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The Left Behind Series

 
  

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Seth
07:47 / 04.11.02
I'd never heard of these little atrocites until I went on holiday to the States. I must admit, I'm not ever likely to read them (life's too short), but from what I've heard they seem designed to spread unhelpful ideas about Christian eschatology (although Revelation has probably done more in that respect than any other book).

Has anyone here actually read any? I doubt it, because the writing seems really bad. What are people's thoughts?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:31 / 04.11.02
I find the Left Behind series interesting - in the same way that the "Left Behind" comic books are apparently the best-selling comics in America, but are completely ignored by the secular comics press. Likewise, the Left Behind books, despite being almost unreadably badly written, outsell things like John Grisham quite comfortably.

I've read the first one, and it is hilariously funny, or at least would be if you didn't know that there were people apparently using it as a blueprint for the last days; the bit where the gang who were not seized in the rapture but have subsequently found faith decide to battle against the Antichrist by forming Tribulation Force (tm) is high fucking comedy. Likewise the enormous laziness and contempt for the reader shown by trying to engineer a cliffhanger out of "Is Nicolae Carpathia, Romanian ambassador to the United Nations, the Antichrist?" OF COURSE HE FUCKING IS. He's called "Nicolae Carpathia". He represents world government. What do you dang diggety think?

So, yes. Read over a cup of coffee in Borders. Giggle. Get suddenly very depressed.
 
 
Pepsi Max
11:14 / 04.11.02
Interestingly, they've attracted some flack as well. Here and here.

What pisses me off about some Xtians is they're more interested in witnessing the end of this world than trying to make it better.

Hence the unhealthy obsession with Daniel and Relevation.
 
 
Jack Fear
12:16 / 04.11.02
Interesting interview with Tim LaHaye, the theological side of the Left Behind writing team, from NPR's Fresh Air. It's about a half-hour: you'll need RealAudio.

The thing I find most frightening about him is that he has "no doubt whatsoever" that he's going to heaven. None.

Now, I dunno... seems to me that doubt is the engine that runs the mind, and that if everything is utterly certain, then everything is utterly static, and growth becomes impossible. I like my prophets to be tormented, myself.

And Pepsi, at one point LaHaye admits that, even though he's sure he'll go to Heaven whenever he dies, he hopes the Rapture comes during his lifetime.

Anyway, if you listen to the LaHaye interview, be sure to listen to the follow-up with Israeli journalist Gershom Gorenberg, who talks about the starnge and tortured relationship that American fundamentalists have with Israel and with Judaism in general.

I was once briefly involved in a comics project that circled around some of these themes... even though my thinking leans more towards Gorenstein than LaHaye. I thought then and think now that the tropes of Rapture and Tribulation could be used as a basis for some interesting fiction--but to be interesting, that fiction would, I think, by definition have to be written by someone who doesn't actually believe in them. That was the perspective I was writing from, and it caused some problems.
 
 
Jack Fear
14:14 / 04.11.02
Wah-hey! The books that Pepsi Max links to are truly fucking terrifying—the first one, especially, which bitches that the Left Behind books aren't fundamentalist enough, and are, in fact the work of the AntiChrist himself!!!

Oh, how I wish I was making that up.
 
 
grant
14:48 / 04.11.02
Nothing to see here.
Just move along, now.

I shouldn't really comment on the Left Behind books (or, uh, the above mentioned products) because a/ I've never read them and b/ I basically write parallel texts for a living. The End Times sells wacky tabs like nothing else. I've become quite the eschatalogical bullshit artist over the past few months....

Hey, expressionless! Seen any "Rapture Warning" bumper stickers yet?
("In the event of the Rapture, this car will be unmanned!")
 
 
rizla mission
10:48 / 05.11.02
Tribulation Force (tm)

my band is named.
 
 
Seth
12:03 / 05.11.02
Gotta be honest, I much prefer The Rapture by Blondie to the one in the Bible. And yeah, although I didn't see any of the rapture bumper stickers I was made miserable by being told of their existence.

I guess I can kinda see the funny side if I squint hard enough (characters with names like Buck Williams, Rayford Steele, Ivy Gold, Joshua Todd-Cothran and Dirk Burton are display a mockery-defying ineptitude), but it's just that bit too painful, a bit too close to home. And nothing in this thread comes within a million miles of The Most Disturbing Expression Of Fundamentalist Christianity that I have ever encountered (which I was subjected to on holiday, and may post about at some later date).
 
 
grant
13:20 / 05.11.02
You're going to *have* to clue us in, you know.
 
 
Seth
22:35 / 05.11.02
I kinda want to talk about it... but a big part of me feels there's been quite enough Christian bashing round these parts of late. I don't want to pour petrol on the fire, it's too easy a target if you're not prepared to think deeper about the subject.
 
 
Sensual Cobra
23:10 / 05.11.02
I thought about doing a book review/social commentary on the Left Behind phenomenon, sort of an immersive piece trying to get myself into the headspace of people who believe with all their hearts, but found Salon had done a pretty good job of it here: http://archive.salon.com/books/feature/2002/07/29/left_behind/ .

Which furthers my suspicion that I'm always going to be about 10 seconds behind the zeitgeist.
 
 
grant
13:44 / 06.11.02
Think deeper expressionless.
 
 
Baz Auckland
14:30 / 06.11.02
I was going to say that I thought it was just a horrible movie,

But then I saw that there was a sequel.

Scary.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
23:53 / 16.03.03
I'm wondering if anyone's heard of a book called We All Fall Down. The story is similar to Left Behind - but from an entirely differant perspective. The author of the book isn't a Christian; the protagonist isn't a Christian, but the world is going to hell Left Behind style. It sounds fascinating.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
00:22 / 17.03.03
I recently managed to find a copy of the first one- I've read the first couple of chapters and it's appalling. However, it reminds me of three movies I watched at church when I was a kid (I think the first once was called "a Thief in the Night") which dealth with the same malarkey and gave me nightmares for years.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
01:23 / 17.03.03
Oh boy, I remember those movies.

A Thief In The Night
A Distant Thunder
Mark Of The Beast
The Prodigal Planet

A few of them have entries on IMDB. I loved them when I was a kid. I seriously expected Russia to invade Isreal at any moment.
 
 
Jack Fear
16:07 / 17.03.03
We All Fall Down is by Brian Caldwell, who, as it turns out, teaches high school English here in Massachusetts.

Haven't heard of the book previously, but it sounds like a corker:

Caught up in the Christian end times, [the hero] tries to use his learning to advantage without submitting to God...

... [Demons] give a long speech to explain away the Rapture in terms of alien intervention, but the apocalyptically savvy protagonist just laughs at the devil's obviousness: "Nice try, cocksucker. Next time why don't you just try offering me the fucking apple."


Now that's an Apocalypse I can live with!

The book has, unsurprisingly, drawn sharply divided reviews: the Left Behind crowd can't get past the profanity and the graphic violence (which were also a source of difficulty between my collaborator and me on our own abortive Rapture-themed project) to the hard questions about faith and responsibility: indeed, those very questions may be a strike against the book, in the eyes of that audience.

Interesting article on Christian Apocalyptic Fiction and its relation to Science Fiction, of which it is sometimes deemed a subset.

Then there's Michael Tolkin's 1991 film The Rapture, which finds its axis somewhere between Robert Altman and Ingmar Bergman: its auctorial point-of-view seems that of an agnostic or atheist sympathetic to the hunger for connection, for meaning, that leads people to blind faith (though he stacks the deck a bit by including elements of direct revelation).

Mostly it's a polemic on the perils of anthropomorphizing God—the heroine, in the end, is unable to submit to a Divine justice that she finds cruel and, well, inhuman.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:18 / 17.03.03
Foust- there were four of 'em? Fuck, I only ever saw the first three! I SO have to get hold of them. And see the fourth one.

On a similar note, has anyone read Frank Peretti's "Darkness" books? The first was called "This Present Darkness", and I think the second was "Breaking The Darkness" (or possibly "Piercing the Darkness"). Your typical small-town good vs evil thing, but largely from the point of view of angels. Read disturbingly like a video game- only if the righteous characters prayed enough would the angels have enough power to defeat the demons that were attempting to lay waste the earth. (My mum got me to read them in a last-ditch attempt to keep me on the straight and narrow. Yes, I enjoyed them, but by God they were awful, looking back.) They were, in fact, like a Christian Stephen King (in his REALLY bad period), which is every bit as bad as it sounds.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:21 / 17.03.03
Oh, and noting reflect's comment on Christian-bashing- for the sake of balance, I should add- recently my godparents gave me a bunch of books by Charles Williams (a friend of CS Lewis and Tolkien), only one of which I've read- "Descent Into Hell". A truly bizarre metaphysical thriller, which put me in mind of Crowley's "Moonchild" and actually elucidates fairly well (though a little clumsily) some of the better parts of Christian doctrine, though without actually saying as much. It was very good indeed. At some point I'll read the others- I'm quite looking forward to it.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
00:03 / 18.03.03
Yeah, Frank Peretti is another image from my past. The only book of his that manages to be something other than pop fiction is The Visitation, and that's so full of penticostal inside-jokes that it might be too esoteric for the average reader.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
06:17 / 18.03.03
Anyway. You bastards. Thanks to all you Barbelith fuckers, I've just been inspired to have another crack at "Left Behind". Five pages in, and I will never forgive any of you if I end up buying all of them.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
09:00 / 18.03.03
Heh. I've actually read quite a few of them. During the summer 2001, I ended up checking about 5 of them out of the library. They're like a sore tooth I couldn't stop picking. It's like an action movie where you're forced to root for the Christians or root for people to become Christians so they can go and join the good guys.
 
 
bjacques
10:19 / 18.03.03
Sorry, Stoatie, but you have to read the 10 Scientology novels first! If you don't feel up to reading all of Left Behind, try to find a late 1970's novel called 666/1000, by Salem Kirban, or Larry Burkett's The Illuminati. Kirban's book has a lot of great pictures, including a mobile guillotine with an electronic sign for keeping score! 1000 is the aftermath and *final* Final Battle after Jesus' 1000-year reign.

I'm listening to that interview. I've been banging on about this theme for years. Fundie eschatology is derives from Rev. Darby and the Scofield Reference Bible, from about 1910; it has about as much to do with Revelation as Elijah Muhammad's "grafted white devils" had to do with Islam. Basically, if/when Jesus comes back, he'll indirectly kill more Jews than Hitler. By immanentizing the Eschaton, fundies are promoting this.

Of course, my favorite interpretation is Apokemon, from www.e-sheep.com
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
13:48 / 18.03.03
200 pages in. So far, tracking down the antichrist a magazine writer has visited London, where we apparently have 'law enforcement officers' working out of Scotland Yard, and ne'er do wells will call you 'governor' to show how evil they are. Meanwhile, back in America, a pastor has spent about 5 pages so far telling another main character why, briefly, he didn't get taken up in the Rapture.
 
 
Jack Fear
13:59 / 18.03.03
After just reading that review of We All Fall Down, I fear I could never read the Left Behind books—every time I hit some theologically-dodgy bit, or five-page speech, I'd be hearing the words "Nice try, cocksucker" in my head.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:38 / 18.03.03
Lada- I think we're about neck-and-neck. It's like having my balls trapped in a fridge door- deeply unpleasant, but I can't get away.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
13:42 / 19.03.03
Page 275, Nick's doing his thing and nobody has noticed he's the anti-christ. Up to about 100 pages ago it was just faintly risible, now it's getting nasty. Our jet-flying hero has become a born-again Christian and is praying that his daughter will see the light too, which she looks likely to do by the end of the book.
 
 
Saveloy
15:24 / 19.03.03
[threadrot]

Stoatie:

"It's like having my balls trapped in a fridge door- deeply unpleasant, but I can't get away"

Holy Christ! Is the fridge door actually closed and you're on the opposite side of it to your balls? Or are your balls being held between the door and the frame, so that if it were to close your balls would be crushed?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:58 / 19.03.03
I'm getting on to page 400- my balls are still trapped, and it hurts so much I can't figure out exactly where they are with relation to the fridge door, other than that they fucking hurt. And I don't think I'm gonna be eating any of them there vegetables either...

Do any UK 'lithers have copies of the others, cos I (to my eternal shame) trawled some bookshops this morning and couldn't find a single one...

Regarding Mr Carpathia...

and I quote...

Chloe smiled. "So you're not going to start comparing him with the liar the pastor's tape warned us of, somebody from Europe who tries to take over the world?"
"Hardly," Rayford said. "There's nothing evil or self-seeking about this guy. Something tells me the deceiver the pastor talked about would be a little more obvious."
"But," Chloe said, "if he's a deceiver, maybe he's a good one."
"Hey, which side of this argument are you on? Does this guy look like the Antichrist to you?"


Let's think very carefully before answering that last question, shall we?

Be that as it may, I'm hooked. And I hate you all.
 
 
Seth
19:55 / 19.03.03
I'm. Sorry.

 
 
Foust is SO authentic
20:48 / 19.03.03
Maybe he's just another in a long line of Europeans trying to take over the world.

I've had repeated arguments with my Christian friends over the plausibility of these stories. Surely there are enough non-Christians who know the basic LB plot not to be fooled by an Anti-Christ figure, a la We All Fall Down?
 
 
Thjatsi
05:31 / 20.03.03
True. I'm agnostic because I see little evidence that any supernatural being exists. However, if a few thousand conservative christians disappeared off the face of the earth with no trace or explanation, it would basically result in an instant conversion. In addition, anyone who tries to pull a "paint by numbers" antichrist routine after this happens is going to get a few hundred assassination attempts a month.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
10:22 / 20.03.03
Be that as it may, I'm hooked. And I hate you all.

That's what I'm talking about - sore tooth.

Go Christians, Go!
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
16:14 / 20.03.03
If the airline captain doesn't drown his daughter trying to save her from unclean spirits and the devil I'll be very disappointed. Of course, this probably isn't a sensible time to be reading a book about fundies and the End Times...
 
 
Rev. Orr
17:34 / 20.03.03
Hey reading it's fine. It's just a fucking scary time to be writing them from a position within the Republican family.
 
  

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