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The Coming Apocalypse

 
  

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ONLY NICE THINGS
00:02 / 11.03.04
I believe there's a norse myth where THOR fights the world serpent (which is wrapped around the world) and the battle lasts somemeasure of time with continued Rains and storms and a rising of the tide

I think you're confusing two different myths. In one he is fishing for Jormungandr, in the other he is tricked into wrestling it, in the belief that he is wrestling his host's mother...
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
09:10 / 11.03.04
If someone could please expand, expound and exposit this entire thread into a chunky, airport-sized paperback (with flight delays)then I have my ten quid at the standby.

Thangyew.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:46 / 11.03.04
Would anyone object to this thread being moved to the Magic forum?
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
10:11 / 11.03.04
Definitely not.
I was just reading 'Cults of Cthulu' by Fra. Tenenbrous XIII, and it mentions that 'In recently deciphered passages from the Book of Enoch (which is where the Nephilim are chronicled) words approximating to the names of the Great Old Ones as they appear in the Cthulu Mythos have been discovered. Does anyone have any information on this? It seems too bizarre a coincidence.
 
 
macrophage
12:17 / 11.03.04
The sky is gonna fall and I want my mummy and alternate dimensions overlap like fine sheets of bubblewrap cascade like brim full of asher. Do you think we're on for population invasion of bioseeded planets then, Mars next - or do you think that Mars already supported life? Is this the 20012 thing or everything connected around differnt tales, sagas and stuff. My girlfriend's fave obsession currently that we all come from the sea - I haven't looked into all the Atlantis stuff or MuMu or Lemuria or that I prefer to keep an open mind and exercise caution. Gaia's been completely ripped by alot of people in power. Does anyone remember books like "Armageddon 2000" or "5/5/2000" both preaching hysterical fanatic eschatologies? Living through the last century's hysterias so many proposed apocalypses just did not happen. I tend to view alot of the Cthulu mythos to be linked to the John Dee stuff (Liber Logaeth) with smatterings of Sumerian/Babylonian borrowed Arcana - but I'll change my mind by tomorrow! The Apocalypse = Fear in my beliefs. Everybody wants to linger for the past. Future Now!
 
 
Sekhmet
16:26 / 11.03.04
Ack! Synchronicities abound...

Researching this stuff has led me and some of my friends into all kinds of weird stuff about Atlantis, the Phoenicians, the Vedas of ancient India, the Nephilim, the Merovignians, Sirius, the Dogons and Nommo, Freemasonry, the Templars, the Rosicrucians, and virtually every conspiracy theory and mystery tradition the world over, all tied together Illuminatus!-style... it’s crazy stuff.

My theory on the 2012 issue is that something will probably happen, simply because so many people are expecting something to happen. Barring any natural disasters or spiritual upheavals, someone out there will probably decide to MAKE something happen, if only a minor political insurrection or a mass cult suicide. But… I also have that weird “feeling” that “something” will happen in my lifetime, which seems to be rampant these days… I wonder if every generation has that, or if it’s somewhat unique to this time period?

As far as Norse myth is concerned, I can’t recall offhand whether there’s a Deluge account or not. Thor and the World Serpent, who are destined to kill each other at Ragnarok, have had several encounters - Thor did try to lift Jormungandr (which was disguised as the giant Utgard-Loki’s pet cat at the time), and he did go fishing for the World Serpent once - and it did thrash around and fight a lot, churning up the sea, and I think there may have been rains and tidal waves produced, but it's been a while since I read that myth. I don't recall an actual Flood. In fact, Utgard-Loki also tricked Thor into drinking part of the ocean, which actually caused an ebb tide rather than a rising one... kind of a backwards Flood, I suppose...

However, Norse myth does project an extended event preceding Ragnarok, known as the Fimbulwinter, if I remember correctly, which is several years of unending winter in which the sun and sky are blotted out and everything on earth freezes and dies. That’s always sounded to me a lot like nuclear winter, or maybe the result of a massive asteroid impact or volcanic explosion that clouds the atmosphere.

For a comprehensive theory on Atlantis, the birth of civilization, the Flood, the Nephilim, and the Fish People, I recommend a look at www.atlan.org . The author – a university professor of some kind, actually - has compiled unusually well-documented multidisciplinary research which suggests not only the existence of Atlantis, but its actual location, what happened to it, how its disappearance is associated with the “worldwide” Deluge that appears in so many myths, and where the strangely “advanced” technologies of certain ancient peoples may have come from...

If you get deep into this stuff, be forewarned that you are likely to go a little nuts trying to read five books and ten websites simultaneously, and that it will likely result in your coming to regard certain subcultural comic books and weird sci-fi novels as a form of Holy Writ, and then you'll start posting rambling messages to underground internet message boards... oh, wait...
 
 
shoal
17:41 / 11.03.04
In each religion that you look at each head god is always a bearded caucasian man. Norse religion: Odin, one eye, one white beard, white skin. Egyptian: Ra caucasian with long white beard. Mayan. Quetzatcoatl, bearded caucasian male. In Norse religion the end of the world is signified when Loki escapes his bonds from a cavern and brings his daughter Hél and the giants against the gods. At this time the warriors in Valhalla will join the gods in their fortress in asgard and Helm will blow the warning horn.
 
 
shoal
17:43 / 11.03.04
Another thing. Ragnarok also happend when the sun and the moon are both swallowed by wolves that are the offspring of Fenrir. If you have any questions at all about the norse religion ask me for I am norse.
 
 
cusm
20:19 / 11.03.04
The 2012 thing, by the way, is an astronomical predection of a conjunction of the Solar and Galactic eliptics. In simpler terms, at dawn on the morning in question (the winter solstice), if you point your finger at the sun, you'll also be pointing at the center of the galaxy. Cool, idnnt it?

How this is important is the stuff of myths that have followed the date. Such include turning of ages, opening of the Way To The Land Of Spirit, and similar. But really, the only thing you can be sure of is the conjunction. Its just a matter of what that's going to mean.

I'll be using the opportunity to activate a gravity gate to warp back to my people on Xeon-437. Its been fun here and all, but it'll be thousands of years before this bus comes around again, and I think I left the tea on.
 
 
---
21:04 / 11.03.04
I'll be using the opportunity to activate a gravity gate to warp back to my people on Xeon-437.

Yeah apparently there's quite a lot of this gravity gate and warp stuff that's going to be going on. I wanna stay somewhere near earth for a while after the supercontext, just to see how she's doing.
 
 
vargr
21:16 / 11.03.04
Here is an excerpt of the Edda that describes the havoc:

Comes then Mjollnir's mighty wielder;
gapes the grisly earth-girdling Serpent
when strides forth Thorr to stay the Wyrm.

Mightily mauls Midgardh's warder---
shall all wights in the world wander from home---;
back falls nine steps Fjorgyn's offspring---
nor fears for his fame--- from the frightful wyrm.

'Neath sea the land sinks, the sun dims,
from the heavens fall the fair bright stars;
gusheth forth steam and gutting fire,
to very heaven soar the hurtling flames.

(Voluspa - The Prophecy of the Seeress, The Poetic Edda)

Vargr
 
 
cirranon
21:42 / 11.03.04
Ah, the Watchers and the Nephilim! One of my favorite subjects in the whole world!

So, as far as I can tell, the most common theories regarding the Watchers/Nephilim, (and there are as many theories, really, as there are heads to store them in), tend to go rather like this -

The "Watchers" are a group of hyper-intelligent pan-dimensional beings who have some sort of interest in the earth and its inhabitants. This can translate into aliens, gods, Faery, or Atlanteans, depending on who you talk to.

Whether this interest is hostile in nature also tends to depend on which mythology you read. It is common, however, for the Watchers membership to be divided on the issue. Some faction of them tends to favor helping and raising human kind, while others are all for enslaving humans. In Sumeria the Anunkai have a pro-human faction lead by EnKi, (the fishman Oannes, parallel to the Nommo of the Dogons - who taught knowledge to the people of Sumeria, is sometimes associated with Enlil, Lord of the Waters) and an anti-human faction lead by Enlil. In the Mahabharata, it's the Asuras and the Devas. In Zoroastrianism it's the Ahura Mazda who is opposed by the Deva/il Ahriman. In the Old Testament, we see Angels vs. Demons. In Norse Mythology, we have the Giants and the Gods.

The form the interest takes can vary as well, but it tends to have two components. It involved the sharing of information that was forbidden to men, and it involved sex. In Genesis and the book of Enoch the fallen Watchers take human women as wives. In Plato, the Atlanteans allowed their pure blood to become mingled with that of lesser men, and so they lost the restraint necessary to maintain their lofty morals and ideals. So, again, perspectives differ depending on whether those who wrote the info down thought the Gift was good - whether the information given was harmful or beneficial to mankind.

Interestingly enough, this Gift of the Fallen Watchers is treated differently even within Christian contexts - as the Gnostic thought was that the God of the Hebrews was actually Ialdaboth the Mad Thought Form, and that the knowledge given in the Garden was actually necessary for people to wake up and get the hell outta dodge.

So, regardless of one's perspective on the initial relationship of the Watchers, the Fallen Watchers, and their offspring the Nefilim, (the Men of Renown, the Great Heroes of Old from Genesis), with human kind, it certainly pissed SOMEONE off, according to most versions. And so the decision was made to unleash some sort of catyclysm on the face of the earth to wipe out the "mistakes," (ie sinful people, the Nefilim, genetically altered humans, whatever). It is generally referred to as a flood brought on by the gods. Adherents to the Atlantis theory like to talk about a war. There is support for this in some of the accounts of the Mahabharata - which have passages that describe scenes which sound REMARKABLY like nuclear warfare carried out from aboard large flying vessels, (Vimanas - another REALLY interesting subject).

After the flood/destruction, the remnants of civilization disperse back out, and order is somehow restored. (This would be the time of civilization seeding, if it did occur). Apprently, the really BAD Nefilim got locked away at the bottom of the ocean, to wait until Judgement Day (see HP Lovecraft/Robert Jordan). Whether or not they, or any of their progeny/bloodline are still in existence, is something around which many of the secret societies of the ancient and medieval world seem to have been founded, (at least according to some theories, see below).

In regards to the sea faring race - A LOT is made of the Phoenicians in folks who write about this stuff. They have a very controversial past, and rightly so - considering the place in time and space their culture occupied. Suffice it to say that the Phoenicians contained within their cultural matrix the Canaanites. And the Canaanites harbored, according to the Old Testament, the Nefilim. When the spies of the Children of Israel come back and report what they have seen in their new "promised land," they are very afraid, because they see that there are "Giants in the land!" The Bible specifically states that these are the Sons of Anak, the Anakim, (which has the same linquistic root as the Anunkai of the Sumerian cylinder seals), who are the NEFILIM! (Numbers specifically uses the term Nefilim).

And the Children of Israel, in the Old Testament, spend a good deal of their time fighting with them. In fact, it appears that the Anakim are successfully pushed out of their last hiding place, the tribe of Benjamin, and driven out into the world to seek their fortune.

At this point, people generally start quoting people like Robert Graves who then try to trace the remnants of the Lost Tribe of Benjamin into various other parts of the world, including Europe. Arguments have been made for their dispersal into Arcadian Greece, for example, and taking part in the events at Troy. What people tend to do at this point is start tracing the effects of their "Gift" rather than actual lineages, because of the nature of speculative pseudohistory.

The "Gift," in this case, (and it was apparently only ONE of the many gifts given or forced upon our race), was the science of nervous-system adjustment known in various forms as magic, yoga, etc. IE the method through which one could fine tune the nervous system to the point where the bars of the prison evaporate, and one is no longer bound by the limitations of the 3D Earthsuit we run around in most of the time. (See Wilson, Leary, Patanjali, Crowley, etc).

And so, the effects and presence of Nephilim tend to be mostly traced from there out by looking for the signs of their teaching - which gets generally lumped under "the occult."

As we get into the present day, we move into the dubious area of the folks from the Holy Blood Holy Grail crowd. There are certainly some very interesting ideas there ...

Regardless, some argue that the Masons/Templars/Rosicrucians (all associated with the Occult, and Ecstatic Experiences) have been involved in plots to reestablish a government at who's head sits someone who is related to blood, and by proper ritual, to the ancient Priest Kings of old, who ruled as symbols and who provided by just existing the necessary bond between The Sky and The Earth - ie the Sacred Marriage. Much debate is centered around the Merovingian bloodline. What I find most interesting is the claim that Merovee was fathered by a half fish half man who came out of the sea ... Also see the Moonchild of Crowley and Morrison's description of this whole process in the British Royal Family.

These folks posit that the Bloodline of Christ is actually just one story associated with a bloodline and mystical tradition that is older than our currently accepted recorded history, that his story was coopted by the church - and that the secret, mystical societies of Western Occultism have been battling the forces of the Church to try and establish the practice of systems designed to liberate mankind from their earthly prisons.

Anyway, that's one of the theories.

In regards to 2012 and the coming apocalypse, it has been posited that it is a sort of program - a mass cultural bomb, as it were, designed to program specific cultural reactions from the "seeded cultures" at a specific place in space time. IE we expect something to happen, and so it does ("the ANCIENTS say it's going to happen! Look at the stones and whatnot! Then end is nigh! Head for Axum to save the Ark!") . Others have postulated, (the Nibiru crowd), that it's a warning of some reoccurring catastrophe - like Hancock and his crowd.

Just my 2 cents. Sorry for such a long post!
 
 
cirranon
23:00 / 11.03.04
Forgot to mention - one of the gods of the Phoenicians was Dagon, the Fish God. Another fish God connection, found in the mythology of a culture which has VERY strong ties to the Nefilim idea - as well as to the idea of civilizations spreading out and colonizing areas which were previously considered to be "discovered" only in much later times. (The Phoenicians sailed EVERYWHERE, and are generally credited with all sorts of wonderful scientific discoveries, as well as having outposts throughout the known world. One legend even tells that Columbus got his ideas from an ancient phoenician manuscript, and there is a coin undergoing analysis right now that was found in Tyre which appears to have a map of the whole world on it - including the so called "New World").

Also, my mistake. EnKi is the Lord of the Waters, and often associated with Oannes the Fish God, not Enlil. so again we have a fish god who favors humans. Carvings of Oannes show a fish, complete in detail, which also have the legs and the FACE of a human somewhere in the middle. Honestly, it looks nothing more like a person wearing a giant fish suit with a hole for his face and legs!
 
 
shoal
16:39 / 12.03.04
If anyone has any question email me at flame_blade80@hotmail.com
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
17:05 / 12.03.04
Wow, pretty comprehensive.
As for the Nephilim bloodline, I've heard (in a strictly 'secular' TV show) that the geneology of most world leaders can be traced to the Egyptian Pharoahs of the first kingdom (geographically Egypt is the nexus between the west African Dogon and the Middle Eastern Sumerians/Phoenicians). I don't know to what extent this is true but combined with the theory of an advanced race interbreeding with humans it raises the possibility that certain people may have segments of their DNA from non-human sources (the naughty bestiality-crazed Nephilim), causing a will to power, a desire to order the universe scientifically, all the aspects we associate with civilisation building and the impetus to move from cave-men to modern humans. This is the opposite of Cirranon's conception of the Nephilim DNA giving us spirituality, it may have given us the capacity for scientific thought. Remember that Dagon taught the Phoenicians farming, astronomy and construction techniques, all 'earthly' pursuits as opposed to spiritual.
 
 
raelianautopsy
18:25 / 12.03.04
Don't forget that the Nephilim/Anunnki bloodlines that control the world are actually shape-shifting Reptillians. At least according to uber-cospiracy theorist David Icke, these bloodlines actually go beyond Egypt to Sumer and ancient Atlantis. Many religions seem to have large amounts of serpent symbolism hidden beneath the surface. Couple that with crazy women claimed to have been raped by Dick Cheney, Bob Hope, etc. and seeing them shape-shift into reptiles; and you have the most insane of all conspiracy theories. Also, the R-Complex, or reptile brain, controls the cruelty, ritualism, and heiarchy aspects of the human mind, and these are the exact aspects that the Illuminati bloodlines obsess over the most. There is a lot more of this sort of information I could post, but I don't have time right now. Is it true? Hey, you never know.
 
 
cirranon
20:15 / 12.03.04
Phex - very good point. So much of what is associated with the ancients definitely appears to be technological in nature. That is the whole point for many folks - that the Nefilim gave us many new skills (mathematics, astronomy - which turned into architecture, sailing, etc.) And, in fact, what a lot of theorists would say is that the Mysteries are, in fact, SCIENCE - both exoteric and esoteric.

Back in "The Day," as it were, the internal Mysteries (the pursuit of the ecstatic experience, reunion with God/the Eternal - Gnosis in general) were on the same side of the coin as science, with "religion" on the other side. Religion is by nature "faith based," they would argue, whereas science is experientially reproduceable - ie it requires no faith, but rather a desire to experiment and to only accept conclusions which are reproduceable. IE the methods of science were the same methods applied to so called "spiritual" matters, and the "spiritual matters" were generally involved with fine tuning the nervous system into a better instrument to measuring more of the Universe as a whole.

So the idea of a super-race giving us Science can definitely include within that framework the idea of "spiritual matters," although it sounds very strange to us because mysticism was tossed onto the pile with religion awhile ago, and many people consider them to be the same thing.

In my opinion, they are related, but as I state above, have some fundamental differences.

A good work on this topic, though highly allegorical in nature, is Crowley's treaty on Atlantis.

And RaelianAutopsy - I have also heard theories on the "Reptiloid" races and their association with the Nefilim/Apocalypse idea. The so-called "Reptile Mind" was a big topic with RAW and Leary, and certain, more ancient, parts of the brain certainly seem to share some characteristics with that of the Reptile. One theory actually credits the Reptiles with being the Watchers, both pro and anti - humanity. Interestingly enough, these folks state that neither group are doing a very good job. The "Anti-Humanity" group interfered with the experiment here on earth, and messed it up somehow. The "Good" watchers, who felt for humanity, have come to earth to try and fix the problems caused by their brethren. Unfortunately, the info THEY tried to give us to help didn't work either, as it's all info designed for REPTILE BRAINS and not HUMAN BRAINS - and so it's best to just stay away from the Mystery Schools all together and figure out the way in which mankind was supposed to have evolved before all these Pan Dimension Beings started mucking about on our world.

Of course, if one had "reptile" genes then "reptile meditation" techniques and "reptile technology" might work for you, eh? Gives a whole new meaning to The Sword in the Stone, the Lia Faile, and the other various equipment-related tests that the kings of old had to pass in order to prove that they were worthy to be king. (Don't forget, the original babylonian concept of King, DUR.AN.KI, meant literally "land-sky bridge," meaning that the king embodied within himself the agreement between the powers of the Sky, and the powers of the Earth (through the Sacred Marriage), and his whole purpose was to keep these principles in balance).
 
 
cusm
18:18 / 13.03.04
In regards to 2012 and the coming apocalypse, it has been posited that it is a sort of program - a mass cultural bomb, as it were, designed to program specific cultural reactions from the "seeded cultures" at a specific place in space time. IE we expect something to happen, and so it does

That's the camp I'm in for it, more or less. IF anything happens, it'll be because of mass built up hysteria triggering collective consciousness to magickal effect. To which, I stalwartly believe as hard as I can that everything will be ok in order to do my part to help counter it. Just say "no" to the apocalypse!
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
19:37 / 13.03.04
hmm... don't know about that one. Outside of those who have read the Invisibles, studied the Mayan calender/Terrence McKenna, there aren't too many people out there who believe that the world will end in 2012 (correct me if I'm wrong). And besides, if built up hysteria could trigger a Magickal apocalypse, we'd have already had one in 2000. (ooh, second thought, the millenium happened at different times for different people on earth, and for many people not at all ((like the Chinese and Hindus)) because the 2012 apocalypse meme posits a specific time it could potentially be a much more precise emotional event. But to hell with it, I'll be rich by then. I'll have my own apocalypse. With blackjack and hookers.)
 
 
---
20:30 / 13.03.04
Unfortunately, the info THEY tried to give us to help didn't work either, as it's all info designed for REPTILE BRAINS and not HUMAN BRAINS - and so it's best to just stay away from the Mystery Schools all together and figure out the way in which mankind was supposed to have evolved before all these Pan Dimension Beings started mucking about on our world.

So what would you consider staying away from then?

I'm trying to find the right type of magic at the moment and am beginning to wonder if i should just stay away from the accepted magical stuff and go totally chaos, as in creating an entirely self made magical framework because it seems like almost all magical teachings could of been interfered with by these 'watchers'.
 
 
---
20:31 / 13.03.04
Oh i forgot to say cirranon that i've really enjoyed reading your posts here, thanks for the info you've shared here.
 
 
cirranon
02:34 / 15.03.04
Thanks very much Zen! I'm enjoyiing the discussion as well!

It seems to me that the real kernel of viability within an event that can be labeled "apocalyptic," regardless of the trappings of its form, is a FUNDAMENTAL change in a society, (more specifically the society whcih is describing the past or future apocalypse). The idea of the changing of the ages is actually a fairly common motif throughout cultures - almost as common as the idea of the Flood. The Hindus, the Greeks, the Mayans, Tolkien, the Chinese, Jordan - they all speak of this sort of progress - much of it cyclical. WE even classify our history as such even in history - Bronze Age, Iron Age, and so forth, (though we don't have the perspective for the cycle, I believe, as we relegate sumbunal mythology to the genre of psychological stories). That sort of categorization seems to be a part of the way the human computer categorizes things ...

So, it seems to me that the idea of an Apocalypse is something that is not a singular event. It is even possible that there have been many more, each with their attendant messiah (ie the figure which helped the culture through the storm). I mean, the Flood could be described as AN apocalypse, and it had a savior figure. It is even possible that therre have been several different TYPES of these events, with different causes. Some could have been physical in nature - (for example, the web of events which caused the mass die offs at the end of the last ice age could possibly account for the Flood, (see www.atlan.org for an interesting take on this)). Some could have been social in nature - for example the introduction into the human gene pool the capacity for language, which some have argued behaves like a virus and is responsible for the individuation of the human consciousness, which in turn gave man the capacity to develop abstract concepts such as "good" and "evil." While this process could have, evolutionarily, taken many generations, it is possible that it has its place in our literature as The Fall in Genesis, and the tale of The First Man in Sumerian Mythology. In these tales, the bringer of the wisdom is the messianic, or Anti-Christ figure, (depending on your view of the event itself).

Now, the more specific TYPE of apocalypse we're addressing here is one of the Armageddon variety, (again see the Flood). Especially, for obvious reasons, one which might affect US. The one described, for example, in the Apocalypse of John, and in the tales of Ragnarok, and the time when Shiva does his world destroying dance in Hindu mythology. This would be the one which, for us at least, resets the score to 0, or possibly to "Tilt." Most myths seems to agree that the process will be a tough but necessary change to keep the Universe going.

The form of the Apocalypse takes seems to depend greatly on who's making the predictions. Not even the Christians agree on who's actually going to suffer through it. Terrence McKenna wanted us to all take mushrooms and dance ourselves into the future. The Arcane School of the Lucis Trust wants everyone to meditate for 15 minutes a day on topics related to the efforts of the United Nations. David Lynch wants Ashrams to be set up in city's to mitigate the psychic atmosphere there. There seems to be a belief that They Who Have The Most Minds Win.

As for myself, I have to say that I live in awe of the power of the human mind acting in concert with others. It seems to me that at some time there will probably be a tipping point where the Leary/Wilson/Morrison dream of Humankind evolving and taking off into the stars in a blaze of glory will happen. Reunion with the All in a real and total sense. Sounds like the Rapture, Nirvana, Attainment to me! (On a related note, if one is frightened of this experience, the energy released at the point of Acceleration into Hyperpace would, quite possibly, feel something like Yog Sothoth eating your soul if one was not in tune with the experience).

I think that will happen when it's READY to happen. What concerns me are those engaged in a sort of "forced blooming" process - trying to force a utopia before mankind is ready to live in one successfully. Those tend to go bad fairly quickly, and might set back evolution quite a bit. Cosmically speaking, this is no big deal. Personally speaking, I am not a fan.

And this is where some conspiracy theorists argue that the "Mass Enlightenment" event will be some sort of faked spiritual or scientific phenomenon. Like, faking alien contact, or faking the approach of a killer asteroid that unites the world to destroy it, etc. (See The Watchmen for interesting propaganda for such a plan).

So, Cusm, it's precisely your sort of attitude that I believe will help the change come naturally when it's ready. And then, when it happens, it should be a stone GROOVE!

And Phex, I agree with you. I don't think that the 2012ers have enough of a peice of the psychic landscape of the planet to make a difference by themselves! And anyway, Kalachrakra Buddhism states that the cycle won't reset somewhere until the 2400s, so ...

Then again, the very concept of time acts as a kind of motivator for the human consciousness, especially in the West. To be able to develop a sense of urgency, the ability to conceive of time certainly helps! Now, we've come to a point where records on a worldwide scale are set up so that, even if a different calendar is used, everyone knows WHAT YOU MEAN. Maybe picking a time and concentrating positively on it isn't such a bad idea! Kinda like the Crisis Inducers Lintilla the Archaeologist used in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

"Hurry! They're after us!"

"Who are?"

"NO one! Come ON"
 
 
Schism
23:32 / 16.03.04
Greets All:
First off, thanks to all who posted, I have learned something from every post. Thank you all.

There are so many posts I would love to add to and comment on but I will keep this brief and deal only with one aspect, the so called comming apocolypse.

Please understand that this from my point of view or Belief System, or as Bob Wilson calles it (B.S.) Also my knowledge is limited on this so if you have something to add, please do because I would love to learn more.

Some of what I have read, talks of the precession of the equinoxes. The line on which the earths axis precesses (rotates) is a process which takes 25,920 years, we are now completing the circle which is due to take place on 12/21/2012. I have read that when we go through this that we will attain another dimension, to our 3 dimensional world.

For those that are skeptical of the existence of other dimensions, Albert Einstien posited that there may be as many as 11 different dimensions shareing our space at this time. Also the existence of added dimensions help to quantify string theory. (to see or read more on dimensions and string theory: The Elegant Universe by Brian Green produced by NOVA and can be seen on the NOVA web page under the "watch this program" link. Go here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/ ).

At the time that this happens, it is speculated there may also be a pole shift, pole shifts have happened before and in some old texts (I dont recall which ones, maybe someone can help me here.) its recorded that the sun rose in the West. One of the bad things about this is that its also claimed that our brains retain memory etc by using the magnetics of the Earth and that a major pole shift would have the effect of eraseing our memories. Slight disturbances in the magnetic field have already been noiced and some navagational systems have been recalibrated at major airports to adjust for this. Its also said that this is why dolphins and whales beach themselves. They are following these magnetinc lines that have shifted to over dry land.

In any event, the majority of this info came from The Ancient Secret Of The Flower of Life Vol 1 and 2 by Drunvalo Melchizedek. (ISBN: 1-891824-17-1 and 1-891824-21-X ).

I was in the local Barnes and Noble and when I go in there, I try to just move around and see what catches my eye, It seems I have been directed to many good books this way. And this is how I found this one.

My apologies for not being more thorogh, there is a wealth of info in these books, if any one wishes more info on this I would be glad to post but felt I would "test the water" on this subject first before subjecting you all to 8 or 9 paragraphs of it.

Frances: I hope this helped or at least that someone can add to this.

To All: Thanks for listining!

Schism
 
 
Francine I
03:31 / 21.03.04
It's somewhat surreal and thrilling to post in this thread after such a long hiatus. I hope everybody is doing well.

There have been numerous considerable contributions to this thread, and I am grateful to each and every poster here for considering the thoughts offered and for offering their own. There is, in my impression, an unprecedented quality of open-mindedness at work here.

For my part, I feel that I downplayed the significance of one poster's offerings regarding the Hebrew interpretation of some of the texts discussed, in the spirit of dogmatic adherence to the interpretations I had been exposed to. Those points were quite important, to be sure. Interestingly, it almost seems arguable that in Hebrew interpretations and texts, each and every manifestation eventually becomes God. I wish you would've smacked me around a bit to get my attention -- it's not easy to find someone who knows these sorts of things. I apologize for that bit of closed-mindedness on my part. I did it quite accidentally, but I did it nonetheless. "If I knew then what I know now".

In addition, I think this subject may have become somewhat outmoded since the Pentagon has just begun taking this somewhat seriously. Very seriously, in fact. In my consideration, it's down to practical concern. In fact, I've basically said all I can think of that is useful to say in the "Mass extinction.." thread in the Laboratory. The legends are fascinating, but the fact is upon us. Not today. But two decades is a very, very short period of time geologically speaking. And it's not the change of climate that can't be survived -- it's a relatively gentle ending to an ice age ( not a major cycle ) .. it's what privileged people will do to keep their privilege when things begin to change. Nothing is set in stone, but collective denial on the part of much of Western society ( thankfully not all ) could prevent those with the most tools for managing this transition from doing what needs to be done. And that's not to establish blame. It's just that it would be terrible indeed if those with the power, and therefore the responsibility, did not 'wake up' in time for 'the rest of us'.

Of course, I could be nuts. But then, there are people who don't know or care about fish people who are yelling and screaming about severe climate change ( which occurs on a regular cycle ). Even the Pentagon and the U.N. The diversity of sources who share this concern -- many in a rational and scientific capacity, with the mere coincinki-dinque of date correlation -- is simply impressive. What's surreal is that the U.S. media-complex seems remarkably unconcerned.

I'd be interested to know how seriously this is being taken outside the U.S. The reaction here feels like abortive panic with a glorious dollop of angst-numbing detachment. Maybe those aren't the right words. It's as if people know, but have decided that they're just going to continue on their way -- like ignoring the homeless.

I just want to shout. I know people are smarter than this. It's the fucking marketing.
 
 
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11:21 / 21.03.04
It feels like something out there is.........allowing the governments to continue in the way they are doing because it could be the only way to wake us all up.

It's like : Look! Here! and here! and over there! look all around you! This is what you have to wake up from and it's not going away.

Maybe we are definately past the point of saving our planet, maybe we aren't supposed to be able to save this place because we truly and definately are destined to go somewhere else and the truly horrific situation is the only thing that will give us the drive to wake up to ourselves.

I have to read this through again to check it over and i don't want to because it's not gonna be nice to read, but somehow this could be the case. If we start pulling back and saving the planet and we're destined to transcend earth or go to our next evolutionary phase or whatever, maybe we'll start feeling safe and complacent again and begin to fall back to sleep.

I just get the feeling that this level of shock is designed to spur us into action. To examine and fix ourselves, to make us wake up as fast as we can, because we're needed awake, as awake as we can be for when the moment comes, if there is such a thing.
 
 
cirranon
20:29 / 22.03.04
I too, in my more positive moments, have wondered if the current state of the world in general, and the American administration in specific, isn't some sort of birthing pain for the change that might or might not be coming. Sort of a Cosmic "Don't do this!!!" brought forth by the universe to provide the necessary impetus to keep the flowering of awareness going.

If I'm honest with myself, and not ranting and raving at the goverment for failing to legalizing the drugs that I feel should be legalized, I get pretty amazed. Regardless of how horribly oppressive I feel certain policies are, it seems to me that the methods for opening the doors of perception are available to almost everyone in our society in a way unparallelled since, perhaps, shamanism was a way of life for the tribes of the neolithic days. I say "amost everyone" because some people a)cannot read, and b) don't have access to the internet - the two main barriers to the info NOW; barriers which, thank goodness, are ever lowering.

In ancient times, it was more often than not the case that such practices were taught only to a select few, (Eleusinian Mysteries), or only at a certain LATE stage in life (the Forest Dwellers of India). TODAY, it is a fairly simple thing for anyone who can read to access time-tested meditation practices, binaural trance tapes, Crowley's 8 Lectures on Yoga, Grant Morrison's works, Robert Anton Wilson's works, Bill Hicks' stand up comedy. I mean, the internet and mass-media publications are merely two edged swords, like any other form of power, and SUMBUNAL folks are using this technology in useful and positive ways. And, as the tools they have access to are more powerful than ever before, the effect they are having is even more pronounced.

No matter how much The Orthodoxy annoys us, it is rare to see anyone get stoned to death for practicing non-standard religions anymore, (though unfortunately not all feel free to practice in public). One can freely access information that, previously, was hidden to most. In fact, the keepers of the "Secret Knowledge" are thought to have themselves attempted to kill those who shared it with those who didn't fit in with what they wanted. This speaks of at least SOME sort of progress to me.

Humankind has been prone to a "5 steps forward, 4 steps back" sort of process for so long now, it's easy to only focus on the negative things - the Armageddon-ish whispers of impending doom. And, to be sure, I think that some pain is going to be inevitable, simply because the human psyche often equates change with pain.

The descriptions in mythology as to what the Apocalypse will look like indicates to ME that, if there is an actual EVENT - the return of Jesus, the spontaneous increase of the vibrational rate of the Global Cultural Matrix, Yog Sothoth devouring the souls of the faithful - one's own views as to what is going to happen is going to effect how you experience said event. (As Death says in most Pratchett books - "What happens from here on out is up to you.")

And this starts getting into the (always to me) fascinating subject of the correlation between "physical"events and "spiritual" ones. When discussing Apocalyptic literature, especially the 2012 info and the eschatalogical traditions espoused in the Book of Enoch and the Apocalypse of John, there seems to be an "as above/so below" correlation between the transformation of the material world, and the transformation of Group Mind. And, given the kind of data Schism posted, one can't help but wonder ...

a) if the "physical" events will precipitate the spiritual event in an "automatic" sense, (ie a massive "upgrade" in the Collective Consciousness, the Manifestation of the Human Oversoul, etc., brought about by the increased Energy Levels our planet is experiencing as it passes through a specific part of the galaxy)
b) OR if the "physical" events will come about as a RESULT of the "spiritual" forces at work (ie the energy released as the world wakes up EN MASSE leads to the dissolution of our world, as a butterfly leaves its chrysalis)
c) OR if the physical events will bring about the necessary changes in the Cultural Consciousness, finally allowing for mankind to get back to the business of evolution in a spirit of unity, which leads, ultimately, to the Final Ascencion. (This one is fairly popular with Christians - (the 1000 year Reign of Christ after the Second Coming, before the final banishment of Satan) - and, strangely enough, the Theosophic Arcane School of Alice Bailey, who see this as the ultimate goal of the United Nations).

Myself, as I try to work on my Winner Script, can't help but liken this whole thing to the process of Yoga - where the long labors of the physical bring their true rewards on the mental and spiritual levels. In a Self Correcting Universe, I hope that warning signs, if given, will be adequate to the task of awakening people in "time" to make good on Humanity's promise ...

I mean, look at this website!
 
 
Haus, Heart, Home, Hearth
01:27 / 23.03.04

The legends of Atlantis were actually referring to us at 2012AD, the day we accomplished time-travel.

How's that for something?
 
 
cusm
12:07 / 23.03.04
When discussing Apocalyptic literature...there seems to be an "as above/so below" correlation between the transformation of the material world, and the transformation of Group Mind.

Apocalypse, its good to remember, is Greek for "Revelation". I am one to view this sort of literature as metaphore for an internal process more than one to happen to the world itself. Though as I view the collective of society and the earth itself as a consciousness, I have to admidt the process could take place on this global consciousness level, which will have tangible effects in the physical world. Perhaps not the stars falling out of the sky, but things could very well get pretty rough if an Awakening or what have you happens on this level.
 
 
macrophage
13:00 / 23.03.04
On 2012 I reckon we should all wear yellow waterproofs (tops & bottoms), just in case of the Rapture by unseen Elder Forces. Seriously we have a long time to go til destruction - make way for serious paradigm shifts mebbe quantum computing or nanotek?!
 
 
Francine I
21:55 / 25.03.04
...What about climate change?
 
  

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