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New X-Men #142

 
  

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FinderWolf
23:32 / 04.06.03
This was really, really, really good. Left me wanting more more MORE!!

What was Fantomex's line about ordering medicine for headaches about, though? Was he ordering that for himself? Or for Scott, knowing that soon Scott would be messed up? Or was it some sort of weird Fantomex code?
 
 
Mr Tricks
00:09 / 05.06.03
I think he was just making fun of the mutant who couldn't hold his drink.

Seems like Scott's never had a taste of old JD
 
 
Mike-O
10:11 / 05.06.03
In my opinion... maybe the best issue Grant has done on the series yet. Wonderful characterization, excellent pacing and plot.... Art was beyond expectations. And jesus, finally that Bromo intro page is gone!!!
 
 
FinderWolf
14:22 / 05.06.03
What does "Bromo" mean? (other than the perceived context of 'lame'?)

Very intereting thing happened -- I seem have to have picked up some of Grant M's thought this past week, bizzarely enough. Because just last week, kind of out of the blue, I was thinking about Wolverine's characterization, and I had this thought-flash that what someone really needed to do was have Wolverine outright say that he wanted a quiet life with a steady woman. He just wanted to live in peace and be left alone, not to be a bad-ass motherfucker. That's a part of Wolverine that no one has really said blatantly, I don't think.

And then I read Grant's lines where Wolvie says "You've got what I always wanted -- great girl, steady life..." And I thought "WHOA!" It was the kind of feeling you get when a sigil you've done works or some magick you've done completely succeeds. Maybe I'm just overdramatizing this, but I honestly feel like I've never seen that particular sentiment expressed by Wolverine in all my years of comic reading.

The full-page shot the the dancer/stripper cracking the whip was interesing - seemed to be a nice thing for pacing and mood.

So did Scott & the stripper do it as she took off her bustier for him in that fade-out from his red visor, even as he seemed totally not into it?
 
 
Mr Tricks
15:29 / 05.06.03
So did Scott & the stripper do it as she took off her bustier for him in that fade-out from his red visor, even as he seemed totally not into it?

I doubt it... I think that stripper was the telepathic on SHAW was speaking about, able to look anyway a man would want to. It looked like she was letting down her hair and the fade into his visor seemed to have to do with Scott's tendancy to be overly literal. He couldn't see beyond hie easons why not to enjoy it so he didn't. The whole think was happening right at his table as he tried to get drunk so I doubt he would even have agreed to a simple lap-dance.

This story was perfect for Chris' style of art, great mood setting & wonderful charactors. Sabertooth trying to dress-up.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:11 / 05.06.03
News today from this weekend's big convention on X-Stuff:

straight from www.newarama.com:

--------------------------------------------------------------

No further origins of Wolverine will be explored in the regular comics, but new questions will be raised. This includes other characters referring to him as James, and what they may know about his past. Chris Claremont, who was present, suggested doing an Ultimate Origin book.

While the books will co-exist, there will not be major crossing over. Typically, it will be in ideas such as the secondary evolution elements. Claremont jokingly explained that the secondary mutations were decided by pulling slips of paper from a large barrel full of secondary mutation suggestions.

Phil Tan is the newest member of the Uncanny X-Men team. Salvador Larocca will join later, in early 2004.

Regular artists will start to happen in the form or arc artists on the books for some consistency.

The New X-Men penciler will be Phil Jimenez. Later, Marc Silvestri will be jumping on board for a stint. Grant Morrison will continue writing through 2004. Phil claims that Grant writes sometimes by talking directly to him in his sleep, though they only meet in person about twice a year. Grant has powers like that.

As reported earlier, Brian Bendis and David Finch will take over Ultimate X-Men starting with #34. There will be more overlap between the Ultimate books since the end of Ultimate War.

Jean Gray will be at the core of “Planet X” (#146-#150), a storyline Jimenez was extremely excited about. Jimenez commented that his favorite characters were Jean Gray and Emma Frost, partially because he prefers human-like mutants, pretty people. Morrison will be introducing a new arch-villain this fall.

On the issue of Cable, DirecTV seemed to be more popular with everyone. He's currently involved in Weapon X, with future plans are to be announced.

There was no comment officially on returning to the bright costumes, but comments were made about how that's a lot of what people read comics for, the bright flashy costumes, and that a change like costuming should never be seen as permanent. They also suggested that the characters just be naked, but the idea didn't fly. Maybe because of Juggernaut? *shudder*

Chris Claremont was asked about Bishop, but Jimenez commented that it was more a question for Grant Morrison. Claremont said he might bring back Arcade, however.

Wolverine's new title will be relaunched at #1 because "relaunching at #57 just wouldn't make sense." The story is going in a new direction, there's a new angle to it, and they've reset the general feel of the book. There will be a strong female lead in the book as well, an ATF agent on the same case as Wolverine that may or may not develop into a love story.

It was apparently "too early to tell" if Wolverine's tendency towards red-heads would be addressed. It didn't seem like something they felt they needed to address, but I think were being polite.

As for Wolverine appearing in all of the X-Books, as well as his own, it's because he's a popular character. His own book will take place in the downtime he has away from the team. Then they joked that Exiles will reveal everything, totally clearing up the continuity.

The Exiles will be coming to the "real" world, and this will affect both their title and others.

The Psylocke issue was brought up again, this time to Claremont himself. He said she was killed as a surprise, and suddenly because life can be like that sometimes. He'd had intention to bring her back, as with any character he created, but that hasn't worked out. He reminded us that we may see her if they add her to the Ultimate X-Men, though.

Speaking of dead, Magneto is dead.

Asked if X2 boosted the sales of the books, they said the TPB sales have been great lately, but no mention of the effect on monthlies. There will be more "Essential" volumes, but nothing planned at the moment.

Rogue and Gambit have been enjoying their time off, but Gambit has put on about fifty pounds, as he spends all day sitting around watching NASCAR as Rogue cooks for him. Seriously, they plan on making them the center of a new arc in September, starting with #31.

All of the teams will continue toying with their line-ups in order to fine-tune their balance and dynamic.

Darick Robertson will be working on Deathlok once he finishes Born.

X-Statix will shortly resurrect an actual historical figure for addition to the team. They will also have a cross-over with X-Force, as well as a super battle with an X-team to be announced.

There was a promo for NYX. "If you can make it here...you can make it anywhere." The slide was black, feature the above tagline, a juicy red apple in the middle, and the letters NYX in subway-style lettering. The first issue is in the can, penciled by Josh Middleton, but the writer is still being kept secret. It will feature a good number of female leads, and be more human, though not Oxygen-level.

Sebastian Shaw will return, but there are no plans for Hellfire Club.

Plans to resolve the Mr. Sinister story are to be announced.

Carter's father: "We'll get to it."

Bishop will assert his leadership again.

Chuck Austen is a fan of Archangel, and will explain the issues with the wings in time.

At the mention of the third Summers brother, Claremont shook his head in mock-frustration. He claimed that only two Summers brothers can exist in one plane of reality at a time, so we would have to lose one to gain another. That, or they could do something in the Ultimate line.

The session wound up with a discussion about the possibilities for stories. Initially, the policy had been to keep the number of mutants small, as well as keep them hidden. That way, the stories could still keep the reality of the Real World in place. Now that's all gone, but it opens us up to new possibilities. What if there was a bipolar mutant, using his powers to the whims of his temperament? What if Magneto, one of the most powerful beings alive (for this example) developed Alzheimer’s? What would the effect be on his powers and his ability to control them?

An interesting, if not fast paced and scattered panel. The jokes were flying, especially from Claremont, probably leading to some misinformation for the web in the next few days.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
The Natural Way
16:20 / 05.06.03
Yes! Arcade! I love him!

And this, too, is excellent:

X-Statix will shortly resurrect an actual historical figure for addition to the team. They will also have a cross-over with X-Force, as well as a super battle with an X-team to be announced.

WTF? Let's play guess the historical figure!

X-Statix SHOULD be gimmick ridden.
 
 
DaveBCooper
16:39 / 05.06.03
Somewhere - I forget where - it was suggested that the X-Statix resurrectee would be Diana, Princess of Wales.
Hmmm...
 
 
Raw Norton
17:03 / 05.06.03
Milligan is resurrecting Princess Di? There goes my Epic series...


Steering the discussion back towards *ahem* NXM #142...

Some of Bacchalo's best art (that I've seen) since the original "Death" miniseries. In this issue at least, the artist is really well matched to the story. Loved his Sabertooth, didn't like the premonition I got that he'll reappear before the end of Assault on Weapon Plus.
My regular "Favorite Lines of the Issue" feature:
"It might have been one of yer inner demons, Slim"
Sabertooth, peering over Logan's shoulder at the urinal: "What you got that I don't?"
 
 
FinderWolf
17:29 / 05.06.03
My favorite line was Logan saying "You always get the best girls, Summers."

Congrats to everyone who predicted we'd be getting a lot more Fantomex!

Someone made a point of saying that Shaw's powers used to be absorbing energy and that he never had telepathy -- but I guess it could be a secondary mutation. Either that or Morrison saying "screw continuity" (it's not a very big deal, this particular bit, anyway) and Marvel saying "OK."

I agree that this is Bachalo's best interior art in a looong time (his covers have always been cool, including the especially creative NAMES OF MAGIC covers he did recently).

There goes my prediction that when Grant M. said Logan would be meeting Sabretooth in a way never done before, they'd be playing chess.....

And again I ask, where is DUSK, the Muslim mutant Grant introduced a looooong time ago? In this day and age, you can't drop the concept of a Muslim heroic mutant, I think....very cool idea that needs follow-up.

And I bet Arcade will show up in X-TREME X-MEN, a book I really don't like. (though it is nice to see Kordey's regular, clean, non-rushed art back in action in some form.)

Please note Morrison introduces "a new arch villain" "this fall." Hmmmm.....Esme writ large, anyone?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
17:31 / 05.06.03
"I think it's my mutant power."

Probably encapsulates everything I dig about Morrison's run. Characterization, humor, resonance of continuity. I fucking loved that line.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:51 / 05.06.03
I also liked Logan saying "There's no one I'd rather have in my corner than Scott Summers." Despite all their years rivalry (not just about Jean but about leadership/warrior style) and Logan giving Scott shit, he really admires and respects ol' Cyke.
 
 
Mr Tricks
20:32 / 05.06.03
Someone made a point of saying that Shaw's powers used to be absorbing energy and that he never had telepathy -- but I guess it could be a secondary mutation. Either that or Morrison saying "screw continuity" (it's not a very big deal, this particular bit, anyway) and Marvel saying "OK."

I took that as SHAW mentioning that every stripper in the club that night was telepathic. So with a wave of his hand he could have any-one of them hit Sabertooth...

Did you notice that he got 2 threats to be skinned in one night. Both SHAW & Wolverine...
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
21:02 / 05.06.03
I'm with Mr Birdie - that line was the best in the comic (I'm such a sucker for the 'mutant interest' parts).

The art's great as well, and I loved the colouring in the club. I'm a bit confused by the Weapon X/Weapon Plus thingy, but no doubt Flux can explain it to me if I ask nicely...
 
 
Mr Tricks
22:34 / 05.06.03
The Weapon Plus program started with Weapon I durring WWII (quite possibly Captian America) and worked it's way to Weapon X (With Weapons II thru IX happening durring the time inbetween) and is now up to Weapon XIII with FantomX.
 
 
Mike-O
03:22 / 06.06.03
The Weapon "X" program was evidently a divergent program of Weapon Plus. Wolverine being referred to as Weapon "X", is in actuality a ref to his being the tenth Weapon, or "Weapon X". Honestly, it's not that fucked up if u just put all of this into perspective.
 
 
Professor Silly
05:38 / 06.06.03
by the way...look closely at the bottle. it doesn't say Jack Daniel's, it says:

Jake Danial's

I thought this resonated nicely with the way Scott lives his life.

Best issue yet, and so little happened--two characters getting shit-faced.

(smiles uncontrollably)
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
07:50 / 06.06.03
That's what I thought - I was confused because Wolverine says: 'this Weapon Plus setup kept copies of all the old Weapon X files after the programs diverged', which makes it sounds as though they were two programmes rather than Wolverine being the product of the one programme...
 
 
Aertho
14:03 / 06.06.03
I assume that the Weapon Program that started with Captain America was an Allied attempt at making a WW2 supersoldier, it recieved North American/Western Europe funding until at least Weapon Ten(X), wherein the programs diverged amongst the North American beneficiaries. "X" -as in the letter X, became code for the Canadian endeavors, while Weapons 11-15 were developed by the Western European powers. How/where American funding fits into all this, I have no idea -it may have ties to either, or both.

I think it makes sense for Sebastian to develop telepathy, though that makes telepaths more common than french fries in a food court. Shaw's superstrength proved his power in a human arena, now that the shift in global power has become conceptual, he exerts his control and power through the mind. He's always depended on those with mind-powers before anyway, and with Tessa and Emma both on the X-Men, he's developed his own psychic talent.

Fantomex and Cyclops were both drinking gay sparking wine...

And Sabretooth was totally looking.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:07 / 06.06.03
I think that Grant originally wanted to rewrite the history so that Weapon X was only a small part of Weapon Plus, but had to be talked out of it because it conflicted badly with a lot of previously written stories and the current Weapon X comic (which has nothing to do with Weapon Plus at all.) It seems reasonable that the Weapon X program became a separate thing, and Weapon Plus kept chugging along. Other than that, I really don't know much about this. We'll have to wait and see what happens over the next few issues.

* I really dislike the "oh, Sebastian Shaw's telepathic now" thing. Since the beginning of New X-Men, the secondary mutation thing has been handled very well by Morrison, but this was just sloppy and too convenient. Well, maybe not even convenient - Shaw's superstrength gifts would have been fine enough in threatening Sabretooth, and Shaw didn't really have to be telepathic to learn about the Scott/Emma thing. It certainly doesn't wreck the character or anything, but it does seem gratuitous and pointless, especially since there are already way too many telepaths running around in this comic.

* I really love Scott in this issue. I think he's outpacing Henry to be my favorite character in the comic. All of his dialogue was excellent, especially when he's denying over and over that he's drunk.

* It's a really nice change of pace to focus on the more traditionally masculine characters in the comic and leave Jean/Emma/Charles on the sidelines for a change. Grant's been keeping the Scott/Logan relationship in the background for too long, we haven't had anything like this (or a real action storyline) since E Is For Extinction.

* Wow, Fantomex finally looks right. He's only been drawn by Kordey and Van Sciver, and the character never quite looked right to me, compared to his dialogue and Grant's intentions for the character. I think Bachalo is the perfect guy to draw this guy, he's got the right kind of flash.

* I wonder if there will be people who will complain about the alcohol in this story. I'm actually kinda surprised that they were allowed to do this. It's been in Grant's plans all along - if you check his proposal as reproduced in the NXM hardcover, there's a bit where he talks about a similar issue, but with a distraught Gambit instead of Cyclops.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:50 / 06.06.03
Jack Daniels = Jake Danial's for copyright purposes, of course.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
18:28 / 06.06.03
I was just checking around X-Fan and it seems like this is one of the best recieved issues of Morrison's run so far, the fans seem to be really loving this issue. That's pretty cool, this being a conversation issue and all.
 
 
Quimper
19:02 / 06.06.03
Yes, however the general NXM X-Fan board has just been temporarily switched to the "Which X-Man has the Biggest Dick" thread. All because Sabretooth was totally looking.
 
 
Mr Tricks
21:03 / 06.06.03
* I really dislike the "oh, Sebastian Shaw's telepathic now" thing.

Just reread it last night & I still think it didn't outright say "SHAW's telepathic now"

He could certainly be taking "credit" for the fact that he is currently in telepathic communication with every telepath dancing for him in that club. Until he starts throwing Psi-bolts™ I will continue to read it as THAT!!!
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
23:59 / 06.06.03
Read it again.

He reads Scott's mind, and apologizes for it. He threatens to personally erase Sabretooth's mind.

When he talks about the dancers, he is talking about the dancers. There are enough telepaths running around in NXM that it is pretty easy to accept that the majority of the people in the room are telepathic.

I suppose there is some room to interpret that he really means that he'll have his people do this to Sabretooth, or that he had someone else read Scott's mind, but that is needlessly complicated and doesn't make sense with his dialogue. Shaw would have just said, for example, "I will have my people gleefully destroy that ugly wheezing engire you call a mind" instead of saying that HE will do it.

It's not hard to accept that Shaw has a secondary mutation since so many other characters do too.

This really isn't too hard to grasp if you just read the dialogue and look at the pictures.
 
 
Spaniel
10:54 / 07.06.03
I've always seen Morrison's approach to telepathy as tapping into the old "in the future they're all telepathic - no need for messy words" thing. It's like the default mutation for the next stage in evolution.

Just a thought.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
11:49 / 07.06.03
I have no prior knowledge of Sebastian Shaw, and to me it didn't seem odd that he should be a telepath in the slightest - I didn't even register that it might be a secondary mutation. It doesn't seem hugely important (though now I think about it, there are a hell of a lot of telepaths around, aren't there? But lots of people with wings as well, c.f. the flying lesson in the Imperial arc)
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
16:34 / 07.06.03
"I will have my people gleefully destroy that ugly wheezing engire you call a mind" instead of saying that HE will do it.

With Shaw's Ego? Those telepathic dancers are property, not people.
If you hit something with a hammer do you say that the hammer did it?

Secondary mutation or not, really dosn't bother me.
 
 
Mike-O
03:07 / 08.06.03
Grant has a way of taking the utter shit of much of the X-Men, and retranslating it as beautifully and intricately crafted drama.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
04:17 / 08.06.03
Are you trying to get a quote on the dust jacket of the next hardcover, man?
 
 
Mike-O
04:46 / 08.06.03
More than u know, Flux.

Sorry, but the man is an inspiration to me... I'm not bullshitting... I just really believe that.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
09:03 / 08.06.03
Oh Good, was this the worst issue yet? I think it's the first time we've had both a script and art disappoint at the same time. Was Bachalo deliberately trying to draw every character as a characature, especially the ridiculously over the top Sabretooth with his millions of bits of leather and beads every whichwhere?

But Grant's script needs us to rely too much on things happening off-screen too much. We never got to see Scott letting down those emotional barriers with Emma, we just got to hear about it all the time, so when Jean burst in on them I assumed that was the first time anything serious was about to happen. Similarly when Scott talks about how free Emma made him feel, we saw absolutely no proof of that at all, what we did see had Scott being as neurotic as ever.

Is all this stuff about Wolverine seeing some woman in his head happening in one of the other titles? If not, or even if it is, it's annoying we've had absolutely no indication of this in 'New X-Men'. Even during 'Riot' or 'Murder at the Mansion', some indication that this was troubling Logan would have been nice. Presumerably Logan and Fantomex were planning to meet at his shack, but then there were the eggs and Sage messing things up, but even so... Surely Grant doesn't need to be told to show, don't tell? And while we're at it, just as with 'MatM', Logan has got Jean and Xavier, the two most powerful telepaths on the planet, but he'd rather trek off somewhere with the unknown quantity that is Fantomex to find out about his past? I wouldn't mind if Grant hadn't shown in #126 (IIRC) and #136 that he believes that Logan is vulnerable to telepathy.

And frankly, I'm getting tired of this whole one-note thing where each issue either Scott or Jean go on about how they don't understand each other any more. It's like some emotional Claremontism, where instead of helpfully explaining what his mutant power is each issue Cyclops talks about how he just can't relate to Jean. Enough! We get it already! Let it drive the story without having to mention it each month! It's as dull as Grant suddenly deciding that the Flash and Green Lantern in JLA were massively inexperienced in their roles, until the last story where GL suddenly started 'feeling like a hero'.

Still, three more issues and then we get jean complaining about Scott but being completely unwilling to do anything about it. Woohoo!
 
 
Optimistic
13:11 / 08.06.03
Did anyone read the small print at the borrm of the first page, all the legal crap where it says "published monthly by Marvel Comics EXCEPT semi-weekly in JUNE, AUGUST and NOVEMBER"?

So:

june - #142, 143
july - #144
august - #145, 146
sept - #147
oct - #148
nov - #149, 150
dec - #151

Well, I'm certainly quite excited...
 
 
Seth
15:19 / 08.06.03
I've always seen Morrison's approach to telepathy as tapping into the old "in the future they're all telepathic - no need for messy words" thing. It's like the default mutation for the next stage in evolution.

Yeah, that's exactly what I thought. It's another of the Classic Morrison Themes played out. Telepaths are on the increase, we'll see a lot more of this.
 
 
diz
04:02 / 09.06.03
I've always seen Morrison's approach to telepathy as tapping into the old "in the future they're all telepathic - no need for messy words" thing. It's like the default mutation for the next stage in evolution.

i'm with Bobossboy on this one. i think telepathy is front and center in Morrison's idea of mutant evolution and i think we should expect to see it a lot lot more than we already have (which is a lot).

i don't really have a problem with it in general. if anything, i wish it would be more pronounced, maybe even seeing a split between telepathic mutants and other mutants, with the former thinking of themselves (perhaps with some justification) as being to telepathy-blind mutants as mutants are to humans. but, anyway, i digress.

that said, i'm not sure that i like Sebastian Shaw having it, at least not like it works in this issue. i think he'd have to be stupid not to see that telepathy in the brave new world of NXM is not a want, but a need, if you want to play in the big leagues like he does. i'm also aware that secondary mutations give GM an excuse to give it to him.

however, i think it's way too convenient, for one thing, that Shaw should happen to draw what is arguably the most useful card from the deck of random secondary mutations. it's just really dull, honestly.

more importantly, i don't think this recent burst of secondary mutations has been around long enough for him to gain the kind of control over it that he so evidently displays here. he's had the power for, what, a few years at most, and he's threatening to wipe people's brains and yada yada yada left and right already?

finally, as a longtime Shaw fan, i think that if he suddenly developed potent telepathic powers, he'd be a lot more likely to keep that fact quiet for maximum advantage. you can get away with a lot as a telepath in any case, but even more if no one knows you're a telepath.

i don't think the "he was talking about the dancers" argument holds water, since he's clearly talking about himself.

there is also the possibility that he's bluffing, i suppose, but i have no idea why...

Oh Good, was this the worst issue yet?

no, not really, aside from my gripes with the Shaw thing.

But Grant's script needs us to rely too much on things happening off-screen too much. We never got to see Scott letting down those emotional barriers with Emma, we just got to hear about it all the time,

we don't generally see the explicit details of characters having sex, either. what's your point?

i think GM presumed that we have two brain cells in our heads and that, knowing how bottled up Scott is, that we would understand what a major emotional release his affair would be for him without having to have GM hold our hand through the whole thing. we know that Scott's got a lot going on in his head. we presume that he would be different in more intimate circumstances where he could let his guard down, but that he doesn't feel comfortable being that vulnerable around Jean anymore, and yet he does around Emma, behind closed doors, anyway. what else do we need to see?

in a very strange way, the whole thing is more poignant for GM's discretion here. it's almost as if we are in the shoes of people who know Scott like the other X-Men know Scott. we don't follow him through the bedroom door - we just see what he's like the morning after. we are able to read between the lines, but it would be almost intrusive or vulgar to see more than we do.

quite frankly, GM's handling of Scott's character arc and his whole affair with Emma is masterful, and shows his growing maturation as a writer. he knows exactly what to show and what not to show. he's let Emma penetrate his bubble, but not the reader, and in so doing, has really gotten to the heart of the character: his reserve, his privacy, his stoicism.

so when Jean burst in on them I assumed that was the first time anything serious was about to happen.

i have no idea why you assumed that. i think it had been pretty clear for quite some time that they had been (astrally) going at it like weasels in heat for quite some time by that point.

it was never explicitly stated as such, but you're the one who's asking for "show, don't tell," which is exactly what we've gotten. we saw a few suggestive snippets and we see how the characters have related to each other without having GM come out and say "SCOTT AND EMMA ARE FUCKING" over a bullhorn. that's what "show, don't tell" means.

it's like when two people you know start spending more time together all of a sudden and you catch a few signs here and there, and then you do the math without anyone having to tell you outright.

Is all this stuff about Wolverine seeing some woman in his head happening in one of the other titles?

i don't have the issue in front of me, but didn't QQ find it in his head during the Riot arc?

And frankly, I'm getting tired of this whole one-note thing where each issue either Scott or Jean go on about how they don't understand each other any more. It's like some emotional Claremontism, where instead of helpfully explaining what his mutant power is each issue Cyclops talks about how he just can't relate to Jean. Enough! We get it already! Let it drive the story without having to mention it each month!

most couples i've ever known in similar situations have been exactly like that, to the point where it feels like you're listening to a broken record. hell, i was like that when my marriage was collapsing. they're stuck in a rut.

It's as dull as Grant suddenly deciding that the Flash and Green Lantern in JLA were massively inexperienced in their roles, until the last story where GL suddenly started 'feeling like a hero'.

it's been a while since i read these, but i don't think GM "decided" that GL and Flash were massively inexperienced in their roles. IIRC, he correctly pointed out that GL was massively inexperienced (relatively speaking to the rest of the JLA), and that Flash was much more experienced.

i thought that it was only GL who was "green" (pun, sadly, intended), and that that was Flash's whole issue about having to work with him, since he (Wally) was so much more experienced than this jackass who had just happened to come upon a ring? i also thought that Superman gave Wally credit at one point or another for having been in a costume much longer than a lot of people in the JLA, but that could've been my imagination.
 
  

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