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So...Magick? For kids?

 
  

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The Natural Way
19:46 / 28.02.03
Yes. Probably. What with (as Fraelyboy pointed out a few mins ago) all Disney's talk of Magick and such....

Magick isn't real - the sort of thing kids with a "really good imagine" are into - it must be for kids. How old are most of the magic posters anyway? I'm betting most of you are 18 or 19 - too young to have any idea about REAL LIFE and what it means.

Real LIFGE.
 
 
Jack Fear
19:52 / 28.02.03
Fuck's sake...

Did it ever occur to you, sonny Jim, that you, personally, might not know everything? Because, you know, thinking you've got the whole of "REAL LIFE" all sussed, that there is nothing in heaven or earth that is not dfreamed of in your philosophy...well, that's a completely adolescent tendency.
 
 
illmatic
20:06 / 28.02.03
Runce - are you drunk? Or on a wind up?

What's the point of this post?

And I'm 30, btw.
 
 
reFLUX
20:16 / 28.02.03
i haven't really written in this post, it's just an illusion. oooooooooooooo
 
 
thedude
20:18 / 28.02.03
Well, I'm 25!
And like most sceptics, in any walk of life, if you don't believe it and think you're being the ultra-rationalist, then why don't you walk the rationalist/scientific path - try the experiments with an objective mind and see what happens? If you don't believe it then, fine and good luck to you.
But if you do, then welcome . . .
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:29 / 28.02.03
29 over here. Runce, what are you on about?
 
 
Babooshka
20:32 / 28.02.03
Oh man Runce, you are too, too funny. Nothing like a bit of slumming in the ghetto, eh?

(I guess it's similar to me going into the Comics forum and talking about clowns & "cocoanuts" instead of graphic novels. I'm sure the bonny lads over there didn't appreciate that – sorry man. I'm new.)

Magick isn't real - the sort of thing kids with a "really good imagine" are into - it must be for kids.

Could you unpack that a bit? What's the difference between "kids with a 'really good imagine' " and the "kids" Magick must be for?
 
 
Trijhaos
21:06 / 28.02.03
I'm 20 and I can't believe that I've been deluding myself all this time? What have I been thinking? Why didn't anyone else speak up before now? My entire worldview has been completely shattered!

Isn't this whole thread akin to one of us going into the comics forum and saying, "Comics are just for kids, why are you lot talking about them like they're serious works of literature?"
 
 
Seth
21:58 / 28.02.03
Runce may be going somewhere with this. Let's hope so.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
22:07 / 28.02.03
21 and I've been practicing since I was a 12 year old... I was definitely a child then.
 
 
penitentvandal
22:28 / 28.02.03
Runce may or may not be drunk. I definitely am. So you've been warned.

FUCK OFF, YOU SAD, SAD FUCKING BASTARD. I mean, you can't even spell. 'Kids with a really good imagine'? No, it's imagination. I'm guessing if you weren't four or five then your fucking grade school teacher would have fucking told you that. Fuck off.

I'm 25, btw. And what the fuck do you know about quote unquote real life that makes you such an authority, eh? I beseech you in the bowels of Christ, Runce, think it possible that you may not know enough to tell all the rest of us what the fuck to believe. That any fucking blase assumption you fucking make may not be true. Come on, Runce. Imagine being wrong. You've dared us to do it, well I fucking double-dare you.

Oh, and if you're going to chuck around words like 'imagination', then I have two fucking words for you , mate. William, Blake. Think about that. And think, Runce, about the fact that no matter what piffling thing you want to say as a criticism of Blake, he's still more well-known than your arse will ever be. EVER. Full stop. How's that for magick, eh?

Disney and magick, what? WTF are you talking about?

Good god, Mordant, I never thought you were that old...

This post has been brought to you by velvetvandal, a large quantity of Jack Daniels, and the sephiroth of Geburah. Thank you very much.
 
 
Seth
22:55 / 28.02.03
I am also trolleyed. It is unusual that my drunkeness seems equivalent to most poster's best behaviour. It is therefore clear that I am King.

Anything else to say, Runce?
 
 
Raziel
23:07 / 28.02.03
You might want to do a bit more reading on the subject before you sit down and try to make a vaild statement about Magick and the people that practice it, Runce.

Last time I checked, most children aren't going about drawing sigils and then doing their best to reach gnosis or studying Norse deities... But then again, I'm not really in the loop with what the 9 year olds are doing nowadays, so I might be wrong.
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
23:16 / 28.02.03
Well I'm thinking this should be moved to Conversation.
reflect, mordant?

runce:

I am not a mage but I am of age
you're not a punk but you sound drunk
 
 
Papess
23:36 / 28.02.03
Funny, children are inherently magickal. This is a compliment not exactly an insult. If one wants to do magick, one must see the world through the eyes of a child, or in a wonderous, child-like way.

Of course, there is a lot to be said for maturity and a sober, responsible state of mind.......or not :P
 
 
Gary Lactus
01:49 / 01.03.03
Wow. You goys are all over twanty! That's so cool! I love Disney! The magic inspires me! How about tyou guiys? I am rtwelve and have been magic scince 8eight when I saw Lion King ?
 
 
The Natural Way
02:05 / 01.03.03


I know that is true, but when you get big gangs of kids together - I mean really big groups - they talk abiout dragons and knives coming out of walls and all of that stuff, but we all know they'll grow out of it.

I tried being magic the other night, but when they saw me in my hat they all laughed...and I think this is a lesson for us all.

Velvet vandal: swearing isn't the way. You think it is, but it's not. I would like to unpack this with you. Take it off! Take it all off, and talk about magic. Like a grown up...or I am right all along.

The dog above is what any magic would call a "familiar".
 
 
Gary Lactus
02:16 / 01.03.03
I loved my dog Brian. He was a magic dog and my best friend. I guess you could say that I was "Familliar" withthth him. The other day I spunked And won a million pounds. I love that little mermaid, she's so hot! MSn! I am 21!

Super COOL!!!
 
 
The Natural Way
02:33 / 01.03.03
But you're not making any sense. We came here to talk about magick. Your dog Brian? WTF?

Anyway.....moving swiftly on.......

What I've been trying to get at people - in all my posts on this page - is why children get such a raw deal. If we just accept that they are not maick, and that they're magick beliefs do not exist, then we are not insulting anyone. Least of all ourselves.

So, I am not insulting you, and youy do not have to be insulted when I tell you it is all not real.

When my friend Chris Horn told me that "Sixth Form is for kids" I thought he was a prick. But sometimes you have to acceopt - as I do now - that this is the actual fact of REALITY (the School of Hard Knocks).
 
 
gravitybitch
05:10 / 01.03.03
Why do children get such a raw deal??
From whom?? (This also needs unpacking... and an explanation on how it applies to the over-40 crowd...)
 
 
penitentvandal
09:29 / 01.03.03
Swearing may not be the way, Runce, but it sure is fun.

Oh, and reflect - I think I must be king, because despite being so slaughtered as to turn into Sergeant Vandal and his Howling Second Circuit last night, I have absolutely no hangover. How cool is that?

In all seriousness - I think I was a bit quick to criticise you as stupid last night, Runce, because from the tone of your subsequent posts you clearly aren't a native English speaker. Being slightly dulled last night I wasn't keen enough to notice this the first time. Also, the tone of your first post - which wobbled between incoherence and insult - sort of pushed my buttons. Some terms I'd like you to unpack:

real life: what is it? Is my 'real life' the same as your 'real life'? Do either of us have the same 'real life' as a Catholic nun, a Muslim zealot, or a Haitian voudounista? Do any of us even have the same 'real life' as the guy next door?

On a related topic, as I say, what makes you qualified to judge what is 'real life' and what isn't? To make such a judgement with any degree of accuracy I'd say you'd need a good solid grounding in physics, linguistics, philosophy, sociology, perceptual psychology - and those are just the disciplines I can think of off the top of my beautiful head. Are you qualified in all those disciplines, Runcible? Or are you just another paid-up member of the dreary 'common sense' brigade?

Grown-ups/kids: at exactly what age, Runce, does one gain the maturity to incontrovertibly know this 'real life' of which you speak? 16? 18? 24? 30? Are you assuming that we all suddenly agree on exactly what constitutes 'real life' when we reach the age of majority? How about the fact that that age is different in other countries? In America, I couldn't legally buy a beer until I was 21 - but in the UK, I could participate in that heady Dionysiac privilege from the age of 18 (not that this stopped me sneaking bottles of vodka into the pub when I was younger than that, like...). If we can't, as people, agree on what age you're 'grown-up' enough to buy a beer, how can we agree how old you have to be to understand 'real life'?

There are cultures that have very strong, ritual traditions of initiation, after which their children are considered old enough to know what's going down in the tribe's reality-tunnel - but these initiatory cultures are often explicitly magickal - so I don't think you'd like that, now would you?

Oh, and as for your picture of Lassie - yes, some magicians would consider their dog a familiar and might use it in some ways for their magickal purposes - though probably not, one hopes, through having sex with the poor thing. But myself, all I see in that picture is a rather confused-looking border collie. Let it go, Runce. It belongs with its family. Let Lassie come home.

On the plus side, I am going to rip off that 'sixth-form is for kids' line wholesale, though.

Oh, and fraelyboy - you're an idiot, you're not impressing anyone, and you're anally raping your own argument to death because mate, I've met nine year olds who are more articulate and insightful than you (apologies if you turn out to be, y'know, seven, like. Hate to think I was raggin' on a child.).

Oh, and check it out - an entire post with no swearing in. Suck on that, ya cunts.
 
 
penitentvandal
09:34 / 01.03.03
Oh, and Runce - one important aspect of magick is the idea that your view of reality defines the kind of reality in which you live. So if you believe in the dull 'School of Hard Knocks' model of existence, you would probably become a dreary, depressive, unimaginative fellow who tended to put people on a downer, bring out the worst in them, and often elicited aggressive or disparaging responses from those who you engaged in conversation, for example.

So yes, I see your point. There's no way anything like that could ever happen to someone like you, is there?

Pffffffrrrrrrt!
 
 
Jack Fear
09:41 / 01.03.03
Runce: Do you believe in God? Or is that "kid's stuff," too?
 
 
glassonion
12:09 / 01.03.03
in one of the books i like to speak of oftimes with li'l runce, by either hine or antero ali, can't quite remember, there's one of those liss that all the chaos books havewhere there's a little list of all the common binaries magickal ones should seek to confront, dissolve, assimilate in order to progress or whatever. you all know the kind of things i mean:

NICE - NASTY
LEFT - RIGHT
UP - DOWN
SELF - OTHER
MAGIC - MUNDANE

all that kind of thing. this particular book had the following at the bottom of its list and briefly mentioned how often it was overlooked by so many modern practicioners, and how this leads to, among other pretty tiresome things EMPIRE WITHOUT END:

SERIOUS - HUMOUROUS

now leaving aside the fact people bother to whizz around internet when drunk, did none of the shouters, swearers or 'i'm old enough to buy fireworks actually' respondees not even chuckle a little bit when the counter-response was a huge doggone photo? [if i may, given that this thread started about disney, to answer criticisms with a picture of a dog is a bit of savage pisstakery that i don't think anyone quite picked up on.] thank fuck he didn't react to someone harmlessly straying onto his ideological territory in the way that the magickians here did, as he could have easily responded with a dense tract explaining the results he has had working with urica-derived tattva practice; tantric meditation; shamanic trance ritual; or pointed out that his interpretation of the aeonic currents and fifth-dimensional metaphors in the invisibles has been given a ringing endorsement by the author. [sadly he's got me to do it all for him, as the 'puter is on and i'm trying to avoid doing any real work.]

as for fraely boy well shit he's no expert tho his flatmate [trump 9] is arguably on his way, so it's in the air. know it or not fraely's favourite godform is probably the trickster, so it's stupid babbling but in the purity of its stupidity has picked up some unconscious wisdom: 'that little mermaid - she's so hot!' is a statement that i can easily find some 'magickal' truth in. and last night he offered to make me rich, so i'm on his team too.

and to do my bit for the debate disney's magic as fuck, but i think bad magic: the idealized men and women are mice, the stupid are dogs, and the second-circuit goose gets his way and sires wealthy heirs. disney is to our world's young the single largest disseminator of mythopeic themes on the planet. no-one understands psychogeography until they've been to disneyland.
 
 
illmatic
12:45 / 01.03.03
I think my first response was lacking in humour (that's why I edited it)so my apologies, but, Friday night everyone's pissed etc and it wsn't much of an coherent arguement, was it ?(Runce's first post, I mean) I still don't quite get what Runce is on about though... children's fantasies the same as Magickal thinking? A similarity there? Might have a point, don't know till he expands. It might be good to be bit of naive and stupid so we can see things differently.
 
 
glassonion
12:59 / 01.03.03
'children's fantasies the same as Magickal thinking?...might have a point'

well, yeah. 'lest ye be like unto a child' even the bible's got that one. only children and shamans talk seriously about seeing fairies.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:11 / 01.03.03
Isn't that PATricky's dog?
 
 
Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns
14:08 / 01.03.03
This is ridiculous, Magic is NOT for bloody kids! In the hands of an "ignorant" magic can be an incredibly uncontrolable destructive force. An "ignorant" can not even begin to comprehend thier importance in the Grand Plan, let alone be let loose on the magical universe. With that learning comes responsibility.
This aside, Magic mainly appeals to young adults, due to the difficulty that they experience when coming of age. They want to remain children. It is a painfull process becoming a man.

Best Of Luck.My Young Friends.
 
 
Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns
14:13 / 01.03.03

A Thought:

A child is in awe, when confronted with Blaine.
A man feels fear, is cautious and will look again.
 
 
Secularius
14:22 / 01.03.03
I think Runce is the only kid in here. At least he's the only one that can't spell properly. By the way, I'm 23.
 
 
The Natural Way
15:05 / 01.03.03
My mate Chris Horn is an MC. When he gets on the mic he chats about the Actual Facts of Reality (The School of Hard Knocks) - snd he CAN. While very young men are drawing pentagrams, Chris has to graft for a living. What's he gonna make of all this business? Aaah yes, I think we all know what Chris would say.....

"Look at those fools in their hats!"

My Grandfather was always very impressed by students at Harrow Boy's School. We'd drive around town with him pointing them out:

"Look, the BOYS! In their HATS!"

It is all a question of perspective. Obviously. Just take a look with yr own eyes.



For real.
 
 
The Natural Way
15:11 / 01.03.03


A question of PERSPECTIVE.
 
 
Babooshka
17:54 / 01.03.03
I know that is true, but when you get big gangs of kids together - I mean really big groups - they talk abiout dragons and knives coming out of walls and all of that stuff, but we all know they'll grow out of it.

I tried being magic the other night, but when they saw me in my hat they all laughed...and I think this is a lesson for us all. – Runce


Yeah, I see what you're saying here. The idea is not to "try being magic", but to let things flow...like children do. Do you think the majority of posters to the Magick Forum are trying too hard to "be" whatever they *think* magick is, and thereby missing opportunities to appreciate magick for what it actually does?

did none of the shouters, swearers or 'i'm old enough to buy fireworks actually' respondees not even chuckle a little bit when the counter-response was a huge doggone photo? – glassonion

I chuckled a lot. But I'm not down with Disney either, man...they're one of my boss' clients, and the fuckers never pay their bills on time...

While very young men are drawing pentagrams, Chris has to graft for a living. – Runce

So do I. magick is not about escaping from life; it's about interacting with life. For me, anyway.
 
 
Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns
18:15 / 01.03.03
So do I. magick is not about escaping from life; it's about interacting with life. For me, anyway. #Babooshka

Although this comment can be apprecieated it is not entirely true. I have escaped from life many a time using magics. Wizardry can provide escape from the stickiest of situations. Postions and magic scrolls can open hidden doors on most levels; except for level 6 which is locked of course.
Anyway I digress, but I think you know what I mean.
 
 
Babooshka
18:22 / 01.03.03
It is unusual that my drunkeness seems equivalent to most posters' best behaviour. – reflect

Yeah, some of these responses are a bit childish, aren't they?

Which is not the same as childlike, although "ignorant" people tend to confuse the two.

But don't mind me, I'm rather drunk myself...
 
  

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