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Advanced Placement

 
 
Matthew Fluxington
11:37 / 05.02.02
From the [URL=http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/01/education/01FIEL.html?ex=1013926754&ei=1&en=7da81e37e1bfd717 ]New York Times:[/URL]

quote: High School Drops Its A.P. Courses, and Colleges Don't Seem to Mind

February 1, 2002

By YILU ZHAO


The Fieldston School, a selective private high school in
Riverdale, the Bronx, was deeply worried when it decided to
abolish Advanced Placement classes more than a year ago,
fearing the change might hurt the chances of its seniors in
the increasingly fierce competition for college.

But last month, when this year's seniors, the first class
to graduate in three decades without taking one Advanced
Placement class, heard back from colleges about early
admission decisions, the school felt vindicated. Of the 65
Fieldston students who applied early, at least 40 were
admitted through early decision to their first-choice
schools, and about a dozen were admitted through "early
action" selections that are nonbinding for the students.

The totals constituted the highest early acceptance rate
for the school in several years, said Rachel Friis
Stettler, the principal of its high school, which is part
of the larger combined elementary and high school known as
Ethical Culture Fieldston School.

Fieldston's apparently successful abandonment of A. P.
classes comes in the face of the persistent, perhaps
growing use by the nation's top colleges of performance in
such classes as a measure of a candidate.

But Fieldston is in the vanguard of a small movement of
selective private schools in New York City and across the
nation who are uncomfortable offering A. P. classes. They
say the classes, often survey courses covering a lot of
broad ground in a short period of time, restrict teacher
creativity and the ability to probe enticing themes, while
increasing stress on students.

At Fieldston, for example, teachers would rather offer a
course in the literature of New York City than Advanced
Placement English, or a course in Native American history
than Advanced Placement American history. And, these school
contend, the abolition of Advanced Placement classes will
not affect the breadth of students' knowledge base, since
most students are required to take basic survey classes
before venturing into Advanced Placement courses. Students
will still be able to take the Advanced Placement exam in
any subject.

"The A. P. syllabi are very limiting," said Heyden White
Rostow, the academic dean for Manhattan's Brearley School,
a girls' private school, which has resisted adopting
Advanced Placement classes since their inception. "There is
very little liberty for the teachers."

At least one other elite school, Phillips Exeter Academy in
New Hampshire, where a high proportion of graduates go on
to Ivy League colleges, has phased out most of its Advanced
Placement classes. And as the success of Fieldston's step
circulates among the educators of the nation's private
schools, Ms. Stettler is receiving many phone inquiries
about it.

It is not clear what impact this will have on the thousands
of public high schools and many other private and parochial
schools that offer A. P. courses. Fieldston's neighbor, the
Riverdale Country School, applauds the curriculum. "We
embrace the A. P. program enthusiastically," said Kent
Kildahl, the head of its high school. "Generally speaking,
the curriculum has been set out and tested over the years
and is a very sound system. It has not been dreamed up
hastily."

The Advanced Placement courses, designed by the College
Board, are meant to give the best high school students an
opportunity to take college-level classes before their
freshman year. About 60 percent of the nation's public and
private high schools offer at least one A. P. course, said
the College Board. Having the classes on a high school
transcript has been interpreted by college admissions
officers as an indicator of a student's willingness to be
challenged.

"Students flock to the A. P. courses with the hope that
they will improve their transcripts, making them more
desirable to colleges," wrote Matthew Spigelman, who
graduated from Fieldston in 1998, in an essay urging it to
drop A. P. courses.

At Fieldston, ambitious students felt compelled to choose
the advanced classes over courses designed by its own
faculty, like the physics of sound and Chinese history, Ms.
Stettler, the principal, said.

"The kids were very intrigued by the progressive women at
the beginning of the 20th century," Andrew Meyers, the head
of the history department, said of an A. P. American
history class he taught two years ago. "But I had to tell
them, `I am sorry but we have to stop this discussion. We
have to go on to World War I,' although I would have liked
to let the kids finish their discussion."

He had to rush through the topics because in May his
students would take the A. P. exam for United States
history, which tests knowledge of the subject's nuts and
bolts.

Ms. Stettler was sympathetic to teachers who advocated the
abandonment of A. P. courses, but did not know how the top
colleges would respond to a transcript without them. She
had the school college counselor contact every school that
Fieldston students normally apply to.

Supportive answers soon came back. "I applaud Fieldston's
proposed decision to drop the A. P. curriculum," wrote
Robert Kinnally, Stanford's former dean of admissions.
"Your decision reflects the courage of your convictions
about teaching and learning."

Harvard concurred. "We look at whether the applicant has
taken the high school's most demanding courses," said
Marlyn McGrath Lewis, its director of admissions. "But
whether the classes are designated as A. P. or not is
irrelevant. Abolishing A. P. classes won't hurt the kids."



I see this as a very positive step in the right direction - as a person who has gone through the A.P. system, not to mention the New York State Regents program, I think that these tests dictate class time in a way that shuts out critical thought and investigation of historical detail/context entirely, and for no strong justification: they sell this to the students, parents, and teachers as being necessary for getting into schools, but it's not.

The only problem is, I don't think every school would be able to create advanced class electives that would be analogous to each other - many school systems are filled with hack teachers who aren't so bright themselves and rely on a set curiculum to make up for their own lack of knowledge or interest in what they are teaching. I'm afraid that this could all backfire, and students will be judged on the relative reputations of their public school, which is something that the A.P. system has going for it - it levels the playing field a bit with standardization.


Thoughts?
 
 
Polly Trotsky
15:25 / 05.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Flux = Raised By Wolves:

many school systems are filled with hack teachers who aren't so bright themselves and rely on a set curiculum to make up for their own lack of knowledge or interest in what they are teaching.


Thoughts?


Yah, that may be one of the most antagonistic things you've wrote in recent memory. Do you have a lot of personal interaction with a lot of teachers in "many schools" or are you making a cruel blind judgement of your own past?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
17:19 / 05.02.02
quote:Originally posted by YNH3:

Do you have a lot of personal interaction with a lot of teachers in "many schools" or are you making a cruel blind judgement of your own past?


I honestly don't believe I'm making an overstatement, particularly in light of how new teachers are being recruited now - many schools will take virtually anyone willing to work as a teacher so long as they are certified, purely out of desperation. I think that it would be hard to deny that there's a great many teachers who are burnt out and have become lazy with their work in spite of good intentions - and it is nearly impossible for schools to rid themselves of this element due to tenure and teachers unions. Obviously there's a lot of great teachers who genuinely care and want to help, but it doesn't mean that the slacker teachers aren't there. Are you trying to say that ALL of the teachers are fantastic?

In terms of my own personal history, I have no chip on my shoulder here - I've experienced more or less the entire spectrum of teachers - the worst hacks to the most inspiring and challenging with a wide grey scale in between. I imagine most everyone who has gone through schooling has experience a fairly similar scale.

[ 05-02-2002: Message edited by: Flux = Genius of Love ]
 
 
Polly Trotsky
02:39 / 06.02.02
Never should have left in the question of personal history... further I must admit I may be too close to the subject to feign objectivity.

The idea sucks. Seems to be working great for private schools that regularly send graduates to Ivy League colleges: people who can afford private learning and 80k tuition bills. For rural schools even offering AP courses can be a wonderful gift to students. It means increased opportunities and credits they don't have to pay for. Had I had any inkling how much I could have saved, I'd have sold blood to take the tests in high school.

I can understand what y're saying about lazy teachers, but so much of that can come as a result of a schools resources and maybe a hundred thousand other factors. Remove the "many" and I'm with you.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
11:17 / 06.02.02
quote:Originally posted by YNH3:
It means increased opportunities and credits they don't have to pay for. Had I had any inkling how much I could have saved, I'd have sold blood to take the tests in high school.


That's only true sometimes - more and more, colleges are ignoring/sidestepping those AP credits, it's not as meaningful as it used to be. It's certainly not as impressive to colleges anymore.
 
 
Molly Shortcake
12:05 / 06.02.02
I had a wonderfull, studious experience with AP art in high school. When I got to college I was bored out of my mind and stiffled creatively. I was probably at junior level, except for design.

I wish I took more AP classes. I was smart enough but my profs wouldn't recomend me, because I never took class seriously and consequently didn't bring my grades up. They were dissapointed. Fuck the credits, the experience was invaluable.
 
 
Polly Trotsky
12:45 / 06.02.02
Flux, where is this "not so true anymore" information coming from? Pass the AP credits and get out of some of yr GER's, pay for fewer credits at uni. Sure, Harvard and Princeton don't give a damn; why should they? State schools still seem to care, and so do scholarship boards. Prepping for those tests is also fair practice for the SAT/ACT...
 
  
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