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The "James-Bond-as-Codename" Theory

 
  

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Jack Fear
13:39 / 21.11.02
There's a new Bond movie out, which I haven't seen--I haven't seen a Bond movie in years, actually--but the hoopla has got my wheels grinding.

A sort of postmodern take on Bond that's been floating around for a couple of years (a shiny nickel to whomever can tell me who originated it) posits the idea that there is no "James Bond" as such--or rather, that "James Bond" is a codename that has been used by a series of agents throughout the years: or even that "James Bond" is a meme, an artificial psychiatric construct implanted into a succession of operatives--in Grant Morrison terms, a para-personality--which explains why Bond is always essentially the same character.

It's a neat idea: for one thing, it puts Bond on the same footing as "M" or "Q", as a role, rather than an actual person--we are never meant to believe that Judi Dench as M is supposed to the same person as Bernard Lee. It reconciles the film continuity, even explaining Lazenby's quip that "This never happened to the other fellow." And on a deeper level, it explains the deep psychological damage apparent from Bond's actions and interactions.

And on a practical level, it opens up all kinds of story possibilities: if anyone can be "James Bond"...

The film franchise will never adopt the idea, of course, because the films are a deeply conservative and formulaic exercise--and if they did, I fear it would be in a shallow, stupid way, relying on the shock value of "Look! James Bond is black (or whatever)!" as a hook but building Yet Another Typical Bond Movie around it.

But what do you think of the "theory" in itself? Fleming, of course, rolls over in his millionaire's grave every time someone mentions it, but what's you're take? An interesting re-imagining? A continuity freak/fanboy exercise on a par with John Byrne's GENERATIONS books? Overreaching? Seeing depth that simply isn't there? Tryting to make the guilty pleasure of a Bond movie respectable for intellectuals?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
13:48 / 21.11.02
For a good long while when I were a nipper, I actually thought this was the whole idea behind Bond. This notion created mainly from the line in OHMSS just before the opening credits. Lazenby has just saved Diana Rigg, then turns to find that she's buggered off.

To audience: "This never happened to the other guy."
 
 
sleazenation
13:49 / 21.11.02
This theory is not only as old as the hills but has actually been caught on celluloid albiet badly as the magnificent failure that is Casino Royal (where we have the first female bond if memory serves) as well as Peter Sellers as bond versus Orson wells as bond villain.
 
 
Jack Fear
14:01 / 21.11.02
Shit, you're right, Sleaze.

Still, pity they've never done anything with it "in continuity," like.
 
 
adamswish
14:58 / 21.11.02
I remeber before "Goldeneye" and Bronson taking over the mantle of Bond there were rumours of a storyline incorporating the "name goes with the number" idea we're talking about here.

As far as I remember the story idea was that the latest "Bond" is captured/killed in such a manner that it leads to the previous four "Bonds" coming out of retirement to tackle the baddies.

Kind of like that special Doctor Who episode were all the incarnations of the Doctor came into the one place.

As an idea it's initially interesting but as you (okay I mean me/I) think about it more and more you /I get the suspicion that they would never be able to pull it off and it would result in a terrible mess.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:16 / 21.11.02
There are scenes cut from the new film with Connery playing Brosnan's father. A possible (withdrawn) nod towards the idea?
 
 
grant
16:35 / 21.11.02
It also explains the ornithologist....

Very Dr. Who idea, but I like it.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
18:11 / 21.11.02
Well, I always thought that Felix Lightner was a codename rather than a person, explaining how he was black in 'Live and Let Die' and white in 'License to Kill'. I think it might be a good idea and would make the films interesting again, especially as they seem to be having difficulties in this post-Austin Powers world, just so long as they don't do anything as crass as just killing off the old Bonds. I believe this is the last Pierce Brosnan film, so something that allowed him to 'pass the mantle', and explain how Bond could be old enough to be a 'Cold War, misogynist dinosaur'... If M had been talking about the agent rather than just James Bond...

An alternative is to say that there WAS a real James Bond, the guy played by Sean Connery. For a brief period when I was interested in Judge Dredd there was a storyline where the original guy was too old and pensioned off and a clone was made because 'Dredd' was so important in keeping order that they needed him out there. Although no-one could mistake Tim Dalton for Sean Connery, it might be interesting if it was thought James Bond was too good an agent to let go.

And am I the only person who liked Timothy Dalton?
 
 
Jack Fear
18:22 / 21.11.02
RE: the Judge Dredd clone: trading off the mystique and reputation of the original, exactly.
 
 
The Strobe
18:27 / 21.11.02
I thought Dalton worked very well in Living Daylights (though not Licence to Kill, which was just rubbish, and he couldn't save). Had a hard edge Moore could never have had; felt a bit stupid saying the wisecracks.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:32 / 21.11.02
The Dredd plot was a cop-out, though, a red herring that was designed purely to allow Wagner to effectively ignore some of the then-recent continuity in the character-led storylines.

I think I'm right in saying that Brosnan's signed up for at least one more Bond flick after this.

The writers could have a lot of fun with exploring the 'different' Bonds. The series possessed an element of self-parody for the first few films (which later exploded into full-on pantomime when Moore got involved, but for the sake of argument let's try and pretend that didn't happen), and it was this that informed Lazenby's quip. That's disappeared in recent years - the Dalton films were very po-faced and they've had trouble shaking that seriousness off. Sly nods to the audience like playing with the main character's identity could be the thing that would see Bond competing against and standing out from every other big action flick.
 
 
Persephone
18:47 / 21.11.02
You mean like the Dread Pirate Robert?

Hm. How do you suppose Cary Elwes would be as Bond?
 
 
Saint Keggers
18:52 / 21.11.02
I really like the whole name goes with the number idea but having all the Bonds together would just seem like such a cheap ploy. It looks like the Haley Berry character Jinx may be gettting her own spin-off franchise.
 
 
Jack Fear
19:13 / 21.11.02
Maybe Halle Berry should be the next James Bond, instead.
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
20:39 / 21.11.02
In the next Bond film Bond should be mortally injured. He falls to the ground and his face morphs into that of Joseph Fiennes...
 
 
Saint Keggers
21:32 / 21.11.02
Halle Berry is Jamie Bond in View to a Moneygrab Twice Another Daylights.
Co-starring Billy Bob Thorton as Jaws and Patrick Stewart as The Old Man with the Golden Dome.
 
 
Yagg
03:35 / 22.11.02
They were always showing the Roger Moore flicks on TV when I was a teenager in the 80s. Last January I saw "Dr. No" for the first time and immediately rented all the Bond flicks in order.

During my months-long run of 007 films, I decided that you just have to suspend your disbelief and enjoy them as fun movies. There's no realism in five Bonds, nor in a helicopter assembled out of suitcases, a man with a golden gun, or multiple Bonds fighting multiple Blowfelds. They're just fun movies, take them or leave them. If you think about them, they're not as much fun. Bond has always been escapist fare. I escape into the Bond movies quite often. I'm in the middle of "You Only Live Twice" right now. Ninjas attacking a secret base hidden in a volcano? Beautifully silly, but fucking awesome!
 
 
Saint Keggers
03:38 / 22.11.02
yes, my secret hidden volcano base will be completly ninja proof....oh yes! I will install a jet engine!!!
 
 
fluid_state
05:22 / 22.11.02
Y'know, I was going to mention that i liked Dalton (in Daylights, mostly), and that I liked the direction of License to Kill(the harder, meaner, "why'd you kill that guy?" "it was necessary" Connery-Bond; the attempt to convey the moral ambiguity inherent in such a function)...

and then you had to bring up the ninjas. Curses.

The sad thing, in terms of the all-mighty franchise god, is that given the crap history of Bond, the only thing that could "save" it would be the multiple-identity Bond versus the everpresent SPECTRE terrorists. Osama Bin Laden was just SPECTRE 114, don't you see... there are many more. Bwa-ha...ahh, never mind.
 
 
sleazenation
07:32 / 22.11.02
In many ways Austin Powers was a remake of Casino Royale with the action focusing on Peter Seller's bond...
 
 
rizla mission
09:21 / 22.11.02
I like this theory.

If they'd pepper the movies with odd tantalizing hints and conspiratorial references and bits of para-personality psychosis, it might.. well.. make them a bit less shit?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
09:55 / 22.11.02
I thought the code-name theory was an excuse made by die-hard Bond fans to explain comtinuity errors pointed out by pedants. I do like it, though, and it would be kind of fun for it to be "used". Although Yagg's right... they are just big, dumb, FUN movies, and to try to make them anything other may (far from making them "less shit") ruin that.

Kegboy- my underground base is already ninja-proof- want some tips?
 
 
Saint Keggers
14:28 / 22.11.02
Chairman Maominstoat: Thanks but I just put in some pirates and now I no longer have a ninja problem.
 
 
gridley
14:36 / 22.11.02
(Sleaze, I always though of the Austin Powers series as being a remake of Coburn's Our Man Flint movies...)

so, I like this multiple Bond theory. I remember as a kid, thinking James Bond might be a time lord, so I'm glad to hear I wasn't alone in that thought.

I think it would have to be some sort of personality transfer, and not just a title. Afterall, the different Bonds are probably too similar in personality quirks (womanizing, martinis, recklesnnes, smugness) to be totally different people. I'd like to think a new agent is chosen from the ranks and injected with some glowing red liquid that contains the essence of the first "James Bond."

I would let the viewers assume Connery was the real James Bond, and then at some point, when the series needed a boost, reveal the first James Bond was some Victorian secret agent.

It would be interesting if they could make the next James Bond female or black without making it comic or exploitive. It might be interesting if one of the James Bonds had a bad reaction to the personality bonding and went insane. Or if lots of them did and there was this whole asylum full of insane James Bonds. That would be fun.

Alternatively, could James Bond be the Avatar of some Hindu diety?
 
 
adamswish
15:35 / 22.11.02
Hands up all those who have read the Jerry Cornelious books then?

Thinking about the mulitple of Bonds does help the more pedantic of us (and I'm talking about myself here).

A lot of the later Bonds (especially Brosnan's) have echos of earlier stories, in fact swear I heard one of the writers of this new one mentioning it's just a re-working of Moonraker, but you would think, if it's the same (age-less) man through out all twenty then his memory would be a bit better.

For example the last part of Tomorrow Never Dies with the chinese agent we see Bond sailling through the watery borders of China and Vietnam. Very distinctive rock formations within those waters. And they haven't changed since we first saw them back in The Man with the Golden Gun. But there's no mention of it by Brosnan's Bond.

In a way the Chairman is right this theory does help those of us who can get a bit pedantic, but to quote some higher intelligence than myself "god is in the detail".
 
 
Yagg
00:14 / 24.11.02
Hee hee hee. I spelled Blofeld "Blowfeld." Hee hee hee. I'm a doofus.

"Hands up all those who have read the Jerry Cornelious books then?"

The Eternal Champion or the Eternal Superspy? Bond, you see, is moving sidewise through a series of not-quite identical realities. In some realities, Blofeld is bald. In others, he has hair. Bond himself changes his appearance slightly to suit the times. Sometimes M is a man, sometimes a woman. Maybe he's also moving in time? That way, I can reason that in fact the 70s Roger Moore flicks that I saw first really WERE the first stories, then 007 moved backwards in time and took on the form of Sean Connery when I saw the earlier films. Hey, I like this, it's all coming together! This way I can decide that "License to Kill" was actually just a Miami Vice episode, and "View to a Kill" never happened at all!
 
 
sleazenation
09:52 / 24.11.02
of course - who is to say all the bond stories happen in the same coherant universe anyway...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:16 / 24.11.02
Fuckin' hell, sleaze, it's bastarding Sunday! Don't hit me with ontological doubt while I've got a cocking hangover!

Funny you should say Cornelius, adamswish- this thread was starting to make me think of The Prisoner.

(btw- saw the new movie the other day. It was kind of fun, I guess. I didn't feel ripped off but I wouldn't pay to see it again. Though in yeras to come I'll probably watch in on telly every Boxing Day.)

Kegboy- pirates'll do that. They were gonna be my main hint.
 
 
Brigade du jour
21:02 / 24.11.02
Can we stop mentioning ninjas please l&g? I'm starting to feel sick.
 
 
Saint Keggers
21:25 / 24.11.02
TFHTB: l&g?
 
 
Brigade du jour
22:00 / 24.11.02
Ladies & gentlemen. One of those trendy clever internet-type things. Sorry I'm new to this game.
 
 
primaeval soup
12:07 / 25.11.02
Something else to throw in the mix –

– The amazing Charles Gray turns up in a Bond movie – He’s apparently a villain – But no! It turns out he’s a good guy after all! – But then he gets killed…

– Then he reappears in another Bond movie – as the Bond villain, Blofeld! And then he appears again! In the same movie! There’s two of him! – But one gets killed – But it was the wrong one! (Or so the Charles Gray who’s left alive claims…)

– Or is it all the other way around?

And still the questions remain

– When Charles Gray/ Mocata/ Aleister Crowley met the Angel of Death at the end of “The Devil Rides Out”, and was expelled from thatworld – Did he use his magical powers to re-incarnate himself into the Bond series? Does Karma come into this somewhere? Is the Aleister-Crowley-inspired character from RAW’s “Schrodinger’s Cat” books – the character that manages to jump out of one the series’s novels and into another novel, thereby escaping a bullet that had his name on it – is this character connected somehow? Wasn’t Dennis Wheately, author of "Devil Rides Out", mixed up in the spy game? Or was it Aleister Crowley that was accused of being a spy? And where does the Charles Gray of The Rocky Horror Picture Show stand in relation to all this??

And sweet Jesus! – I just remembered – Charles Gray’s first “go” in the Bond series – the one he got “killed” in before mysteriously “reappearing” as the Blofeld “twins” in his second (?auuhgodifeeltimemeltingarouuunndmeeee) – that movie was –

– yes it was –

– aauuuuhhhhhhhhhhgggghhhodddddddd
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
12:11 / 25.11.02
Now let's figure out the mystery of who that bald Spanish accented Blofeld lookalike was in 'For Your Eyes Only', and why he thinks promising Bond a 'Stainless Steel Delicatessen' is a good idea...
 
 
adamswish
16:16 / 25.11.02
can't we just stick to the one realm of fiction rather than looking for a unified theory of relativity in all fictions.

On the other hand the dad in chitty chitty bang bang, left that story to become Q!
 
 
Knight's Move
23:45 / 25.11.02
Chitty Chitty Bang Bang being written by...Ian Fleming, of course. Who used to work with Dennis Wheatley (and Alan Turing) creating elabourate fictions and plans and turning captured enemy agents and letting the Germans know it was happening so that they would never know whether to believe their men in the field or not. The group was called Twenty written XX from Roman numerals, pronounced double-cross (see what they did there?).

I've been discussing this for a while with friends, and we have decided to do Bond, Year One like Batman, only the tale of the first mission of the new Bond, playing up audience expectations and screwing round with the concept of the character:

Stunningly beautiful woman with terrifyingly bad sexual pun for name: What do we do now James?

Bond: Well, I thought I would use a ludicruosly obvious disguise, wait to get captured and told the evil plan, and how to stop it, and then escape from the uneccessarly slow death device and then save the world. Again.

SBWWTBSPFN: Well, that sucks.

And Austin Powers never worked because it just wasn't as insane as the original movies it's spoofing. e.g. Billion Dollar Brain or as balls to the wall crazy as the spoofs of the period e.g. The Presidents Analyst (cheers for the recomendation Paleface). but it does miss the mark at times like Get Smart did, so that's all right.
 
  

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