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>>>Random Magick Question and Answer Thread<<<

 
  

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Wrecks City-Zen
18:56 / 17.10.02
In the spirit of Saveloy's random Q and A thread in the conversation, it might be appropriate to perform the same excercise here in our forum. Lord knows, there are enough random questions out there that do not need a thread of their own.
So g'head...
Ask us anything.

...but lets try to keep the thread legitimate.

Re:XXX
 
 
01
19:38 / 17.10.02
Why didn't my attempts at chaos magick work? Professional comic writer and multidimensional entity contact enthusiast, Grant Morrison says that it [i]always[/i] works.
 
 
Saint Keggers
19:51 / 17.10.02
1) Maybe it worked in ways you didnt notice or in ways other than what you expected.
2)Maybe (gasp) Grant Morrison is wrong.
(Personally I think the second one is more likely)
 
 
01
19:55 / 17.10.02
1. Nope. Didn't work at all.
2. You're probably right.
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
19:56 / 17.10.02
Lust for results hinders 95% of all magic...

Or quite simply, did you remember to forget?

Chaos, due to it's "no rules style", has become the instant magic "just add power".Thid does not mean it works every time. The psychic censor is a massive hinderence and can only be beaten by (hold on...) erasing your personal history through recapitulation.I hope that is self explanatory.
Have you studied the charts Peter Carol provides in the beginning of Liber Null and Psychonaut? They give you a good aproximation of the effectiveness and availability of magic at your service.It also depends on what exactly you were trying to achieve.

Last, just ride the wave,dude. Don't get all caught up in trying to make energy work for you and work with energy.Chaos is about "spur of the moment" magic, as opposed to the rigidity of ritual.Let go.
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
19:59 / 17.10.02
Also: Remember, Magic will manifest in the most easy,convenient way to not upset the flow apart from the most minimal way.

Question:Why is the Magick forum considered a "GHETTO" forum?
 
 
ciarconn
21:10 / 17.10.02
Are there any ethical parameters in chaos magick practice? Or are chaos magickians enslaved by their egos?
 
 
Papess
21:44 / 17.10.02
Ciarconn:
I would think that there were ethical measures taken in a superficial sense. Something as a preventative measure perhaps, not done out of an ethical or moral stance. Just pre-caution.

So, in a way, it is your ego defining the parameters, since it is the fear factor of reprecussion that would keep most of us in-line ethically. If consequences can be delayed, or even avoided, then what the hell eh?! Why not?

Sometimes I find that Chaos can invite the use of beings that are no more enlightened than myself and at other times, I find myself messing with forces much, much larger than myself, in terms of awareness. I think having a good knowledge of who you are dealing with can help to determine what kind of retribution might be in order.

MT
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
00:12 / 18.10.02
Just wondering: does the "magic works" thing occur in a big way? I mean, will I know that it does? It's sorta difficult sometimes to keep on believing that it's happening, and I was just wondering - did people experience some kind of blinding flash of insight?

A tangential story. Years ago, I was looking to buy an Elgar recording. At the Virgin store in Sydney - which used to have one of the BEST classical department - I got into a discussion with an old guy who used to work there. His take on things was this: "You won't understand Elgar. You'll keep listening to it, and it'll sound nice and everything, but one afternoon - usually a Tuesday - you'll be listening and God will reach down and tap you on the shoulder, and suddenly it'll all *make sense*."

Is it like that with magic? Is it convincing yourself? Or is there external "hey! I'm workin'!" things that occur to signpost you?

Help!

Also: anyone know how successful non-African-American voodoun is? I mean, is it successfully practiced elsewhere - like the UK or Australia or whatnot? Or, because there's such a sense of family line to it (as I'm gathering from Deren's book) do the loa just not work outside of classically voodoun environments?
 
 
cusm
03:15 / 18.10.02
Ghetto: I prefer to think of it as an exclusive club

Magick works: Well, when it works, I KNOW it worked. Its hard to explain without example, so I'll give one for the last time I used magick. There was some nastyness in my house that needed gotten rid of, so I set about to do so. I was planning to use insence as a smudge, but needed to light the charcoal. I couldn't find a lighter, anywhere I looked, including places I knew theywere stored. Even the kitchen stove lighter was gone. Figuring I was being fucked with, went to a drawer I knew should have one, summoned my will, announced that there would be a lighter in that drawer, and *pushed* (again, hard to explain beyond that, I used some juice and threw my will at the problem). I open the drawer, and find the lighter I needed, and finish the rit with success. Later, when I dicovered where all the buggers had been hiding, I noticed that every one of them had turned the same shade of light blue. A vulgar example, but one with immediate results. It worked because I was exactly in the right focus to do it, and was one with my intent. Sloppy, but effective.

Voodoo: I know plenty of 'em, white Americans, and it works just fine. The Loa seem to like it here, they're trying to spread. They don't care who you are, so long as you give them what they want, and they'll take care of you. They're like that. Its all kinds of big in New Orleans.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
03:20 / 18.10.02
cusm: I'd figured maybe the nawlins-based loa liked it there as there's a sort of history of voodoo being practiced there for years - I was wondering... how likely is it that they're amenable to travelling to the antipodes? Purely theoretical at this point (I ain't fucking with Ghede just yet) but you know - intrigued to see if there's any spreading been noted somewhere else...
 
 
illmatic
07:24 / 18.10.02
"Exclusive club" - nice!
I think, if it is a ghetto, it's because a lot of people aren't into it/ have doubts etc. and 'cos of it's weirdo nature, magick isn't as eaily integrated with the other fora. Some parts of magick do ask people to believe in some weird stuff that goes against the grain of our culture (this "grain" being scientific thinking.)

As to results and stuff, well, I think everybody who uses sigils or spells has that happen - it's that forgetting thing, which most people seem to "forget" about. I had that happen (or rather I had nothing happen) but I was lucky enough to have some striking experiences with dream manipulation that kept me interested. I then had enough stuff happen consistently with divination systems to keep me convinced - that was my "flash of insight" 'Koid but it was kind of spread out. If you doubt the reality of magick, through use of sigils, try another area. I sometimes wish that we'd lose the emphasis on sigils etc.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
08:25 / 18.10.02
London and Paris both have a thriving community of African Diaspora and African Traditional Religions (Voudon, Santeria, etc..) which, I suspect, dwarves the pagan/chaos magic community to a fairly large degree. Maya Deren's 'Divine Horsemen' is a good anthropological overview of Vodon in Haiti in the 1920's, but that doesn't necessarily imply that time has stood still since the book was written.

On the subject of magic working, some people don't seem to be able to get away with it all. I don't really subscribe to Grant Morrison's 'works every time' standpoint, it's more like going to the fairground and throwing hoops over coke bottles to win a prize. Some people can do it every time, some people are a bit crap at it but would probably get better with practice, some people will never be able to fucking do it.

But yes, sooner or later, you should start to get results that make you think there is something very weird going on, but this kind of thing can be fairly elusive in the sense that it's probably less likely to happen if you're looking out for it/desperate to prove it to yourself. All of the really mad results that I've had have taken me completely by surprise.

Treat it like a game. There are enough 'magickal' excercises which are effective and beneficial on their own merits and can easily be rationally explained in terms of NLP, etc.. such as LBRP, middle pillar, meditation, sigils to reprogram behaviour, and so on. So if you focus on this kind of thing as your core practice, with occasional forays into seemingly mad experimental stuff that stretches the boundaries of what you think is possible to acheive, it's likely that sooner or later you'll be confronted with something that seriously challenges your pre-conceived notions of reality and what is possible.

On the other hand, if you've been at it full on for years and years and you haven't had any results that make you think something weird is going on and it's all worth while, for God's sake stop and find something more productive to do with your time. Maybe we are all mad after all.

On the subject of ethical parameters, you could ask the similar question "Are there any ethical parameters to Kung Fu practice?". Technically, you could go around laying the smackdown on whoever you like, but responsibility for your own actions is ultimately down to you. One of the better things about chaos magic is that it does encourage you to accept responsibility for your own patterns of behaviour with regards to magickal practice, rather than implying that there's a dissapointed Goddess/Law of Three's waiting to take you task if you step out of line.

Yeah, you could do what you like with chaos magic, just as you could do what you like with your martial arts skill, hacking ability, or skills in any other sphere of human activity. It's down to you what you do with it. Having said that, I do tend to think that there is definitely something to the 'exchange of energy' paradigm. Not so much in a "law of three's" sense, but more like - if you go about town acting the big martial artist, someone is likely to chin you sooner or later; or if you use magic to acquire a string of sexual partners who you then treat in an exploitative manner like they're magickal sex puppets, you might find yourself widely thought of as a twat.

Personally, I think that the process of learning how to develop your own ethical compass with regards to your behaviour and actions, both in magical practice and life in general, is part of the process of becoming an effective magician. You have to learn when to act, and when not to act. If you're not prepared to accept responsibility for your actions, then you should probably consider your motives before you do anything, look at possible alternative courses of behaviour, consult a divinatory system, etc..
 
 
Ma'at
09:58 / 18.10.02
If your polite and give them what they want loa will go most places

My particular path owes quite a lot to voudon and santeria and I live in the UK so I would say go for it and keep us posted on what results you get!
 
 
grant
14:46 / 18.10.02
Roth: if they made it from Nigeria to New Orleans (not to mention New York City), then they can make the trip to Australia.
 
 
FatherDog
15:39 / 18.10.02
ethics: Every chaos magician, like every person, is governed by their personal ethics, however they may have arrived at them.

Chaos magic as a paradigm does not come prepackaged with a set of associated ethics, although the axioms it does contain as part and parcel may lead one to certain ethical conclusions.

Chaos magic is neither ethical nor unethical. It is (in a very broad sense) a tool that can be used to cause things to happen. These things may be ethical or unethical, depending on the situation.
 
 
cusm
16:40 / 18.10.02
If the Loa can make it to West Virginia, they can certainly make it to Austrailia

If they're cool with you, you'll know. Belive me, you'll know.
 
 
Perfect Tommy
18:43 / 18.10.02
So I thought, "New city implies new personality type implies new clothes, but I'm broke--I need a fashion servitor." And the city provided me with a material base, a white wire hanger which I've twisted into the earthly manifestation of the Clothes-Horse.

Once I sigil up a formal statement of intent along the lines of, "To locate clothes blah blah", how do I connect the sigil-launch to this material base? For all my jabbering I've never *actually* made a servitor, and all my sigils have been notebook paper plus "elbow grease."
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
20:36 / 18.10.02
PERFECT TOMMY: The second law of my magic practices is:Always give magic an outlet in which to manifest...

If you think about it, the answer lies within that "zen".
X'iang!

Re:XXX
 
 
penitentvandal
21:22 / 18.10.02
Does it work? Yes, and when you know it works, you know. Believe me. 'It isn't true unless it makes you laugh; it isn't real until it makes you cry.'

When magic's broken your heart; when it's driven you 'mad'; when it's led you to do things you'd never have thought yourself able or willing to do: that's when you'll know it's real. Until then it could all be a gedankenexperiment, a game. But when the Little Dog steps out of the Monopoly box and bites you on the ankle, you know it's much more...

Christ, how fuckin' profound am I being today?

And as to the voudoun deities - go for it. Me and Yemaya have had a good thing going for a while, and I was down with her son, Chango, a long time before that, and I'm a paaaaaaale-lookin' muthafucka. The orishas ain't racists...
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
21:29 / 18.10.02
ON ETHICS: Crowley's "Do what thou wilt..." is the standard when it comes to ethics in magick,IMHO."Do waht thou wilt..." leaves the decisions up to you being a self governing law. I always apply the law of 3 to all acts...benevolent or malevolent.Whatever you do, comes back 3 times on you...
 
 
ciarconn
21:08 / 19.10.02
Is Madonna's new video (Die another day) a quaballistic Hypersigil?
Is the tatoo in her arm the signs on the top sephirah?

And, is really the asereje song (ketchup or tomato song) a satanic invocation?
 
 
penitentvandal
09:14 / 20.10.02
I haven't seen the vid, but having seen the hideous, hideous performance art abortion that was the 'Drowned World' tour video, I can well imagine that Madge would desperately love to think it's a qabbalistic hypersigil.

Christ, that was the most pretentious fuckin' show I've ever seen. Horrible.
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
19:49 / 20.10.02
I find it most interesting when MAdonna is reffered to as this Aeon's representation of BABALON.

Could be true...

...never know.
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
20:21 / 22.10.02
Is this the end of the thread?
 
 
ciarconn
21:59 / 22.10.02
Hey, Hey! Teacher, I've got another question....
huh...
huh...

What's the sense of life?
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
22:42 / 22.10.02
Ooooh...

You mean you don't know?

Let me sleep on it...
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
22:45 / 22.10.02
I have one:

What is the mystical interpretation of the numbers 17 and 14??
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
05:40 / 24.10.02
Is part of the draw of Chaos Magick not only its high-success rate and adaptability, but also its seeming encouragement of the popular pastime of cultural tourism?
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
06:43 / 24.10.02
Despite the flaws and pitfalls of magick, what alternatives are there? Other than "he's a real nowhere man, living in his nowhere land, thinking all his nowhere thoughts for nobody..." You tell me.
 
 
Papess
02:00 / 25.10.02
Question:
Do condoms have an adverse, null or beneficial effect on Sex Magick (or Tantric or Tao practices)?
 
 
Vadrice
02:34 / 25.10.02
In my experience, condoms only fuck with direct energy work, and only then to a miniscule (though noticable) degree.
Tantra deffinatly has to do with such, but proper Tao can work around anaything and be stronger for having done so (after a fassion). That's it's brilliance.
Slippery like a pool of water.

But if you NEED the difference a condom is going to make in a working or practice, do a different working or practice.
 
 
adamswish
14:40 / 25.10.02
my biggest problem is the "remembering to forget" part of any launching I've performed.

Are there any tips you can give, or is it a case that I'm going for to "wanted" stuff and should start with the little things, you know start easy and progress.

Also I have real problems collapsing the letter string into a sigil and have used "dingbats" in photoshop to create instead. Is this okay or have I totally sucked the meaning out of the sigil's intent in doing so?
 
 
cusm
18:15 / 25.10.02
If you can look at the symbol and feel that it is magick to you, its valid. That's pretty much all there is to it. The letter process is effective because you can understand how the intent was transformed into the symbol, and the symbol represents not only the intent but the understanding of the process that created the symbol, and thus your link with the intent. Dingbats might be less so, unless you memorized the dingbat alphabet, in which case it would be just as effective. Still, you could as easily draw a random symbol that "feels right" to express the intent and it would be valid. Remember, chaos is not a restrictive science. The ways given are just some that work. There are others. Experiment.
 
 
spidervirus
23:09 / 25.10.02
is it necessary while creating a servitor to establish its form thorugh dreamworking and methods through visualization or can it be totally powered through belief? i've read phil hine's prime chaos and visited his website, but i'm not too clear on his explanations. i mean, i'm thinking theres more to servitor creation than flowcharts right?
 
  

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