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Misogyny, breast size and the Barbie PC - Gender and Computer Gaming

 
  

Page: 1(2)3

 
 
grant
18:54 / 19.11.01
The only two people I've known who got hooked on Everquest -type games (EQ and the one on the alien planet with the warring cyberpunk clans) were girls.
If I recall, both played female-but-not-human characters. The EQ player was a lizardwoman.
Maybe it's because those games had a social component, maybe not.
 
 
Ariadne
20:09 / 19.11.01
If I can just pop back in here as a woman-who-doesn't-play-computer-games, the high school one actually sounds quite interesting, in a weird way... and I hated school, so there's no desire to 'go back'.

But, hmmm, it would be intriguing to play. And believe me, that's not something I'd often say about computer games. It depends how well it's done and how many layers of complexity are there and so on, but it could be quite interesting.

Or it could be crap, of course. But I'd give it a shot.

Does that prove some big gap between the sexes? Or is it a 'gentle, empathetic character' versus a more agressive one that really causes the split?

I really don't know. Not many of my friends would describe me as gentle and empathetic, mind you.

[ 19-11-2001: Message edited by: Ariadne ]
 
 
Shortfatdyke
05:01 / 20.11.01
n.b.: i've just seen an ad for the tombraider video/dvd. a big pic of angelina jolie and her unfeasibly huge breasts with the words "take me home". now how girl friendly is that?

there was a good article by a woman in the guardian about tombraider & lara croft's superficial power - after all, she's at the player's beck and call. can't for the life of me remember when it was, tho....

[ 20-11-2001: Message edited by: shortfatdyke ]
 
 
Ethan Hawke
11:09 / 20.11.01
quote:Originally posted by The Haus of Penitents:
As for video games being escapist - how does the ability to replay a first day at school over and over again resemble reality?

Of course all video games are in some sense escapist, but I'm responding to Laurel's assertion that the "girl game paradigm" includes 'realistic situations and realistic characters'. The game described above about Rockett's first day at school is created around an experience that we've all had. Thus, it is less escapist in the sense that while we all have gone to school (except for the home schooled xtian nutters) we haven't all fought aliens, played pro basketball against Kobe Bryant, marshalled our forces to defeat Hitler, or constructed monumental cities.

Even the most prosaic and mundane of current games are escapists fantasies in this way. For instance, there was a popular bass fishing game. Why would anyone want to play a video game about bass fishing when it is such a mundane activity? Well, in the game you don't have to sit around for hours, catching little tiny fish. You can catch the biggest most rare fish. You've become in effect an extraordinary bass fisherman. The appeal of the Sims, where you play "ordinary" people is not the "ordinariness" of their lives but rather the fact that if you work hard enough at developing the skills you'll be able to afford your Sims all sorts of creature comforts that are unavailable to common scum. The Sims allows you to play at being extraordinarily rich and successful people.

The mechanism of enjoyment for video games seems to be at some basic level "wish fulfillment" (even if it is just a sublimated wish for "completion").

I suggest, if we really want to discuss this further, we should develop a taxonomy of types of games, because there are different issues in "God Games", realistic simulations, sports games, shooters, fighting games, RPGs, side scrollers, etc.

quote:
If you are a transvestite infantilist Bruce Willis?


I'm finding it exceedingly difficult to parse this sentence this morning. Do expand, please.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:15 / 20.11.01
transvestite - because you are not in fact female.

infantilist - because you are no longer in eighth grade.

Bruce Willis - ALL RIGHT! I WAS WRONG, GODDAMMIT! I meant "Bill Murray". As in groundhog day. As in being able to repeat a single day over and over again.

Of course, Purple Moon games, Laurel's then employer, did fold, which may suggest she was wrong about what constituted a good "girl game". Likewise, there are many women of various ages who love to play Quake (for example), and have formed communities like Clan PMS and the Crack Whores the better to do so. They might dispute the view that there is any need for "girl games", however those might define themselves, at all.
 
 
ephemerat
11:33 / 20.11.01
quote:Originally posted by shortfatdyke:
there was a good article by a woman in the guardian about tombraider & lara croft's superficial power - after all, she's at the player's beck and call. can't for the life of me remember when it was, tho....


I think this one was the most recent but there was a whole slew of similar articles back in the initial frenzy that was Tomb Raider. Douglas Coupland's official Tomb Raider book also makes a similar point but from Lara Croft's own internal musing. And with an amusingly Coupland-esque slant.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
11:33 / 20.11.01
[threadrot] I'd quite like to see Dr Venkman do Die Hard. That would rock. [/threadrot]
 
 
that
12:32 / 20.11.01
I quite enjoy the Tomb Raider games...but they are also far more than a little bit dodgy in ways that have little or nothing to do with gender. For instance, in the third Tomb Raider, she is on this 'South Sea island' and has to decimate the indigenous population before she can move on - a seriously disturbing attitude in evidence there, I think you'll agree. Ok, so she's acting in (often pre-emptive) 'self defense', but she is of course there to steal stuff from these people, basically. The very premise of Tomb Raider is fairly fucked up, no?

And, oh yeah, not satisfied with the human death toll, let's kill some endangered species and the occasional dinosaur while we're at it. And have gratutious tits and arse shots, occasionally thrust suggestively against a sarcophagus while stealing an ankh (anyone else notice that in 'The Last Revelation'?) and bringing about the end of the world, and yes, die orgasmically.

Not to mention the fact she is basically carting about a big cock all the time - the female instrument of male colonialist violence?

But, having said that, and despite the fact it annoys me and disturbs me greatly...I do enjoy the game, though I really shouldn't. And I think sfd might agree with me here - quite a few of the people on at least one online lesbian messageboard were at least as enamoured with those pneumatic tits as the average heterosexual male (at least with regard to the film version).

It annoys the hell out of me that she can't do hand to hand combat though. I am a latecomer to the Playstation, and to computer games in general - I used to love Tetris, the card version of Solitaire, and Mah Jongg, on the PC. And then my ex introduced me to Playstation games. Quite a lot of them bore me, and my experience is still limited, I haven't got the cash, the time, or the access to become conversant with many games, and do not play often anyway - I enjoyed Tekken and Crash Bandicoot as well as Tomb Raider, and am a lot better at those that I am at driving games of any sort. Like Kooky mentioned, people have commented to me also about how cool and unusual it is that I as a girl am not afraid to try my hand at Playstation games...and, like playing marbles or mixing concrete, males are sometimes surprised when a girl can do it as well or better than they can themselves (no offense meant - this is from personal experience, and I do not wish to make any sort of generalisation about 'all males' or 'all females'). I am not sure if a different type of game would appeal more to women in general... I think, to an extent, that I put aside my principles to play Tomb Raider... and I would like not to be put in that position. But, would these games be as popular with the real target audience, the teenage boy market, if they didn't have at least some of the problems that people here have mentioned? Or are games companies underestimating the intelligence and political awareness of the teenage boy market? I don't know very many teenage boys, so I can't answer that one... but there is my tuppence worth, anyway...
 
 
that
12:36 / 20.11.01
Oh, I just realised, there is probably something there about the fact that a woman unleashed the force that could destroy the world - harks back to the garden of Eden thing, wouldn't you say?
 
 
Ethan Hawke
12:42 / 20.11.01
Oh, I just remembered a conversation I had with my girlfriend last night, after sharing a bottle of wine:

Me: So what video games have you ever liked to play?

Her: Um, Super Mario Brothers.

Me: Why did you like it?

Her: Because it was easy! You just press A and B and run and grab those coins, and you feel really satisfied when you finish a level...not like that bullshit you guys used to play in willimantic--

Me: Crash Bandicoot?

Her: yeah, where you had to time out all the jumps and remember what to do where, or read about things in a book. Who has the fucking time to do that?

Me: Actually, Crash Bandicoot and Super Mario brothers are pretty much the same concept in that--

Her: Whatever. Mario was fun. It was like ooh, look I picked up 40 gold things. Ooh, I got an extra life! Yeah!

--------

We're actually really intelligent people. I promise. (and in my defense ever since I started Zoloft alcohol has been affecting me much, much more).
 
 
Shortfatdyke
13:04 / 20.11.01
no, chol, you are mistaken. all lesbians are sound, sorted etc. well ok there are a few women in THAT room who were drooling over angelina jolie, i never noticed anything about the game character, tho'. actually most of the dykes i hang around with ARE sorted about this stuff, although i have one 'friend' (you know who i mean!) who was obsessed with angelina, to the extent of buying a tombraider phone etc. pathetic really.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
13:38 / 20.11.01
quote:Originally posted by shortfatdyke:
n.b.: i've just seen an ad for the tombraider video/dvd. a big pic of angelina jolie and her unfeasibly huge breasts with the words "take me home". now how girl friendly is that?



On this same tip, flipping through a magazine last night, I saw an ad for "Tomb Raider" DVD/VHS with Ms. angelina in a very sexualized pose followed by the quote "Angelina Jolie DELIVERS!" and I thought pretty much the same thing, sfd.

I don't play too many video games. When I was a youngster I did actually play fairly often but this was back in the 80s and we're talking Atari, Space Invaders, Frogger, etc. I think I pretty much stopped playing around "Super Mario 3." But I had fun playing them. Even now I love going to the arcade and in a decidedly-Non-Kooky fashion the first game I play is "Police Trainer" because I love doing the shoot 'em up. (Second is 'Cruisin' USA' but I digress).

So I'm not really a big game player but if I had to play, probably first choice would be shoot 'em up or something requiring some strategy, however NOT violent. I can't stand the way video characters spurt blood all over the place and it's just a game to kill someone. I feel like this puts me really out of touch but I just get very angry at the idea of violence being so trivialized; to me that is a very dangerous thing.

As far as the women thing goes, they're basically just an extension of the big-breasted superbabe genre from comics. I'm not a fan of playing a game where I all ready feel inferior because I'm never going to look like Lara Croft. I've played Tomb Raider but that's one reason I haven't been able to get into it definitely.

And how is this field of entertainment ANY different than any other field in terms of how women are treated, and what's marketed to whom? We know that an action flick will be marketed to both men and women, and we know that a love story, or a story about two women will be designated a "chick flick." Which is not to say that either gender genre doesn't appeal to either sex, because I believe both can.

I just feel that the video game industry, like the comic book industry, is more blatant in its sexism.
 
 
deja_vroom
14:18 / 20.11.01
My two cents:
Been years since I don't play computer games (having a 1.6 Gb 120 Mhz PC doesn't help), but if I remember correctly, in Starcraft - Brood War (Best Game Ever), they created a female doctor which, if you kept clicking on, would go through a series of phrases, beggining with serious/health related ones and then descending into double entendre-filled comments, which unfortunately I can't quote from memory. She would sigh a lot, also.

[ 20-11-2001: Message edited by: Imperador de Jade ]
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:25 / 21.11.01
Hmmm....there's a description in the last chapter of Rosanna Stone's "The War of Desire and Technology in the Computer Age" describing the entry screen of a game in which two soldiers, a man and a woman, are sleeping on bunk beds. Click on the man and nothing happens, click on the woman and she pops up, revealing herself to be naked under the sheet, with a hearty send-off. Or something along those lines - I don't have the book with me right now.

Apparently the head of programming was utterly shocked and livid when told from on high to amend this.
 
 
Bear
07:36 / 21.11.01
Like in Metal Geat Solid, if you crawled through a ventalation shaft three times and looked down and the female character the 3rd time she would be exercising in her underwear, thats got to be for the benfit for young teen males

Noticed Pop Star manager the other day, I think they're pushing that as a girls game, and there's also those Playstation games with those Evil Olsen twins which sound terrible, like the Olsen diary editor or some such crap..
 
 
Cat Chant
07:09 / 22.11.01
Damn. I wanted to do something more theoretical about this (but feminist film theory is the usual suspect when it comes to thinking about videogames, and I kind of skipped that), but I just have to say that I love Lara Croft. She's so strong and brave! She has lovely strong calves and makes little determined noises when she climbs up a ladder. She never gets tired, or gives up. She sees a big chasm with spikes over it, and just dusts her hands off and jumps over it. She's competent and skilful and brave and strong.

I mean, I used to hate her for all the T&A reasons other people have advanced. Then I got hooked on playing TombRaider and just fell in love with her. Now I just hate TombRaider for its massacre-of-black-people moments, really.

And just as I would argue that there is something more to my admiration of Lara than internalizing my own oppression - isn't there something more to the issue of cross-gendered identification in gaming than just 14yo boys looking at Lara's tits?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:18 / 22.11.01
I would agree that Lara Croft is a highly ambiguous figure.

Cassell's position is that Croft is actually, rather than making boys identify with femaleness or with being female, is rather making them identify with vulnerability - becasuse Lara is a woman, see, which expresses vulnerability better than having a male character does. I think that's reaching, personally.

Especially since, in a sense, a boy playing Tomb Raider, or being Chun Li for that matter, is on some level an exercise in drag. They are taking on female skin, and taking responsibility for keeping it reasonably unpunctured. Or are they? Are they instead exerting *total control* over a female character - taking the power of life and death.

"Who's that?"
"Lara Croft"
"What's she doing?"
"Drowning"
"Is that what she's meant to do?"
"Depends what kind of mood you're in really."

Lara Croft is strong, resourceful (theoretically, although of corse the motivating mind is the player's), athletic, and the only character in the whole thing for whom staying alive is a necessity.

On the other hand, she does have really large breasts for no good reason. Poole in "Trigger Happy" is quite good on the unreality of Croft's presentation - that she would in fact be less attractive if she looked more human.

Where the problems are less ambiguous, I think, is in Eidos' presentation *of* Croft in marketing and merchandising in meatspace. The hiring of an "official Lara Croft spokesmodel" seems to be a reasonably unambiguously crap thing to do, IMHO.

So yes - is Lara Croft empowering and great - a capable woman kicking ass and taking names - or a passive object of desire, be that deisre for sex, violence or death?

Also of interest off the top of my head are Douglas Coupland - "Lara's Book" and a 2000AD sci-fi special story about Venus Bluegenes written by Grant Morrison.
 
 
GRIM
08:18 / 22.11.01
Rigth or wrong, good or bad its what sells, and thats what matters.

To women they'll market them as 'Strong female leads' to men they'll market them as 'babes'.

Its just money, which provides people with what they'll buy.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:18 / 22.11.01
But is it right or wrong? And is the status of strong female role model compromised by the status of "babe"? Are women more likely to buy Tomb Raider than Metal Gear Solid? Compare possibly Xena and Buffy...does the desire set of men and women split neatly down the middle (babes and fights for the boys, character interaction and strong female role models and friendships for the girls). And, if it is wrong, or not desirable, how would one go about changing that.

With the utmost respect, GRIM, I think the previous three pages of posts have not been created in the context of a complete ignorance of the existence of Capitalism.
 
 
moriarty
12:28 / 22.11.01
quote:Originally posted by The Haus of I.Ds:
They are taking on female skin, and taking responsibility for keeping it reasonably unpunctured. Or are they? Are they instead exerting *total control* over a female character - taking the power of life and death.


Or is it possible that it all depends on how competent the player is? That those boys who do well at the game will feel a sense of accomplishment that will bring them closer to feeling like they are inhabiting Laura's skin, while those who aren't so great at playing the game will feel inadequate and blame Laura for their own problems.

Kind of like real life, that.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:32 / 22.11.01
Success in real life makes you more like a woman? It's a philosophy I like, but I'm not entirely sure I have understood it aright...
 
 
GRIM
12:35 / 22.11.01
quote:Originally posted by The Haus of I.Ds:
With the utmost respect, GRIM, I think the previous three pages of posts have not been created in the context of a complete ignorance of the existence of Capitalism.


Just felt things were getting a little bit overblown.
Nice to have a non flamy comment for once.

The market is certainly percieved to be split that way, and since the things sell and there are more female gamers than ever before (Computer and other) the approach seems to be working.

Whether thats because we do actually fit those stereotypes, or because society forms us to fit those stereotypes is a much bigger (and very interesting) discussion.

With specific regard to Lara she does nothing for me, but perhaps thats the hype and sheer blatancy of it.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:49 / 22.11.01
But is it the case that "that's how they are sold"? Is there an ad campaign pushing Lara Croft as a strong female role model, and does it incite young women to buy Tomb Raider. Are more women buying and playing games than previously, and if so which games?

For this contribution to be useful, it needs to be supported by statistics rather than opinions.

INcidentally - to look at another angle - there's an interesting statement in "QFrom Barbie to Mortal Konbat", where a designer with a background in gender studies points out that computers are generally represented as a masculine province, but with a very traditionally feminine set of attributes. They are unable to act independently, or to interact with the user as an equal. They depend on other people to give them instructions, and then perform them.

Another possible offshoot - a computer, it has been observed, is functionally an extremely versatile emulator. My PC can emulate a Spectrum, or an Atari ST, or a telephone, or a television, or a word processor. What can be emulated bvy a computer which already exists in the sphere of female entertainment. If Half-Life or Quake in some ways emulates an action movie or a "real live fight", what emulates a chickflick or a girls' night out? And are such distinctions a) meaningful and b) helpful?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:59 / 22.11.01
Although you are sufficiently involved to refer to her with familiarity as "Lara", coincidentally also the patented name of the range of clothing bearing her branding...

Just lost a big post, basically asking whether there are statistics to support the claim of a growing proportion of female computer gamers, and, just as importantly, which games they are playing. And to ask whether there has ever been a Tomb Raider ad campaign targeting women.

Also to ask, if we see a computer as a highly versatile emulator, what should be emulated to appeal to a female audience, and whether that concept is a) relevant or b) helpful. I for one am already suspicious of the "female audience" as a concept.
 
 
No star here laces
13:03 / 22.11.01
I have to insert a slight reality check here.

Computer games are big business. Computer game manufacturers are large corporations.

The decision on how to make 'games for girls' will not be made by some Colonel Blimp sitting behind an oak desk saying "hmmm, yes, pretty things, lots of pink, flowers, horses and interpersonal dynamics, that's what'll sell".

No, it will be made by spending huge amounts of money in order toask girls what they want to play. In vast numbers. The primary reason why games designed for 12-18 year old girls are the way they are is because that's what those girls said they wanted to play.

Now it may well be that those same girls are hopelessly corrupted by innate cultural prejudices about 'what girls like'. But it is unlikely to be the case that computer game manufacturers produce this stuff out of sheer laziness or incomprehension.

Films which are designed by big studios to appeal to women often feature those same elements - a less fantastical setting. More focus on relationships and less on conflict. Etc. And they appear to appeal to women very successfully. Same with literature.

The only difference with games is that less women play them full stop.

So surely the key dynamic here is actually that computer games are less appealing to women, not that the range of games on offer for women is weak?

I'd also point out to all barbeloids: remember, you are a weirdo. Your experience is not representative of the general population. Do not attempt to speak on their behalf.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:39 / 22.11.01
I agree entirely with the last paragraph. Experiential evidence is a useful tool but it isn't a whole toolset.

So why are there fewer female gamers? Better things to do with their time? Technology not yet sufficiently advanced to match expectations? The better designers being headhunted to make more profitable "boy games"?

OH, Ly/Ty/others - if you're interested, there is an account of the focusing process in the creation of a "girl game" in the Interview in the book that sparked this off. Heather Kelley runs (or ran) www.planetgirlcom, a community for teen girls which feeds demographic info and provides testers to Girl Games Inc.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:45 / 22.11.01
Article touching on, among other things, Lara Croft, game marketing and - god damn it - Nancy Drew
 
 
moriarty
16:56 / 22.11.01
quote:Originally posted by The Haus of I.Ds:
Success in real life makes you more like a woman?


Well, it does for me...

OK, so I posted that when I was half asleep. I just woke up a few minutes ago knowing that I had posted something stupid, but not remembering where or what. So, feel free to ignore the last, cheeky bit of my previous post.

To elaborate a little, I've noticed through observation of people playing video games that when they lose they will often blame the game or the equipment, but will rarely blame themselves. I've never seen anyone playing Tomb Raider, but if it's anything like, say, Goldeneye, then you may have players screaming "You fucking asshole! Why won't you shoot straight!!!" referring to their character. On the other hand, when they succeed they are quick to take credit. "Man, I can't believe I beat the Big Boss." Therefore, when they lose, they use the game, and often the character, as a scapegoat for their lack of skill, which acts as a buffer to them becoming the character. But when they win, the character and the player are one and the same.

But I don't play video games, so what do I know?

[ 22-11-2001: Message edited by: moriarty ]
 
 
Cat Chant
20:18 / 22.11.01
quote:Originally posted by moriarty:
To elaborate a little, I've noticed through observation of people playing video games that when they lose they will often blame the game or the equipment, but will rarely blame themselves.


Yep. I got much stick from my ex-housemate person for shouting "Bitch! Fucking *jump* when I tell you, you stupid cow!" at Lara, but switched to gender-neutral terms of abuse and all was well...

Sorry. I promise to post something intelligent in this thread someday. Meanwhile, you must just wait for the article on videogames and synthespians in the next-but-one issue of parallax, Immanent Trajectories.
 
 
Mordant Carnival
20:46 / 22.11.01
I can't help but feel that the stereotypical reprensentations of the male body in some games are pretty damaging as well- all those ludicrous, musclebound, ubertesteroidal characters in the beat-em-ups, for example. And I have heard gaggles of teenage girls discussing the rival merits of these characters in much the same way as blokes might discuss Lara Croft (very occasionally, it has to be said, but it does happen).

As a gamer, I like strategy games*- especially Shogun, Civ, the new Populous, Heros of Might and Magic- and the more recent crop of RPGs**: Balder's Gate 1 & 2, Icewind Dale. (And no, I didn't "like" Planescape Torment. Me and Planescape Torment were involved. We were an item.) There's certainly an adolecent vibe in the way that females are drawn and to some extent characterized in these games, but it doesn't really interfere with the gameplay. I'm hoping that as developers realize these kinds of game attract female players (and they do), there'll be a shift away from the old chainmail-bikini mindset and towards more enlightened attitudes.


*And you can all stop laughing, okay?
**Look, I said stop laughing! Stop laughing now!
 
 
Perfect Tommy
01:47 / 23.11.01
Okay. I guess it's a good a time as any to point out that I play way too much EverQuest. I play much less than I used to, but, still.

There is quite a bit of social interaction, and I always figured that this was a big source of attraction for the (what appeared to be) comparatively large female audience. However, something that I noticed was that the women who seemed to be most interested in the social aspects tended to play characters that were "support" characters; healers and so forth, who don't necessarily get into the thick of combats, but are good to have around for the magic they can use to make other characters better fighters.

The women who weren't as interested in the social aspects, who were more likely to talk strategy, and seemed to be overall more interested in improving their game skills, tended to be the fighters who wade into a horde of monsters and lay about with great big swords and axes.

If I wanted to be clever, I would call the former "Willows" and the latter "Buffies." As both groups learn more about the game, they might switch the type of characters they like to play based on information about the game, but when women I knew first started to play, their characters were pretty good predictions of whether they were more interested in gameplay or in social interaction.

Another set of random points:
  • Of the women I know personally who play, maybe three-quarters picked a character who looked something like them (at least with the first character or two they tried). Boys never seem to take what they look like into account when picking a face and hair color. I can't guess the significance. (And of course there are plenty of exceptions, like grant's lizard-woman friend unless she has extensive facial tattooing.)
  • I'm not generally bothered by unrealistic body types in EverQuest. However, the troubling thing with the new character models being released soon is that all the unrealistic body types seem to be the same unrealistic body types. The character designers seemed to throw enormous bosoms everywhere, rather than having unrealistically attractive slender girlish wood elves, and unrealistically attractive glamourous high elves, and unrealistically attractive muscular barbarians.
  • EverQuest has an art department with a split personality. Some female models have functional-looking armor; others look like dominatrices in chain mail, a look that sort of makes sense for the perverse dark elves, but it's sort of strange for a human high priestess of the God of Tranquility to be in chain-mail fishnets. I've known RL women who played characters with both types of armor; whether they knew what they would look like once they had some armor to wear, I don't know.
Also, I really don't know if this site uses too much terminology for a non-EQ-player to understand, but it looked sorta interesting. Mostly I just stuck to the section on gender-bending in RPGs, which I did extensively (though not exclusively). That experience was fascinating for all sorts of reasons.
 
 
Molly Shortcake
01:50 / 23.11.01
I tend not to think of game characters as male of female, they just seem so asexual to me. It's like Halloween; every identity is a false one.

I've read lots of cyber feminist theory on female game characters.....they tend to over analyize everything and often admitedly, don't understand video games.

I've been playing with female characters well over a decade before they became popular. My initial exposure (and game character I most identify with) is Alis from Phantasy Star

quote:One of the most unique things about Phantasy Star is the fact that in the game, you play a woman. This is almost ten years before Tomb Raider, and the only thing comparable to this at the time, was Metroid. Of course, there isn't any secret code to make the main character remove her clothing if you win here, sorry to disappoint you. Alis is probably the only intelligent, strong female-lead in videogame history who wasn't scantily clad, or marketed as a sex symbol. It's odd that this should seem so odd to me now, because at the time I first started playing this game (oy... almost 10 years ago) it didn't seem strange at all. This being the early days of videogames, the conventions that we accept as being carved in stone now simply didn't exist at the time. It is a sad comment on modern videogames that Phantasy Star should be as unique as it is after a decade has passed.

In the past I've been called all sorts of names; faggot, gay, pansy - just for choosing female characters. They all shut up after being humiliated by my Chun Li.

Check out Jill Valentine in the first Resident Evil, they actually modeled her nipples! My initial reaction upon this discovery: "This game is SO sexist, I love it."

Does anyone REALLY find Laura Croft attractive? She like some kind of perverse Barbie doll manaquin...and those triangular breasts! Disgusted myself.

In my many years of gaming I've noticed that most girls tend to enjoy RPG's and puzzle games. Most girl gamers I've encountered have this BS PC attitute that usually goes like this:

"You think just cause I'm a girl I can't play video games!"

"I never said that, you just don't seem to know very much about video games."

"I can beat you in any fighting game!"

Tekken. Virtua Fighter. Street Fighter. I destroy them. They're emotionally distraught. I don't even employ my standard trash talking.

It's not about the game at all; young women desperately want to be listened to and treated as equals, but many seem emotionally unable to take the lumps that come with it. Video games are a strange stage for this to play out on.

Be sure to check out Electronic Gaming Monthly for your regular dose of true girl gamer, Jeanne Kim.

[ 23-11-2001: Message edited by: Ice Honkey U.B.C.S ]
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
06:40 / 23.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Ice Honkey U.B.C.S:
I tend not to think of game characters as male of female, they just seem so asexual to me. It's like Halloween; every identity is a false one.

I've read lots of cyber feminist theory on female game characters.....they tend to over analyize everything and often admitedly, don't understand video games.


And the first paragraph gave me such hope...

I did notice in Cassell's introduction to the book I'm reading at present that she called "Lara Croft" "Lara Crofts" passim. Then again, Ice Honkey's an expert and calls her "Laura Croft", so perhaps this is within an acceptable range of mistaken identity.
 
 
Molly Shortcake
14:39 / 23.11.01
Apologies all. I often forget that my semi-offensive remarks concerning 'hysterical' feminism aren't needed due to the enlightened nature of the 'lith.

However, I do feel that people have been going out of there way for the past ten years to actually reinforce sterotypes they claim don't apply to them. Postmodern consumer society (in the US anyway) is becoming increasingly role oriented (as opposed to goal oriented).

I'll have more to add tomorrow on genuine inquiry on gender and role play.
 
 
belbin
16:45 / 23.11.01
At the risk of throwing in some ill-informed and essentialist comments - what do boys and girls do while they're playing computer games? Now you either do them on your own or with someone else. The way boys socialise is very much - "ha, I can DO THIS! LOOK AT ME!! Can you do it too? Ha, you're crap." Even in friendships. Like going out and riding bikes or playing pool or footie or whatever. As a social activity it's about demonstrating your prowess to your peers. Whilst I have no doubt that girls are equally competitive, it's probably less about 'who can piss the highest?' - which is fundamentally what computer games are about. It's probably more about the deployment of taste and 'cool', no? hence a game aimed at teenage girls is probably very differently oriented in terms of goals.

And would girls (I'm talking about teenagers here rather than adults) be as inclined to staying in all day in front of a computer as boys?
 
  

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