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How to do things with words

 
 
Jackie Susann
07:19 / 21.08.01
this is a vague question, or series of questions, about how writing can effect 'the world'. i'm thinking specifically about theoretical and nonfiction writing, but welcome responses to do with fiction and whatever else. it's one vague question, followed by a list of questions that are bound up in it. i would really, really like people to respond to any of them any way they can or want to.

how can you make your writing change things?how, and to what level of precision, do you decide what changes you want to make? how do you work out what information, style, feeling, or whatever, you need to communicate to what audience to make the changes you want to make?

what if you don't want to or can't write in that way? what if the form you're writing in - say, an honours thesis (to pick a not entirely random example - calls for a stripping away of emotion, but what you're writing about is intrinsically connected to emotion? (how do you write 'theory' when you have to take breaks to curl up in the fetal position and cry because the stories you're 'theorising' about are so fucked?)

what if the techniques you can think of for making people act on your writing are themselves dodgy - like trying to make them guilty? or if the rhetorical forms that seem most likely to mobilise people draw their power from fucked-up historical narratives of race, gender, whatever? what if the only rhetorical forms not compromised in such ways are so experimental as to be inaccessible and incomprehensible to most people?

how do you lace your writing with sigils? how do you connect narrative with magic?

how do you look stylish doing it?
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
13:36 / 21.08.01
quote:how do you look stylish doing it? Black leather never gets old.
 
 
grant
15:10 / 21.08.01
Words have a way of fixing things, don't they.

I dunno; I just finished Riddley Walker, and part of the gist of the novel is about language and writing down reality.
(And Punch and Judy shows, and how information changes no matter what you do to keep it the same).

So, for now, I'll say writing might change things, but things change on their own too. Writing has a way of presenting things as facts, and that can change moods, but it's generally hard to tell exactly what that's gonna do in the long run.

Fixing in the sense of pinning down like a dead butterfly, or strapped to bedrock like a railroad track. As opposed to the freedom of a flying flutterby, or even a fixed-wing aircraft.

I'm gonna shut up now.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
15:37 / 21.08.01
Now feeling guilty for a flippant answer. So:

quote:how can you make your writing change things?how, and to what level of precision, do you decide what changes you want to make?Content - like Arundhati Roy and 'The Cost of Living' and context. Also style - which is another kind of content - which can challenge notions of writing, narrative, identity...

How closely can you monitor the results and control them? Hardly at all.

quote:how do you work out what information, style, feeling, or whatever, you need to communicate to what audience to make the changes you want to make?Gut. Experience. Empathy. Psychology, if you trust it. Anything.

quote:what if you don't want to or can't write in that way? What's the purpose of what you're writing? If it's a thesis, then the purpose is either to get you a qualification, or to put your point accross powerfully and well. The two are not entirely the same, obviously.

quote:what if the form you're writing in - say, an honours thesis (to pick a not entirely random example - calls for a stripping away of emotion, but what you're writing about is intrinsically connected to emotion?

I don't know. It depends on your particular academic environment. And your field. Some places will be happy for you to talk about it, others won't.

Maybe you should be writing your thesis and something a little more flexible/emotional/creative/whatever. An article for a more flexible audience, or a presentation.

quote:what if the techniques you can think of for making people act on your writing are themselves dodgy - like trying to make them guilty? or if the rhetorical forms that seem most likely to mobilise people draw their power from fucked-up historical narratives of race, gender, whatever? what if the only rhetorical forms not compromised in such ways are so experimental as to be inaccessible and incomprehensible to most people?Again, it depends on your audience, doesn't it? And on what you're trying to achieve. Although I'm not convinced that rhetorical forms themselves are necessarily compromised.

If you're campaigning, that's one thing. If you're writing a thesis to get your degree/PhD, that's another...

quote:how do you lace your writing with sigils? how do you connect narrative with magic?

how do you look stylish doing it?
If you're worried about compromised rhetorical forms, why isn't magic a problem? Forcing the world to do what you say, without even appeal...just because it's minority wackiness doesn't mean it's not power acting on the world.

All narratives are sigils.

Look good doing it? By make it good. And the leather, as I may have mentioned.
 
 
6opow
19:25 / 21.08.01
Wonderful, wonderful topic! Here's what E.E. Rehmus says about the "magic word" from "The Magician's Dictionary."

quote:The root of all magic is The Word, Ho Logos. In every culture the shaman or witch doctor is generally the person with the largest vocabulary (though, ironically, he [or she--that's a bad Rehmus!] may express him[/her] self clumsily). For the magician, as for the poet, words are fluid and changing. Puns, paradoxes and triple/quadruple meanings come and go with varying degrees of exactitude or "correctness." Magical meanings derive from the context or intention. Etymology is always strictly, historically accurate, but usually extends beyond the safe and unimaginative academic frontiers into the realm of historical intuition. Where history and genuine insight leave off and illusion begins is sometimes difficult to say.

The Egyptian God of magic, Thoth (or, Tahuti, "The Speaker"), is self-created and dwells in chaos. As he speaks, each word becomes a created thing. Hunchback: is Chaos the Void or is it merely the pre-linguistic world?

In our time when the television commercial has raped and perverted language for the sake of profit, when words have little more value than the squawkings of parrots, it is difficult to remember that there was once a mighty and living oral tradition. The true magician has not forgotten.

Therefore the adept must be adept with words. The uninitiated believe that magic is entirely the result of uttering certain catchwords or phrases: Hocus-Pocus-Dominocus! or "Hey Presto, appear! Hi Jingo, begone!" Oddly enough, this bit of folk wisdom is not as far off the mark as it might seem. Words do have power. Spells can be evoked.


and from the same book, under the entry, "meaning":

quote:It is through meaning, rather than belief, that we are able to transform reality at any level, because meaning changes from moment to moment. The work of shaman, witch-doctor, magician is precisely to provide meaning when tradition and authority have become rigid, outmoded, and useless fossils. As societies become more chaotic and disorganized, the burden on the magician grows. His [or her] task now becomes to help in the further breaking up of the old systems, to pulverize them out of existence.

Since the discovery of meaning is spontaneous, the magical work is a collection of discoveries--they must absolutely be left behind as so much excrement. The magician is interested solely in the green edge of consciousness...

When, however, societies become too fraught with magical meaning, that also becomes a burden and rigid order begins to take the place of freedom of action. Eventually, structured tradition drives out magic and the cycle begins anew.
 
 
6opow
20:43 / 21.08.01
quote:All quotes originally posted by Crunchy Mr Bananapants:
how can you make your writing change things?


You have to give your writing to an audience; moreover, the more that you write with this audience in mind, the more likely your are to influence them--it is kinda' like a game (perhaps "dropped it-got it").

quote:how, and to what level of precision, do you decide what changes you want to make? how do you work out what information, style, feeling, or whatever, you need to communicate to what audience to make the changes you want to make?

Level of precision depends largely on the tolerance of your audience: for whom you are writing will (ideally) assist in the specific words and style of language you choose. Pay close attention to your audience's vocabulary, manner of speech, and the style of speaking, then imitate it (but not simply like a parrot, put yourself into their paradigm, but remain yourself).

As far as changes you want to make, it is best to have some sort of "master plan" (kinda' like an outline) which keeps you focused. Again, the plan will be more successful if it is tailored toward the mindset of the audience. Thus, do your best to pick out what sort of audience you want to have, and then tailor your writing to that audience. Hate to throw in such cheeze, but, "If you build it, they will come."

quote:what if you don't want to or can't write in that way?

Do it anyway, or practice, practice, practice, or alternatively, don't do it.

quote:what if the form you're writing in...calls for a stripping away of emotion, but what you're writing about is intrinsically connected to emotion? (how do you write 'theory' when you have to take breaks to curl up in the fetal position and cry because the stories you're 'theorising' about are so fucked?)

Yeah, this is rough. I tend to write the passion into my conclusion. If your audience is academic, after you've "wowed" them with your knowledge, comprehension, and logical cohesion, as you wrap it up, bash them over the head with your emotive stick. As for your bracketed question, try not to take the theories too seriously (I know this is not always as easy as it sounds), and try not to take your own writing too seriously either (even harder). As you say, they are all "stories." (If all else fails, think about Monty Python's "drunken philosophers song" (even if the ideas you are working with do not come from any of the people mentioned in the song), it helps in keeping a sense of humour about the theories we generate).

quote:what if the techniques you can think of for making people act on your writing are themselves dodgy - like trying to make them guilty? or if the rhetorical forms that seem most likely to mobilise people draw their power from fucked-up historical narratives of race, gender, whatever? what if the only rhetorical forms not compromised in such ways are so experimental as to be inaccessible and incomprehensible to most people?

Try to write from the heart, but as tempered by the head. Relate what you feel to be the truth of the matter with sincerity and honesty. As for the rest, I don't really know: I can only hope that what gets written and then given away stems from a deep well of human interconnection and self-knowledge--from a position that seeks to integrate and not enlarge the shadowy nature of humanity.

quote:how do you lace your writing with sigils? how do you connect narrative with magic?

how do you look stylish doing it?


I gotta' agree with Nick, all narratives are a form of magick--some magick simply comes from a more powerful source than others; which is to say, not every sigil cast works like a charm (Pee-Ew!). And I'm sure black leather is stylish (unless you are like me and look awkward and ridiculous in most forms of leather clothing).
 
 
Jackie Susann
09:30 / 22.08.01
quote: try not to take the theories too seriously

just to clarify - theory doesn't make me cry (although, admittedly, elspeth probyn's "carnal appetites" is so beautiful it came close). the 'stories' i was talking about are the personal narratives of refugees about what the australian government does to them. which is not pretty.

thanks for the answers - digesting, digesting. and for nick and grant, who noted specific books (riddley walker and the cost of living) - what did they change? i often here people say that this book, this story, this work of art changed things, but i want to know specifically. did it just change the ways people who read it felt? did that lead to political action? some other kind of tangible change? (the film rosetta inspired laws named after it's protagonist aimed at stamping out the exploitation of child labour, for example.)
 
 
6opow
09:53 / 22.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Crunchy Mr Bananapants:
[T]he 'stories' i was talking about are the personal narratives of refugees about what the australian government does to them. which is not pretty.


Ah. Another matter entirely, and one I can only wish I had answer for--the atrocities and horrors that certain groups of people afflict on other groups of people is upsetting: why can't people look at each other and see fellow humans in the same way they see themselves and their group?

Perhaps you can channel your emotions into your argument or presentation without loosing the academic tone? (But I suppose this is part of your original question...)
 
 
6opow
09:53 / 22.08.01
Hmmm...upon further reflection: if something you are working on is upsetting you, then write it down. Write out a rant n' rave about it, pour your emotions into the piece. Then put it down, and come back to it later--there will be gems in the mess of the catharsis. Dig these beauties out and then structure a more intellectual frame around them. This is sorta' what I meant when I said, "...write from the heart, but as tempered by the head."
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
09:53 / 22.08.01
"The Cost Of Living" may or may not change anything in the long run. It's Roy's book about the big dam construction projects in India, and the protest it generated stopped a couple for a while, but the Indian government is very good at gettgin around this stuff. Roy is in court on several different cases, some against her, some brought by her. She thinks they're trying to wear her down...
 
 
Disco is My Class War
00:49 / 23.08.01
Oh, Crunchy, sometimes I think we are thinking too much the same. I was about to post a thread in the Creation on almost this very topic. But different.

I don't know, exactly. Change is always unpredictable. The effets of writing are unpredictable. I think it might help to know exactly what you want people to feel/understand/react to, in the writing. To refine that as cleanly as possible. (I'm not saying, simplify it here, but I'm saying, know what complexities you want to get across.)

I am off to start the thread in the Creation.
 
 
Jackie Susann
02:05 / 23.08.01
I feel like I have two ideas about all of this.

One - rational. If you want to make your writing change things, work out who is in a position to change things. Work out what information they would have to have to decide to change things. Work out what form that information would have to be presented in. Write it. (Obvious problems.)

Two - irrational. "The vibe." Something like (my fave) David Wojnarowicz's "Closer to the Knives". I can't help but feel like regardless of who reads it, or what gets done because of it, the existence of a book like that - which so beautifully, powerfully and compassionately shreds the assumptions underlying all sorts of fucked up things - "changes things". That it's stylishness is enough. (Obvious problems.)

Still thinking, obviously.
 
 
grant
14:34 / 24.08.01
Riddley Walker (partially annotated here) would fall more in the "b" camp -- it's about change. I don't know if it changed anything or not, but it's about the idea of shifting zeitgeist, of certain stories changing as life changes. Hard to sum up.

Excerpts from the book:
quote:I dont have nothing only words to put down on paper. Its so hard. Some times theres mor in the emty paper nor there is when you get the writing down on it. You try to word the big things and they tern ther backs on you. Yet youwl see stanning stoans and ther backs wil talk to you. (p. 161)

Seeing that boars face in my mynd that morning in the aulders and seeing it in my mynd now I have the same thot I had then: If you cud even jus see 1 thing clear the woal of whats in it you cud see every thing clear. But you never wil get to see the woal of any thing youre all ways in the middl of it living it or moving thru it. Never mynd. (p. 186)


Quote from Mr. Hoban:
quote:On the subject of Riddley's language, Mr. Hoban says: "As much as possible I tried for more than one meaning in the words. For example, when Riddley says, on page 8, 'I wer the loan of my name,' he means that he is the lone carrier of his name, living on borrowed time. Life among his people is usually hard and short."
Mr. Hoban also says, in the Afterword to the new Expanded Edition of Riddley: "I was a good speller before I wrote that book; I no longer am but can live with that."


I'm still digesting it, but the book has definitely changed my perception.

There's also something about that "b" option that makes me think of Hunter S. Thompson -- that by summing up a generation, an era, an issue, whatever, and doing it absolutely succinctly, brightly, brilliantly, you're sort of shaping the history of it (or, more importantly, people's perception of the history of it). And once you shape the history of something, you can shape the trajectory, lend it forward momentum, that sort of thing.
I'm sure current policy on drugs (and popular attitude towards drugs) in this country would be vastly different if Hunter Thompson hadn't become a spokesman (and bete noir) for the "freaks."
 
 
Jackie Susann
00:32 / 27.08.01
Oh, this is more of a plug than a contribution. I just started an online diary where I talk about this stuff, so check it out...
 
 
grant
16:50 / 05.09.01
That lip piercing/hunger striker bit in the diary would make a great fuckin' zine article.
 
 
Jackie Susann
09:29 / 06.09.01
Mmmmaybe...

Meanwhile, this is from Eve Sedgwick. What do people think?

quote:What do you think needs to change?

What representational acts could effect change?

What are the relations of address involved in these acts? (I.e., who is speaking, and to whom?)

Who is interpreting these acts, and how? How much control, and what kinds of control, do you have over this interpretive process?

What is the relation of these acts to pre-existing forms and conventions of utterance?

What is the relation of these acts to pre-existing media of public representation and advertising?
 
 
YNH
03:49 / 07.09.01
Pardon any incoherence (and repetition, sheesh), reading thru I began to feel responsible... the piss is shiraz

I don't think one writes theory without taking those moments to cry about it. Do you imagine Foucault never closed the door?

Assume your audience is ignorant in any situation, I suppose; from academic reviewers to your hick cousins. Go so far as introducing the issue if you have to, but skip nothing else. The stuff that always works best on me lays out dry facts in easy language (not simple, I just read a fascinating def. of articulation that required very little prior knowledge.) If you're looking for a feeling, try rediscovering your own "gosh wow"/"oh no" feelings when you learned what you're presenting. If it entered casually but struck you, write it that way. If it was a headline, write it that way. Does that make sense?

Your thesis is, really, an entry point: a place for showing off. Draw hexagram 23 on your forehead before you put fingers to keys and write as if the words are already changing things. Then if you still need to write the emotional side, do it, or cry, or whatever. Reread whatever later and see if it's worth throwing into the primary work (even as chapter headings.) That's if you don't want to write that way. I think you can.

quote: what if the techniques you can think of for making people act on your writing are themselves dodgy ?

The appeals you suggest are likely to yeild predictable results: guilt might get a donation?; appeals to gender might polarize around that very locus... you know? But what's left?

quote:Who is interpreting these acts, and how? How much control, and what kinds of control, do you have over this interpretive process?

So yah, this is the important bit. And while it does also apply to writing, I think it's telling that she placed it in the context of utterance. It's also slowly eating my brain. I think Gloria Anzaldua's Borderlands does a great job of interpellating multiple audiences and perhaps creating a new one as it is read. Encourage the audience to participate consciously in the text, to possibly work for meaning at some points, to autonomously make connections.

Back to the "can't" part. I think I misinterpreted... Some experimentation should be right at home in, say, an honors thesis. But I do hail from a rather pink department.

For stylish; dress like you're going dancing (or whatever equivalent) while writing. It just might show. Make sure you're comfortable sitting though.
 
 
grant
15:30 / 07.09.01
quote:Originally posted by Teela Tomnoddy:
I think Gloria Anzaldua's Borderlands does a great job of interpellating multiple audiences and perhaps creating a new one as it is read. Encourage the audience to participate consciously in the text, to possibly work for meaning at some points, to autonomously make connections.


Yeah, that one's a good one. I forgot how much I liked it -- and how much it made me see things in terms of the spaces *between* thises and thats.
 
  
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