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Underground > Policy & Help >

More Moderators Needed?

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21:17 / 22.11.02

It's just that it seems to take a long time for any changes I initiate in Conversation posts (my own, generally) to get seconded and appear on site. I'm seconding moderation changes left and right, but alas, am out in the cold on this one.

Are the other Convo mods still popping in and doing anything?

18:13 / 23.11.02

I find it quite strange that we can't edit our own posts anyway. Is there a technical reason for this?

18:53 / 23.11.02

It's essentially an anti-troll/pro-etiquette measure. There were problems in the past with people saying one thing, starting massive arguments, then editing prior posts to make it seem like they said other things, sort of reframing opponents to make them look like monkeys.

Monkeys are cute and all, though.

That was back when this was a UBB-based board. Today's moderation system is built right into the board architecture, though, so I don't think there'll be a change in it any time soon.

19:36 / 23.11.02

It is a bit of an unfortunate combination, though. You can't edit your own posts to add something you forgot or change a mistake; you have to wait for a moderator, and they're probably not going to be around fast enough to do that before someone else reads your post and says "you wanker you're completely wrong".

On the other hand, if you make another post correcting the former, you lose one more post on that day.

I suppose the solution is to take a lot of time making sure your post is exactly what you want it to be, but while that sounds great...

1. a long post necessarily has less and less to do with what people have said recently, if it's a relatively well-frequented thread, since while you're composing it someone else will probably have posted and you can't spend all your time reloading and re-editing. It's therefore more likely to be a manifesto or a reply to something someone said on the last page;

2. some of us when we're at work don't have the time to write huge long posts, even if we disguise it as a word document or highly important email;

3. some of us actually favour a short frequent post / discursive style rather than a long post / essay style.

Actually, I don't seem to be commenting on post editing, but post limits. Again. But if we're still determined to have post limits then more mods would help.

19:47 / 23.11.02

Is this only a problem in Conversation? It's only there that I've noticed my requsets taking a while to go through, but then I don't post to every forum on the board.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

10:37 / 24.11.02

I think a lot of it IS to do with having to think before you type- not necessarily a long post, just not a stupid one. And I think the majority of people on here will be likely to accept that you just fucked up, and you're not irredeemably a wanker, if you later explain yourself.

Yeah, I find it kind of a bind, but I think it makes sense. Kind of like the "posting limit" thing (though I didn't like that so much)- your words are valuable. Don't spend 'em all at once without making sure you're getting a good deal. Or something.

17:08 / 24.11.02

I have so little to do in Books that I'd be quite happy to help out in the Conversation.

Are moderators still meant to be thinking up new and exciting topics for their fora? I have been drawing a complete blank with Books since the start of term (not enough time to read).

Matthew Fluxington

19:31 / 24.11.02

I am fully willing to take up moderator duties in Conversation, TV/Film, and most especially Comics, which is a forum in DESPERATE need of more (and better) moderators.

10:47 / 25.11.02

I'm still doing Conversation, and quite a lot - a good ten changes a day, I'd say. If I don't post much on Barbelith, I still check in a couple of times a day to do mod changes.

15:24 / 25.11.02

Yeah, the vast majority of changes I get are Conversation posts - which is fine, except when they're mine, in which case I don't get them.

Sax, you're a big cutie.

ONLY NICE THINGS

16:05 / 25.11.02

The best answer would probably be the creation of a few more administrators - people able to vote on any existing moderation request in any forum, but without the responsibility of looking after fora, starting interesting discussions and so on. I think we have two at the moment - another couple of regular visitors with estblished form on Barbelith, existing moderator status and a willingness to take up what is in effect a rubber stamp to speed up other people's moderation requests would probably expedite matters no end.

16:31 / 25.11.02

My web-fu may be weak here, but would it simply not be easier to put a time limit on alterations - a day or so?

If this is possible, I'd much prefer it to the mod approval system. I hate seeing my own spelling mistakes onscreen, laughing at me.

I can see weaknesses in this imaginary system, though.

22:57 / 25.11.02

As an example of this, the latest vbulletin allows you to edit posts within a short period of time - a minute or something - without it putting an "edited at..." bit at the bottom. This gives you the chance to fix those "oh shit I put is instead of isn't" errors.

It works well but all the vbulletin implementations I've seen allow editing of posts by posters anyway. I can think it would also be a bit of a faff to recode the response script on a time basis. I don't know PHP so I couldn't say exactly how much of a faff.

09:49 / 26.11.02

Is there anyone prepared to start compiling all the suggestions for changes to the board that have been made through the Policy since we launched this version of the site? I'm stupidly busy at the moment but would really like to have a document that I can work through and formulate a good strategy from... If no one has time, I'll have a stab at it this weekend...

12:53 / 26.11.02

I think you need to have help files on here that will explain how to post links, the fact that you can't edit your own posts, how to request post moderations etc etc. and also perhaps an explanation on the role of moderators.

Judging from what I've read, it appears the moderators are charged with both moderating and also thinking up interesting topics and posts. I've actually not visited any other messageboard where this is policy and it seems uneccessary with so many active posters on Barbelith. IMHO moderation should be an impartial role used to tackle genuine troll postings, respond to requests for post changes and act whenever there's a possible flame war breaking out.

It might also help if we could tell who the moderators are, perhaps when they post, because it isn't very clear at the moment.

Check out Ikonboard as an alternative messageboard which you might want to nick some ideas from.

13:08 / 26.11.02

I think I can give a try, Tom.

15:43 / 26.11.02

arcboi - The Moderators for each forum are displayed at the top of each forum page. ie: At the top of The Gathering page (call it The Gathering index if you like) I am listed up there with Haus and Rage and Jack the Bodiless (or whatever he is currently called) as moderators of the forum. And this is repeated at the top of every forum.

15:53 / 26.11.02

Judging from what I've read, it appears the moderators are charged with both moderating and also thinking up interesting topics and posts.

I don't think that's part of the job description--it just works out that way. makes sense, really--if you're devoting the time and energy to mod the board, then you've likely got some interesting ideas re: what to do with/on it...

Matthew Fluxington

16:43 / 26.11.02

IMHO moderation should be an impartial role used to tackle genuine troll postings, respond to requests for post changes and act whenever there's a possible flame war breaking out.

Well, there's more to it than that. Moderators also need to keep the forums tidy by making sure that thread titles are appropriate and manageable, that abstracts exist for the threads, that html foibles are fixed, and opting to move threads to more appropriate forums. Anal retentive stuff like that.

17:07 / 26.11.02

Flux: Absolutely. I was just simplfying things.

Angel: I'm aware that the moderators are flagged up on the forums, but it might help if this could also be flagged up in posts. I just feel that some comments expressed in a post can take a different angle if they come from a moderator.

17:16 / 26.11.02

Oh, I don't doubt they would.
I just don't know if that would be a good thing, is all.

To invent a tortured metaphor, Barbelith mods are sort of a civilian militia, rather than a professional, standing army. They're a part of our society, rather than standing on its fringes.

On the other hand, I will say that Haus's phrase moderator hat--"If I may put on my moderator hat for a moment..."--is a useful way to distinguish those moments when a moderator is speaking with The Voice Of Authority from those moments when s/he is just expressing hir own opinion, equal in weight to anyone else's.

20:37 / 26.11.02

Better yet than the time period thing, what if you can only alter your post before anyone else posts? This prevents any trickery.

The Return Of Rothkoid

21:32 / 26.11.02

I'll do some Conversation stuff if there's a need, too.

uncle retrospective

22:33 / 26.11.02

I can help in comics, I seem to spend most of my time there any way and the Music is kinda quite at the moment.

22:50 / 26.11.02

Following Uncle's suggestion, I checked the mods in 'Comics' - who the fuck is Steve Block? I've not seen HKCSR about much recently, either.

I'd nominate Sypha Nadon and/or Yawn, 'cos they do great posts, constantly, and I like them.

23:06 / 26.11.02

Angel: I'm aware that the moderators are flagged up on the forums, but it might help if this could also be flagged up in posts.

I'd feel deeply uncomfortable about this, mainly for the reasons Jack provides.

Better yet than the time period thing, what if you can only alter your post before anyone else posts? This prevents any trickery.

Put it like this: you want to edit one of your posts to include a fair amount of stuff that you missed out first time around. Nobody else has posted a reply, so you're free to do so. You whack your changes in, taking a couple of minutes to write the new stuff and check it through for typos. You hit 'Submit' and get the action refused because somebody else has posted while you've been fiddling about.

Nah.

ONLY NICE THINGS

10:39 / 27.11.02

I think Tom has said elsewhere that moderators should try to introduce interesting topics, or move discussions along and introduce new possible ideas. Obviously this is more important in the quieter areas, like Books, Art and the Head Shop. So, I like to keep things moving in the Head Shop when it seems useful to do so, but tend to let the Gathering and the Creation largely regulate themselves, and mainly just tidy up HTML, answer moderation requests, and that sort of thing. I do think the phrase "moderator hat", when you are giving an opinion on how you feel, as a moderator rather than an individual, but not in a "this is the voice of authority" way, more a "this is the voice of experience, with a set of suggestions, some unofficially developed in the policy, others grown out of interacting with this forum for a long time" way.

I'm up for Conversation (and, if necessary, anything else, really), btw, as long as nobody expects me to read every thread...

14:15 / 27.11.02

Ooh, you are naughty.

10:28 / 28.11.02

Put it like this: you want to edit one of your posts to include a fair amount of stuff that you missed out first time around. Nobody else has posted a reply, so you're free to do so. You whack your changes in, taking a couple of minutes to write the new stuff and check it through for typos. You hit 'Submit' and get the action refused because somebody else has posted while you've been fiddling about.

Nah.

How about a mod. request thereafter, then? I've no idea how viable this is.

11:37 / 28.11.02

Will also raise my hand; (as I'm something of a workshy fop with an internet connection I have time to take down to the woods and show puppies to at present) if more moderators/administrators are needed am more than willing (Conversation, Books, Head Shop, Music - pretty much anywhere).

Have to agree with previous comments by Jack et al regarding voluntary help/civilian status of moderators. It was quite a leap for this board to introduce moderators at all, introducing any measures to increase the status of moderators on the board (other than as positive forces for change) is antithetical to the spirit of the community we have here and would serve only to stifle debate.

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:02 / 28.11.02

I agree entirely. The only reason to have the moderators signposted at all should be so people know who to contact if they have a query or want to draw attention to something not workable through a normal request, like a missing topic abstract or a troll. And, I suppose, for reasons of accountability, although we don't really have the powers to be accountable *for* very much. Janitors rather than teachers in the Breakfast Club of Barbelith...

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:19 / 02.12.02

And speaking of cleaning up...

More moderators in the Conversation, please, Tom. Pick maybe a half-dozen likely lads, would be my suggestion.

Goodness Gracious Meme

13:49 / 02.12.02

policy is pretty light-traffic, can manage something else if it'd help...

Our Lady of The Two Towers

15:56 / 02.12.02

Tom, give me the power!

Yeah, I can probably help in the Conversation, as needed...

06:56 / 03.12.02

I'm Steve Block, and I'd like to resign my status as moderator. Has the idea of fixed terms and elections for mods been dropped? That seemed like a good idea. I'm not sure what the timescale of service for a mod was going to be, but I'd suggest a month, to be honest. That would allow forum users more say in their fora. I don't really see any need for a limit on the amount of terms a mod can serve. Time seems to pass pretty quick on the internet. Also, if you still do it, I'd like my suit burned, if/when you get the chance, as I'm off.

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