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Look, it's the Hulk

 
  

Page: 12(3)

 
 
videodrome
07:57 / 21.07.03
Got's it. And I've read the review you mentioned, which is, indeed, shit. Not so much because it doesn't like the film as for an utter lack of point of view.

[treadrot]
I'm a little too used to people here in the American south (my lovely new adopted home) actally using the term and meaning it, which chaps me every time. Here, 'hater' is a term simply derived from 'racist', and as such is an unassailable and completely damning negation that is nonetheless acceptable in casual conversation.
[/threadrot]

This is one I'll be curious to revisit in a couple years. I saw it before any reviews were out in the states, so my experience was pretty unbiased, and I really didn't like it. But perhaps I'll have more fun with the absurdity another time...
 
 
illmatic
10:03 / 21.07.03
Videodrome - a couple of people drifting into work this morning are also saying they didn't like it, though I also have one rave review. The "haterz" (joke!!) are saying they found it a bit boring, so mixed reviews all round then. I think it might be because they didn't get all the left-field comic geek stuff which I really got off on. My tastes tend towards the mondo bizzro anyway, which I know isn't everyone else's cup of tea. I might have been a bit bored if I was a kid going to see it, I suppose.

BTW, off topic - anyone know what the next big superhero adaption is going to be?
 
 
Char Aina
11:22 / 21.07.03
sorta spoily?



At one point Josh Lucas' grenade explodes behind him, throwing him towards the camera, where he freeze frames, outlined in black, only to be consumed by flames a second later.


i thought he was framed by white, like he was in a comic book panel, keeping the whole manic stylisation thing going.


i loved that bit, incidentally. perhaps i am just the kind of kid it was aimed at.


and my inner thirteen year old just LOVED it when the hulk suplexed the helicopter.
 
 
Seth
19:38 / 21.07.03
Just saw it again, left the cinema about an hour ago. Further observations:

- The movie begins with what looks like the creation of the Universe, which almost immediately split screens into a living cell or microbe. The impression is that of as above, so below: the macrocosm being reflected in the microcosm. This seems played out in spades in the final battle between Bruce and David, as they're framed in the clouds like paintings of warring Greek gods, their psychology having effected their physical reality, in David's case threatening the fabric of reality itself. Zeus vs Hercules...?

- There's a vast number of dream sequences, and these are played out intriguingly with the flashback material. Remember the scene where Bruce picks up the photograph? It becomes animated as he remembers his relationship with Betty (the only time the relationship is shown in the movie), which then proceeds to detail her dream, which is another flashback merged with dream material. A flashback within a dream within a flashback, layers of reality overlapping. Later Bruce's memory is restored while General Ross relates what happened to Betty, the internal discovery of the former juxtaposed against the dialogue revelation as the latter. The film seems to be a commentary on the way in which memory, psyche and fantasy dovetail with reality. The Hulk appears several times in Bruce's mind before his first transformation.

- The editing techniques have a really weird hypnotic effect. It's as if Ang Lee has deliberately set out to destroy the medium so that the content gets lodged in the unconscious. Your mind is so occupied trying to grapple with a forth wall that's constantly splitting and morphing, making you dissociate then reassociate with the material - it's as if the style not only apes a comic book format but also the mental processes of the protagonist.

There seems to be a bottomless pit of occult reference and psychological mindfuckery at the heart of this movie. The images of the empty desert consuming its own image, the sub bass green pulse of the gamma bomb framed against the blackness, the soundtrack that reinforces the shamanic subtext contained within the shots of moss, logs and rocks - the spirit of the land. I can't wait for the DVD release.
 
 
A Bigger Boat
19:53 / 21.07.03
Anyone else who loved this film been feeling angrier lately?

When I first saw this with Set about a week ago some guy in the audience started chanelling the film there and then.

Ask Set about it, he'll tell it better.
 
 
Seth
20:54 / 21.07.03
Yeah, that was shafted. This huge bloke stood up and started roaring at the kids behind them, calling them *cockheads* and ordering the cinema staff (who were all watching the movie on the back row) to exclude them from the screening. He just fucking flipped.

This time round my mate and I might have hallucinated a military unit undergoing training near the Ocean Village UGC car park. Oh, that and the fact that my mate seemed to look identical to the big ol green guy after we we left the cinema...
 
 
jeff
20:12 / 22.07.03
Humble apologies but I can destroy your dream.

There's an army cadet force (mayhap RAF) that marches around in that car park under the bridge and generally gets in the way when I'm on my runs. Manners of an Ox and everything. Sorry!
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
19:02 / 24.07.03
Dear god. Words fucking fail me... so very, very bad.

SPOILERS...














The story is a hopeless mish-mash of badly paced rubbish. We aren't told anything which might help make things make sense - what does Talbot actually do? He's military, and apparently working for Ross, so there's a chain of command thing, supposedly. Yet he's free to go over his head, subtly threaten his daughter, attack a man under military arrest... which, by the way, is clearly only done to bring us another 'getting angry' transformation, just as hackneyed as any of the contrived stimuli from the TV series. He's also the only person seen to even get slightly hurt by the Hulk (probably because he's so over-the-top scummy) - helicopters and tanks are Hulk-handled, hit by missiles, collide in mid air, and none explode, or are seen to hurt their occupants. In one scene a tank is thrown half a mile away in the desert, only for us to see the driver get out, completely unscathed. Cars are tossed aside and crushed, with no physical injury to the passengers. Arse.

Set's right in that Lee's traditional deft handling of character, relationships and drama are absent from this movie. It doesn't help that the script is so ball-droppingly atrocious... cliche upon cliche is ham-fistedly kicked out through clunky, shitty dialogue that you've forgotten seconds later (which is probably a blessing). Following the 'incident' when he's a kid, Banner is brought up by foster parents. We aren't told this until later, and the story's so badly told that we don't even notice that the name on his office door isn't Banner until it's dropped in over an hour in that he's using the foster parents' name 'Crenzler'... we just think his mum's dyed her hair blonde. The 'massive psychic trauma' that results in the repressed memories... he sees his father accidentally stab his mother. Everyone I sat with thought that was such a damp squib that they might as well not have bothered. Couldn't they have come up with something a bit more potent?

The ending is appalling. His father gains 'absorbing man' powers through repeating some of the effect that brought out the Hulk in Bruce. Why? No reason. Then the army, after spending billions trying to kill the Hulk with missiles, bombs, helicopters and tanks (some of which assaults take place in the middle of San Fransicso) and after setting out their stall in the 'he has to die - he's just too damned dangerous' field, decide to do nothing when, as Banner, he's recaptured - except leave him alone in a warehouse with his psychotic father, and watch the guy hype his 'tortured' son into a Hulk-frenzy again. Why not just put a bullet in Banner's head when he's normal again? No reason is given. Not even a shit one. Nothing.

Why is David Banner allowed to vanish after being released from prison? What was he arrested for in the first place? For setting off the explosion, or for killing his wife? Who would allow him within ten miles of a research facility again, let alone give him a job? Where does he get all his science stuff from? Lee doesn't care, and seems perfectly happy to continually insult our intelligence over and over again. And, again, the dialogue is so bad that almost none of Nick Nolte's speeches actually make any sense, especially the big Shakespearean rant at the end, where he appears to be spewing random words at no one.

There's a lot more shit things to say about this film, but it's really not worth the time to remember them. There are some noteworthy things - the Hulk looks much better than in any of the trailers, and most of the desert fight scenes are a joy to watch, if dumb as fuck (he catches a missile, bites it in half, spits it at a helicopter and it still goes off. Looks cool, but is utterly stoopid. Oh, and it doesn't remotely damage the 'copter. Arse again). He jumps and runs real gooood. And the performances are excellent, without exception - no one has anything to work with, and yet still all the principal cast come out of it with dignity.

But that's it. One of the worst films I've ever seen on the big screen. And the fact that I was so wildly wrong about it is odd in itself - not because it was good against my expectations, but because all the 'Ang Lee' staples that I was relying on as a given - bound to be amazing, the plot, script, drama, pacing, narrative, characters, not evne worth wondering about - were absent or crap, while the dumb action scenes, while few and far between, were eye-catching and rather good.

Oh, and the Hulk dogs... Nigel Christ, what a shit idea, and poorly executed, at that. What a waste of time and money.
 
 
The Strobe
20:02 / 24.07.03
I have no shame. I really, really liked Hulk. Even if the bit with the frog exploding was icky.

I loved the editing, even the death of Talbot - that in particular works because we haven't had a showy splitscreen for a while and BAM there's the freezeframe. Also, I loved the shots where the camera was panning over a vast montage of freezeframes. That's cool.

No-one's (as far as I remember) mentioned the credits, which I thought were superb - everything set said about creation of life, macro and micro, plus fantastic use of typography et al. I also really liked the CGI - yes, a lot of the movie is in the dark so you don't notice it, but the shot of Hulk in the dark amongst the trees was brilliant. The only real beef I have is the hulk dogs, which were a bit crap.

Nolte was a bit OTT, and Bana a bit bland, but Connelly hit the nail on the head actingwise; scriptwise, everyone did the best of a bad bunch. That said, easily the best exchange by far:
"You found me"
"It wasn't hard"
"Yes it was"

This being Ang Lee's thing about identity: what Bruce means by me is human-Bruce; what David means by 'my son' is the Hulk. Bruce just needs to be found amongst all the green cells.

It's not a film young people will like, really, or at least, not one the general population would enjoy; I liked it because I was a strange kind of teenager, and a film about the geeky human being with difficult forming emotional bonds letting all his rage out means a lot to me.

I think the Hulk CGI worked well - OK, so it's dumb and fantastic, but isn't that the point? The best shots were of him when he wasn't angry; just looking like a petulant toddler or forlorn teenager who's just snapped at his girlfriend; when he puts Betty on the car, that's really impressive CGI - it's not the eyes or mouth, it's the muscles: forehead, cheeks, chin, that allow the cgi greenie to emote. Brilliant.

Also, all the shots of the sixties, and desert base town were great - slightly Clowes, but big flashbacks to Watchmen and the complex where Osterman loses his humanity - the destroyed buildings later reminding me of the stuff on Mars. Oh, and bigtime Akira inspiration in the base, diagonal lift as most obvious remark.

And finally: what self-respecting cute young scientist, the Connelly or nay, calls themselves Betty in this day and age, eh? That's all a bit loose and disconnected, but I enjoyed it a lot. And it was nothing like what I'd expected to see.
 
 
deja_vroom
12:50 / 25.07.03
Have to say it: Hated the goddamn thing.


SPOILERS


1) Rage : Hulk - Not quite so. What does The Hulk do in the movie that makes the audience realise they're seeing a power-house of untamable fury? Nothing. The Hulk is just a big green man fighting half-heartedly for his life. He tosses a sofa, knocks a few tanks (looking strangely calm and restrained in the sequence, *walking* from target to target, understandably looking confused, but not showing any rage, any muscle-flexing, ven-popping, holy-shit-now-I'm-mad goddam fury. No. He paces undecided, leaps and looks around, delicately and dexterously grabing a missile on flight, biting and mischievoulsy spitting its head back at the shooter. The screen didn't shake with Hulks roars, because, well, he was alarmingly mute for the entire movie. How are we supposed to buy the fact that The Hulk is scary?

Being supposed to represent the repressed urges of man, his actions are alarmingly non-consequential. Nobody dies in those helicopters, like if we were watching a shitty Rambo cartoon from the eighties. Everything feels restrained and hesitant. I was expecting more destruction, mayhem and chaos. I was given none. The fight was pretty unbalanced from the start, with those stupid tanks and choppers... how do you expect to make a fight sequence last for long enough, or how you make it interesting, when you put such unbalanced contenders at each end of it?
This movie didn't manage to grab my attention, didn't make me worry or care about the characters, it was ridiculous in its usage of... those dogs (boy were they crap).

The Hulk was the most boring animated character i've seen in a long time. He could have done much, much, much, much more - if only those hacks who wrote it had any clue of what they were doing.


1) Hulk : Id? - They tried to make an "adult" movie of a stupid comic book character, forgetting that you cannot tackle complex concepts if you're an over-adulated idiot whose cheesy imagetic pantheon is constantly confused with high art and sensibility by the post-modern thrash gourmands. "Yes, because this material is unusable, it's too childish and shallow. Let's, let's make people realize - in the less subtle manner possible - that the Hulk is a metaphore for the repressed anger in every one of us, and who cares if we maim and kill any excitement in the plot that might have been possible to create? Yes, let's make dream sequences and alegories (as the mirror sequence) to hammer into people's heads the message that we're too clever to make an interesting and exciting story about a comic book character, and that we're using this material instead to convey a much deeper and important message, completely forgetting to put any fun - the smart or the dumb kind - in it.

3)The plot? - Full of holes. Boring, detached, seemed like something written in a hurry, with explanatorial sequences dragging for too long, and the only interesting bits not being worth the wait because they were majorly shot in the dark (I didn't understand or care for what happened in the end, couldn't even figure out what was going on, it was so dark and blurry. The villain was a dark blot somewhere on the screen. And the Hulk won the fight by using his brains. WTF??).

Eric Bana is mostly made of processed cheese.


Some good points: Thank God Jennifer Connely got some interesting lines: "What exists beyond your limits, sir, is other people". Ace.
Nolte was good also, but he had so little to work with, those dogs always accompanying him...
To me, the only moment where the story got more tangible, and dealt with in a sensible, tension-building, attention-grabbing manner, was when young Bruce witnessed his mother's demise. This is for you people that might think I'm only doin' some hatin' - I'm not. That scene was fucked up, man, and in a very good way! Father trying to stab his own son - wait, it gets even better - in an act of mercy!, fuck, just describing the scene already makes you imagination tingle with excitement: the developments! the resolution!. And then it even gets better and fucked-upper - The man trips and kills his wife in front of his son. The wife dies in the desert, her arm trying to grab something in the distance as the nuclear mushroom rises in the horizon. How much did this sequence last? Not enough, I tell you.
Oh, and there's another good thing that they managed to accomplish, but it was unintentional: If the Hulk was used to represent something else, the movie was successful in alegorically representing its subject: Just like The Hulk itself, this film meandered, it seemed to be operating under a heavy dose of sedatives, it had no clue of what was going on and of where it should be going next, and lastly, just like The Hulk, it would be better for everybody if it just never got unleashed.
 
 
videodrome
13:27 / 25.07.03
No-one's (as far as I remember) mentioned the credits, which I thought were superb

And wasn't one of the first shots the CGI trip down DNA/neural pathways that is now the de facto superhero film opening, ever since X-Men nicked it from Fight Club?
 
 
The Strobe
13:33 / 25.07.03
Hmn...

X-Men looked VERY ripped off from Fight Club.

This looked different - more fluid, biological, and they were trying to do the whole big bang/creation thing. Yes, I see where you're coming from, but I think the criticism is far more valid of X-Men than it is of Hulk.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
02:07 / 26.07.03
I thought the "You found me" set up to be utterly lame. What, all it takes is a cute mother-look-alike (something that they obviously meant to show more of, but seemed to completely ignore - anyone else notice that Betty Ross is a dead ringer for Banner's dead mother? Probably, but they ignored it, naturally) giving him a hug for him to turn back into a big-shorted Australian comedian...

Dialogue on a par with Attack Of The Clones "I hate sand. It's horrible and rough. Not like you, you're sexy"...
 
 
The Strobe
06:34 / 26.07.03
God, the mother/girlfriend deadringer thing was a bit irritating and highly obvious. They could have just gone the Spider influenced extra mile and had them both played by Connelly? OK, so the film had weakspots, but I still really, really liked it, and not just because it was fun; there was this funny something-else to it that set seems to be seeing amongst the mishmash.
 
 
Seth
08:13 / 26.07.03
I'm gonna buy you the DVD, Jack. For Christmas, if it's out.
 
 
cusm
17:37 / 12.11.03
Not to stir bad memories better left forgotten, but this review from pointlesswasteoftime.com is about the funniest thing I've read in a long time. Dr. Oxford is the man.
 
 
Professor Silly
17:51 / 12.11.03
I didn't bother to see this in the theater, and I recently saw the DVD. I expected disappointment and was pleasantly surprised. I would say it's a great film by any means, but what really surprised me was the level of emotion I got from a purely CGI character. The Hulk seemed like a giant, really pissed-off kid. I found myself giggling through most of the scenes of destruction...and in a good way. I won't bother buying the DVD...but I'd be willing to watch it again sometime.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
19:39 / 11.05.04
Yeah, I just caught this on Einer Cable recently and while I found little to enjoy in the story or the technique, it was incredible to see a real Hulk really beat the living shit out of every surface in his path. When it comes down to it, that's what I enjoy most about all these comic movies (probably the only thing I enjoy). Seeing certain things I've had in my head all my life right there in front of me, perfectly rendered. Nearly all of the stories have been shit, nearly all of the films have been hackedly produced, but there are those moments, and I think out of all of them, Hulk had the most.

It wasn't about how real Hulk looked, but how perfectly they created his interactions. The way he walked down that hallway, and punched that freakin' helicopter. It's like they filled in every panel gutter in every Hulk comic ever. I could watch the Hulk scenes a million times.
 
 
Seth
07:40 / 12.05.04
Just saw this again last night, and it does get a lot better with repeated viewings. I love Nolte's insane rants!
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:42 / 12.05.04
Before Peter David took over The Hulk was seen as Marvel's punishment book, where they forced you to do it and I don't think many people had much fun with it. I think it's a difficult character to write because you can't really have him being monstrous if you aren't willing to have him do monstrous things. That said I thought the film was a bland okay, but I hope they let the Hulk speak if they do any more films, I want a big "Hulk smash!" or "Hulk is strongest one there is!"
 
 
The Falcon
13:05 / 12.05.04
Or 'Hulk Straight!'?

No.

That would be shit.

I really liked the way this was shot, but the script was pish.
 
 
Triplets
22:02 / 12.05.04
"Puny human..."
 
 
Seth
06:54 / 13.05.04
"Take it all!"
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
14:23 / 13.05.04
Another big problem is that there are multiple versions of the Hulk.

In the original series Hulk is a brutal sketchy monster who talks like a thug and is up to no good. In the 70's he was changed to a kind of gentle giant who said Hulk Smash a lot and had feathered hair.

Personally I think the stronger choice is the monster, but Holywood being what it is, ofcourse they chose the brute.

But I think it worked quite well for a difficult comic movie. They confronted the main theme of the book which is not facing your internal emotions... and breaking lots of military equipment in the desert.

And I honestly don't know what anyone who didn't like it was looking for aside from the dull 70's TV show (and fair enough there, it's by far the most well-known version of the character). But this was a very well done Hulk movie, I'm just not sure there was an audience or a call for the film that was made. It deals wth some heavy topics such as abuse and emotional rage and isolationism (with I admit some script problems, but it is a very ambitious film so I forgive it)... when most people probably just wanted to see the Hulk break things.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:58 / 13.06.06
Avi Arad recently said the 2nd Hulk film will be a 'do-over.' He didn't clarify what that meant, but the implication might be that it won't really acknowledge the first film. I have a feeling this film is at least 3 years away anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter much. But they are still making another Hulk film.
 
 
Hieronymus
19:32 / 05.07.06
Dead Megatron mentioned in the Transformers thread how much he dug the Hulk movie and so I thought I'd bump this thread and add this little snippet on the redux planned. Which sounds light years better than the Ang Lee flick.

Meanwhile, "X3" scribe Zak Penn told The X Verse that some of the ideas for the new film will be lifted from a draft he did in 1996 - "It's not like we're just going back to it. Just keeping some ideas and sequences and the James Cameron inspired tone that I was shooting. I thought the tone of the TV series was perfect, and something the first movie could have used. I really wanted to see Bruce on the run, keeping his secret from people, constantly afraid of transforming. You will see all that in Hulk 2, and no poodles".
 
 
Thorn Davis
07:44 / 06.07.06

I actually really love the first Hulk film. I was just having a crack in the Transformers thread about executive producers, and Hulk was the first film that popped into my head.

Hulk's one of those movies where I almost can't understand why people hate it so much. It avoided so many hokey action cliches and walked a totally seperate path to all other superhero films. I love the acting, and the cinematography - the movie's just incredible to look at. The music's great. The editing - I thought - was exhilirating. And - you know - people complain about the pacing but I don't see that as a problem at all. The first ten minutes or so gives you an incredible amount of back story mostly - cleverly - without a single line of dialogue. And the way, after the massive battle out of the base, into the desert and through San Francisco the movie pares everything all the way down to just two actors face to face against a plain black background, like the most basic theatre set imaginable was fantastic. It worked brilliantly for me.
 
 
CameronStewart
14:07 / 06.07.06
What's funny is, I can agree with a lot of what you just said, but I still thought the movie was utterly tedious.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
14:25 / 06.07.06
Film needed talking Hulk. Not-talking Hulk just boring. If Hulk doesn't get to say "Hulk smash!" then what's the point?
 
 
Dead Megatron
17:51 / 06.07.06
If I were to write & direct a Hulk sequel, I'd use the same comic book-looking split screen Anf Lee used (which I found utterly genious - it reminded me of those old cartoons that were almost a perfect recriation of the comics. Anyone else old enought to remember those?), but I'd add on the action by: 1)showing Bruce Banner on the run from the government, as it should be; 2) army experiments on gamma radiated mutants (Abominable); 3) The Leader as the main bad guy(probably some crazy scientist experimentning on himself - an oldie but goodie cliché); and 4) She-Hulk. we could call it "Hulk: Gamma"
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:05 / 07.07.06
Call it Hulk Smash and climax with a Hulk vs. She-Hulk vs. Abomination vs. US ARMY vs. Leader's weird androids battle that completely levels a City, perhaps Houston Texas.
 
 
Hieronymus
17:31 / 07.07.06
It's kind of funny. I've been playing a lot of Hulk: Ultimate Destruction and while a high volume of the cut scenes in the game are corny and hilariously overplayed (the game is fanastic if you're a Hulk fan or just looking to blow off some destructive steam)... the idea of Emil Blonsky as an overbearing NSA agent and the drive to turn Banner's freak accident into a military weapon, as well as Doc Samson serving as shrink/Otacon to Banner, is 100x more useful narratively than the silliness that was Nick Nolte's character in the movie.

Abomination is the only real nemesis Hulk has ever had. To have his father turn into Absorbing Man was just cheap and hackneyed as far as exposition was concerned.
 
 
Dead Megatron
18:38 / 07.07.06
Call it Hulk Smash and climax with a Hulk vs. She-Hulk vs. Abomination vs. US ARMY vs. Leader's weird androids battle that completely levels a City, perhaps Houston Texas.

That looks good, I can live with that (as long as there's no poodles)

And, althought his turning into Absorbing Dude at the end was a bit of a stretch, I totally dug Nolte's character. Great rendering of the "mad scientist" stereotype.

I wouldn't mind giving the Leader some minor psychic powers as well (so he can play with Bruce's mind from afar...)

oh yeah, and for the love of God, no Rick Jones, please. Him not being on the 1st movie was the 1st movie's greatest asset.
 
 
Mistoffelees
17:19 / 08.07.06
The Hulk I liked best, was the Todd McFarlnae grey somber smart Hulk. Let´s have him in the new movie. Maybe even from the period he was a mobster bodyguard in Las Vegas.
 
 
Sleeperservice
20:58 / 16.07.06
The mutant poodle killed it for me the first time I saw this film. That was back when it first came out. Then came Brokeback Mountain and in my quest following that film to see all things Ang Lee I watched the Hulk again. Pretty good. Certainly much better than I recalled. The mutant poodle was a total mistake still, but the rest of the film was ok. Not at all like your typical actioner.

Then today it was on TV (ITV2 I think) and it just keeps getting better. The script is good, Bana is always worth watching and while I always knew the Hulk comics were about the violence, anger and rage inside man, this adds even more personal trauma & father/son angst into the mix.

I recommend seeing it again. Bearing in mind it's not a typical actioner and that mutant poodles are funny...
 
  

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