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Look, it's the Hulk

 
  

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H3ct0r L1m4
12:56 / 17.12.02
 
 
gridley
13:01 / 17.12.02
Those pants aren't purple! What kind of sham is this?
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
13:19 / 17.12.02
don't they look slightly purple? =)

and he looks like eric bana to me.
 
 
iconoplast
13:27 / 17.12.02
Found the trailer.

http://www.apple.com/trailers/universal/the_hulk/
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
13:45 / 17.12.02
Wait. Ang Lee?
 
 
The Natural Way
14:12 / 17.12.02
Yep.

Weird, eh?
 
 
iconoplast
14:22 / 17.12.02
Well, he does jump a lot...
 
 
The Natural Way
14:23 / 17.12.02
Yeah, he does, but still.... I've known about his directing Hulk for ages and it did come as quite a surprise at first.
 
 
The Natural Way
14:27 / 17.12.02
That was a weird sentence. What I meant to say was: it took me a while to get used to the idea.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
15:09 / 17.12.02
Yes. I can just picture the Hulk gracefully running up the stalk of a thin tree, leaping from branch to branch.
 
 
Jack Fear
15:27 / 17.12.02
Shyeah: as if Crouching Tiger were the only thing Ang Lee had ever directed.

Every picture the man's done has been different from the last. Fuckin'-A, people, get a grip. Or a sense of history, whichever.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
15:52 / 17.12.02
that's the teaser trailer. very few of the movie has been shown until now but next year we'll grow tired of it.
 
 
Hieronymus
03:57 / 08.06.03
Ever since I was a little kid during the height of the TV show, I've loved the Hulk. So the more I read articles like this one, the more anxious I get.

Anybody else a little excited about this flick? It genuinely sounds like Lee is approaching this with art house honesty.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
04:21 / 08.06.03
It looks like it's going to be pretty awful from everything that I've seen. And jeezy creezy, that's got to be one of the worst movie posters of all time. It's too hard to read - sometimes I'll see it on a billboard, and I know it's the Hulk, but I still have trouble "reading" the image. It's hideous - badly designed and poorly composed.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
12:54 / 08.06.03
Everyone in interviews trying to play down the comic book elements of the material - Eric Bana saying that Lee's trying to make a Greek tragedy - makes me cringe. No one's talking about the only thing that matters - will the Hulk still look as cartoony as he does in the trailers?

I'll agree Ang Lee is a geuinely talented director - being very familiar with all of his films except Eat Drink Man Woman, and he's brought the same attitude, and the same staff, to work on the Hulk. But for the first time there's a vital element to the work that he and James Schamus can't control - what ILM are doing, and whether it'll come up to snuff. Because it won't really matter if Hulk is as emotionally rewarding as Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon or as dramatically perverse as The Ice Storm if when the Hulk comes on screen you can't suspend disbelief.

At the moment, he looks beautiful if you see him in shadow, or outside the context provided by the real world around him. Even within that context, he looks pretty cool in stills. But moving, massive musculature writhing around, looking like a part of his environment? Can't see it. The trailers look crap. Funny, but crap. Pretty sure that's not what Lee's going for with this film... and yeah, people keep telling that the man's never made a duff movie, and it's true. Ride With The Devil is one of my favourite Westerns, and even got a good performance out of Skeet Ulrich. But all it takes is one loss to destroy an 'undefeated' reputation as if it was never there.
 
 
Mazarine
13:38 / 08.06.03
Shrek on steroids, from the trailers I've seen.
 
 
Seth
14:48 / 08.06.03
But for the first time there's a vital element to the work that he and James Schamus can't control - what ILM are doing, and whether it'll come up to snuff.

I'll eagerly chuck disbelief out of the window, even in the face of really stoopid concepts and none-too special effects. I can sit back on my sofa and 100% accept that Superman is capable of going backwards in time by flying fast enough to reverse Earth's orbit. Because Lois Lane is dead, and Christopher Reeve has totally sold me on the moment, and Superman is capable of doing anything.

I can watch Regan's dumb plastic head revolve and spit silly green gunk and believe she's controlled by a horrendous, timeless evil. I can watch a glove puppet shoot out of a man's chest and imagine the horror of the creature gestating to full term inside his guts. I can watch Jean Grey hold back of wall of extremely fake CGI water and know that her life is on the line, then grieve with her stricken husband despite his silly codename and plastic visor. I can put my faith in a giant rubber shark and marvel at God Almighty as He burns the Nazi infidels who dare to defile His Ark.

If the context of the rest of the movie works, and if the actors can sell me on the reality of the scene, and if the movie is shot with passion and integrity, I'll believe in a fifteen foot green man with expanding pants and unfeasible muscles who was somehow created by a radiation experiment. No matter how cartoonish or goofy or ineptly rendered he appears. I reckon Ang Lee is capable of doing just that, so I'll be surprised if the special effects make much of a difference to me either way.

BTW: Gollum looks shite out of context, too. In the film he's fucking awesome. This isn't the first film that asks you to believe in its special effects, it won't be the last, and you'll be able to see all the seams if you want to, all wires and computer trickery if that's the experience you're after. I'm betting the film's so good that you won't want to, but I guess none of us will know that 'til it's released.
 
 
krakaboom
19:16 / 08.06.03
testify, reflect! testify!

nice post.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
20:49 / 08.06.03
Oh dear. Let's try this again, for the hard of thinking.

The entire movie is reliant on the Hulk. He is the concept. This is not the occasional slightly crap special effect or concept that you can shrug off or happily accept, then move on. I'm with you on nearly every example you cite, but none of them are relevant, except for Gollum. And ILM have already said that Gollum was a little easier than this - less musculature, and hardly interacts with his environment at all. So this is a more difficult 'special effect', and appears in far more of the movie. Do you see? It's not something you can pass off. If the Hulk looks as crap throwing a tank in the finished product as he does in the trailer, then credibility starts oozing out of the movie, especially with everyone else in the movie so deadpan scared of what appears to be a cartoon Brock Lesnar.

Rather than reeling off a list of minor special effects you did buy, a better analogy would be if Ang Lee did this movie and the title role was played by Chevy Chase. Painted green.

I still have hopes, 'cause like I said, I love Lee's movies, and I love the Hulk (and Sam Elliott's playing General 'Thunderbolt' Ross, which is the most perfect casting since that guy who played J.J. Jameson in Spider-Man). But the hopes, they ain't high.
 
 
Seth
21:22 / 08.06.03
Nothing you've written even comes close to invalidating what I posted, Nailbunny.

Everything we saw of Gollum was extremely poor from the trailer. Even now when I see excerpts of The Two Towers the effect by itself does not work outside of the context of the film. How Gollum is introduced, how the character develops, how his movements and voice work throughout the movie, how he builds believable relationships with the other characters. None of this is in evidence without seeing the entire finished film, which is exactly the same problem we have with the Hulk. Wait 'til you've seen the movie.

I can't believe that you're not aware that in most of Hollywood's summer/blockbuster product the effects are the concept? There's absolutely nothing new here. My examples are a list of ideas and special effects that have either dated horribly or were never much cop in the first place, all of which can be torn to shreds by anyone who cares to point out the flaws - nonetheless they all still play out brilliantly in context. We do not have any kind of context for what we've seen from the Hulk.

Oh, and as for the hard of thinking comment: don't patronise me, you fuck. I can accept your reservations, no matter how half-assed they are (especially when based on a couple of very quickly edited shots). I don't accept your tone, which is as condescending as usual.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
23:33 / 08.06.03
Touche.

More, please.
 
 
diz
05:39 / 09.06.03
everyone else in the movie so deadpan scared of what appears to be a cartoon Brock Lesnar.

i think i'd have a harder time believing people weren't scared shitless of anyone who looked even vaguely like Brock Lesnar. that man is a BEAST.

but i think the point with Gollum made by reflect is that it might look better in context than it does now. i'm hoping he's right because i've already promised someone i'd see the damn thing with them.

and Sam Elliott's playing General 'Thunderbolt' Ross, which is the most perfect casting since that guy who played J.J. Jameson in Spider-Man

this was one of those times when my memory of the actor in another role made suspension of disbelief more difficult, or at least more comical, for me. i just kept expecting J Jonah Jameson to rape Peter Parker and tattoo a swastika on his ass.
 
 
Poke it with a stick
14:00 / 10.06.03
A pic of the big, green angry bloke from Reuters. They haven't exactly gone to town on making him look convincing
 
 
FinderWolf
15:13 / 10.06.03
A few reviews up of the completed film (i.e. no more 'we're working on the CGI for another 2 weeks) up at www.aint-it-cool-news.com.

The average review? Seems to be pretty good with some weaknesses overall. Main complaints include CGI and pacing.
 
 
videodrome
16:55 / 10.06.03
How, exaclty, could a green-skinned behemoth, born of rage and radiation, many times the size of a normal man but (by our most basic physical laws) of the same stuff as a single man, be made convincing?
 
 
FinderWolf
17:40 / 10.06.03
I'm not someone who cries for utter perfection when it comes to CGI (for example, the CGI bits in Spider-Man didn't bother me at all), but look at how amazing Gollum looked in TTT. (Although the point about subconsciously accepting Gollum more because the whole world is fantasy in those movies is well taken and very astute.)

And JURASSIC PARK, done a whopping 15 or so years ago, had CGI stuff and it looked pretty amazing. And that was an a non-fantasy world setting as well.

I just don't buy the 'it's a comic book character, how could you ever expect it to look realistic?' argument -- seems like a cop-out to me, in a business where billions of dollars go towards making the impossible look and feel real (and where, many times, they've succeeded in this goal).

We'll see when the movie hits. I have an open mind. Some of the main complaints I've heard about the Hulk are 1) the feeling of the character's weight seems to be off a bit and 2) his movement style.

But even if ILM doesn't please the fans with this, we can take comfort that I'm sure some great strides were made with this film and all the work they put into CGI character creation, so that in a few years when someone tries this again in a film, it'll look 10 times better.
 
 
finger n' thump
19:49 / 10.06.03
hunterwolf, I'm a fan 'o yours , so I apologise for tripping you up.

Jurrasic Park was actually only ten gold rings ago.

Hulk effect? I want the hulk to look cartoony.

not shit.

but defintely cartoony.
 
 
videodrome
05:22 / 17.06.03
Well, tin, you get your wish. He's actually a lot better looking than the trailers would suggest, but there's still the sense that he's often on a different plane, compositionally speaking, than other stuff in the frame.

But I'm getting ahead of myself. Gotta step back. Oh yeah:


SPOILERS






This is a pretty bad movie. Not for lack of trying on the part of many involved, but bad nonetheless. in the end, I thought it was incredibly tedious.

Personally, I don't think there's much going on with the character. You know, industrio-military complex, guy gets mad, gets green, hulk SMASH!, end of story. Works great as an episodic thing, but as a film? I had my doubts.

So does Ang Lee. On one hand, he never for a second lets you forget that this is based on a comic book. Split screen, weird wipes, floating frames and fades - they guy does everything possible to replicate the look of a comic page, shy of actually shooting one on an animation stand. With all the tricks I had some odd Requiem For A Dream flashbacks, given the cast.

On the other hand, he's determined to create some meld of Shakespeare and Wagner, light on the bombast, though, as we prefer our emotions to be softly poetic. The Hulk's first transformation is more a sigh than an explosion, and the whole movie shifts into 'hush' whenever possible. While I don't think that "comic book" and, er, "introspective action" are necessarily at odds, Lee doesn't strike any balance here, going for broke on both sides and leaving a drawn-out, boring mess in the wake.

The script doesn't help. Yeah, the hulk dogs are really, really stupid, but worse are the 180 degree character shifts, or complete lack of reasonible characterization. Betty Ross is the same Hollywood attractive scientist we've seen in a million flicks. When a character reminds you of anything from The Hollow Man, it's a bad sign. The dialogue is laughable, the setups often little more than a collection of incidentals, and the structure is bogged down by too many attempts to be something that's ultimately never born.

It's to the great credit of Jennifer Connelly, Nick Nolte, Sam Elliott and Eric Bana that any of the film is watchable. Connelly and Nolte are fantastic, her with an impossibly anemic part and he chewing the scenery with enough relish to keep a dozen pickle farms in business. Eliott really tries to make a godawful stock character work, and Bana knows he's got his work cut out for him, but throws down anyway. In places, their work was good enough that it took a second to realize how bad some of the shit coming from their mouths really was.

As for the big guy - not too bad. The tank scene is great, easily the top action bit in the film. In context he's less Shrek than supposed, though there's a scene where Lee seems to acknowledge the resemblance, as the Hulk catches his reflection in a pool of water. Yeah, yeah, that's happened before, so mayhap I'm reading too much into it. The shorts look ridiculous, and there's some rubber skin going on. but on the whole, better than feared.

But the script just doesn't know when to stop. The Hulk, as a character, is bound by only one rule - he's fueled by anger. Even that can be bent, as there's a need for the guy to have a couple introspective moments. But it appears the thinking went: 'well, he's already big and green, so fuck it. Let's have him catch missiles, be nigh-invulnerable, and grow larger the angrier he gets.'

The Matrix already proved that no limits=no fun, and this confirms it. Some shred of vulnerability would have really helped out here. Beyond that, god, there's so much. Some good, some bad, and a lot of head-scratching stuff. Why the same frigging score from Crouching Tiger? Why the impossibly cosmic tone? Why rely so much on Akira for inspiration? (Well, I suppose that's obvious.) Why isn't this fun? Tsk.

Ang has definietely done what he wanted to do, but I wish I had a better sense of what that was. Others in the audience felt the same way, evidently: i've never seen so many people walk out of a free screening. This has none of the charm of Spider-Man or the balls/ass puking action of X2...as a Nick Nolte fan i'm satisfied, but how many of us are there?
 
 
FinderWolf
20:56 / 18.06.03
Tin O'Toms, I didn't know I had fans. But correcting me on a point is hardly 'tripping me up' - that kind of stuff is welcome!

It seems that, from reading various reviews (thanks videodrome), this movie will range from pretty good to not that great. Ah well. I'll see it and decide, though I'm sort of glad my expectations are low (and have been for a while). CGI Hulk seems to be getting the same reviews - from pretty good to not that great.

Oh, and the split-screen comic book panel type stuff sounds like it'll annoy the hell out of me. This is not SPIDER-MAN, why be all like "Look, look, I'm evoking comic book panels, isn't that super-cool?" Although a friend of mine heard Ang Lee talk recently at the Museum of Film & TV and he said he wanted to try some new editing and filmmaking techniques here; guess this is what he's talking about.
 
 
Tamayyurt
16:24 / 20.06.03
Anybody seen this yet? Somebody tell me something before I go see it tonight!
 
 
CameronStewart
20:12 / 20.06.03
I saw Hulk at a free screening on Wednesday.

I really enjoyed watching Hulk tear it up. Yeah, he's obviously CGI and there's no getting around it, but I think he's still animated exceptionally well and I was giggling with glee as he ripped tanks apart and leaped around.

The casting is solid across the board with some truly great performances, but the story is terrible. An overcomplicated, ineffective revamp of the Hulk's origin, and there's one hugely unneccessary villain. The whole point of Hulk is that the conflict is man vs himself - Banner must fight the monster within him. The addition of an "evil" character for the Hulk to fight is too much. Save it for the sequels.

The relentless split-screen, cross-cut, morphing wipe montage editing was distracting as hell - it worked in a few key places to make an interesting scene transition, and there are one or two instances where the split screen was effective and even story-related, but on the whole it was way too ostentatious and only served to pull me out of the movie.

Ultimately the movie takes itself far too seriously - the dramatic scenes seem to be very weighty and of inconsistent tone with the Hulk Smash parts. It's a joyless movie - audiences won't react to this nearly as well as the sight of Peter Parker whooping with exhilaration as he swings through the city.

I think it's worth seeing if you can get a cheap ticket, just for the sight of Hulk leaping through the air and destroying heavy artillery. I'd definitely rather watch X2 again though.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
00:50 / 21.06.03
Brilliant Hulk review from The Minor Fall, The Major Lift:

GREEN ACRES

We don't usually review films here at TMFTML, but we're pleased to have a very special guest who's stopped in this afternoon to give us his take on Universal's latest blockbuster. Ladies and gentlemen, here's The Hulk:

Let Hulk get this out of way first: Hulk have tremendous amount of respect for Ang Lee. Hulk especially fond of understated grace Lee bring to Sense and Sensibility. And Hulk not forget the many innovations of Crouching Tiger, which Hulk see after Daredevil recommend it. (Daredevil see movie seven times. Hulk still not figure that out.)

But Hulk bio-pic? Hulk not happy at all! Hulk smash Hulk bio-pic! Hulk have such high hopes at first: top-notch director, Oscar- winning actress, drug-free Nick Nolte: Hulk not think anything can go wrong. Let Hulk tell you something: bigshot Hollywood producers tell lies for living! Hulk feel violated.

Hulk think weakest part of movie is writing. Hulk sorry Hulk not know how to spell pretentious, but that Hulk new favorite word for scenarist James Schamus. If this the kind of work that fancy-pants Columbia professors turn out, Hulk think about getting job in Ivy League! (Hulk try Princeton instead; Hulk interested in doing project with fellow movie star Cornel West, whose American Evasion of Philosophy: A Genealogy of Pragmatism challenge many of Hulk's assumptions and help Hulk rediscover seminal works of William James).

Aside from lousy screenplay, Hulk especially upset by substandard CGI used in picture: Hulk skin tone look atrocious! Hulk Hulk, not Kermit the Frog! (Hulk kid Kermit the Frog because Hulk love Kermit the Frog; Kermit, have your people call Hulk people!) And those pants! Hulk not be caught dead in lavender, especially this season!

All in all, Hulk very disappointed with Hulk movie. Hulk expect something classy, like Spider-Man, and wind up getting something crappy, unexciting, and unimaginative, like Superman movie with Richard Pryor. (Hulk want to know what genius green light that?) Hulk feel badly burned by Tinseltown dream factory. Hulk say this more in sorrow than in anger. Which is good: you wouldn't like Hulk when Hulk angry.
 
 
videodrome
02:05 / 21.06.03
Very nice. This just writes itself, doesn't it?
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
03:37 / 21.06.03
Once again Hollywood spends billions on entertaining just me.

Thank you, Hollywood.
 
 
Seth
11:08 / 21.06.03
something classy, like Spider-Man

Jesus. Now there's something you don't read everyday.
 
  

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