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What you wearing tart?

  
  

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Tryphena Absent
15:41 / 05.12.02
Quite a lot of you already know that I'm doing a dissertation on fashion and gender. Well it's got to that point in the essay where I'm bored of the subject and I feel like I need some first-hand testimony on people's attitude to their clothes so I'd appreciate it if some of you would answer some questions. I'm interested in absolutely every possible answer to these questions, I don't care how old you are, I don't care if you have no idea what's in out or all about... you're special. Help me!

Do you feel that your clothes represent your emotions, your personality or your sexuality? Whether they are day to day wear or garments you put on specifically to go out in the evening?

Do you buy clothes to match your wardrobe or as individual items?

Are your clothes related to your gender, do you wear things specifically because they're masculine or feminine?

Do you own clothes that you wear to be seen in?
 
 
Shortfatdyke
16:02 / 05.12.02
Ah, interesting.

My immediate response was that I don't care about what I wear. I have no interest in labels, no wish to advertise whoever. Then again, I found myself drooling over the camping/outdoorsey stuff in Milletts yesterday. So perhaps it's just that I go for different stuff to what's 'fashionable'.

I don't deliberately dress to look like a dyke. Sometimes I get something that's cliched (Caterpiller hat, or my black framed glaasses, for example) as a bit of a joke. I want to be visibly queer, I want to be identified in that way. The thought of wearing what is seen as 'feminine' clothing is quite silly to me. I would look stupid, I think. I've joked about wearing a dress and looking like a bad drag queen, but it's true, I think I would. I fit in a lot more with folk down in Cornwall than I did in London - people dress for the weather and the hills (gasp!) down here, perhaps that's why I had bigger rings put in my ears yesterday, to make sure I'm still seen as queer.

I think if I was thin, then I'd be more interested in what I wore, purely because I'd have more of a choice. But it'd still be the same kind of thing. I'd love to wear a suit, though.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
16:20 / 05.12.02
Do you feel that your clothes represent your emotions,

Hardly ever. I'm not nearly extroverted enough to wear my emotions on my sleave.

your personality

In a way, I think my clothes are a carefully crafted camouflage for my personality. I have always gone in for a sort of preppy-who's-been-sleeping-in-his-clothes look, with occasional excursions into fuck-you-I-like-it accessorizing such as red suspenders (uh, braces to you, right? Things that hold your pants up) or a muscle shirt. My personality is more bookish and strangely mannered than that. I'm told it's odd to offer strangers on the bus a piece of your orange; I don't know how a person who doesn't find that strange should dress. Dressing for me has always been a way to conceal or neutralize my social awkwardness.

or your sexuality?

I guess it can't help but. I definitely dress like a straight man.

Do you buy clothes to match your wardrobe or as individual items?

Mostly to match my wardrobe and almost always with the advice of a woman.

Are your clothes related to your gender, do you wear things specifically because they're masculine or feminine?

Not consciously, but, like sfd, I'd look ridiculous in a dress.

Do you own clothes that you wear to be seen in?

Only work-related ones. I hate ties, but I have a tastefully outre selection of them. A note on suits: it's a misconception that they're uncomfortable. In fact, only cheap suits are uncomfortable. Nice ones are like wearing air. I would guess people are sometimes uncomfortable with the anonymity of suit-wearing, or maybe the claim to power. The neckties do suck, though, always flapping around under your neck.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
16:26 / 05.12.02
Do you feel that your clothes represent your emotions, your personality or your sexuality? Whether they are day to day wear or garments you put on specifically to go out in the evening?

None of the above... I tend to have some sort of image in mind which I then try and fit things in with, but it never quite works properly - partly because often the image just doesn't suit me anyway, I think I have spent far too long in denial about the fact that I am basically a geek and look stupid in floaty things. I don't usually change for evenings, because I'm going to the pub. I used to love black tie dressing, but now I can't be arsed - must be getting old.

Do you buy clothes to match your wardrobe or as individual items?

Individual items, which is why I have several things hanging in the wardrobe which I have worn once, never worn, etc - had nothing that went with them. It's daft, but I tend to see something and then become intent upon buying it, to the extent where I can know perfectly well that this is likely to happen and still buy the dratted thing anyway. It also works the other way - I love black jumpers, and so even though I must have about fifteen of the things I still buy new ones, which makes absolutely no sense - but I find it very hard to be even vaguely rational about these things.

Are your clothes related to your gender, do you wear things specifically because they're masculine or feminine?

Not really - well, not consciously. I don't wear trousers very often, but that's more to do with the fact that I hate shopping for them (the most tedious clothes shopping in the world, ever). Also I like a bit of fluffy - boas etc - and often go for texture, which puts me very firmly in the girly camp, but I don't do it to look like a girl, if you know what I mean (making no sense here, bah). And, also, skirts etc actaully suit me better than trousers (I think) and tailoring. Having said that, I assume that's what you meant by masculine and feminine? Perhaps it's more telling that I automatically assumed that that's what you meant...

Do you own clothes that you wear to be seen in?

That blue coat, yes, but apart from that one not really - if I put something on in order to be seen in it, I usually get it all wrong and look daft. I used to do this a lot more though, when I had money - was a lot more flamboyant.

But I do basically love clothes, and I do still go off-kilter and buy daft things (e.g. bought a muff the other week - wtf?). I also find I fall in and out of love with certain looks - e.g. this time last year I was all knee-length skirts, now I can't wear anything that doesn't hit the floor.
 
 
The Apple-Picker
17:01 / 05.12.02
Do you feel that your clothes represent your emotions, your personality or your sexuality?
Sometimes, but not always, do they represent my emotions. When I was depressed, I wore the same overalls for about 5 or 6 months straight, breaking it up only with the occasional sweatpants or pajama pants. Luckily, I was a student, and students can get away with such slobbishness.

I'm not sure exactly what is meant by "sexuality," so I'll use this: the quality or state of being sexual : a : the condition of having sex b : sexual activity c : expression of sexual receptivity or interest especially when excessive. As for the condition of having a sex (and in an attempt to sidestep stickiness, I am female and am a woman), I wear a bra (and cute, girlish, other Underoos--I don't know if this stuff counts as fashion), but most else is pretty neutral. Jeans, turtlenecks. Almost always pants, rarely skirts. Though the shoes I wear do tend to have heels--boots.

Sexuality as in straight/straightish/queer/whatever? No. I don't know how to do that. Though, The Chamber in my town sells those kerchiefs along with a color code index that's supposed to be international or famous or something.

Sexuality as it relates to the quality or state of being sexual: I think so, but not really as far as "an expression of sexual receptivity." I don't know if I'm contradicting myself or not here. I probably am. I am a sexual being and so I'm sure that somehow affects the way I dress myself, but I don't mean it to be a sign that I'm looking for action. I enjoy my own body, and I dress primarily for my own pleasure--not always for the way clothes make my body feel, but more for the way the clothes make me feel in my body. This is probably coming out as a totaly inarticulate jumble. Are you feeling me?

This has partly to do with the way I perceive clothing to be costuming. My uniform is the jeans and turtleneck--that's the easy, no-think way for me to dress. Other ways of dressing, when I'm going to be seen in public, have much to do with the way I think about how I look in different clothes. This also kind of brings me back to the emotion thing: I don't really dress so much to express how I am feeling as how I want to feel. For instance, I'm generally a low makeup, low fuss type of gal when dressing, but lately because I've been feeling kind of vulnerable, too exposed, I've been wearing lots of heavy black eyemakeup and thick lipstick in addition to the dark clothes and my mum's meanish boots. This isn't really *not* me--it is--but it's easier to draw out of myself the character I want to be. So, I feel more protected.

Whether they are day to day wear or garments you put on specifically to go out in the evening? They're all the same thing, unless, of course, I'm going somewheres fancylike.

Do you buy clothes to match your wardrobe or as individual items? I don't buy clothes. I'm poor. But if I weren't poor, I'd buy clothes that I like, and sometimes those go with things I already have.

Are your clothes related to your gender, do you wear things specifically because they're masculine or feminine? Oops. Here we are with the gender thing. As a girl, I wore clothes that were boyish because I wanted to be a boy. I wanted to be a pro baseball player and didn't see any girls of the kind.

Now, I mostly dress in what I consider to be kind of gender neutral clothing (the jeans, the turtlenecks), but I wear makeup, have a "womanly" body, and wear my hear long. Sometimes, (usually when I go for a run in the city) I try to look more guyish with a baseball cap and bulky clothes. Sometimes, I want to look really girly and so wear the floral skirts, or the tight shirts.

Do you own clothes that you wear to be seen in? Absolutely. Those would be all the clothes that I wear that aren't Underoos or any of my functional running clothes. If I really didn't care what I looked like, I'd just wear those overalls and t-shirts again. But, I do care some. My clothes fall on a spectrum of to-be-seen-ness. The boots, gowns, and all shiny or sparkly red clothing are always high; the t-shirts are always low. Jeans fall in the middle.
 
 
that
17:05 / 05.12.02
Do you feel that your clothes represent your emotions, your personality or your sexuality? Whether they are day to day wear or garments you put on specifically to go out in the evening?

My clothes don't tend to represent my emotions - they might, however, be indicative of whether I'm feeling fat and ugly (yes, I'm recovering from an eating disorder, I realise those two things don't automatically go together, and I'm fat positive with regard to everyone but myself), or feeling thin and pretty, but that's about it.

I sometimes seek to indicate my sexuality with my clothes. I love wearing suits, I adore pinstripes, and I look pretty dykey when dressed like that. I'm not outwardly butch, or even boyish - but I do like looking 'like a dyke'. But I quite like the attention I sometimes get (esp. from butch women, because I have a penchant for butch women) when I don't dress like that, when I dress in a softer, more stereotypically 'girly' fashion. I don't go out much, I don't have a job and I'm not in college at present. But I wear pretty much the same stuff for day to day tasks outside where I have to deal with people (because if I dress too scruffily, I feel even more insecure than usual), and for going out in the evening. When I'm at home/walking the dog I just wear scruffy clothes...and at the gym I wear clothes appropriate for the gym.

Do you buy clothes to match your wardrobe or as individual items?

I don't do the 'wardrobe' thing - I don't have a specific look, and I like being able to wear whatever I feel like.

Are your clothes related to your gender, do you wear things specifically because they're masculine or feminine?

I think the notions of masculine and feminine are long overdue for an overhaul. So no. I might wear clothes because they're dykey...but that's not the same thing.

Do you own clothes that you wear to be seen in?

I'm more conscious of *myself* in a full on trouser suit, or if I'm going really goth for the evening, for instance...I guess I might dress 'like a dyke' because I want to be recognisable to other lesbians. But, thinking about it, it's not just lesbians I want to be recognizable to - I like being visibly queer, although I do have a choice in the matter, and I do exercise that choice in both directions. Not sure if that answers the question, really...
 
 
w1rebaby
17:13 / 05.12.02
Do you feel that your clothes represent your emotions, your personality or your sexuality? Whether they are day to day wear or garments you put on specifically to go out in the evening?

Do you buy clothes to match your wardrobe or as individual items?

I suppose I'm a typical employed geek, in that I'm not very bothered by clothes though I can afford to buy ones that I like. I don't get that much human contact these days, so I'm not that bothered about expressing myself through my clothing beyond a certain point. I'll wear a suit if I want to appear businesslike; otherwise, the only clothes I own have been picked to all give a neutral yet hopefully vaguely trendy look (so, bought to match wardrobe). There's a bit of variation but not much. The idea is that I can throw on random clothes and look okay, and also have the option of picking and choosing carefully and looking better, but always being in a consistent basic style - vaguely dot-com. Cargo pants, GAP t-shirts, trainers. If I could fit into the stuff sold at Muji my wardrobe would be full of it.

On a practical level, I've only recently moved continents sp I don't have an extensive enough wardrobe to actually express much with my clothes anyway.

If there's a message about my personality I'd like it to be seen as "content over style". My public persona tends to swing between extrovert and withdrawn in any case. When I'm talking at 300 wpm and waving my arms about, I don't need clothes to express myself - when I'm saying nothing and holding my pint in the corner, I don't want to attract attention. Sometimes I also feel that I want to retain control over who I express myself to, and how. Using clothes would present the same image to everyone who happens to look at me.

I very rarely dress up to go out unless I'm wearing something particularly cruddy. I can wear almost whatever I want at work, and I don't see myself as a different person when I emerge from it.

Probably a lot has to do with wearing school uniform throughout school and not being that sociable outside of it, thus not growing up with the instinct that clothes were part of social expression. I do find I actually quite enjoy the opportunity to dress up when it arises, but unfortunately there aren't that many opportunities for men in my social circles, such as they are. One of the reasons I liked to go to goth and industrial clubs at university was that it gave me the chance to do so.

I don't think my clothes make any statement about my sexuality in the sense of straight or gay, and I wouldn't want them to.

Are your clothes related to your gender, do you wear things specifically because they're masculine or feminine?

No. My wardrobe style is pretty androgynous. If I magically turned into a woman tonight, all I would have to do tomorrow would be account for fit.

Do you own clothes that you wear to be seen in?

I have a couple of comedy t-shirts, but apart from that my clothes are all equally for display.
 
 
that
17:14 / 05.12.02
My italics/plain text is really annoying, isn't it? I think I might have to go and alter it.
 
 
telyn
18:00 / 05.12.02
Do you feel that your clothes represent your emotions, your personality or your sexuality? Whether they are day to day wear or garments you put on specifically to go out in the evening?

My clothes don't represent my emotions directly, but my emotional state does have an effect on what I choseto wear. Often if I am tired, or run down, I'll wear something huge and baggy like a favourite jumper. I attract less attention and it is also a comfort blanket.
If I am really unhappy I wil wear something outrageous to cheer myself up. There are definite 'harmony' clothes, which is something to do with few clothes fitting properly, but also the style. I tend not to wear clothes that don't suit my personality, it would feel wrong.

Do you buy clothes to match your wardrobe or as individual items?
Individual items. I really can't be that bothered to think about it.

Are your clothes related to your gender, do you wear things specifically because they're masculine or feminine?
I don't wear things specifically because they have a gender association, but my clothing is generally quite neutral. I wear mens trousers, because they fit better. On occasion I'll want to look 'feminine' but generally in quite a clean-cut way, not particularly soft.

Do you own clothes that you wear to be seen in?
Only ocassionally. Generally my clothes are for me to feel good in. As
The Apple-Picker said, clothes are costume, a front. Often my clothing is self defense, against other people or against my mood.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:30 / 05.12.02
I always dress roughly the same, which I think is pretty non-gender-specific- combats, boots and a T-shirt.

I would, however, recommend a book- "Subculture- the meaning of style" (I think I got the second part right) by Dick Hebdige, which, although kind of out of date in terms of its actual case studies, goes a long way into sociological reasons for dress.
 
 
Persephone
18:59 / 05.12.02
God, all your answers are so interesting...

Do you feel that your clothes represent your emotions, your personality or your sexuality? Whether they are day to day wear or garments you put on specifically to go out in the evening?

Go out in the evening? I have garments that I put on specifically to stay in evenings.... Emotions, um. My clothes are almost all the same, but probably my emotions are almost all the same. Personality, yes. Lately I have been thinking about perking things up, clothes and personality. Sexuality, um again. I have been told by my friends that I dress like a dyke, but I think it has to be taken into account that my friends are all drag queens. It's very hard to measure up.

Do you buy clothes to match your wardrobe or as individual items?

Matching. In fact, I always buy things in twos; so everything matches something. If you want to know, my ideal wardrobe would be something like Garanimals--i.e., everything would go together, but fashionably. I have extensive fantasies about this.

Are your clothes related to your gender, do you wear things specifically because they're masculine or feminine?

Probably this will reflect horribly on me, but it seems to me that you have to go out of your way to dress femininely. And since I don't try, the default is masculine.

Do you own clothes that you wear to be seen in?

I prefer rather strongly not to be seen. But I recently had an epiphany that people can see me anyway and that I'm not invisible... I'm just drab.

Except my hair. I have fab hair.

P.S. Now that I think about it, I actively relate to my clothes in terms of how they feel and fit. I can't stand to be cold in winter or hot in summer. Shoes have to be comfortable, hence Doc Martens and chunky boots. The whole Sex in the City Manolo Blahnik thing is totally outside my experience.
 
 
_pin
20:06 / 05.12.02
A new question (sorry for thread high-jack... ): Transvestives- do you wear clothes of the opposite gender for sexual fulfillment? Because my psych textbook says you do, but it's pissing me off. Which is mostly because I wear nail varnish cos I like the look of it. It really doesn't make me feel sexy, but instead I just think it looks cute. And I like the way it looks. Eye make up, on the other hand, is worn to feel sexy, but is that actually sexual gratification?

Erm... as to the gender orientation of my clothes. I'm getting flame Buffalo's for my b'day, having found some in size 12. They're pretty girly. And I have a funny yearning for this pink tee a mate of mine was wearing that had a ketchup bottle that said LOVE on the label and was filled with hearts that it was pouring out. The label said "Luella"- where may I get tees like this??

A lot of the clothes I'm wearing at the moment are boring, becasue it is winter, so I must be practical. In the summer, all my skinny wee tee's will come back out and have silly things painted on them (like the one that says "I WANT TO BE DIFFERENT" on the front and "LIKE ALL THE DIFFERENT PEOPLE" on the back). Also, all my trousers are low slung, and I have two belts, each one with one row of square spikes, to differentiate me from all the girls I know who I don't like who wear similar belts. I have no idea what that says about me, I just like it when my tops end above my trousers.

While I don't have clothes that I've gone "Hmm... this will be for going out", they do tend to end up that way. Why? I don't know. But they are brought as seperate items, except for the trousers, which are brought to make sure they go OK with my shoes (this is important, as they must end below the shoes, otherwise it looks silly).

I think I got off topic there, and just described myself... I guess I wear skinny tops just to feel... slinkier? There probablly is a slightly feminine aspect to the way I want to look, which I have very little doubt is not some deep and inner self being expressed thru my physical being, but rather just a very concious and wilful attmept to be interesting, coupled with a rejection of traditional male stereotypes (atleast around my own little microverse, anyway).

Erm... I think that's it.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
20:17 / 05.12.02
_pin - probably Luella Bartley's range for New Look, unless your friend is loaded enough to drop lots of money on a t-shirt...
 
 
grant
20:24 / 05.12.02
Do you feel that your clothes represent your emotions, your personality or your sexuality? Whether they are day to day wear or garments you put on specifically to go out in the evening?

Personality, definitely. Sexuality only inasmuch as it relates to personality. I like snarky T-shirts ("Four Track Mind" being one of my favorites). I like things that are beat up and worn, a little.
Most of all, I like things that are comfortable and neutral. In that, I'm pretty much a Gap target customer. Soft cotton blends and flannel. MMmmmm.

Oh, and I wear white socks with everything, unless it's a dressy occasion. I've got the same shoes on just about every day (from the South African shop Groundcover) and the same belt (from the same shop - they're good with the leather). The belt is looking a little gray around the edges, and the shoes are polished far too infrequently (Cordovan polish on the shoes, the belt is black).


Do you buy clothes to match your wardrobe or as individual items?

I rarely buy clothes at all. When I do, I suppose it's as individual items - I tend to buy for comfort, or for "funkiness," not so much to match a particular pair of shoes or a jacket or something.

Are your clothes related to your gender, do you wear things specifically because they're masculine or feminine?

I don't think so. That said, I dislike pink or pastel clothes (Polo shirts especially), I dislike things that bare midriff or arms (half shirts and tank tops), and I don't like things that are "pretty", much. Does that count?
My better half and I, we're always fighting over each other's T-shirts, but they're all pretty genderless.

Do you own clothes that you wear to be seen in?

Yeah, I've got some vintage-y stuff, but largely I wear clothes to be felt in. My favorite item of clothing is a black alpaca sweater, fuzzy like a plastic troll head or a little bunny rabbit, that people can't resist touching. So nice, to be a CHICK MAGNET!
Wooo!
I'm really fond of some of my skinny ties (go well with the three-button slate gray jacket), but the best of them (very early 60s number with a cool Deco chevron in the center) got eaten by moths. I also have a trilby (Stetson), currently adorned with a photo of my stepson like a press card in the hatband, often worn in conjunction with the jacket. Sort of half mod-ska, half-Hasidic (especially with the current beard) - last time I wore it out, someone at the party asked if there was a bris later.
I could go on about hats. If it ever actually gets cool here, I'll break out my Russian army cap. It looks a bit like the one Stiv wore in "Deadenders", only has buttons on it so you can attach this Ice-Planet-Hoth-style ear & face cover. I have the matching jacket from the uniform, adorned with a blank badge (large), an "I Believe In Bat-Mite" badge (small) and my grandmother's old Girl Guides pin where medals would normally go.
 
 
The Apple-Picker
20:32 / 05.12.02
I just remembered to wonder why I think that slacks (trousers, whatever!) are neutral and skirts are not.
 
 
The Apple-Picker
20:34 / 05.12.02
Oh, and I wear white socks with everything, unless it's a dressy occasion.

Oh no! One of those.
 
 
grant
20:37 / 05.12.02
Actually, reading over the thread, I'm curious: is the default mode "masculine"?

I was reading "masculine" as either a suit (bet you'd look *hot*, shortfatdyke) or else something kind of drag-kingy, in a way -- sleeveless weightlifting shirts, constructionish boots, or that "male club gear" look with the solid-color short-sleeve button-up shirt and big shiny shoes.

But maybe T-shirt and jeans *is* masculine. I dunno. Most of the women I know wear that at home, on weekends.
 
 
grant
20:40 / 05.12.02
Oh, and I wear white socks with everything, unless it's a dressy occasion.

Oh no! One of those.

We shall inherit the fashion kingdom once again, baby. Peter Lawford and James Dean, WHOOOP! Hear me now!
 
 
Perfect Tommy
20:43 / 05.12.02
I feel like my personality has changed and my wardrobe hasn't kept up. Lately I've felt sexy as hell but stuck wearing the old Tom's clothes. I guess I'm saying that I like the idea of actual outfits, and ones that represent all those good things, but I default to t-shirts and baggy corduroy pants because I moved into the old Tom's apartment naked and it was what was in his closet already.

I want to wear clothes to be seen in, but the best I have right now is an L.A. Coroner's t-shirt. I want to look like a mod wannabe or a Hindu sex god or a cross 'tween a math nerd and a goth-punk, or something... it's hard to think up a good style when you feel like you're wearing a parapersonality, you know?

Er, yeah... so I like the ideas of outfits, but I don't have any. My clothes look like individual Christmas presents from a wide variety of people who happen to have good taste, but didn't plan anything.
 
 
The Apple-Picker
21:27 / 05.12.02
But maybe T-shirt and jeans *is* masculine. I dunno. Most of the women I know wear that at home, on weekends.

That's what I'm wondering. What's with assigning genders to clothes? That's really weird.

It's not like women always wore slacks, jeans, t-shirt. The appropriate attire was a skirt or a dress. Maybe pants were worn for "men's work" in the fields or something in olden golden days.

I'm thinking it probably has something to do with the empowerment of women. They adopted the model of power they saw, which was a man. Clothes make the man. Someone must have written some books or essays on this by now, surely.

Men had no good reason to wear skirts (except for the comfort--fellas, you don't know what you're missing sometimes). For what, to dress like a second class citizen? It would be laughable. It would be embarrassing. I think it's even against some scriptures.
 
 
The Strobe
21:47 / 05.12.02
Do you feel that your clothes represent your emotions, your personality or your sexuality? Whether they are day to day wear or garments you put on specifically to go out in the evening?

They don't represent my sexuality, really, unless it's that kind of asexuality I so perfectly represent - slightly co-ordinated clothes, but still drab enough to be pretty much mix'n'match. They certainly don't suggest a sexuality, I don't think.

Emotions? Possibly unconsciously. I mean, I have noticed this term that I do tend to feel in a particular way when I'm wearing certain clothes, and vice versa. For instance; I've only got one of my more sensible pairs of trousers to wear. The moment I wear them, I realise it might be a sensible-pullover day, and I dig out some sensible Kickers to wear on my feet, probably the overcoat, and I can't be arsed to wax my hair. I feel "academic". Then, when I pull out the stupid-baggy-zippy things, which I love, it just makes sense to pull on the Vans and jacket and grease up the hair, because of the context. I feel relaxed and urban. It all sounds silly, but it's true - most of my clothes go together but some don't, and when I'm forced into a certain mode, I feel that way. I tend to stay in a mode for about four days before moving out, and I often hover between the drab-Paleface and the relaxed-Paleface.

And I don't dress that special to go out later. Maybe a clean shirt, and make sure I've shaved and trimmed the beard, but that's about it.

Do you buy clothes to match your wardrobe or as individual items?

I tend to buy individual items all in the same style. Ie: I see something I like, but this probably means it will go with almost everything else I own. Because I gravitate towards drab shades and universal outfits. Geek that I am.

Are your clothes related to your gender, do you wear things specifically because they're masculine or feminine?

Well, I tend not to wear feminine things. About as daring as I'll get is occasionally wearing a sarong in summer, simply because it's fucking practical. I used to threaten it to my friends and they'd pull abject faces. It's perfectly acceptable male dress as far as I'm concerned, but you know, it's not exactly typical.

Do you own clothes that you wear to be seen in?

Odd ones. The suits, certainly. I like my suits. They fit, they are comfortable, I think I look good in them, and that's a pretty rare thing. I feel good mainly because they fit so well, not just because they're styled nicely; cut is everything. And when I'm comfortable-but-smart... that's probably a good feeling. Other things? Not really. Clothes keep me warm, they cover me up.

Well, I'm not that primitive. I do like to kind-of look nice, but it's nice for me normally, not necessarily for others. If I'm vaguely co-ordinated and comfy, I feel good. I don't wear clothes to impress others, especially not women, because they just don't (on me); I do wear clothes to impress myself. And I do make something like an effort - I do have a funny aesthetic sense. But I just don't seem to be able to put a lot of that aesthetic sense to use on me.

Bah. Clothes.
 
 
The Strobe
21:54 / 05.12.02
Also:

we were trying to come up with species and genus for people (don't ask), me and a friend, and he suggested

Gappus Gappus (Gap Man)

for me. This is painful, mainly because I own no Gap clothing (I hate the Gap; it all looks like it should be vacuum packed). Sadly, I own much lesser Gap-knock-off clothing, and apparently it shows. But I don't like spending serious money on clothes. I saw a lovely hoodie recently, but I'm sure that it was a £35 quid sweatshirt that you paid another £20 to get the word "Carhartt" written on.

I'd write "Carhartt" on anything if I got paid £20 for it. Hence: I probably ought to occasionally look for really nice clothes. As it is, I tend to find OK-stuff that shows its roots. And apparently, this matters.
 
 
Linus Dunce
22:32 / 05.12.02
Do you feel that your clothes represent your emotions, your personality or your sexuality? Whether they are day to day wear or garments you put on specifically to go out in the evening?

Probably my personality more than anything, but occasionally I go out very scruffy when I'm in an I-don't-give-a-shit mood.

Do you buy clothes to match your wardrobe or as individual items?

I choose them as individual items, then consider whether or not I have anything to "go with" them. If not and I'm rich that day, I might buy them and something to suit, otherwise, back on the shelf they go.

Are your clothes related to your gender, do you wear things specifically because they're masculine or feminine?

Indirectly. I think I would be targeting too small an audience if I publickly wore the women's clothes I like.

Do you own clothes that you wear to be seen in?

Yes, when I'm tarted up in suit and tie. I have a green waistcoat and some shoes with heels stacked a little -- though I am 6 ft in my bare feet.
 
 
gravitybitch
01:00 / 06.12.02
Do you feel that your clothes represent your emotions, your personality or your sexuality? Whether they are day to day wear or garments you put on specifically to go out in the evening?

To some degree, yes: if I wake up feeling mischievious, I'll do genderfuck - sharp pressed shirt, mens' trousers, loafers... If I'm feeling cranky I'll wear something old and comfortable - the "I don't care what it looks like." Lately I've been exploring femme fatale roles so it's been snug sweaters and jewelry and makeup at work...

Do you buy clothes to match your wardrobe or as individual items?

A little bit of both. I hear the "buy me" whisper from individual pieces about as often as I hear the call from something that would fit in with other things I own.

Are your clothes related to your gender, do you wear things specifically because they're masculine or feminine?

Ummm... yes to all of the above? I own drop-dead gorgeous femmy clothes as well as boy-drag (and lots of skinny ties!!) that I will wear if I'm making a statement about gender (it's all drag for me). [I wore a shirt and tie to work several years running for Halloween, but I think most of the doctors I work with weren't too happy with the implication that their day-to-day wear was a costume.] This actually relates to the sexuality question - I'm bi and will dress "like a dyke" some of the time, jeans&T-shirt-neutral most of the time, femme babe occasionally, depending on where I'm going and who my "audience" is.

Do you own clothes that you wear to be seen in?

Absolutely! Vintage dresses, a marvelous swing coat, all of my boy-drag, pretty much any of the leather I own (there's a marvelous second-hand store that accepts peoples' clothing as donations, and gives the money from the sale of the clothing to the charities the donors specify; I've gotten almost all of my leather jackets there for around $35 each as well as other nifty things).
 
 
Tryphena Absent
13:37 / 06.12.02
Well actually I think you'll find that the casual clothes we wear now were invented, not for men, but for everyone. Certainly in British society men would wear suits pretty much all the time or some kind of clothing related to their work up until the 1950's. Utilitarian wear came hand in hand with erm... let's call it hyper-industrialisation and the increase in leisure time.

Jeans etc. became suitable for women with increased equality and the whole thing was really pushed by the feminist movements of the 1960s and 70s (and particularly the lesbian feminists who refused to wear 'womens' clothes or makeup). However if you take a look around you'll find that women's clothing is more decorative, more colourful, more extravagant even now. Evening wear is the most obvious example of this and if you want to change the way the world works then I guess _pin is the person you want to talk to because it sounds like he is taking the best attitude towards increased equality for men and women in clothing. In fact I would suggest that it is now impossible for women to change the way that clothes are worn at all (thanks a lot Shania Twain in that fucking suit, took away our last rebellion)!
 
 
grant
15:49 / 06.12.02
It's not like women always wore slacks, jeans, t-shirt. The appropriate attire was a skirt or a dress. Maybe pants were worn for "men's work" in the fields or something in olden golden days.

I'm thinking it probably has something to do with the empowerment of women. They adopted the model of power they saw, which was a man. Clothes make the man. Someone must have written some books or essays on this by now, surely.

Men had no good reason to wear skirts (except for the comfort--fellas, you don't know what you're missing sometimes). For what, to dress like a second class citizen? It would be laughable. It would be embarrassing. I think it's even against some scriptures.

Well, Janina covered a lot of this already.
Jeans used to be work pants - specifically designed for hard labor. Gradually, people (men first) realized that worn denim can be really comfortable.

And Paleface hit this before I could: sarongs are men's clothes in much of the world, and on hot days, I wear one around the house. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable walking the dog through the neighborhood in it (although I walk him in my boxers from time to time - the less underwear-looking ones, and generally after dark).
I'm sure Ganesh, ZoCher, Runce et al could also tell you plenty about non-ironic men-in-"skirts" as well.
Interesting, though, that sarongs and kilts both have codes for gender (the knots & folds in the one, the sporran & what - the cut of the front in the other).

=============

Perfect Tommy: Save $50 (or you can go with less). Set aside a Saturday (what're you doing tomorrow?). Decide what new-Tommy would wear (actually, I'd like to hear that here).
Then hit every thrift store in town. Lots of them close by 4, so start early. Don't pay more than $12 for anything (except maybe a jacket, if that's part of the look).
It'll be a start.
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
17:43 / 06.12.02
My clothes represent me in an odd way, with the exception of the office monkey suit I have to wear four days a week.

I always wear black jeans and a T-shirt that is of a mute colour, usually greyed green or blue. My coat is either black or grey and my skateshoes never have flashy crap on them. The whole idea is to make me look as indistinct and backgroundey as possible. In short I intend to be the other, other, other person in the street that you walked past today that you just didn't even notice.

The reason behind this is that when you're wielding a large, professional, slightly noisy camera, you really don't want anything else that draws attention to you.

I have been accused of having no fashion or clothes sense when the truth is that I do. I am very careful in the selection of my clothes but unlike the vast majority of sartorial consumers, I am trying to not be seen and make as little statement as humanly possible.

My clothes are intended for my gender but that is more of a product of intention and that my clothes simply aren't made for women. In fact at the moment I can't think of a single item of womens slothing that isn't designed to draw some kind of attention to them witht he exception of maternity clothing.
 
 
Mazarine
00:37 / 07.12.02
Do you feel that your clothes represent your emotions, your personality or your sexuality? Whether they are day to day wear or garments you put on specifically to go out in the evening?

Emotions: Yes. The majority of my clothes are scarlet red and black. Red is my extroverting color, black is my introverting color. I particularly like T-shirts with words or iconic shapes- my favorite shirt is a red t-shirt with a black vinyl star. While I wouldn't say
my feelings are black and white, or even red and white, I do think I am aware of them, and express them clearly when I want to.

Personality: Yes. Again, strong colors and iconic or single-word designs are my usual fare. I'll patch something up before I'll throw it away, and I refuse to spend much on clothes, because I prefer to spend money on comics, books, and going out to eat every now and again, thus in many ways my clothes reflect my financial priorities.

Sexuality: I have a mate who is very fond of my figure, and I do tend to buy clothes that accentuate it, but since I'm very settled and not at all looking, I don't really choose my outfits to attract men or women, but to be comfortable. However, I will wear (God, this sounds so eighties) my power color of red, in especially flattering cuts in an attempt to make other people, especially other women, uncomfortable or put them off guard/on the defensive. Trying to out-Alpha them I guess.

Do you buy clothes to match your wardrobe or as individual items?
I will occasionally buy an item that I know will go with another favorite article I own, but by and large I buy each item based on individual niftiness.

Are your clothes related to your gender, do you wear things specifically because they're masculine or feminine?

This is where it gets tricky for me. My wardrobe is divided between very cute fitted t-shirts and hip hugging jeans on the one hand, and then much looser clothes that disguide my figure almost entirely. While I am a predominantly heterosexual female with only a slight attraction to women in general, I do find myself trying to fulfil a role of chivalrous masculinity for many of my female and some of my male friends. I find that I tend to be perkier/bouncier/sillier/stranger/more sarcastic when I wear my clingy clothes, and more sedate, kinder, calmer and more even tempered when I wear my more figure disguising 'boyish' clothes. (Skater boy clothes as my sweetie calls them.)

Do you own clothes that you wear to be seen in?

Not exclusively. By and large, I like the way I look in all the clothes I've obtained for myself, and I do enjoy being noticable, but I won't buy something if it's uncomfortable, because I won't wear it.
 
 
Persephone
00:59 / 07.12.02
I do find myself trying to fulfil a role of chivalrous masculinity for many of my female and some of my male friends.

Hark, I hear a stage manager! See, that is so me too! I think I did start dressing this way because people needed me to look reassuring and competent. Aaaggghhhh, and now I can't... get out... of these... fucking... clothes!!!
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
15:54 / 07.12.02
_pin A new question (sorry for thread high-jack... ): Transvestives- do you wear clothes of the opposite gender for sexual fulfillment? Because my psych textbook says you do, but it's pissing me off.

If I did I'd damn well make sure I took the clothes off before things got too exciting, do you know how difficult it is to get cum out of a viscose/silk combo?

Ummm, I mean... Look! Over there! It's John Leslie, Michael Barrymore and Jonathan King hitting foxes with polo mallets!

Before I came out in any way to my parents I was reading a load of Penguin psychology books my Dad had bought in the late 60s/early 70s when he had a passing interest in the subject. I ended up going through the sections on homosexuality and transvesticism (in the 'Sexual Dysfunctions' section of course) underlining almost every other sentence and writing 'this is complete crap!' in the margin. I think the books have been donated to a jumble sale since then, which might be interesting for someone buying the book to find it has been exhaustively critiqued by someone...

Which is mostly because I wear nail varnish cos I like the look of it. It really doesn't make me feel sexy, but instead I just think it looks cute.

Ahh, but David Beckham has made it okay, though I think he is actually a transvestite who is coming out stage by stage to the homophobic media. I think several make-up companies are now targetting the 'clubber' market.

And I like the way it looks. Eye make up, on the other hand, is worn to feel sexy, but is that actually sexual gratification?

Nope. Why would wearing eye make-up be any different to wearing hand make-up?
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
16:10 / 07.12.02
Do you feel that your clothes represent your emotions, your personality or your sexuality? Whether they are day to day wear or garments you put on specifically to go out in the evening?

Dressing up to go out? What a novel idea. I forget the last time I did that. I don't think I ever wear anything to express my sexuality but more possibly my emotions or personality. For the first 18 or so years of my life I wore (as soon as I was old enough that I was allowed to choose my own clothes) school uniforms most of the time and then jeans and t-shirts the rest of the time. I didn't put much thought into choosing stuff, initially it was 'anything just so long as it's not red', then afterwards slowly tending towards the blacks and dark colours.
I never cared to develop any kind of fashion sense and to this day am almost completely illiterate in the area, tending towards blacks in my choices, believing Gaiman's Fashion Law (black goes with anything) or doing a White Stripes and wearing everything of the same colour.

Do you buy clothes to match your wardrobe or as individual items?
Mostly as individual items, but after buying something like that I might then go back and buy something later to complement it.

Are your clothes related to your gender, do you wear things specifically because they're masculine or feminine?

As mentioned in over threads, I have had a certain amount of success in cross-dressing at work, though I do go about it very quietly so often people don't notice. I don't wear dresses because of not liking my legs but that may change if I go back to Camden Market next month I certainly wouldn't not wear something that I liked the look off just because it was for the other gender. With the way shops are opening at the moment I think in twenty years time all men will become transvestites as there won't be any more men's clothes shops left.

Do you own clothes that you wear to be seen in?

Well, I like to pretend that I'm not just x-dressing to show off, but I guess it is just pretense. Yes I do, a few things, and a lovely big Richey Manic fur coat which I hardly wear due to it being a bit mangy and so chuffing heavy. But the majority of my clothes are functional really.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
18:49 / 07.12.02
Finding this fascinating, as it's something I think about alot/observe in other people....

Resisting the urge just to cut & paste Maz' answer on colours, and wearing red as a power colour... but that's me all over - red/extrovert + black/introvert + the odd bit of white for an attempt at balance/neutrality! Altho of course the logic falls down as black combined with red is hardly an introverted look, is it?


Do you feel that your clothes represent your emotions, your personality or your sexuality? Whether they are day to day wear or garments you put on specifically to go out in the evening?

Emotionally/personality-wise: god yes. Not always/often by choice, but my close friends (and occasionally counsellors ) have often remarked that they can tell how i'm feeling from what I'm wearing. Often the clothes choose me, I think. I have an enormous number of clothes, and a lot of options in terms of the image I project, and often I find myself wearing something I haven't worn for months... and it turns out to be appropriate to my mood/what's going on for me...

In addition, lots of people find it very easy to point to something that's 'very me' - and I think my personality is a part of how I dress, I definitely regard dressing as one of my means of creative expression... possibly my only one...

That said, I *will* sometimes choose to dress for a mood, or an emotion, or to dress to kick myself out of one. Eg wearing red or 'doing myself up' if i'm feeling down, both as a way of taking care of myself and as making myself feel better by looking good out in the world.

In terms of sexuality, I think it's much more conscious... and as others have said, I will 'dress to audience' at times... think this might be a common bi thing... My general look is quite scruffy Boy - a friend recently suggested I was doing 'Hoxton Boy' king drag - which I grudgingly admit is reasonably accurate - combats/baggy jeans/sweatshirts/hoodys/pointy hair... Do at times definitely want to disguise my physique, so as to look more androgynous... I do like to look queer...although I'm cautious about ending up dressing for approval/to someone else's standards of what constitutes a 'queer look'

But then over the last few years have become much more confident in my 'sexuality'- taking this to mean awareness of being a sexual being rather than one's sexual preference... Hence more overtly sexy clothes, eg the pvc/boots/flapper dress - none of which is at all androgynous! But is possibly still contextually queer - I doubt I look particularly 'girly' in this gear!

Do you buy clothes to match your wardrobe or as individual items?

Individual items. Totally. but alot of it's red/black/white/khaki, it tends to match anyway. All of my clothes shopping atm is through charity shops, so trying to match things is pointless!

Are your clothes related to your gender, do you wear things specifically because they're masculine or feminine?

Hmm. I don't wear them to follow a set image of masculinity or femininity, or to buy into these roles, i don't think. But I am usually aware of the gendered image I'm presenting with a particular outfit. And that this varies quite alot. I think I very rarely look or present as very feminine *or* very masculine, and tend to end up with (and sometimes decide on) something that's somewhere in the middle/genderfucky...

Do you own clothes that you wear to be seen in?

Yes. If i'm honest, most of 'em! But especially I have some pretty o.t.t. show-stoppy stuff - PVC Skirt/jeans, knee boots, evening suits, tails, flapper dress... to the point that when I don't want to be seen, i find it hard to find inconspicuous stuff (will probably go for jeans/combats and a hoody...but even these clothes are ones with thought put into them...god, i'm just an incurable clotheshorse!)

I'll often deny it, but I do love it when people come up to me and ask me where I got something, which seems to happen reasonably often... And this in a town full of clotheshorses

another thing I've become aware of over the last few years is how my shape has played a part in all this - I'm reasonably slim, and find it pretty easy to find flattering and interesting clothes in all sorts of styles (the one thing that's tricky is men's suits) so clothes shopping (unless under duress: for work/wedding clothes) has usually been an enjoyable experience.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
18:55 / 07.12.02
any chance of *you* answering the questions, Janina?
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
19:10 / 07.12.02
oh and Kit-Kat, muffs rool - you've just reminded me that I bought one in a sale in the middle of the summer and it's about to come into it's own. - it's v.cool - very gothy, I guess, made of black/purple fabric with silver pvc piping - the neck strap is chain, and to finish it off, it even has a matching purse.

Beat that!
 
 
_pin
19:23 / 07.12.02
And I like the way it looks. Eye make up, on the other hand, is worn to feel sexy, but is that actually sexual gratification?

Nope. Why would wearing eye make-up be any different to wearing hand make-up?

Intent. I'm not saying there is a fundamental difference in the two acts, but there is for me. My nail varnish is worn because it is pale blue and sparkly and cute, while my eye make up is worn because I think it looks sexy. I don't consider this to be sexual gratification- am I just in denial about my wonderful new masturbation technique, or is my psychology textbook blowing it all out of it's arse?

(also- why is it that, when studying sexuality in psychology, everyone's gay friends get wheeled out? It's very funny. I think I might start saying how "some of my best friends are gay" soon, even tho it's a lie)
 
  

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