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Capital and its Antagonists

 
 
Polly Trotsky
03:19 / 05.02.02
forgive me if this goes nowhere

Months ago, Crunchy wrote:

quote:So at base what I'm suggesting is that sexual deviance might be an "authentically" antagonistic social force, unlike (for example) "identity" or other particular identity traits.

It has to do with the family, and that old-school analysis which says capital privileges the hetero-nuclear family because its the most efficient way to reproduce the working class for further exploitation. But I'm saying that analysis doesn't hold anymore, that we're at a point where capital is producing its own kinship relations and sexual identities, not just useful precapitalist nuclear families and abject Others. It also has to do with the way capital and sexuality are used to legitimate each other, the way capital is so often justified by its ability to protect the family, and the way traditional families are justified as the basic social unit of capital.


And some unregistered poster wrote:

quote: What does it mean if each is a distinct antagonist? Working that out may be the centre of your argument. If each [antagonistic force] is distinct, and capital acts to subsume each, then you have a good basis for arguing that capital cannot reform its way to equality. Very exciting.

So, um, first up I beg Crunchy to tell us whether this went anywhere. And further I wonder if y'all have any thoughts, cause quite franky I'm still excited.

[ 05-02-2002: Message edited by: YNH3 ]

[ 05-02-2002: Message edited by: YNH3 ]
 
 
Jackie Susann
03:25 / 05.02.02
It never went anywhere; I got busy with/interested in other stuff. But looking at that quote it seems like something it might be interesting to pursue...
 
 
the knowledge +1
06:27 / 05.02.02
Well money abolition is where it's at aint it? Which goes hand in hand with destruction of the family, the state, etc. Not easy.

Can't necessarily see how sexual deviancy is 'at base authentic'. I'm thinking in the same way as independent cinema is now the in thing, and being marketed as thus. Sexual deviancy is likely to become more fashionable as the days roll by, and I think that's a trend which has been revealing itself for decades (the gay movement, collectively coming out).

In terms of family being dissolved, that's been happening for a while hasn't it?

Nah. People will just change the way they spend their money and what the buy. It won't fundamentally change the economics of it all, which is the only real change that could as you've suggested emerge from sexual deviancy.

"There'll be no men, no women, just wankers". (Paraphrased)

IRVINE WELSH
 
 
Molly Shortcake
00:56 / 08.02.02
Ambivalent post

[ 09-02-2002: Message edited by: Lord Rugal Ultimate ]
 
 
Jackie Susann
04:40 / 08.02.02
I'm more interested in YNH talking about why he's excited, where he wants it to go, etc., than re-hashing points that got discussed months ago...
 
 
Polly Trotsky
15:07 / 08.02.02
Fair enuf... may take 'til Monday tho.
 
 
Polly Trotsky
02:25 / 11.02.02
Monday for y'all is so before Monday for me... Part of the excitement comes from the possibility of authentic multiple antagonists to Capital. It struck me when I read the original post, and thru the original thread, that such a theory might provide new avenues of resistance and even help explain various failures within other theories/actions.

The possibilities for discussion in just the quote above seem endless (depending on participation) and oddly centering - esp for the Headshop at that time. And, y'know, a thread that takes on so many ideas might be ideal in the face of Tom's intended shift in focus.

Read this bit: again from Crunchy's OP

quote:again from Crunchy's OP
My suggestion is that we might think about formal and real subsumptions of sexuality under capital. That would mean that originally, capital merely absorbs precapitalist forms of sex and sexuality. They're basically alien to the system, and hence potential sources of antagonism. Capital also absorbs and develops a precapitalist response to sexual deviance, i.e., violent repression.

However, this proves inadequate for various reasons (largely, I'm inclined to think, the way such a system produces zones of antagonism towards and exclusion from relations of production and consumption) and capital reorganises sexuality in a way that inaugurates a tendency to real subsumption. Specifically, sex/uality becomes commodified, it takes on the characteristics of the commodity form. Gay people aren't just weirdos to lock up, lobotomise or execute; they're a market segment.

and hey, read the whole thread, it's not that long...


So if we set to work, even lazily - thousand monkeys style - at showing this to be true, perhaps not only for sexuality, but perhaps race, gender... (even unto attacking the very notion of these), then we might end up creating a(nother) foundational argument against reformism.

This, however, is Sunday evening, and I'm being lazy.

My major questions clustered around whether the notion was meaningful when applied individually to sexuality, or race, rather than as something that could be reduced to an equation where you plugged in the [aspect of physical life], engaged its history under Capital, and laid down the same conclusion. First, are , for example, race and sexuality differently antagonistic? Is either authentically antagonistic? both? neither? If they are similarly antagonistic, is it still meaningful?

/babbling... gawd
 
  
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