easy. Cruel.

16:55 / 12.11.03

I don't think that it is a good idea to introduce any foreign substance that could adversely affect the developement of a baby without a very compelling reason. I don't view a desire to get high a very compelling reason. But then, I don't smoke marijuana any more, nor am I likely to ever become pregnant.

21:20 / 12.11.03

I believe you're male(?) and thus will never have to give it up because a little foetus has decided to invade your body. - TS

I think thats a little harsh and a misrepresentation of the choices involved at pregnancy in a country where contraception, the morning after pill and abortion are freely available. Mothers have a reponsibility toward an unborn child that fathers do not have, nearly as directly. That doesn't absolve men of their responsibilities and it would be desirable for a father to give up smoking, for instance. Still, its not as immediate. Unfair, perhaps, but there it is.

Back to marijuana more directly...Does anyone else agree that the dangers of this drug have now become understated? I'm not trying to make a "Reefer Madness" point, but I find it hard to believe that long term use is *entirely* benign. Its hard to disentangle the propoganda from the science, of course, but...OK. Lets put it like this. If someone who had never smoked before was about to try their first joint and asked you to describe the dangers, would you say that there were none?

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