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What is acceptable in a McDonalds ad?

 
  

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grant
11:54 / 22.02.02
I'm sure this debate sparked up previously, but I can't find it anywhere in the music forum.

Lo, my friend Merle is shocked and dismayed at the new McDonalds ad.

[thread title altered for clarity by Flux = Moderator]

[ 23-02-2002: Message edited by: Flux b/w Rad ]

[ 23-02-2002: Message edited by: Flux b/w Rad ]
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
12:12 / 22.02.02
Well, The Shins aren't all that great. No big tragedy.

I can understand why they'd want to take a huge sum of money for doing no work at all, and probably have their album sales figures go up too. It's a good deal, and that ad will only be out for a couple weeks.

At least they didn't pick "Caring Is Scary". That song is pretty good.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
12:17 / 22.02.02
yes, this one did rather rage a while back. but not this specific incident: i've never heard of the shins, or know what they 'stand for', if anything. on the one hand, first reaction is always going to be 'mcdonalds? you bastards!', on the other, what would i do if i was offered maybe a 5 or even 6 figure sum for a piece of my writing by a company i totally despised? say no, and carry on being poor? i wonder about that...... but i'd like to know more about the shins.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
12:29 / 22.02.02
Why not takes McDonald's money? Is the music in an ad going to make someone buy a fucking burger who wouldn't have bought a burger before? If McDonald's wants to invest 10,000-150,000 dollars (the figures quoted in the article) in the indie rock underground, said underground would be foolish not to take it. If somehow your hands would be sullied by taking that money, then take it and give it to the charity of your choice.

The concept of selling out is pretty fucking ridiculous. The only people who care about shit like this are those who are into "indie" or obscure music for "cool points" anyway.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
12:36 / 22.02.02
I'm pretty baffled why they don't just use Wesley Willis' "Rock N Roll McDonalds".

I'm with Todd. I hate adverts, but I've come to accept them as an inevitable part of modern life. This ad is only running for a very brief period of time, and isn't the focus of their ad campaign. A lot of people are fine with poor musicians and indie rock types working really crap, demeaning day jobs. Why is that so different from a really crap demeaning job that pays them enough money to focus entirely on music for a while, or maybe put their kids through college?
 
 
grant
12:44 / 22.02.02
I think part of the point is that their only hit song namechecks the Minutemen, who were notoriously anti-commercial.

The discussion I linked to up there goes into the stuff you're saying up there, too.

It also links to this article on Apples in Stereo, their guidelines for selling out, and the whole phenomenon of indie rock in commercials.

quote:Fourteen years after Nike outraged Beatles fans, and the surviving Beatles, by using "Revolution" in a sneaker ad -- Michael Jackson controlled the publishing rights to the song -- the revolution is over, and the advertisers have largely won. Bruce Springsteen famously refused a reported $12 million to license his song "Born in the U.S.A." to Chrysler in 1986 and remains one of the handful of high-profile holdouts. (Others include Neil Young and Tom Petty.) But such opposition appears to be in retreat. "Artists no longer feel stigmatized about being used by corporations," says Cyndi Goretski, artists-and-repertoire manager in the licensing division of Warner Music. Counterculture anthems by the Who or Jimi Hendrix now sell cars. When Sting couldn't get airplay for his recent song "Desert Rose" or for the video, which featured him riding in a Jaguar, he licensed the video to the company to turn it into an ad. The exposure helped "Brand New Day" become his top-selling solo album.

But increasingly, agencies are looking beyond middle-of-the-road pop like Sting's and building brand identity for their clients with hip curios like the Apples. If you want to hear interesting, ambitious, challenging pop music these days, the place to turn is not mainstream radio but television -- and not MTV but commercials for establishment products like banks, phone companies and painkillers.


quote understand how entangled the connections between underground music and advertising have become, consider the Volkswagen commercial that used the ethereal ballad "Pink Moon," by Nick Drake, an obscure English folk rocker who died in 1974 after an overdose of antidepressants and who in the 1990's developed a cult following among indie-music fans. The Volkswagen campaign, created by a Boston agency called Arnold Worldwide, has been among the most adventurous in its use of obscure or forgotten music, pulling songs from performers as disparate as the jazz iconoclast Charles Mingus and the German new wave band Trio. To shoot the Drake spot, the agency hired Jonathan Dayton and Valerie Faris, who are known for their trippy, award-winning music videos for the alternative bands Korn, Smashing Pumpkins and Red Hot Chili Peppers. Such crossovers between making videos and making ads are common, further blurring the distinction between the two.

The original plan was to use the song "Under the Milky Way," by the Australian post-punk band the Church. But Lance Jensen and Shane Hutton, the writers, couldn't get "Pink Moon" out of their heads. During the edit, they tried it with the film. It clicked. The agency put the ad on the VW.com Web site, with a link for people to buy Nick Drake's CD online. Sales of the album jumped from 6,000 copies a year to 74,000. "He sold out without knowing it," Faris says.
 
 
Saveloy
13:39 / 22.02.02
I object to songs I love being used in adverts and even films, not because of any anti sell-out principle - I agree with Todd and Flux that small bands making big money is good, and if MegaCorp want to give it to them, then fine - but because it almost always kills the song for me. Once a song has been used in that way I cannot hear the song without seeing the advert. It is forever tied to the product, and all the personal images and feelings that song previously created in you are replaced by a set of unwanted associations with tyres or burgers or... whatever.

Wouldn't it be better if bands wrote original tunes for ads? Band gets cash, company gets kudos, and fans get super limited only-on-telly material to bootleg.

[ 22-02-2002: Message edited by: Saveloy ]
 
 
rizla mission
13:46 / 22.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Saveloy:

Wouldn't it be better if bands wrote original tunes for ads? Band gets cash, company gets kudos, and fans get super limited only-on-telly material to bootleg.


Well the Undertones had a go, but I don't the Mars Bar people were very keen..
 
 
suds
14:18 / 22.02.02
fucking mcdonalad ads.
have you seen the latest one starring paul gasgoine? i don't want to see that fucking wife beating cunt on my teevee at all, especially not when he is being made out to be a loveable goon.
that *really* pisses me off.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:28 / 22.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Saveloy:
Wouldn't it be better if bands wrote original tunes for ads? Band gets cash, company gets kudos, and fans get super limited only-on-telly material to bootleg.


That's always been Yo La Tengo's policy. They came *this* close to having a Coca-Cola jingle, but it didn't work out.
 
 
Cop Killer
17:53 / 22.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Flux = Triangle Body Mode:
I'm pretty baffled why they don't just use Wesley Willis' "Rock N Roll McDonalds".


Well, for one, it's a location specific McDonald's in Chicago, and, also, there would probably be loads of problems with using a fat, black scizophrenic guy that can't sing to sell stuff, people would shout exploitation right away.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
18:06 / 22.02.02
Well, they could get someone else to sing it, and Wesley could pocket the cash for medication.

It doesn't have to be about a specific McDonalds, it can just be about how McDonalds really rocks, and people go there to hang out.
 
 
Margin Walker
19:14 / 22.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Saveloy:

Wouldn't it be better if bands wrote original tunes for ads? Band gets cash, company gets kudos, and fans get super limited only-on-telly material to bootleg.


I thought the Gap already did that Luscious Jackson, et al.).

If somehow your hands would be sullied by taking that money, then take it and give it to the charity of your choice.

Yeah, how about the Ronald McDonald house?
 
 
bio k9
05:55 / 23.02.02
Hmmm...

ROCK OVER LONDON!

ROCK ON CHICAGO!

WHIP THAT MOTHERFUCKING DONKEYS ASS!


<headbuts Ronald>

I like it.
 
 
Fist Fun
12:18 / 23.02.02
quote:have you seen the latest one starring paul gasgoine? i don't want to see that fucking wife beating cunt on my teevee at all, especially not when he is being made out to be a loveable goon.


Ok, this is threadrot but I can't let that comment go unchallenged. It is so unfair to make that sort of simplistic remark. Maybe, the issue is bit more complex than him being a "wife beating cunt", involving alcoholism, etc. I don't mean to get at you but it makes me angry when people are written off in such an unfair way. Of course, PG is in a very privileged position compared to most other alcoholics, but you know....
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:28 / 23.02.02
Yeah, suds, what are you, a woman or something?
 
 
Fist Fun
13:05 / 23.02.02
Talking of cheap, simplistic remarks...oh what is the point...
 
 
suds
14:04 / 23.02.02
buk, i am totally stnding by my statement. with knobs on. alcoholic or not, he beat up his wife and is getting a lotta cash money from mcdonalds to do these ads. it is not cool at all. the end.
 
 
Fist Fun
14:20 / 23.02.02
I'm sorry Suds I don't want to have a go at you personally. If you are saying that someone should just...what disappear, die, never be seen again...when they have committed a terrible act under the influence of alcoholism...well I can't agree with that and I suggest you read up on the condition. Treat the condition, react with appropriate measures, yeah...never forgive? Sorry I'm getting angry and I don't mean you to take this personally Suds, just you know maybe try and read up a little, talk to people. This isn't the place for this though, so I shall stop now, back to the music...

fuck, Suds, don't take this as bitching or whatever...just this is ... serious, I can't just say no biggie...people fuck up, people come back, people face up to what they have done, respect, support, you know...read Addicted by Tony Adams, I'll post you it if you want...

[ 23-02-2002: Message edited by: Buk ]
 
 
suds
14:24 / 23.02.02
please don't tell me to read up about men who hit women. i already know a too much about that subject. ok? the end. really.

[ 23-02-2002: Message edited by: suds ]
 
 
Not Here Still
14:26 / 23.02.02
Re: Gazza.

So it's OK to beat your wife if you are an alcoholic? Right...

There may well be more to the situation than can be expressed in a simple, single post. But he beat his wife. That makes him a cunt in my book.

The fact he might have been an alcoholic doesn't excuse this.

He IS still a wife-beating cunt.

[back to the topic]

I think the one thing which really gets me when music is used in adverts is the way some companies - naming no names, but Coke, rip off band's songs when they are refused the rights to use them. That makes me angry...
 
 
Ganesh
14:34 / 23.02.02
Okay, there's alcoholism and there's alcoholism. If he was truly alcohol-dependent (ie. couldn't get through the morning without a drink, etc.) it's unlikely that he'd have been able to hold down a football career for any length of time. If, on the other hand, he was not physically dependent on the stuff but merely a common-or-garden binge-drinker, the whole question of "alcoholism" and "illness" is a little more moot.

Either way, he's responsible for what he does when he's pissed. Legally, I guess he could claim diminished responsibility but essentially he made the decision to booze, he assaulted his wife, he pays the consequences.

And sorry, all I'm doing here, really, is contributing to thread-rot. I've got no real opinion on music in McDonalds ads.
 
 
Fist Fun
14:37 / 23.02.02
quote:So it's OK to beat your wife if you are an alcoholic? Right...

Do you think that anyone would even suggest that? Of course it is completely unacceptable.
To condemn someone forever, because of their actions while under the influence of alcoholism. Is that acceptable?

But anyway. End. This is one of these silly online things where people try to win arguments. Silly online games where we twist meanings to win points. I'm not trying to win an argument I'm trying to show that these things are a little more complex, suggest perhaps a bit of reading on the subject...which appears to be out of the question...so there really isn't much point in going on...

and edited to comment on Ganesh's post

quote:Either way, he's responsible for what he does when he's pissed. Legally, I guess he could claim diminished responsibility but essentially he made the decision to booze, he assaulted his wife, he pays the consequences.

I agree completely, but paying the consequences does not involve never being forgiven and does involve the wider circumstances being considered as well.

[ 23-02-2002: Message edited by: Buk ]
 
 
Ganesh
14:39 / 23.02.02
(If people seriously want to discuss this, it might be worth starting a separate thread up in the Head Shop...)
 
 
suds
14:44 / 23.02.02
buk, the reason why i don't want to be told to "read up" on the subject is incredibly personal. i'll just say that i honestly do feel that i know enough about the subject.
please don't assume that my comments are just to be mean, or that i am refusing to see yr point of view. i do understand what you are trying to say; but this is not an easy topic for me to talk about, especially online. thanks.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:49 / 23.02.02
I'm with Suds on this : it would be equally disturbing if someone who was a known clansman, a rapist, a child molestor, a gay basher etc was a corporate pitchman. I mean, we don't have OJ Simpson pimping McDonalds in the US, and for good reason.

Also, the 'he was under the influence of alcohol' excuse doesn't fly so well, mostly because not all alcholics are violent wife-beaters, and that's that. I don't think it's a decent excuse.
 
 
Ganesh
14:56 / 23.02.02
(Honestly, this one could run and run. Continue the thread elsewhere, eh?)
 
 
suds
15:05 / 23.02.02
i started the whole thing...sorry ganesh.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
15:14 / 23.02.02
don't be sorry. I've moved the thread to the Head Shop. go to town.
 
 
Fist Fun
15:29 / 23.02.02
Ok so we have been moved to the headshop. Anyway, I really don't want to go into personal ground for you Suds and I really respect what you are saying, hugs and that...sorry.
I want this topic to be serious, cos it is a biggie. Lets try and avoid the silly point scoring and competitive sportsflaming ie you said that x was a bit more complex than that, so you are saying it ok to do x...or 'under the influence of alcohol == under the influence of alcoholism.'
If people fuck up, do terrible things under the influence of drug dependency then they should be treated, they should face up to their actions. We have to forgive though, we have to understand the nature of the condition.
What is the alternative...banishment?

[ 23-02-2002: Message edited by: Buk ]
 
 
netbanshee
16:50 / 23.02.02
...figures Wesley conversation wouldn't last that long...even on the lith. Oh well. Here's my vote for "Rock n' Roll McDonald's."...with a close 2nd with.."I whupped Batman's ass"...for D.C. comics...
 
 
Laughing
23:09 / 23.02.02
I typically ignore ads anyway, so the advertising companies can give money to whatever indie bands they want to and it won't bother me.

Oh, and the Nick Drake/Volkswagen spot? That commercial made me go out and buy Pink Moon, but so far I still haven't bought a Volkswagen.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
05:26 / 24.02.02
all i can say on the paul gasgoigne/wife beating thing is that a) he is still seen as a lively northern lad and that disturbs me greatly and b) as for alcohol/wife beating: there's always some fucking excuse....
 
 
Fist Fun
08:57 / 24.02.02
SFD: there is no excuse...but which do you think will combat violence against women? Labelling someone "a wife beating cunt" and suggesting they should never contribute to society ever again...or perhaps a little less condemnation and a little more effort to understand, to treat the problem, to face up to consequences, to prevent. To step outside the good-evil world that fits nicely with our preconceived ideas and confront the reality. Maybe that would actually reduce the violence... of course that isn't quite so simple to grasp, doesn't fit nicely on a manifesto...

I hate it when simplistic intuitive answers are thrown at complex serious problems.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
10:45 / 24.02.02
buk - i don't want to speak for suds, but really what pisses me off is that men like gasgoigne appear to be too readily forgiven, i think. i.e. glenn hoddle re-selecting him for england, talking of forgiveness, but with no hint of the condemnation for the crime which i feel should always accompany it.

sure, just calling someone a 'wife beating cunt' (a term i have trouble with anyway due to its misogynist leanings) is not going to change anything. understanding? all i know is that men who hit their partners are control freaks and bullies. yeah, we do have to stop this shit happening, but i see no reason why it shouldn't be underlined each time it comes up that beating women is unacceptable. men have to stop seeing women as their property. that's all.
 
  

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