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'Queterosexuality' in the Voice

 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
14:37 / 08.08.01
How Gay Men Are Remodeling Regular Guys quote:
Week of August 8 - 14, 2001

Post-Straight
by Chris Nutter

n the short-lived CBS sitcom Some of My Best Friends, a straight bridge-and-tunnel guy mistakes "GWM" for Guy With Money in a roommate ad and unwittingly moves in with a gay man. When the straight guy realizes that the Barbra poster on the wall doesn't mean his roommate is Jewish, he goes into shock. But by the second episode, he's learned to play gay, laugh out loud at the femme friend's campy jokes, and even prance around in silky, butt-hugging workout pants.

Although it's hardly realistic about the homo savvy of Italian guys from Brooklyn, this new sitcom demonstrates that the gay makeover of the straight American male has reached prime time. But this process has been evident for years in big cities where gay men are rewriting the rules of what it takes to be the ideal man. Glossy magazines have noticed that straight men are looking more gay, but the influence is more than a matter of working out, waxing, and wearing Prada. It involves a profound change in consciousness, reflected in everything from greeting gay buddies with a kiss to treating women the way other women—and most gay men—do.

It's not like every Joe is turning mo. But in the trendier zones of New York, L.A., Miami, and Montreal, the gay sensibility is rubbing off on receptive straights. It should be noted that this is mostly a white and Latino phenomenon. But in those circles, a new male identity is brunching toward B-Bar to be born. Call it post-straight.

New Jersey native Joe Carrino, 24, moved to New York two years ago and got a job as a trainer at the Lafayette Street Crunch. He'd had little exposure to Manhattan gym society, so he just assumed that all his male clients were straight. "As a selling point, I would mention what girls think of guys' bodies," he recalls. "Then I realized that didn't do it for them."

By losing some weight and adding little details to his wardrobe, not only did he pass for gay, but he also encouraged the idea when it was to his advantage.

It wasn't just that his favorite clients turned out to be gay. Carrino realized that he liked hanging out with these guys, kicking it to Beige at Bowery Bar, Sunday mornings at Twilo, and dinner at Cafeteria. He soon developed a knack for telling which gay parties attracted women and which drew hundreds of sweaty, half-naked men. He especially liked "sticking out" in mixed company.

Though girls were much easier to pick up in gay clubs—since he had little competition there—Carrino's approach to women changed nonetheless. "Girls love gay guys," he says. "Why is that? Because gay guys understand them. A girl will always talk to a gay guy. So I listen to women. I understand their emotions." Being a straight man in gay circles taught Carrino something about what it feels like to be on the other end of the male gaze. He liked the attention—up to a point—but some guys wouldn't take no for an answer. "Like women getting harassed by men: I know how that is now."

Another perk that came with Carrino's social life was networking in gay professional circles. Never more than a gaze away were people he could never meet as a regular guy from Jersey: casting agents, fashion directors, famous photographers, music executives. He learned a valuable lesson about gay life: "It's very easy to move up if you're good-looking." When last heard from, Carrino was working on Wall Street.

By losing some weight and adding little details to his wardrobe—sneakers bought on lower Broadway, Dolce & Gabbana tank tops—not only did he pass for gay, but he also encouraged the idea when it was to his advantage. "One time I went to the VIP door at a club, and the doorman challenged me to kiss one of my friends to prove I was gay," Carrino recalls. "I was like, oh shit, but I wanted to get inside, so I did."

How far does the appropriation go? Carrino says he doesn't fool around, but many gay men would agree with trainer Bryant Stiney: "You never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever see a straight guy in the gay scene who hasn't done something. Never!" Some post-straight men interviewed for this piece admit to being "curious." A few will even say they've "tried it," only to discover that they had "no idea what to do with a dick," as one straight party boy put it.

Though the adventure often stops at the bedroom door (or bathroom stall), these men see gays as people to be emulated rather than shunned. And they no longer accept their straightness exactly as it was handed to them. It's not their sexuality that post-straight men have come to question, but the identity that goes with it. They are experiencing gay liberation—without the gay part.

This shift in attitude has also occurred in women who move in mixed circles—and it extends to sexual values. Women in general have learned to admire men's booties, but those who hang with gay men will step it up. "Where do you think I learned about eating ass?" says one straight female trainer at a mixed gym. The fact that straight men like her to do that is just as revealing.

The post-straight man has always existed on the fringes of macho, but as a type he was born in the 1970s disco scene. It was there—on the first real gay turf—that the shift in power and status between straights and gays first took place. The playing field didn't just even out at discos; gay men actually had the home court advantage. This put straight men who wanted to crash the party in the position of having to make themselves presentable to gay men. That meant acting like you're not on top, something few straight men in those days were willing to do.

Those who got past the doorman soon flipped their mental format. "You'd see a whole gamut of dramatic changes," recalls promoter John Blair, "from thinking it was cool to hang with gay people to seeing them learn to be physical with one another in a nonsexual, loving way." Suddenly straight men were given permission to explore a new side of themselves, and women were definitely interested. By the '80s, the socially gay straight man had become a staple of the club and party scene.

Thirty-two-year-old Robbie Ammons is a proud product of that milieu. Growing up in Charlotte, North Carolina, Ammons didn't know any gay people and had only vague images of "big hairy guys raping little kids and doing perverted things in back rooms." But when his best friend at Queens College came out to him, he took Ammons out to the original Sound Factory, where Ammons finally met men on his wavelength. "I never fit into the world of macho men, and what I loved about the gay scene was its openness, its flair, its flash and vanity—its acceptance that you can be a man but still have characteristics that are considered feminine."

The Ammonses: Like many post-straights, Ammons grew up feeling alienated from the men around him, but with gays he found "true friendship."

Instead of being threatened by sexual attention, Ammons ate it up. "I'm somewhat vain, I'll admit that," he says. "And I got a lot of attention at the gay clubs, say more than if I went to a straight bar. I loved it." Like many post-straights, Ammons grew up feeling alienated from the men around him, but with gays he found "the perfect fit." For the first time, he experienced "true friendship. I could talk about anything." But Ammons didn't connect with any old gay guys. The men he courted were "beautiful, sharp, smart, and sensitive. They were elite."

Ammons proceeded to become a regular in gay clubs. He called men bitch—as a term of endearment—altered his style from "T-shirts and jeans to leather pants and tight black T-shirts," went to circuit parties with his gay buddies, and even watched gay porn with them for a laugh. He realized that women on the scene were not only plentiful but eager to meet someone like himself: "a gay guy who's straight."

A powerful draw at this time was dance music and the "DJ as God" phenomenon. This mystique drew straight men like 32-year-old Victor Calderone, who is now a preeminent DJ in gay club life. What brought him from butch Bensonhurst to the ultimate '80s gay club, the Saint, was the music and the men who mixed it. "I was looking up to these DJs and they were gay," Calderone remembers. "That's where the whole thing shifted for me."

Calderone went on to create what he calls "a totally gay lifestyle": an apartment on Christopher Street, summers on Fire Island, "wearing labels," and working out. But Calderone got more from his immersion in gay life than fame and friends. He also found a wife.

The women he met at gay clubs were far different from the ancient stereotype of the "fag hag." They were bombshells—that's what their gay male friends were looking for in a female companion. (Who do you think created the supermodel?) Like many post-straight men, these women often came from working-class backgrounds. They were drawn to gay life in part because it offered access to upward mobility. At the same time, they were looking for men who didn't fit the stereotype of the working-class guy—especially when it came to r-e-s-p-e-c-t.

"I could never have been with a guy who didn't accept my lifestyle," says Christina Visca, who introduced her boyfriend, Rudy, to her entirely gay social life. "He grew up in Washington Heights, so being around gay people he became more polished and less judgmental. He could hang with his homeboys or go with the gay boys and feel comfortable either way." Rudy and Christina went on to become a socially gay straight couple—sharing a life that had the excitement of their single days without the risk of sexual competition. "It's a lot less stressful in gay settings," says Rudy. "You don't have to worry about somebody picking the other up."

As straight guys outside the gay loop copped on to the sexual success of their post-straight friends, others entered the scene, turning the art of playing gay into a science for getting laid. "It's not like we're competing with gay guys, but in a sense we are because they've raised the bar," says 27-year-old art director Dave Schlow. "They look good, they dress well, and they know how to relate. So women are like: Why can't you be more like my gay friend?"

But according to 31-year-old Bronx native and Chelsea resident Nedelyn Acevedo, women such as herself who have lots of close gay relationships can see through the camouflage. "I see guys all pumped up and wearing aviators and so down with the fashion just to get girls," she says, pointing out that they've picked up the wrong gay qualities. She finds their "fake fagging" laughable—like when she entered a straight guy's bathroom and noticed "the towels perfectly placed on the bar, and a copy of Italian Marie Claire. Italian Marie Claire," she giggles. "I'm not turned on by that. I'm looking for someone who will listen to me."

But women are only part of the reason some straight men learn to play gay. As the gay scene moved from circuit parties and clubs to condos and dog runs, it exponentially increased the opportunities for straights to see and be seen with gays. Call it the Chelsea effect.

Along with this mix has come a boom in gay-identified businesses. Currently the Gayellow Pages lists 288 entries in the New York area that identify as "gay owned," 187 "gay friendly," and 198 specifying a primarily gay clientele—meaning everything from laundromats to lawyers' offices with rainbow flags on display. This has opened up a new job market for straight men who know how to play gay. At present, good-looking men are at a premium in this market—and cute straight boys definitely need apply. These guys have a lock on the always popular gay fantasy of the straight sex-object; plus their bosses never have to worry about them getting into a spat with a boyfriend across the bar.

According to promoter John Blair (who notes that eight of 10 applications for jobs at his new gay bar, xl, were straight), economics is now the primary motivation for playing gay. "I hired a waiter from Boise who had never known a gay person, and all of a sudden he knew the vernacular," Blair says. "Did he enjoy it? Yes. Was he straight? Absolutely. But the reason he was there was because the most money for him was at a gay restaurant."

This is de rigueur at gay gyms—the best place for straight trainers to find devoted disciples—and gay bars, which have become famous in Jersey and the outer boroughs as venues where an in-shape guy can make $500 a night and get worshiped while he's at it.

Twenty-eight-year-old Chris Cilione grew up in Westchester County, "completely free of gay influences," as he notes. But he and his high school friends, raised in divorced households and parented primarily by their mothers, were different from other boys to begin with. "We weren't the baseball hat wearing, same pair of jeans all week long, only talk to your girlfriends for sex type of guys," he says. "There was a friendship value to our interactions with girls early on. We were very in tune with being around women." He's also observed that this is a common theme among straight men he knows in the salon industry. "You can see that a powerful early influence of the mother has a lot to do with going to work in gay environments." But unlike black-styled white guys—better known as wiggahs—post-straight men can be guilty by association. So life for these guys doesn't come without its drama. No matter how gay-friendly they are, there is a fine line between being perceived as having gay qualities and being thought of as gay.

For men like Calderone, the biggest fear is being regarded as they saw gay men in earlier days. Calderone recalls being afraid the first time he had his eyebrows waxed seven years ago (though he points out that all the goombahs get their brows done now), and Cilione admits to similar fears. He says he went into the Fifth Avenue salon business for the money and the chance to work around women. He was irritated by the "stereotypical queens," but femmey attributes rubbed off nonetheless—a fact he realized recently while sitting on a couch at a very heterosexual house party in a ski resort. "I was holding my beer and cigarette in what I would say is just refined—legs crossed, but in a gentlemanly way. Then I realized that everybody else was sitting there with their legs spread open and half a hand down their pants, kind of an Al Bundy thing, and I looked like a big fag."

But what qualifies as "faggy" has changed. Spook the new Sound Factory. On any given Sunday morning, hundreds of bare-chested and pumped-up straight men with plucked eyebrows and shaved chests move about in tight black pants that maximize the shape of their butts. Many men dance together, some in tight group embraces, while others wave their hands in the air (a definite violation of the rule that straight men must dance with their hands down). "Eight years ago, you would never see two straight kids with their shirts off dancing together, singing like a bunch of girls," says Sound Factory DJ Jonathan Peters. "And you should see underwear night."

In many ways, post-straight is the mirror image of post-gay. The common idea is to move beyond the expectations that come with sexual identity. Slowly but surely, both gay and straight men are being "resocialized," says disco historian Peter Braunstein, who considers himself post-straight. "It means that you can wake up and say, 'Today, I'm Diana Ross in Mahogany.' "

Going both ways now goes both ways. Just visit the Jersey Shore: "It's the straight guys with the piercings and the bodies of death who are wearing Speedos, while the gay guys are more covered up in baggy surfer shorts," says promoter Mark Nelson. Welcome to the rules of the game: "It's cool to act gay if you're straight, and straight if you're gay."
 
 
grant
14:52 / 08.08.01
Interesting.
"Passing" was quite the concept in some ethnic lit theory classes I took, but that was racial. I imagine it's a bit easier in some ways with orientation, but probably tougher in others.
The times *are* a changing, aren't they.
 
 
Ierne
16:47 / 08.08.01
It would be interesting to see if there's a rise in incidents where "post-straights" get bashed by fellow staights who assumed they were gay. That might end the "post-staight" honeymoon dead quick.
 
 
Jack Fear
17:06 / 08.08.01
I used to work at a women's college, and--presumably because I was soft-spoken, a good listener, and fond of paisley shirts--many of the students assumed I was gay until informed otherwise.

Under those circumstances, I found it absurdly flattering: but, as Ierne points out, if I were taking a boot to the ribs over the misunderstanding, I might not think so.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
17:11 / 08.08.01
Well, I think it was very important that the writer stressed that this sort of thing is mostly just happening in major cities with large homosexual populations... I think that those are likely the only places in the US where this would be a tolerated thing.

I can't help but feel that in many ways this is a good thing, a progression in society where macho isn't the only interpretation of the idea of masculinity. I in some ways can identify myself as a straight man who could be considered "queterosexual", but maybe not...I think that's just because I don't act like a macho asshole in public, and I don't relate to normal straight men at all, mostly just women and gay men.

I would be more than a little concerned if this trend towards straight males behaving like gay males got really out of control and we were somehow left with a generation of swishy vain men, regardless of sexual orientation. I think that would be a very bad thing for society...It would mean that the decades of evil marketing that has been used to brainwash the women of the western world would finally have suceeded in doing the same to the men, and though things are already headed in that direction, I'd like to believe that not all men will fall for it so soon. A lot of the traits that Voice article cites as things straight men have taken from the homosexual community are really just things they took from the straight women.
These are mostly consumer and lifestyle issues...things based on money, class, and economics.

[ 08-08-2001: Message edited by: Flux = Rad ]
 
 
Ethan Hawke
17:25 / 08.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Flux = Rad:
A lot of the traits that Voice article cites as things straight men have taken from the homosexual community are really just things they took from the straight women.
These are mostly consumer and lifestyle issues...things based on money, class, and economics.

[ 08-08-2001: Message edited by: Flux = Rad ]


Good call, Senor Flux. The articles makes homosexuality seem more like a brand rather than a preference for who you hump.The writer clearly stresses the economic reasons a straight guy would want to act gay.

So, are those darn homosexuals turning the straight men of New Jersey and Staten Island into a sub-altern colonoized people, who toil for scraps in the Sweat Shops also known as gay dance clubs?

 
 
Ierne
18:07 / 08.08.01
I would be more than a little concerned if this trend towards straight males behaving like gay males got really out of control and we were somehow left with a generation of swishy vain men... – Flux = Rad

What concerns me is that this article keeps pushing the stereotype of the homosexual man as swishy and vain.
 
 
Molly Shortcake
19:53 / 08.08.01
And here's the opinion of the rest of America: Ohmygod, weird dood wit color!! BTW 2 out of 3 of these guys aren't gay.

[ 08-08-2001: Message edited by: Ice Honkey ]
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
20:40 / 08.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Ierne:

What concerns me is that this article keeps pushing the stereotype of the homosexual man as swishy and vain.


Right on. If I didn't know better, and somebody told me that every gay man on earth was a vain body fascist obsessed with consumerism, social status, and all things superficial; I'd probably come to the conclusion "gay men are bastards".

It's funny. In that article, a lot of those sleazy heteros faking a gay lifestyle claim to be in it more or less to trick straight women. There's a lot of talk about being communicative and open to emotions and all that, but it sounds utterly devoid of love, caring, actual human relationships beyond superficial urban bullshitting and posing.
 
 
Ierne
12:53 / 09.08.01
From Ice Honkey's "No fags!" link:

The fag turned around and revealed itself to be my FORMER best friend. I gasped and photographed him quickly so I could show his sickness to everyone at our school the next day. I'm ashamed to admit I almost miss him sometimes. But I miss the GOOD, heterosexual days. When we used to wrestle and laugh and take the bus to a biker bar full of men like us (the heterosexual us!). Men dressed in cowboy hats and leather chaps. Men who knew what it was to be real men. Not this fag sweater crap.

HAW HAW HAW!!!
I bet you miss him... BITCH!!!
 
 
Ierne
13:07 / 09.08.01
...a lot of those sleazy heteros faking a gay lifestyle claim to be in it more or less to trick straight women. There's a lot of talk about being communicative and open to emotions and all that, but it sounds utterly devoid of love, caring, actual human relationships beyond superficial urban bullshitting and posing. – Flux = Rad

But according to 31-year-old Bronx native and Chelsea resident Nedelyn Acevedo, women such as herself who have lots of close gay relationships can see through the camouflage. "I see guys all pumped up and wearing aviators and so down with the fashion just to get girls," she says, pointing out that they've picked up the wrong gay qualities. She finds their "fake fagging" laughable—like when she entered a straight guy's bathroom and noticed "the towels perfectly placed on the bar, and a copy of Italian Marie Claire. Italian Marie Claire," she giggles. "I'm not turned on by that. I'm looking for someone who will listen to me." – from the article

Flux brings up yet another annoying stereotype about male homosexuality above – "utterly devoid of love, caring, actual human relationships beyond superficial urban bullshitting and posing." This of course is NOT TRUE for all gay men, and the women who hang with gay men (like Nedelyn Acevedo) are very aware of that.

"post-straight"? Don't think so! More like "Same old Shit" to me.
 
 
Ganesh
15:07 / 12.08.01
Mark Simpson's been banging on about the 'gaying of society' for years, and links it to the relatively recent consumerist/advertising trend for objectifying the idealised male body (in a way utterly familiar to women) - leading to a shift in the consensus view of what constitutes 'masculinity'. Gone are the pipes and Brylcreem of yore; instead, we have a melange of 'bigorexia' and grooming products. 'The best a man can get'.

While boundary-blurring is all well and good, I'm not sure that it is entirely beneficial. There's a huge focus on gay-as-lifestyle - a stereotypical lifestyle which, unsurprisingly, emphasises consumerism over actual sex. More and more, 'gay' is defined by what we wear rather than who we sleep with.

I dunno. I've always had a somewhat ambivalent relationship with The (Vain, Swishy) Gay Stereotype: I despise it while reserving the right to slip in and out of it when it suits my purposes. Perhaps 'straight' men are merely claiming the same 'right'?
 
 
Tom Coates
20:36 / 12.08.01
I think I'm beginning to feel more like an emasculated straight man than a thrusting gay one. Which is weird. Anyone who's ever met me knows that I'm not particularly glamourous, hard-bodied, arrogant, 'you go girl'ish etc. Beginning to wish I was. People seem to find that much easier to assimilate than scruffy and neurotic.
 
 
Ganesh
20:39 / 12.08.01
I know what you mean. I think a lot depends whether you think 'assimilation' is a bad word or not...
 
 
Ganesh
20:41 / 12.08.01
(Actually, I was thinking of linking this to Big Brother and starting a whole new 'Gay Masculinity' thread.)
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
17:50 / 13.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Ganesh:


While boundary-blurring is all well and good, I'm not sure that it is entirely beneficial. There's a huge focus on gay-as-lifestyle - a stereotypical lifestyle which, unsurprisingly, emphasises consumerism over actual sex. More and more, 'gay' is defined by what we wear rather than who we sleep with.


It's sort of ironic that it seems in contemporary culture, the sort of gay lifestyle that is embraced by the culture at large is the swishy extreme foppishness...one would logically assume that the more 'normal' 'straight-behaving' 'rugged' men would find it easily to assimilate for some reason. I think that there's a few obvious reasons for why the 'swishy' type is somehow more acceptable in this odd way... I think for many straight people, it's what they expect from homosexuals, and perhaps for lots of homosexuals, it's perceived as the way yr supposed to act if that is yr orientation.... this veers off topic, but has anyone ever done a linguistic study as to why homosexual men are disproportionately predisposed to adopt a lisp and a certain cadence in the way they speak? That's such a strange learned characteristic...is it always an affection? Why do some people embrace it and others do not?

Of course, there's the fact that it's very easy to market products and services to those who are affluent, vain, and obsessed with aesthetics, as many men in the 'swishy' camp are wont to be. Economics is a major force in the mainstreaming of homosexuality...I wonder how many people saw that coming.

But still, I think the mainstreaming has more to do with the general social acceptance that comes from 'hey, I don't care what you do in yr spare time so long as you buy my products' than any sort of altruistic live and let live idealism.

[ 13-08-2001: Message edited by: Flux = Rad ]
 
 
jamison
23:05 / 05.01.02
I just came out two months ago (two months ago today actually). I don't really fit the "gay" lifestyle stereotype discussed here, and I was very scared about people lumping me into that kind of stereotype.

The eye openner for me was when I came out to one of my friends roommates. He was the last one in the house I told because he was intimidating: a 20 year old, 6'2", 240 pound, Santa Cruz native, skater punk. He then told me he was bisexual, the last thing on earth I ever expected to hear.

That pretty much took care of me ever trying to stereotype gay behaviour.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:03 / 06.01.02
Flux, if you don't stop writing "affection", when you mean "affectation", I am going to make you gay.

Anyone else noticed how so many queers lisp, or is it just Flux? How about mincing?

And can straight men in gay circles be identified by their fondness for Gary Busey fan fiction? I think we should be told.

[ 07-01-2002: Message edited by: The Haus under the Ocean ]
 
 
inteceptor
22:17 / 06.01.02
Im fixing a hole where the rain gets in, it stops my mind from wandering. . .
I wrote a post for this topic but the intenet hates me. .im a queen & i own the soundsystem so BE NICE!
luvs Inteceptor
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:30 / 07.01.02
quote:Originally posted by The Haus under the Ocean:
Flux, if you don't stop writing "affection", when you mean "affectation", I am going to make you gay.
]


oh christ... that is bad. I don't normally make that mistake. I wrote all my posts in this thread MONTHS ago, but I do know I was typing them quickly between classes in a computer lab, so I wasn't proofreading them or anything...

sorry.
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
18:08 / 07.01.02
You know, with all that has changed in society while I've been growing up, it's taken a fair while and a lot of self-honesty to realise who I am and be able to be open about myself.

Do I now need to learn to how to act gay and develop a sense of shiny fashion to get ahead in life?

I'm pretty sure they never taught me that in life-skills at school.

Well if the gay community doesn't want to employ me because I won't act like them then so be it, I'll stick to fleecing the straights.

And I don't want to hear another gay getting preachy abnout tolerance either.

--------------------------

Before anyone gets on some high horse, this post may not all be serious. High horsing will result in ridicule, unless of course that's some gay term I don't know about, in which case I fully respect your lifestyle choice.
 
 
Ierne
18:49 / 07.01.02
Before anyone gets on some high horse, this post may not all be serious. – The Puppet King/potus

Well, I had a hard time taking the article seriously, so don't fret.
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
20:23 / 07.01.02
On subjects like this I like to cover my ass.
 
  
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