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It is time to learn.

  
  

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Joe
05:29 / 08.01.03
I have noticed a wide range of interests and levels out here and due to the importance of the coming year I believe that those of us who are more experienced and knowledgeable should begin making a series of points of instruction and understanding.
I have taught others before, but I am not perfect, and so request some suggestions as to layout and formulisation before we commence. Let us say a week today (wednesday) is that is astrologically speaking the day of Hermes Timegistus/Mercury/Odin/Thoth.
We should also place up a list of useful links, and books. Such as works of Crowley, MacGregor Mathers, Dr. John Dee, Eliphas Levi, Israel Regardie, etc.
As I have said though this is a very important year so no postings by jokers or those who are not a very high level.
 
 
illmatic
08:26 / 08.01.03
Eh?
 
 
arcboi
09:18 / 08.01.03
I think the writer Steve Wilson summed it up best in Chaos Ritual (whilst discussing attaining the Jovial State in Sahaja Asana):

"Distractions on the way to finding this Asana include pomposity. Many magicians consider this a virtue, or at least in their own case. I, of course, have long since transcended such things. Others are contempt for the 'uninitiated', very common in those miserable magicians who haven't acheived as much as me, the refusual to allow others to advance to their own level, which is impossible in my own case since no one is anywhere near my level, and condescending preachiness, which the fools should stop doing immediately. So there"

Steve suggests the importance of humour and that you should beware of magicians without a sense of humour because without it "progress in the magical arts is impossible". So there.
 
 
ghadis
11:34 / 08.01.03
All the divination work i've undergone with regards to 2003 have produced the following...'drab', 'dull' and 'a bit like the last one'
 
 
000
11:39 / 08.01.03
or those who are not a very high level

Listen, we ARE ALL very high level, it's you outsiders who have to prove your worth if we're going to include you in OUR group.

  
 
Bear
12:05 / 08.01.03
I did a tarot reading and it informed me that Joe was the real deal and I should sell up and live with him and learn greatly, but the reading also stated that I was just a joker and Joe would want nothing to do with me.

Feel free to share though Joe I'd be interested to here what you've got to say.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:07 / 08.01.03
NOOOOOOO! Don't fuck with the high-level dude! He'll turn us all into FROGS!
 
 
Bear
12:22 / 08.01.03
When the Bearman comes your all frogs anyway!!!
 
 
illmatic
12:23 / 08.01.03
ribbit...ribbit..
*shlup - tounge shoots out eats fly*

that'll teach me, eh?
 
 
Rev. Wright
13:27 / 08.01.03
My Level is higher than yours!

  
 
Shortfatdyke
13:36 / 08.01.03
I have loads of learning to do, and I'm open to and would welcome help but only if I'm treated as an equal. Joe - what do you mean? Sharing of knowledge and learning from others is part of what this place is about - not just the magick section. You may mean well but as you can see, you've haven't come across that way. Give more details!
 
 
000
15:18 / 08.01.03
sfd, I agree. If I came across as a "joker," I apologize deeply. But seeing as I'm a shallow person, it's not very deep.

In other words, I also find you potentially interesting, but you may have to step off your pedestal if you wish to attract the kind of attention you're looking for.
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
22:18 / 08.01.03


I think Joe has alot to tell us and is waiting for:

a)someone to guess who he is and pay homage

b) someone to outright ask him what it is he has to say

SO...(with no disrepect to you Joe)

Allow me.

Say it Joe. Give us the message and stop waitng for the right moment or person. I don't know if you are a "new" member and yu may not know what you have stumbled into in this place or if you are an older suot and that is what you mean by "guessing who you are" or...option 3.

Believe you me. We have had our fair share of Buddha's, Christs, Gods &Devils pass through the virtu-doors of Barbelith...So you won't shock us.We promise to consider your message with respect...just Pleeeeeez stop alluding to "who you are" and tell us.

If ya only knew some of the identities of the folk on this board

Waiting...rex
 
 
Mike
23:38 / 08.01.03
If you want to teach someone, teach them what they need to learn, not what you want to teach. (Therefore, any pre-prepared reading lists, lesson plans, favourite subjects, etc, etc should be burned before you begin teaching.) If you can't teach someone what they need to know, when they need to know it - if you even feel the temptation to tell them something to boost your own ego, then you are not ready to teach. Don't. You'll do more harm than good. Its not worth it.
 
 
Joe
04:15 / 09.01.03
I am not trying to gain anything here other than helping others. I ahve come a long way myself and want to share this with others. Evy you have wisdom but are miss interpreting me. I am not being egotistical, there is just so much crap out there and I want to see it done right. I will not teach people what I want them to learn rather what will help them evolve magickaly and spiritually. I am not being arrogant about my level but trying to make a point if you don't want to listen to me you dont have to.
I am out of time now but if anyone (esp Bearman) has specific individual questions/comments for me my e-mail is
joeythemed@archaeologist.com

I am not taking the piss about joking(or joker) just saying humour is a tool to use correctly.
 
 
Joe
04:42 / 09.01.03
I decided I should wirte more so created a spell to decrease my workload and increase my time.
I am saying this partly to make a point. For me magick is a central part of life and is as natural a step as standing or sitting. It is also like this for my highest student, who is now a teacher herself. (If you are wodering she is not a member of Barbelith at present).
SFD I always treat people as equals and am experienced with teaching, in fact my current employment is as an English teacher in a high school. This place has a lot of members and therefore a lot of potential we should use this efficiently.
But it is good to see that there are enough 'aware' people out there that I actually have had some comments.
If you feel I am speaking from a pedestal I apologise deeply, no disrespect Tdneb Chrome.
Ghadis I am surprised you do not know more about the year, you have worked magickally with one of my students- Asa.
rex I have always known of this place magickally and via the internet. I also now who is onbord and the levels of power currently and since it's start.
I have only started posting now due to the importance of the year and things to come. That is why I am also sounding slightly arrogant in what I write. It is time to sort things out. Another reason for my arropgance is I generally work via the astral plane and do most of my communication there.
As to who I am that is far you to 'understand' rather than me to say, but if there is too much confusion or interest I will say (but I don't think it is a good idea as you already think me arrogant).
 
 
illmatic
07:51 / 09.01.03
Joe

To be honest, the reason people were you taking the piss out of you in the posts above is because of the way you come over. In your first or second post to the board you come over all apocalyptic and announce the end of the world is nigh - or at least "the importance of the coming year" - how on Earth do you expect people to react?

Bear in mind, most of us have been interacting on here with each other for a few months at least, and you're a stranger who hasn't taken the time to get to know any of us. There's a lot of humour on here and things are frequently light hearted. Perhaps some of the problem here might be cultural differences if you're writing from China, and you've haven't taken time to get to know the internal culture of this board, I don't know.

And all the stuff - your posts to the divination thread - about changes in the coming year. Well, personally, I'm very sceptical about astral events especially those that are supposed to affect the globe. They normally seem tied to the subjectivity of the person making those pronouncements.

Furthermore, with regards to teaching/learning, things on here are quite open - it's more into information sharing and letting people make there own decisions than recieving formal teachings - people may well take offence at being offered teaching, especially when it's from a supposed "high level".

No disrespect intended, but, from your first few posts, I saw no reason to treat you differently than a random Jehovah's Witness. I am sure you're sincere and serious but this is the way you come over. Like I say, this might be a cultural difference.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
07:56 / 09.01.03
OK then, so to prevent this thread from dissolving into a big scrap and actually have an interesting discussion instead, I think you need to define your position a little more clearly.

I'm not averse to the idea that this year is important and that hard work needs to be done to improve matters along agreeable lines. I would say that elements of that are fairly self evident, but it's the somewhat portentious tone of your post concerning this which has got people riled. Are you prepared to go into the specifics concerning your predictions of general trends for 2003? If not, it may have been better not to mention anything in the first place rather than going for the strategy of dropping hints and revealing information slowly. You will find that people on barbelith have got a bit of a problem with this communication strategy, for various historical reasons, and it won't get you anywhere fast.

Personally I don't really care who you are or how much magical oomph you may carry, but if we're to have an interesting conversation along the lines posited in your first post - then it would be useful to know a little about your magickal background, specialist areas, personal motivations, and so on. Solely to get an idea of where you're coming from with this. There are several people on barbelith who impress me magickally, and they do so through showing not telling. The level of a persons magickal ability is generally self evident from the content of their posts, their personal conduct, and astute observations. So far you haven't really posted enough to give much insight into where your coming from, you've just told everyone that you're in the big league rather than having shown them over a period of time - hence the page of snarky rebuttals. The only way to discern whether you're speaking to someone who knows their magickal onions, or to a 12 year old wannabe playing ascended master, is through the content and quality of their posts. So far we haven't seen enough from you to make that call, therefore you shouldn't be too surprised by the collective cynical response. It's the nature of on-line communication.
 
 
drzener
08:24 / 09.01.03
Why is the next year so important?
Is it because if you remove the zeroes its year 23?
Or why?
 
 
Sebastian
10:43 / 09.01.03
If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.

*Snikt!*
 
 
penitentvandal
10:52 / 09.01.03
(If you will allow me to assemble everyone in this drawin' room, m'sieu...)

Ah suspect, M'sieu 'Joe', that 'Joe' is not your real name at all. Ah suspect that it is a pseudonym, a nom de guerre, that you 'ave assumed for the purposes of deceivin' us. Rather in the same manner as ah 'ave assumed this godawful 'French' accent...

But ah suspect that you 'ave chosen this nom - beginnin' with 'J' as a subtle clue to your real identity. Likewise, ah suspect you 'ave peppered your profile, and your posts, with a series of genuine clues as to your persona, and red 'errings, designed to distract and confuse us.

Let us, as mah 'omie, Lloyd Grossman, 'as been 'eard to observe, look at the evidence...

(and let me rid mahself of this crap accent, while ah am at it...)

1) Your pomposity. Most decent magicians have a sense of humour - Grant Morrison, Pete Carroll, Phil Hine, Aleister Crowley for fuck's sake. Look - we get naked, paint circles on the ground, dance around, worship fucking goats, and speak in languages no-one understands, including us. If we didn't have a sense of humour we'd be nuts. So I suspect this pomposity you've assumed is a deliberate put-on: you're coming over as the 'ascended master' type for a laugh. Whether this laugh is at our expense, or is just you skitting a certain type of 'magus', well, that remains to be seen.

2) China. I think this is a red herring, for some reason. I might be wrong. But when we look at the other factors...

3) Archaeology. There's a fella I know who's an archaeology graduate, and who's probably the type of guy who'd pull a joke like this...

4) English teaching ...my archaeologist friend, like myself, is currently doing a PGCE in English teaching at Newcastle uni. Furthermore, his last placement was at Alnwick High School, made famous by the Harry Potter films, fact fans...So he could, with some legitimacy, claim to be 'working as an English teacher at a high school'...

5)Hair. You say it's brown, mate, but if you're the guy I'm thinking about then it's definitely more blonde. Just accept it.

So, it remains to be asked - are you just JJ having a laugh, or am I completely barking up the wrong tree here?

And if you are JJ, why are you wasting your time shittin' up people on Barbelith when you should be getting on with your assignment?

And why am I, for that matter?
 
 
Bear
11:06 / 09.01.03
Well I've sent "Joe" an e-mail asking to exlpain what he's talking about. He obviously knows people on here since he knew that Ghadis knows Asa...

Grant Morrison?
 
 
penitentvandal
11:15 / 09.01.03
Hmm...Yes, his insider knowledge is interesting. But the 'archaeology graduate/english teacher/shit-'em-up merchant' clues do jibe quite well with my suspect, who may well have followed the link to Barbelith on my site after I told him about it...

However, this would mean someone I only met a few months ago knows people on Barbelith. Small world, eh?

It is, of course, also entirely likely that I am wrong like a motherfucker...A hypothesis that gains credence when one considers that I predicted the Washington Sniper would turn out to be some kind of white, well-educated Tyler Durden wannabe, as opposed to the Muslim Fundamentalist Batman and Robin team...

I'm more Clouseau than Poirot, really.
 
 
illmatic
11:32 / 09.01.03
Closeau had loads more fun ... just watch out for Cato
 
 
000
22:44 / 09.01.03
If you feel I am speaking from a pedestal I apologise deeply, no disrespect Tdneb Chrome.

Hey Joe, just wanted to see how you'd react.

But I certainly can see the reason why you'd start a thread like this, what most of you people refer to as magick, has been trying to pull me in lately.

Put my finger on the pulse, and there is something very odd going on at the mo, IMO.

Joe, certainly PM me, I bet I would be a thirsty recipient of knowledge, although I will never trade my questioning nature.
 
 
Joe
05:15 / 10.01.03
Let me answer a few questions.
The cultural difference point. I am only working in China, I am actually English.
My name really is Joe I thought it would be arrogant to have a title, and misleading to have a nom-de-guerre.
Velvet vandal I think you are wasting time looking at irrelevant information. I will only speak the truth here. I am not JJ, or Grant Morrison. I am not blonde, I am working as an English teacher. Part of my role in this life is as a teacher so I thought it would be a useful experience. And I am an archaeology graduate- focused on ancient (specifically Egyptian) magick.
I did say that I have been watching Barbelith for a long time I just only became a member recently.

So you want some evidence of my knowledge, understanding and power.
I ahve spent many lifetimes focused on the great work. I have studied in this lifetime from the age of ten and intensely from the age of 15. I spent several years mastering traditional witchcraft ( I have always had a lot of respect for Diana strangelly Hekate-despite her general role as a goddes only for women). I then moved on to norse magick. This was for the significance of the runes. They are far simpler than tarot but have great power in both divination and practical magick. Odin didn't hang from Yggdrasil and sacrifice his eye for nothing. After this I went onto intense study of Hermetic and Thelamic magick, using texts from the likes of Regardie, Mather and Therion. I studied many forms of divination- Tarot, astrology, tattwa, chieromancy (palmistry), oneiromancy (dream interpretation), hydromancy, pyromancy, geomancy (Perdurabo, a.k.a. Crowley's favourite), and several others. I have worked with pentagrams andagrams intensely. And most forms of invocation, evokation,exorcism and the like. Ithen learnt asrally with the elemental king Ghob (earth), to recieve extra training, and then with Crowley, and Soloman. (After learning Enochian naturally.) For those who have ability I suggest you speak with them to verify this, Crowley has always been a friend of my family, and he doesn't forget the moonchild. I have also conducted many exorcisms, purifications, rites,rituals and have taught many. I am also the one responsible for defeating the current incarnation of Edward Kelley, and weakening the Goetia.
You see magick is a part of reality, as the Egyptians saw by making Heka- their deity personifying magick-an integral and non-detached force. We must spend all time with parts of ourselves attached to each sphere of the tree of life.
I am not concerned with the physicl anymore and spend most of my time detached working with all spheres and energies.

Now you know a little about me perhaps you can understand me more, but of course feel free to question me more, one must always have questions to seek understanding. Do what thou wilt.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
08:15 / 10.01.03
So you want some evidence of my knowledge, understanding and power.

Not particularly, but some information regarding your interests and areas of research is always useful as a starting point for debate. Otherwise it can be difficult for people to assess where you're coming from. As I've already said in a previous post, I'm not interested in whether you happen to be an ascended master, a knowledgeable adept, or a talented beginner. I'm interested in what you can bring to the debate, and the quality and content of your posts, because this is a discussion forum not a pissing contest. All you've really done so far is talk about yourself, so can you please elaborate on the original purpose of this thread. As I'm sure you're aware, respect is commanded through actions and conduct, not through waving a list of achievements at people.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
08:25 / 10.01.03
Forgive my stunning ignorance Joe, but how does one verify one's astral contacts in order to establish that one is indeed in contact with A.C. or whoever, rather than merely indulging in wish-fulfillment or fantasy?
 
 
illmatic
08:30 / 10.01.03
am not concerned with the physicl anymore and spend most of my time detached working with all spheres and energies.

Personally, Joe, I think the body, the senses and this life are where it's at - so we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
08:49 / 10.01.03
I think my above post reads a bit more confrontational than I had intended. What I'm trying to do here is divert the discussion away from an endless round of "is he/isn't he" wankery and on to something more constructive. Presumably you have joined a discussion forum in order to discuss something, and I'd like to hear what you have to say on the subject of this thread.

What would you personally set out as a curriculum for magickal training, and why? I think that the subject of providing formal magickal training is an interesting question for debate in itself, as a lot of people (particularly from a chaos magick background) rebel quite strongly against the mentor/teacher set up. There are obvious benefits to receiving direct training in a physical discipline such as martial arts or yoga, however when it comes to magickal training people often assume a completely different standpoint. I find this quite interesting. The vast amount of information and support on magick now available via the internet probably has something to do with this, but at the same time, certain aspects of magick are certainly as physical as something like Chi Kung or Yoga, but teachers of western magick are automatically treated with more suspicion.
 
 
Devil's Avocado
09:22 / 10.01.03
*sigh*

There is a simple way to side-step all of this 'is-he-isn't-he' chit chat; don't spend two hours writing an indignant but witty counter rebuttal, just DO WHAT JOE SUGGESTS, go to the Elemental Crossroads on the Astral and talk to those you meet there.

For those like me who aren't particularly clairvoyant on the astral, just still the mind, go looking and make a note of everything, even if it seems like wish fulfilment. Basically let it flow and don't invite the psychic censor, then review all the info when you come back.
 
 
illmatic
09:59 / 10.01.03
Would you be willing to willing to post the inforomation on how to do that here, or PM it to me?

(Holding fire with my personal opinions for the moment)
 
 
ghadis
10:57 / 10.01.03
my initial response to any claims of 'knowledge' etc is one of facetious sarcasm even if i agree with what is being said which is why i was such a hit with the teachers at school...i think this is a healthy attitude...now thats settled down though i'm sure you've got a lot of interesting stuff to discuss and i'm sure other people here agree...
 
 
illmatic
11:27 / 10.01.03
Asa: To respond more fully to your post above - I don't doubt that Joe might have some kind of psychic ability or rapport with you, it seems as if he does to judge from what you've said above and offlist

However, I don't think these phenomona are sufficient to validiate the claims he's making above ie. being in touch with Crowley's shade etc.

An anecdote:
A couple of years back, I got in touch with a new magickal contact who succesfully skryed me, as far as I'm able to judge. Described what I looked like without meeting me. So far, so impressive. Met him in the flesh, seemed like a nice chap. However, it later emerged he was on his local council's list of top 5 of anti-social tenants and used to beat up his girlfriend on a regular basis (it was for her own good, apparently. After all, he knew, he was an adept). He also had some conversations with another friend of mine on the astral, and on another occasion saw him shagging his girlfriend. Both occurences much to my friends suprise.

I'm not accusing Joe of the kind of anti social excesses detailed above, but what I'm saying that some psychic phenomona in themselves do not validate his claims - he doesn't seem to be questioning what he's seeing, and furthermore doesn't seem aware of how he's coming across.

Yesod, allocated to the astral, is also the sphere of glamour and illusion.
 
 
Devil's Avocado
11:52 / 10.01.03
PM'd it to you Cheesemeister
 
  

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