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Underground > Comic Books >

Filth 6

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13:00 / 25.11.02

Sigh. Oh well.

I fucked that up, didn't I.

Attempted to post a "witty" back-and-forth between myself and the Voice of Dion Fortune.

Instead -- something more like the mad mutterings of the stinky unshaven man that sits beside you on the bus.

And hey! I *am* stinky and unshaven! It's perfect!

I'll just go hide in a hole now.

13:10 / 25.11.02

Ah, desperate cries for attention never lose their charm, do they?

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:40 / 25.11.02

I don't think Blake has a red right hand. Milton, obviously, in Paradise Lost book 2. Virgil in Aeneid 10, IIRC. Blake, not so sure.

I'm finding Greg Feely far more interesting than Ned Slade, and I hope I'm meant to. The adventures of the Hand are so...childish, both in their obsessions with shit, piss and sex, and in their recycling of ideas Morrison has already explored, but without the freedom to say "fuck". Amusing but ultimately vacuous. Conversely, the Feeley stuff is getting better and better - he is an actually engaging character, and the police raid was shocking in a way that women being fucked to death by big sperm wasn't. Possibly, however, I just like it because it is so very English - the Sun editorial style of the dialogue in Feeley's drab, horrible little world, the unremitting greyness of his existence, and the fact that it reminds me of a monotone "Kill Your Boyfriend".

--

15:16 / 25.11.02

Dion Fortune has some interesting books (hell, even William S. Burroughs recommended her "Psychic Self-Defense" which was the first occult book I ever read) but sometimes she comes off as old-fashioned, especially concerning her views on gay people (I cringed at one point when I read "What is Occultism"). In aspects like those she was a product of her time.

I understand how all sex is bad sex in The Filth, but I'm getting very depressed when I realize that in most comics anal sex almost always appears in rape scenes and never in love scenes, if it even appears at all.

15:29 / 25.11.02

Thanks Haus: Thought it was Blake after watching Red Dragon.

Yeah, Grant may be treading through some familiar territory, but I don't think that makes the content vacuous. Familiar, sure, but not empty IMHO. Besides, we've still got 7 issues to go.

Maybe this "childish" stuff is necessary and intentional - it's the manure from which the more mature stuff grows and all that blah. Or maybe it's just Grant having some pervy fun, yo.

Then again, it's probably all about the cat. Greg's all fucked up over its impending death and he creates this whole filthy superspy fuck-fantasy to deal with it, to escape his despair, to look for answers. There is no Hand. There is only cat.

meowrrr...

15:52 / 25.11.02

Sypha, have you read Milligan's Enigma?

That should cheer you up, re: nice anal sex experiences. It's also a phenomenally good, self-contained story, with an intro by Morrison in the trade.

Other than that, as I only read mainstream-ish books, I'm sadly drawing a blank.

16:54 / 25.11.02

"Enter Ned Slade..."

Brilliant stuff. I thought that Pornomancer was a bit weak, possibly because there was so little Ned/Greg stuff, but this issue really was back on form.

Stuff I loved: the 'DANGER! FUCK OFF!' signs, "There's nothing to see, you're imagining this...", Miami sporting a ludicrous neon strap-on, Jenesis Jones getting a new "carrier", the return of Mercury and Spector (Just what do readers outside of the UK make of Spector's dialogue?). I like Mercury. He's clearly the coolest guy in the comic - even when he's got drip feeds stuck up his hooter... - and all this before the drama with Greg and poor Tony.

Ant heads on children? "You fucking nonce!". I think GM has captured that "podiophile" paranoia perfectly. In fact, I look forward to the tabloids running a shock feature on how filthy The Filth is - preferably next to a picture of a member of S Club 7 Juniors "blossoming" in a Brass Eye/Charlotte Church stylee.....

Disagree about GM's angle on the porn. In the hands of other writers who parade under the 'Mature Readers' label, this really could have been a 14 year old's wank fantasy. In fact, having seen other people writing sex scenes in comics, I'd go so far as to suggest those comics be labelled for 'Immature Readers'....

This was a good issue. Roll on 7....

18:18 / 25.11.02

And bodybags with funny doll's heads.

Someone should send this to parliament; if only for the good press it would garner.

--

20:40 / 25.11.02

"Enigma" you say? never heard of it but I'll keep an eye out for it.

Anyway, I think the implication made that GM links homosexuality with misogony is a silly one as he seems very open-minded when it comes to homosexuals, at least from what I know about the man. Maybe he's just spoofing that theory or something, I dunno.

As for all the porn stuff... Well, it IS called "The Filth" after all. I don't really find it terribly sexy I must say.

I do wonder why GM likes people to wear animal masks in sex orgy scenes though.

yawn - thing's buddy

21:05 / 25.11.02

animal masks: probo obsesso with wickermano sypho.

21:16 / 25.11.02

Well, 'Enigma' gave me a very interesting take on male homosexuality; it was a big surprise. It's an early Vertigo thing - as I say, highly recommended.

I wouldn't worry about the meta-accusations levelled here at Grant. What I will say is that the 'fuck or be fucked' mantra/concept is ancient Greek in origin; it was a symbol of power to 'fuck' captive warriors, and so on. Tex just gets karmic retribution - and like Anders says in the last issue: "How much can Tex Porneau hate women?"

So... Which side is Grant on? The stories'?

Non-issue.

20:44 / 27.11.02

Stone K.: And Duncan, did that team shot remind you of the X-men?

Sorry for the delay, but no. I read a number of inverse parallels in the shot of the 5 Hand members to the Invisibles team:

Ned Slade/King Mob - obviously.

Cameron Spector/Lord Fanny - female/male gender alteration rather than the converse. An argument for parallels to Jolly Roger there, too.

Miami (or is it Nil? - that seems to have been cast to the wayside)/Robin or Boy - she looks like Boy, especially here with the green eyes (insecteyes on Moog Mercury are identical to Boy's during her 'trial') and shaved head. But she sucks/fucks Feely to remove his parapersonality, and they're kind of a double act.

Moog Mercury/Helga(?) - receiving info, artifacts from stories/language, that sort of thing.

Dmitri-9/Jack Frost - primal or atavistic ontologies, contract killer vs. a boy who never wanted to kill.

I'm sure someone can hammer this into better shape, but it's a start.
And, look!, they all work for the Hand ('that cleans the arse of the world'/'of Glory') But they look stupid, not glamorous! And they maintain 'Status: Q', rather than changing the world to make it great!

I think the Filth is there to unwind the Invisibles. I think it's written by a man well-aware that he writes what is generally considered to be the lowest form of genre fiction - why else Greg Feely, a most unpleasant avatar?

So...

21:53 / 27.11.02

I really liked this issue. It's probably my joint fave so far, along with issue 3.

I think that this is probably because, as a few other folk've noted, the Greg Feely stuff has a lot more bite to it. It's so grimmey, and rediculous, and it's just so... British, for lack of a better term. The last half of the issue really hit the spot for me, in a paranoid Philip K. Dick kinda way, and I'm kind of hoping that the later issues will see the story focus on Feely more than Slade, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

The stuff with the Hand was fun too though. I know it's silly and OTT, and not particularly deep or anything but It makes me larf!
As a friend noted "It's like Grant Morison taking out his trash."

S'fun stuff... I like it...

ONLY NICE THINGS

22:32 / 27.11.02

What I will say is that the 'fuck or be fucked' mantra/concept is ancient Greek in origin

Really? Could you expand on this a bit?

23:37 / 27.11.02

Not really.

Busted! - all's I know is there are Greek paintings depicting defeated enemies being anally entered.

I saw it on telly, so it must be true.

23:39 / 27.11.02

It may actually predate Greek civilisation, but as far as I know it doesn't. And, um, Tex informs us that the mantra's in Latin.

Aren't you the classics student, Haus?

--

02:27 / 28.11.02

Don't forget Tex/De Sade Duncan.

10:25 / 28.11.02

Absolutely, Sypha - I just didn't want to repeat what you'd (?) said.

LaPen/John a'Dreams, anyone?

Regrettable Juvenilia

10:49 / 28.11.02

I'm just disappointed that Anders didn't get to shout "Schtop! Schtop!" before they shot him. Only UK people will get this, but teh way he talks really reminds me of the Grolsh guy... "Guys, relax! No need for the S&M tactics. Anders Klimmaks is definitely a lover, not a fighter!" - great stuff.

Not much to say for now other than that I'm definitely in the camp who found this one of the better issues so far, and that I can't see the point of trying to tabulate how it relates to The Invisibles...

The Natural Way

10:50 / 28.11.02

Every thread. Every single bloody thread......

The Natural Way

10:53 / 28.11.02

Yeah, as I've said before, I can see the point in that it expands on some of those ideas, but all this "he's him; she's her; I'm Alan..." really gets on my tits.

Just for once I'd like to read a Filth thread that didn't devolve into spot the Invisible.

11:42 / 28.11.02

Well, boys (or girls,) there's no need to cry.

I think it relates deliberately to the Invisibles. My supporting evidence is above. You don't (do you?) - but the New Criticism died out about 70 years ago, so I'm going to continue using extra-textual sources.

Some people may find my approaching interesting, others not. There are plenty other aspects to discuss.

The Natural Way

12:04 / 28.11.02

No, Duncan, if you'd read other peep's posts.....

I do think The Filth shares certain themes in common with the Invisibles (see the "expanding" stuff above), but I don't think playing 'spot the Invisible' is the same as discussing those themes and that's what always happens in these threads.

Surely you've got something more interesting to say than "He's him, She's her; I'm Alan..."? I mean, you might find it fun, but we've played this game a gugillion times and...what's the point?

yawn - thing's buddy

12:36 / 28.11.02

it's a tricky one really chaps.

Because there would be no Filth without the Invisibles;

a fact which undoubtedly justifies parallel discussions. But The Filth also wants and needs to be considered a unique, standalone thrillfest in it's own right.

And...there is also an expansion and refinement of Morrison's eternal ideas to be found in the Filth too. Morrison's space/time model which was laid bare in the Invisibles is being re-applied in the Filth.

So to readers who were introduced to these concepts through the invsiy bubble, it seems only natural to compare and contrast the stories.

PoP!

I'm guilty, hence the defence.

But, yeah, The Filth is standalone - that's clear.

I'm especially excited by the notion of compression found within the Filth. And how that ties back to the notion of the Outer Church as a superdense black iron prison (compressed down to a dot?) contained within a subatomic structure.

And how there's a dot at either end of the space/time experience - big bang through to supercontext.

In fact maybe the two helical strands whih spiral through you and me are actually representative of the Invisible College and The Outer Church.

lines are dots through time ain't they?

just jammin, sorry, off topic.

12:43 / 28.11.02

Not sure if anyone else has flagged this up already, but the Vertigo site now previews issue 9 (along with a cover shot) - and it does look interesting:

"This is it - all the answers you've been waiting for are here! What is The Hand? Who are Man Green/Man Yellow? Where is The Crack? The Dark Secrets of planet Earth unfold for Ned Slade as he begins his final initiation as a garbage man and faces the ultimate revelation of life, death, identity - and the Beyond."

The Natural Way

13:01 / 28.11.02

I know, I read that the other day: mmmmm.

Yes, compare and contrast all the way, kids, but please, let's go a bit further than "He's him; she's her; I'm Alan..."

I LOVE the thing about the DNA strands, yawn.

Oh, and whoever said that thing about King Mob in the negative magic matter: oh yes!

20:59 / 28.11.02

It's still early days, but I'm now getting quite intrigued about the mysteries of the hand and also the identity of Max Thunderstone. Max was mentioned in issue 5 by Von Vermun, asking Ned if it jogs any memories, and then, in issue 6, Gregg says (referring to the porn etc.) "I'm not supposed to have horrible stuff like this around the house... but Max wanted proof.."

So why would Max want details of what Greg Feely gets up to?

ONLY NICE THINGS

10:10 / 29.11.02

Duncan - I was a classicist, but never a historian; sounds like something from outside my experience; there's the idea of buggering a love-rival in Catullus (Lat.), so also probably in a lost bit of Archilochus (Gr.), and cuckolds were in Athenian law entitled to shove root crops up the arses of adulterers, but I can't think of any precedent of mass anal rape of a defeated army. Have you been watching Sex B.C.?

Fly - that's it! I knew there was something at the back of my mind niggling about Anders Klimaks and it was, of course, that he is a Grolsch advert. Which just increases the feeling that this was a Bras Eye sketch...

The Natural Way

10:15 / 29.11.02

it IS a Brasseye sketch, isn't it? The Filth was written when Morrison was all into harvesting those currents, methinks. He was prattling on about them......

14:15 / 29.11.02

I'm not interested in having a tiff with you, Runce. The latter post, which said John.../Mother... is, you're correct, merely spot the Invisible (quite like that phrase.) It's also wrong - John a'Dreams is going to be played here by Spartacus Hughes - 'anyone can be...' Having seen the cover of #9, which appears to be a mutable Spartacus' shadow, I feel pretty sure of this.

I'm trying to tie them together, yes, but I'm also giving similarities and (admittedly slight) character insight - such as it is... The 'I'm you, you're me' game has one conclusion - 'everything is everything', yeah? But, I think the Hand team I discuss above relates directly to the Invisibles cell we all know and love(?), member by member - I consider that relevant. I was also responding to a question by another poster, which would suggest that they, if not you, are interested.

I don't understand what you mean by 'read other peoples posts' either; what, instead of dismissing them out of hand? Sorry, that's cheap, but still... If you're asking for supported evidence, and were only criticising the latter John/Mother post (which is, as I've said, wrong anyway) I can accept that, and apologise for this rant.

Okay.

Haus... yeah, I don't think there was mass rape; rather defeated opposing commanders were forced into service as their rival's receptacle. I've no idea what programme I saw it on; I think it was something specifically about homosexuality, rather than history. Channel 4, doubtless. There was also something about the defeatee's spirit/pride being broken by such an act; he became the possession of the victor.

The Natural Way

14:23 / 29.11.02

Unless you expand on any of the themes the similarities highlight, the whole thing still seems pointless to me...but carry on if you like, Dunc. I've had my moan. I admit it: I can be a miserable shithead.

yawn - thing's buddy

14:41 / 29.11.02

man i wish 'the interview' would make an appearance cos you're all so on the nail with the brass eye aye guv.

23:34 / 29.11.02

The theme is a method of denigrating 'The Invisibles'. An inversion, if you will, like I said above.

--

02:57 / 30.11.02

The Invisibles & The Filth have many things in common, even lines: Like, "what was your face before you were born" (spoken by ElFayed in the Invisibles and Mother Dirt in The Filth).

And look at the speech Dmitri made about the Filth's duty at the end of issue 3 and compare it to De Sade talking to Edith at breakfast at theend of volume 3 issue 8, about getting rid of society's droppings/sewage etc.

19:17 / 02.12.02

"I LEFT SCHOOL AT 18. NOBODY SHOULD NEED A MASTER'S DEGREE TO UNDERSTAND ANY COMIC BOOK WRITTEN BY A WORKING CLASS DOLE BUM."

That'll be the new issue of The Crack finally up, then.

Douglas

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