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Moby Attacked!

 
  

Page: 12(3)

 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
08:10 / 24.12.02
Slim Duncan is right, there is NO comparison between being mugged and being raped.

Just wanted to congratulate you for doing sterling work in missing the point. I was not comparing mugging and raping, just questioning your response to both. And it's good to know that you consider at least one of these to be a bad thing.
 
 
The Falcon
13:51 / 24.12.02
There's a fine line between sampling and wholesale theft; the majority of 'Play' is on the wrong side of said line.

I've no problem in anyone who wants to question my views. As yet, I've still to see any close examination/deconstruction, though they are indeed 'questionable', as are anyone else's here. Love that there's a 'standard' to live up to.

I'm wholly against bigotry, as if I should have to explain that. And, ideally, I'd rather there were no violence going round - but as there's a surplus, Moby can have some. Are 'we' against death and war, too?

As for the other, are not enough "'lithers" leaping to your aid? Bonus points for the invocation of their feelings, too.

Flowers - clearly your point is wafer-thin. You want to find out if two (by your admission non-comparable) things cause the same reaction? How strange. Well done, nonetheless.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
15:51 / 24.12.02
Duncan, I'm not saying that the two things weren't comparable (and that's not saying that they are either) just that I wasn't. And I hope Haus is alright because it's as though I can feel a ghostly hand on my shoulder and a spectral voice telling me to be sarcastic...

As for your point about wholesale theft and sampling, I might take you up on that when I get back to my flat and my copy of Play... OTTOMH I presume 'Porcelein' is exempt from this as it doesn't contain samples and you condemn all mash-ups as, by definition, they use other people's music...
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:47 / 24.12.02
There's a fine line between sampling and wholesale theft; the majority of 'Play' is on the wrong side of said line.

I'm not clear on this - the only way that sentence makes any literal sense is in that you think that sampling is fine if the copyright holders approve of and recieve royalties for their use in other compositions.

So, out of curiosity, I'm wondering what would make Moby's use of samples on his records "theft" in your mind, particularly since all of his samples have been legally used and the copyright holders to those recordings have seen substantial royalties from having been on his albums and in the adverts he's put his songs in. Is it 'theft' simply because you don't like the music Moby has made? What is an acceptable use of sampling in your mind?
 
 
Old brown-eye is back
21:34 / 24.12.02
Quite right. I think you'll find that if you add us all up, Barbeloids know quite literally everything.
 
 
Old brown-eye is back
21:36 / 24.12.02
D'oh! Wrong page.
 
 
The Falcon
00:33 / 25.12.02
Wholesaling dead people's music. I don't care about the legalities of it, really...Naturally, a major label wouldn't allow such a thing. Legitimised graverobbing is still graverobbing.

I'm sure the descendents, if they received anything, were happy to do so. Although, I think a lot of this music was public domain some time ago.

Shit is shit, regardless.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
02:37 / 25.12.02
So........sampling the work of the dead is immoral? Sampling work that belongs in the public domain screws over the descendents? I don't get what you're trying to say - are you talking specifically about Moby, or is this some kind of philosophy that you have? I can understand disliking Moby's music, but this whole "graverobbing" reasoning is simple-minded and doesn't make much sense. Are you against sampling and appropriation in art and music in general? Why is it specically 'wrong' to sample the work of the dead?

I would really like for you to attempt to articulate your ideas better - right now, it's all getting lost in a fog of "Moby SUX!!! He's a GRAVEROBBER!!! Shit is SHIT, DOOD!", and none of the ideas that inform your opinions are clear at all.
 
 
The Falcon
19:40 / 25.12.02
Yeah. That's essentially what I'm saying.

But the majority of the album, and the tracks, which I think are deceptive because of the wonderful vocals, is wholesaled. I think there's nothing wrong with creating a loop out of a sample (say) several seconds long, but Moby's built tracks around the samples here. They are the centrepiece, the crux, and as far as I'm concerned, the only worthwhile bit.

'Porcelain' and that 'we rock the party' one have no redeeming features.

The essence of what I'm saying is merely bile. I've seen very little credit on the album for the legacy it steals from, though (correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can remember there were some poor proto-Wittgensteinian essays.) And Moby's launched a very succesful career in advertising and coffee-table music off their (doubtless, disgustingly poor) back.
 
 
The Falcon
23:48 / 25.12.02
Sorry, that should read "poor proto-Wittgensteinian essays, DOOD!!!"
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
14:56 / 26.12.02
Wait, are we talking about the incident at the MTV movie awards where Eminem attacked Triumph the Insult Comic Dog?

The Big Bad Alpha Male Rapper for the Republican Party wasnting to beat up a PUPPET, but then backed off and let his "Posse" surround A PUPPET?!?!

There is no reason for Moby to be attacked, and yes, he should have been intimitdated, since the Republican Rapper was ready to unleash his wrath on a PUPPET. I am often scared of the disturbingly mentally ill as well.
 
 
some guy
15:22 / 26.12.02
I am often scared of the disturbingly mentally ill as well.

Maybe everyone should take a deep breath and reflect on the fact that Eminem is a showman first and foremost. His onstage antics and the range of characters present in his songs (do we have to go over yet again the fact that Marshall Mathers is not Slim Shady is not Eminem?) place him firmly in the world of theater - he's a lot more complex than the "trailer park" critics like to make out. He's not a "rawk star," he's a vaudeville performer.

Could not the puppet episode be a wry commentary on the typical self-aggrandising that characterizes much of rap? As often as Slim Shady talks himself up, Mathers talks himself down (a tendency crystallized in the climax to 8 Mile.) I wonder how many of the Barbelith critics are basing their judgment of him on his fans, rather than actually listening to his often-clever lyrics (Without Me, anyone?). Personally, I hated Eminem ... until I actually sat down and listened to The Eminem Show.

re: Moby and sampling. Sampling (more politely called "homage" outside of music) is certainly a valid technique. Sampling can be powerful meta-commentary (Aerosmith in Eminem's Sing for the Moment), subversive (Pet Shop Boys transforming Barry White's heterosexual love anthem into gay disco in Positive Role Model) or any number of things. But the point is that the art is in the commentary. My problem with Moby is that he uses samples not to underscore any kind of artistic point, but merely to stand on shoulders in an effort to prop up otherwise weak tracks.

Does the sample in Natural Blues actually say anything new? Is the track at all interesting without the sample? I would say no, and in this sense Moby is "graverobbing," using the efforts of others not to say anything, but to line his own coffers. In fact, listening to Play, it's difficult to come to see that Moby has anything to say at all. He's not an artist, but a soundtrack composer whose jingles are long enough to function as songs for airplay in a world where the line between commercial and content is more blurry than ever.

At its best, sampling is the footnotes of a witty academic essay. At its worst, it's Moby.

And no, I don't think he "deserved" to get mugged.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
17:30 / 26.12.02
I agree with most everything that Laurence is saying there, but I don't agree with the notion that Eminem was making some kind of statement or commentary by flipping out on Moby and Triumph The Insult Comic Dog/Robert Smigel at that MTV awards show. Eminem's a smart and talented guy, but I do think the guy tends to lack a sense of humor about himself when others try to take the piss out of him. I think he's always a little too defensive, and though it comes out very clever on his albums, it comes out very petty and childish.

What I do buy is Eminem's explanation of why he reacted in such a bizarre way to Triumph - he honestly had never seen Triumph before, and thought that it was all some kind of bizarre plot hatched by Moby to get back at him. It's not hard for me to imagine that Eminem is not a Conan O'Brien fan, and he's definitely got his fair share of paranoid delusions, so hey. Whatever.
 
  

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