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Underage nudity/porn

 
  

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Taliesyn
07:50 / 17.09.01
Where do you stand on minors posing nude, either for artistic or pornographic reasons?. And what age do you deem 'acceptable' for people to do this?
Also, what is softporn?
 
 
GRIM
11:18 / 17.09.01
16 I reckon, same as the age of consent.
If you can consent to the act, you should be able to consent to being filmed/photographed while performing the act.

Soft porn?
Boobs/flaccid nob but no 'mechanics' appears to be the definition, with some disagreement over 'kebab' shots.
Lots of lingerie, lipstick and potted plants.
 
 
deletia
11:25 / 17.09.01
I'm getting horrible visions of the porn remake of "The Adventure Game".
 
 
Mister Snee
13:00 / 17.09.01
quote:Originally posted by GRIM:
16 I reckon, same as the age of consent.
If you can consent to the act, you should be able to consent to being filmed/photographed while performing the act.


The Canadian and American age of consent is 18. "Pornography" involving 16-year-olds is considered child porn, and illegal as such.

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

(Tasteless pun unintentional )
 
 
GRIM
14:13 / 17.09.01
Damn, they don't let you do anything but drive and shoot do they?
Guess it takes the edge off the sexual frustration
 
 
deletia
14:25 / 17.09.01
Of course, nobody has addressed the other side of this question. At what age is it acceptable to take nude photographs of a person to satisfy an artistic imperative? Or, for that matter, to present a child in a sexualised manner? Natalie Portman in Leon, Jodie Foster in Taxi Driver, the kids from Paedogeddon...are these acceptable because they keep their clothes on, or is it still exploitation?

And even if pornography involving 16-year olds may be legally justifiable, is it prudish of me to find the idea rather icky?
 
 
Suffocate
01:02 / 18.09.01
It all lies in how taboo nakedness is in our society. Technically, any age should be acceptable to take artistic nude photographs of people, even if they contain sexual overtones. Unfortunately, when the person grows up they would likely be embarrassed and feel violated because at a young age they probably had little say in it. How many of you have been embarrassed by bare-ass baby pictures that your parents decide are appropriate to show your new girlfriend/boyfriend?

Is it only the feared reaction by our peers that cause this feeling of violation and embarrassment? Surely if nudity was widely accepted, you wouldn't feel any different to having photos taken of you playing in the backyard, or crying, or even being born.

Of course, if sex weren't taboo either...

Ooer. The controversy begins!

For anyone who has seen the physical results of child rape, you probably wouldn't bother arguing the emotional and mental side of it. But putting violent assault aside, what of "loving" intercourse between adults and children and the photographing of said intercourse? Again, if society didn't view sex with such varied and passionate opinions, would going down to the local playground and picking up a nice six year old for a short or long term relationship be acceptable?

I lost my point about two paragraphs ago and I'm starting to weird myself out with alter-reality images...

*wanders off*
 
 
mondo a-go-go
14:28 / 18.09.01
the problem lies in considerning nudity only in terms of sexuality. no, i'm not embarrassed by pictures of me as a naked child -- up until i started school, i would often run around naked. it was only in school, under the influence of others, that i started to become self-conscious and consider nudity to be "wrong".

it's a context issue. (i'm not going to get into a debate about paedophilia, because i just can't be arsed. noncepatrolgo or whatever, that greenland lot are already pissing me off as it is. better to ignore them, but i'm sure it won't be long before they find this thread... )
 
 
Mister Snee
15:36 / 18.09.01
quote:Originally posted by GRIM:
Damn, they don't let you do anything but drive and shoot do they?
Guess it takes the edge off the sexual frustration


Well, to be fair, 's sort of a weird case up here. You're technically allowed to engage in intercourse at basically any age over here, as long as your partner is within a certain differential from your age, the size of that differential varying depending on age and other such insane stuff... in fact, I don't think I've ever met anybody in Canada who really had a handle on just how our statutory rape/age of consent laws work. The general consensus seems to be that once you turn 18, no more fscking minors, but that, as you can imagine, is more of a guideline than a rule.

Heh.

Um, that is to say, I knew a pregnant 12-year-old once.

I'm really tired of this post!

Oi, look over there!

[runs away]
 
 
Lt. Oi
18:51 / 20.09.01
If they're old enough to crawl they're in the right position...
 
 
000
07:29 / 21.09.01
~ quote: by The Haus of Willow Of course, nobody has addressed the other side of this question. At what age is it acceptable to take nude photographs of a person to satisfy an artistic imperative? Or, for that matter, to present a child in a sexualised manner? Natalie Portman in Leon, Jodie Foster in Taxi Driver, the kids from Paedogeddon...are these acceptable because they keep their clothes on, or is it still exploitation?

At the age that person has a fully understanding for what she/he does, this age would be 18 years and not a day sooner. It’s the age were children can leave the nest, were they have learned enough from their parents and were they can decide to discover the world on their own, before making babies.

Nathalie in Leon can be viewed trough different eyes.
A> She can be seen as a curious little wise nose who did not get to much affection and is left to look after herself. She finds in Leon a father figure that she would like to have. Leon can be seen as a man who lacked affection as a youngster and had no happy home and left his parents house when he was a very young boy and has become hardened because of this. He recognizes this in Nathalie, he never wanted children but yet she reminds him that he could be a father. She wants to be with him, but he does not want that for he thinks she should be at home, for that is what he sees, a home.
B> B> He is just a nice loner who helps and she is a little girl who is alone and is looking for affection( seen by pedophiles as sexual behavior of a child) affection means safety for little children, and for women as well. She can also been seen as a little girl who grew up to fast due to having to take care of herself. And because of all that she has seen she has seen women use their sexual power to get that what they want from men , she shows this behavior.
C> C>Her behavior can also be interpreted as a young girl who discovers what her sexual power is and uses this to allure him into taking her with him. He sees this but feels uncomfortable but is inside attracted to her but because she is a little girl he does not act on that feeling

Or the movie can be seen as just that what it is, even that I must remind you people that the French do like young blossomy girls. See movies like this you can not really attack, they move into the gray dimension, were nothing is what it seems.

Taxi driver, also 2 visions.
A>it’s a sad story that tells us carefully the story of one little girl who is a child prostitute and Robert D. wants to safe her. And the director wants us to see that this is a reality we should know about.
B> it’s a film made especially for pedophiles by pedophiles without any dangers of being caught by the public. Which is my opinion. Now I am not saying that Robert is a pedophile , he loves mature round daughters of the sun. Many actors are used in holywood without them knowing the score of tinsel-town. Many actors commit suicide or get car or plane accidents after they find out what really happens in that town. But not all actors are innocent.

PAEDOGEDDON?
Please tell me what this movie is about I don’t know this movie, who made it which director/studio/actors play in it which year?

quote:And even if pornography involving 16-year olds may be legally justifiable, is it prudish of me to find the idea rather icky?

No its not prudish its NATURAL and you should find this idea icky. See what happens is that the age of consent has been legally lowered over the last 50 years. 21 to 18 to 16 and in countries like Holland they are aiming for 14 years old in the near future. So think who changes the laws, why don’t pedophiles get punished the way the are suppose to? Why is their so much governmental protection towards child abusers?
Because the heads of states churches and media, together with the heads in the corporate world, are the head pedophiles. If you lower the age of consent for kids to be able to have sex legally and have porn made from them, then the age difference between a pedophile and a little child is not big anymore, do you understand?
 
 
000
07:29 / 21.09.01
quote: by Suffocate
For anyone who has seen the physical results of child rape, you probably wouldn't bother arguing the emotional and mental side of it. But putting violent assault aside, what of "loving" intercourse between adults and children and the photographing of said intercourse? Again, if society didn't view sex with such varied and passionate opinions, would going down to the local playground and picking up a nice six year old for a short or long term relationship be acceptable?


NO AND NO! Are you absolutely out of your senses? How dear you even suggest such a thing? You say its because of the taboo on sex that people react to this in certain ways. That if there would be no taboo this would not be such a big problem, are you in need of a bullet? Sex is all over the place, TV commercials, soaps, reality shows, Movies, video games, Manga films, music video, posters for parties and normal magazines. Sex is a taboo? You said? if you indeed live in Australia then please hang yourself.
Where is it again that you children of the lowest and most worst criminals of the white world were send to? Australia. What was absolute normal for these people to do fuck little children, beat and torture the indigenous people, of whom you stole the land from.
Putting babies in the grounds with only their heads sticking out, raping the mothers while they tied the beheaded heads of their husbands around the necks of the women/mothers necks forcing her to look while you white scum of the western world raped her and used the heads of these babies as soccer balls.
What happens all the time and even openly in Australia? Incest! Young kids get raped pedophile clubs of the highest order, women battered and raped and no help what so ever. Your government/England allows pedophile clubs. They alienate the mother from her baby by telling her that formula is even better, they make you addicted to pigs meat, stuff you with all that is bad for you( 60% of Australians are to fat), and NestlĂ© Is your God. And of course if you look what the white race stands for and how they multiplied, than no wonder that there are so many pedophiles and sick rapist in that country that you stole from the people of the original plan. By being racist they could fuck their own, and had a valid excuse to do so, “We whites must remain a pure race”. Well by now you whites belong to the sickest people in the world, by committing incest you became the weakest link in the chain of life, our DNA.
You live in a country were you should have never been born in.

The controversy begins; is this what you think or hoped for?

Ore are you saying these things because you feel attracted to young kids?
Are you seeking a way to justify your preference?
Or are you checking the reaction of the people out in order to be able to use them when you get caught? Or to be able to find others, just like you.
Or are you saying this because you want ‘see’ how people react.
I actually don’t give a fxxx if you feel assaulted, if you would be near me saying this you would have to be able to justify this writing on your behalf in such ways and if not to my liking you would be one dead rabbit by now!

[ 21-09-2001: Message edited by: Laila ]
 
 
000
07:29 / 21.09.01
quote: Soapy Titwank i'm not going to get into a debate about paedophilia, because i just can't be arsed. noncepatrolgo or whatever, that greenland lot are already pissing me off as it is.

I AM glad to be of service, cheers!
 
 
000
10:00 / 21.09.01
quote:by OiIf they're old enough to crawl they're in the right position...
As you invited me with this line and maybe even bet with somebody that I would react, I feel obliged to react.
Were you abused as a little kid? If so than you need to realize that what happen to you as a little kid has nothing to do with who you are today. This has nothing to do with being abused as a kid but all to do with your DNA.
Are you sexually attracted to children? If yes, Kill yourself.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
13:06 / 21.09.01
Laila, from what I know of Oi (and I even saw him around youngsters one time!), I strongly suspect he's taking the piss..
 
 
Mister Snee
13:06 / 21.09.01
Methinks the lady doth protest too much?

Laila, are your angry feelings towards pedophiles and other lovers of young children coming from some deep-seated resentment from your youth? When you accuse Barbelithers of supporting pedophilia or being immoral, or tell them to kill themselves, perhaps what you really mean is...

"I HATE YOU, DADDY!"

... beh, fsck it. It's been done.

Just go away, roight?

Roight.
 
 
CRIMSONCHAINS
13:42 / 21.09.01
Laila:

I'm thinking that your speaking on myth rather then fact and logical thinking. How is the idea of love between an adult and child inconsievable to you? Sex has always supposed to be an expression of love and yet you see it as an expression of violence. Just because an individual is a child, doesn't mean that he/she can't think for themselves and even love another. Ofcourse there is always the instance in which the feelings lead to rape, but then there's always the instence in which your kind lead to murder. There are even established societies on the net that contain individuals that believe in having relationships with children. You should red up and have an informed opinion. you can start withthis.


As for pictures and the like:

Legaly there is no age for concent reguarding nude pictures as long as there is no sexual content and the individual is not touching or making reference to his/her genitals. I'm not sure what to make of that but I do know that it is possible for a child to make a decision for his or herself. Maybe he child would regret the decision later in life but then how many of you would now back up ever decision you made a year ago?
 
 
autopilot disengaged
14:16 / 21.09.01
xavion: fuck off, eh?

why? 'cause you're either a)laila in some laila-baiting fictionsuit, b)an established 'lither looking to do the same thing for yr own amusement, or c)the genuine article.

any which way, it's not funny.

close yr mouth on the way out.
 
 
CRIMSONCHAINS
15:10 / 21.09.01
autopilot disengaged:

You seem to be a fan of multiple choice, as that I will accomedate your little fetish

a)Who the hell are you now then eh?
b)You may want to ge beyond "I hate you", maybe if you explain your self a little more people will understand you. In the words of my mother when I was about 3, "use words, don't cry".
c)"Close your mouth on the way out", Ha ha ha, that's good, I think I may steal that and call it my own.
 
 
deletia
15:15 / 21.09.01
Certainly sounds oddly familiar...
 
 
Ganesh
15:32 / 21.09.01
Whoops, there goes another rubber room plant.
 
 
Frances Farmer
15:39 / 21.09.01
I know this is terribly out of context, but I have to ask... Mister Snee - Are you a UNIX administrator? That comment sounded dangerously near another one I've heard - "Be careful : Too much grep'ing can always lead to fsck'ing."

Just had to ask.
 
 
Mister Snee
15:48 / 21.09.01
I'm actually pleased at having avoided using "grep" as a verb on the board yet.

(Read: Yes. )

[ 21-09-2001: Message edited by: Mister Snee ]
 
 
Mister Snee
15:51 / 21.09.01
And for that, I apologize.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:55 / 22.09.01
PAEDOGGEDON?
This was a satirical TV show in the UK, made byt the Godlike Chris Morris, attacking society & the media's taste for a good old-fashioned witch-hunt. It received a record number of complaints, is still getting widespread press coverage now, two months after it was shown, and had its point totally missed by vast swathes of the British public (probably the same demographic to those who last year burnt down a paediatrician's house 'cos they were too dumb to understand the difference.)
I would say it's a must-see, but it's kind of unlikely to ever be shown again.
 
 
Suffocate
23:26 / 23.09.01
quote:Originally posted by Laila:
[QB]

NO AND NO! Are you absolutely out of your senses? How dear you even suggest such a thing?



Etc etc, and other insulting, knee-jerk remarks...

Thank you for giving me a good ol' laugh, Laila. I would suggest however, that if you don't appreciate open debate and can't handle detached viewpoints without taking things personally OR making things personal, remove yourself from Barbelith or you'll make some powerful enemies pretty darn quickly

On the other hand, you're pretty amusing to have around
 
 
Taliesyn
03:10 / 24.09.01
Laila:
You sound very angry and I think this makes you bias. "18 and not a day older" do you really think that when a person turns 18 they suddenly become all wise and are 'mature' enough to make their own decisions?
I'm not only talking about sex/porn/etc but voting as well, I am only 17 so I dont have a say in who will lead my country but it will affect me for the next few years of my life... But back to my point, I live in Australia I dont eat Pork or any animals, nor do I have knowledge of rape being as rampant as you make claim, you write as if all aust children are being violated. Maybe you should think about what you write before you accuse a whole nation/world of being wrong/sinful whatever.
I lost my point...
 
 
nul
03:19 / 24.09.01
Are you sexually attracted to children? If yes, Kill yourself.

A very humane policy for dealing with people who suffer from mental illness, I must say. People who are sexual attracted to animals should also be dealt with in a similiar manner, but perhaps gential mutilation will serve as a sufficent reminder for those types.

I'm glad that you had the strength of will to take your political position into this public forum so that everyone can see just how the average person feels we should deal with sexual deviancy.

Treatment and reform be damned! Let's kill 'em all!

 
 
Taliesyn
05:00 / 24.09.01
I agreee...
I think mass genocide of the so-called disturbed people is the way to go, and while were at it I think we should kill off the severely obese and the midgets...
Those damn midgets...
Sarcasm???
... ...
 
 
000
06:45 / 24.09.01
XAVION
I am not fighting those who are innocent from harming others, I am fighting those who hurt our children, this is the difference, if you can dwell in the realms of the forbidden and still do nothing wrong than so be it.

A little bedtime story:

“Once upon a time there was a Genie , he was a great magician, his powers were infinite. He was the great magus, who created our universe. He was the creator of all, the universe was his kingdom, he was God. He loved nice things, he loved peaceful things and his children were the stars. He created many planets, as breading grounds for this purpose. The last final planet, he created was, our earth. One day he was bored and he decided to play the game planet earth. He wanted to be able to live on one of his planets, but as he was of the spirit world he could not, so he decided to make some humans according to his own image and his reflection. Man and Woman. His sister helped him, for she was his reflection.

Living on the wet planet earth, which was called Atlantis at one time, was not possible, without the planet sun and moon, his 2 favourite planets. Dark and bright, day and night. The planet earth was officially one big sea.

He was a playful man ,so his way of talking was in riddles and rimes and he was poetic as well. So he called his daughter La ( means women) and his son Ra (means man). As he was infinite himself his children could not ever become gods in his kingdom( for there could only be 1) they were the kings children without a kingdom. As he loved his children dearly, he gave them the earth were he created 2 kingdoms, 1 for each of them, he created 2 gardens were they could reign according to their wishes and he gave them each a 1000 friends, so in the garden of La, you had La and her 1000 friends and together with her there were 1001 La Y La ‘s and the same amount for Ra as well.

They had brown skin and black hair. The children of the sun and the children of the moon, sister sun and brother moon.

In this way they both would have their own kingdom and do as they pleased. These gardens were gardens of love, Lala’s who loved eachother (lesbians), and Rara’s who loved eachother ( gays). But for the sake of reproduction, he also put one factor in their genes, the bi-factor. And he told them, that every 3 months, they could get together, if they did not, than they would sees to exist and their Kingdom would end. So he gave them these gardens and said “Go my children, go and mingle, you can reap the winds, plant your seeds, But when you see snow that means NO!” For that was the dark and dangerous side of the planet earth and they were not to be more than so many.”

So you see dear Xavion, I find it normal for men to love eachother and for women to love eachother and I find it normal that most women are bi-sexual, in fact exclusive hetero sexuality for women is almost unnatural. Its normal that men like to watch women, and have sex with more than one women, after all they had to wait 3 months, before they could get close them. So the only thing they could, do was hide behind the bushes and watch all these lovely LaLa’s play with eachother . Men loving men, yes. Older men loving younger men, yes. Men loving young boys( age 15 or so) who love them back, nothing wrong. Men loving children yes, but men having sex with little children, NO! Men having sex with toddlers, NO! Men having sex with babies , NO!

You can not get inside and when you copy just even some words you bring back to your own computer a little bug, so how normal was it again? And you my dear are a pedophile or a ABSOLUTE IDIOT. But as I have been fighting years against sickos like you, I can sit back and look what the coming time will show us. And I for once can sit back and relax, somebody else is taking it over and if you or your friends hurt any children , you will end up in my backyard and I will fry your asses. BIG SMILE Y
 
 
000
06:45 / 24.09.01
quote:by SILENCE
You sound very angry


My anger disappeared on 911.

quote:do you really think that when a person turns 18 they suddenly become all wise and are 'mature' enough to make their own decisions?

This depends completely on your soul. Some are just young kids, who fool around no worries and the only thing they want to do is having fun. Some are already greedy and completely selfish. But others are loners who think a lot and know what is good for them or not. So yes, at 18 you lack experience, but that does not mean you lack insight.

quote:I'm not only talking about sex/porn/etc but voting as well,

And if you want to be able to have a say in your future, then 18 should be the age were you can decide for yourselves. You are allowed to work, you can have sex, you can live on your own, but yet you can not vote, don’t you think that is a little strange?

quote: I am only 17 so I dont have a say in who will lead my country but it will affect me for the next few years of my life..

See, you are thinking and you show insight, you care for nature, so why shouldn’t you be allowed to vote?

. quote:But back to my point, I live in Australia I dont eat Pork or any animals, nor do I have knowledge of rape being as rampant as you make claim, you write as if all aust children are being violated.

The day will come , and this day is not that far away anymore, were you will discover many bad things about your government, the gates of your history will be opened, and what you will see will make you sick. Your country belongs to one of the worst countries in the world, when it comes to control, and freedom for its people especially the indigenous people. Do you think that the ones who did all these wrong things forgot to spread their seeds? Of course not and the sad part is that they are the ones who sit in your government and who control your media.
Your TV channels, newspapers, politics and science world is being controlled by the same families. And that means only a few.

quote: Maybe you should think about what you write before you accuse a whole nation/world of being wrong/sinful whatever.

Here we have generations between, your lack of experience, knowledge, and insight. The world unknown to you is the world known to me. The faces you don’t ever see are the faces I see daily. The difference between you and I, is that I was born wide awake. But I understand your thoughts.
 
 
Bear
10:12 / 24.09.01
PAEDOGGEDON - did anyone actually enjoy the show - it got alot of attention but I just didn't find it funny, maybe its just me.. I much prefered the earlier stuff...

Hi by the way - a newbie here... but its nice to see a message board where people aren't just calling each other gay....

bear
 
 
Ganesh
10:20 / 24.09.01
You didn't enjoy it, Chaosbear? Are you gay or what?!



I actually did find it funny, but it was a hand-over-the-mouth 'oh my god I can't believe he just said that' kind of 'funny'. Morris's stuff, if it has any aim at all, aims to hit the line where shock/taboo shades into uneasy black humour. I agree that other 'Brass Eye's have been more laugh-out-loud funny but to compare differently 'themed' programmes is perhaps to miss the point a little.

Anyway, welcome to Barbelith. Don't let the Greenlanders bite.
 
 
Ganesh
10:22 / 24.09.01
[off-topic] And if you really are a 'bear' in the gay sense, feel free to start a thread about it elsewhere... [/off-topic]
 
 
The Sinister Haiku Bureau
11:16 / 24.09.01
Congratulations Laila!You're right back on form.

I will NEVER
EVER
watch teletubbies in the same light again.

 
  

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