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A helluva day for serial killers...

  
  

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STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:01 / 10.10.02
Aileen Wuornos has been executed. Yup, she did it. Yup, she admitted to it. (Though I am totally opposed to the death penalty, even she said "how many times can you execute me?" when three states were fighting over their right to fry her for political reasons (ie- "I'm the governor that fried Aileen Wuornos- do I rock or what?") Her last statement (which I have tried to find online, but been unable to) involved "The Rock" (probably meaning God rather than the wrestler), "Independence Day, like in the movie", and "the mothership". Bear in mind she had resigned herself to execution a long time ago, so this probably isn't last-night nerves. She probably WAS mad. In which case, she shouldn't have been executed by anyone's legal yardstick.

Anyway, that was just the preamble- this guy in and around Washington shooting people "may" have left a Tarot "Death" card with "I AM GOD" written on the back near a spent shell at the scene of one of the killings.

Which I figure rules out the ludicrous possibility that this was a lone al-Qaida operative (posited by surprisingly many people)- surely to say "I AM GOD" would be blasphemy to a fundamentalist Muslim?

Thing is, I'm thinking a couple of things- they never caught the Zodiac Killer, and there's still some doubt about whether Berkowitz was solely responsible for the Son of Sam killings (witnesses' descriptions tended to polarise on TWO different descriptions).
 
 
William Sack
11:45 / 10.10.02
Last statement:
"Yes, I would just like to say I'm sailing with the rock, and I'll be back, like Independence Day with Jesus. June 6, like the movie. Big mother ship and all, I'll be back, I'll be back."

...and she was mentally competent to be executed?
 
 
w1rebaby
12:22 / 10.10.02
Did really think that this could ever have been a lone al Qaeda operative? Jeeeeez.

Personally I think that this Tarot card thing is a copycat or some member of the public doing a bit of communal myth-creation. Cos, by now, we all know how serial killers are supposed to behave. People watch the news and they just can't help but want to get involved. Interactive TV innit?

Actually I'm already annoyed with this story after watching the news this breakfast time and seeing Mongommy Couny Plice Chief Charles Moose being interviewed, who leaves



very long gaps between random parts



of his sentences


like he's receiving instructions from



the space station



or it could just be a tactic to stop journalists asking so many stupid questions like "it's been 12 hours since that last guy was shot, why haven't you caught him yet?"
 
 
Harold Washington died for you
12:26 / 10.10.02
Not a thing ludicrous about the idea that this is one of Osama's boys, the tarot card could be misdirection. I think this DC sniper is some sort of foreign terrorist, possibly with white skin and non Arab, possibly mujahadeen from Bosnia or Chechnya. This is my own profiling system, consisting mainly of wild guesses that sort of make sense.

If it is lone nut or sleeper cell, it does not matter in the long run. All the mentally deranged sheep out there are going to copy-cat this attack for years to come.

Oh yeah, that crazy bitch should have been left in the hole to rot. Crazy murderers should have to suffer through their madness as punishment and entertainment for the prison guards. Execution is mercy.
 
 
deja_vroom
12:35 / 10.10.02
Not a thing ludicrous about the idea that this is one of Osama's boys, the tarot card could be misdirection

People who fly planes into buildings certainly are not that concerned about "misdirecting". The opposite, really. If it's a terrorist act, there would be an estatement of some sort by some group claming the responsability.
 
 
w1rebaby
12:58 / 10.10.02
Not a thing ludicrous about the idea that this is one of Osama's boys

Yeah. Cos there's a big history of al Qaeda snipers in America executing random civilians in small numbers for no apparent reason. And absolutely no history of American serial killers doing that.

On the balance of probabilities it is an utterly ludicrous idea.
 
 
tango88
14:13 / 10.10.02
Shooting people as a way of self expression (as opposed to making a political point) definitely seems more to the American psyche than the Arab. Especially when it is tied in with the idea of the self as the ultimate - I am God.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:35 / 10.10.02
This is my own profiling system, consisting mainly of wild guesses that sort of make sense.

Ladies and gentleman, Mr. Tom Clancy.
 
 
nutella23
16:39 / 10.10.02
I think people going stark raving mad and killing at random scares me more than any act of terrorism ever could. (Some of the drivers on our roads scare me more than any terrorist ever could, for that matter.)

I do think its a bit presumptuous to blame this on terrorists as so many are. Its also absurd to try to blame this on gun-ownership. Yes, America is a gun-happy culture as it is, but its more than that. I heard recently that Canada also has a huge number of gun-owners, and yet, for some reason, they have a much lower murder rate overall, including death by gunfire. So obviuously, its more than guns. I think it goes much MUCH deeper than that.

Also, the shooter isn't using military ordinance. A .229 round (the long rifle version, or so I heard), is the kind of round a hunter uses for bringing down say, an elk. A good scope would allow even a child decent accuracy in hitting a target at long range, which seems to be this killer's M.O. Probably someone who just went off their meds and decided it was time to kill some people.

Not to be gruesome or trivial, but it does remind me a bit of that story about the guy who hunts people on his private island (can't recall author--Conrad maybe? "Deadliest Game"?)
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
16:45 / 10.10.02
There was a program on the Anthrax scare a month or two back and the program makers seemed to put their weight behind the idea that it was most likely Government scientists who were doing it to point out how ill-prepared America was for a chemical weapon attack.

This to me seems to be of the same sort of flavour, someone trying to point out America is not ready for a serious terrorism campaign. I'm not suggesting the Bush government is involved in this, but they might use it to take away even more rights.
 
 
Harold Washington died for you
18:03 / 10.10.02
This is some horrible stereotyping. "Oh no, those backward ethnic types would only be capable of suicide bombings, or failing that, a 2x4 with a nail through it." I think it is ludicrous to believe that every America-hating terrorist would fall easily into the vainglorious suicide archtype.

It is known Osama and his crew were directly involved in Afghanistan during the USSR invasion and Chechnya more recently. I was led to believe from the news stories that the Muslim fighters were not charging into tank columns with bomb belts, but using some intelligent and extremely effective guerilla tactics. Is it that hard to remember a time when terrorists (rebels, revolutionaries, freedom fighters depending on your point of view) wanted to survive to wreak more terror?

As for the Tarot card it could be anything. The thing that makes this serial killer crap provocative is the fact it falls so very neatly into a textbook profile of some "god complex" wacko. It could of course be a wacko, but the option of a veteran enemy soldier who has seen all the good serial killer movies is not that far-fetched.
 
 
w1rebaby
18:31 / 10.10.02
some intelligent and extremely effective guerilla tactics

And these are some intelligent and extremely effective guerilla tactics, are they? I'm not seeing people exactly paralysed with fear. It's just another wacko on the TV. Did al Qaeda agents go through Moscow with a rifle in the 80s picking off people at random without telling anyone it was them? Er, no.

Be serious. The limit of any possible connection to al Qaeda is that it might, at the limits of believability, be a local nutcase who thinks he's acting in some way against the Great Satan, and might have been to Pakistan or something.
 
 
MJ-12
18:59 / 10.10.02
It's obviously a gun control advocate who's trying to make all decent, responsible gun owners look bad.
 
 
Harold Washington died for you
19:07 / 10.10.02
Yes they are intelligent and effective. Could you off 6 people and evade every law enforcement organization in DC Maryland and Virginia?

Sure, they are not paralyzed with fear, but the kids in those counties can't have outside recess. That is fear influenced decision making.

I do not feel you can compare Moscow of the 80's and D.C. of the 00's. And the fact that nothing like this has happened in the context of a terrorist attack does not mean it is inpossible, imporbably or even unlikely. I still remember the shock that the OKC bombing wasn't done by some Arab terrorist.

Do they need to advertise themselves? Was there a telegram from Osama to Bush on 9/11 that said he did it? No! You want to know why? Because (if it really is Osama behind all this) he dosen't care about publicity. He shows very little concerns for any political motives he reveals to the press. He just wants to kill Americans.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
19:44 / 10.10.02
nope, that's wrong. everything i've read about the deductions they've made re: bin laden's motives have been that he had a target audience: the muslim world. publicity was a bigtime factor in every facet of the attack, and part of the deal was Osama wanted to show the anti-american muslim world that the US was vulnerable.

i hear your contradictions, mole, sure. but what is your active motive for believing that this is a terrorist as opposed to any other mass-murderer we've ever had in America? or do you believe that Richard Speck et al were terrorists in some meaningful sense of the word?
 
 
w1rebaby
19:46 / 10.10.02
Yes they are intelligent and effective. Could you off 6 people and evade every law enforcement organization in DC Maryland and Virginia?

For this, rather short, length of time? Sniping at people from cover, with no connection between the victims? Probably. Serial killers do it, and movies aside they're not noted for being that smart.

I do not feel you can compare Moscow of the 80's and D.C. of the 00's.

...because...

And the fact that nothing like this has happened in the context of a terrorist attack does not mean it is inpossible, imporbably or even unlikely. I still remember the shock that the OKC bombing wasn't done by some Arab terrorist.

Doesn't that particular incident - which was far more likely to have been an Arab terrorist - indicate anything about the dangers of jumping to false conclusions on the basis of absolutely zero evidence?

And since when does the fact that nothing like this has ever happened as a terrorist attack, and things like this have happened as the actions of serial killers, make it much more likely that it's not terrorists? I don't see this logic at all.

He just wants to kill Americans.

This is an appallingly inefficient way to kill Americans. Now you're the one calling him stupid.
 
 
A Bigger Boat
20:28 / 10.10.02
has anyone seen Dirty Harry lately?
 
 
Slim
21:17 / 10.10.02
It should be pointed out that one of the reasons why the cops can't find this guy is because he isn't a serial killer. At least, he doesn't fit the profile of one. Using a gun, especially a long distance one, on (seemingly) random targets goes against the profile of a serial killer. Serial killers almost always pick one type of victim and make their killing up close and personal. In my opinion, the sniper is simply a mass murderer who has planned for this well in advance simply for the challenge of killing people. To call it domestic terrorism is to just use today's buzzword.
 
 
Warewullf
21:54 / 10.10.02
A note on the Tarot card. If this guy does have a God-complex, then the card could symbolise his actions. Yes, he sees himself as a death-bringer, but speaking from the symbolism of the Tarot, he may be leaving the card as a sign of the death of a previous way of life for the american people.

The Death card means the end of one cycle of life, and the beginning of another. Perhaps he beieves that since 9/11, a particular way of life for Americans has ended. They have entered a new phase, one where they cannot feel safe within their own borders anymore. A phase where they are victim to the whims of foreign killers. Perhaps he's reminding people of how much things have changed in America.



Or maybe he's just a fucking loon.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:30 / 10.10.02
Bjacques, NOT CHAIRMAN MAOMINSTOAT:

The caliber is .223, which is used by an AR-15/M-16 (and maybe others, but my best guess is the AR-15). The Armalite is a pretty decent sniper weapon. It's frighteningly easy for a determined killer to pick off victims one by one, with a little planning.

"Moscow of the '80s" must refer to Mikhail Chikatilo, aka "Citizne X" from the movie with Stephen Rea and Joss Ackland. He killed possibly 50 people over a 20-year career. He was finally executed around 1990, I think.

If the guy keeps at it, the law of averages says that someone will eventually spot him. The Tarot card bespeaks someone with a dumbass 1980s-style death metal background, like he once listened to Slayer and Venom and bought into their dimestore occultism. The fact that he left one at all means that he wants to show off,and will very likely be caught.

Zodiac taunted the cops, but he knew when to quit.

Thank the indifferent gods that most people aren't wired to randomly kill people and then go about their lives as if it never happened.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
12:28 / 11.10.02
It's obviously a gun control advocate who's trying to make all decent, responsible gun owners look bad.

Dammit, there IS an NRA letter/speech out there on the net which goes down this road. You can't make this shit up. I wish I could find it.
 
 
Harold Washington died for you
12:50 / 11.10.02
Yes Osama is doing this for his people. He is not doing this for our (US citizens) benefit, and certainly not for CNN's benefit. The fact he waited 3 or 4 months to claim responsibility for 9/11, and then that claim of responsibility coming not from some spokesman but one of those ubiquitous tapes intended for the illiterate masses of Afghanistan, says that pretty clearly.

Moscow is just a different place. Never been to Moscow, but I am guessing it is easier to move around DC, especially with 500 different bedroom communities, zillions of cars, and hundreds of miles of interstate roads never more than a few miles away. And still, I seem to remember the Chechnyans blowing up some buildings in Moscow a few years back. The political climate is also different. Today seeing as the US is the only real superpower left it puts a target two times as big on DC as it would have been on Moscow in the 80's.

And since when does the fact that nothing like this has ever happened as a terrorist attack, and things like this have happened as the actions of serial killers, make it much more likely that it's not terrorists? I don't see this logic at all.

This sort of attack has happened with some frequency during the Palestinian uprising. I will look for sources but I remember several attacks by snipers on Israeli army checkpoints. Even then I did not say it was much more likely. You do not see the logic because you are putting words in my mouth. I think it is just a likely a terrorist as not, considering it does not follow most real life serial killer profiles, and it does follow the profile of a sniper in the West Bank or during the Bosnian war. I cannot see Osama having the time or resources to plan another 9/11 every year. This attack (if it is an attack) achieves some sort of objective (American civilians dying) and requires a lot less organizational planning, money, and suicide troopers.

I say terrorist to mean a foreign operative. Domestic terrorism is just crime. (Speck and other serial killers I put in this catagory)

And nutella23, the short story was "The Most Dangerous Game" by Richard Connell.
 
 
The Natural Way
13:05 / 11.10.02
When a monkey looks in, no philosopher looks out.....
 
 
rizla mission
13:37 / 11.10.02
I think it would be funny if this shooter was a sort of egomaniacal big game hunter who'd give a spiel about how "the world of animals can no longer provide me with .. sufficient challenge. I must turn my deadly gaze toward humanity!"

Though sadly we don't live in a B-Movie filled with hammy 2nd rate character actors, so that scenario is somewhat unlikely..
 
 
Bill Posters
15:44 / 11.10.02
Ah but life imitates art, and it bears all the classic Button Man hallmarks. (They can't release the stuff about cutting fingers off yet, but they will soon.)
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
17:23 / 11.10.02
Anybody know anything about the victims? Y'know, are they all Vietnamese or all postal workers or something?
 
 
w1rebaby
18:25 / 11.10.02
I think they're all white. Apart from that there doesn't seem to be any connection.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
18:33 / 11.10.02
I heard different -- on CNN, they said most of them were minorities, but they weren't specific.
 
 
MJ-12
18:50 / 11.10.02
black, white, male, female, adults, children... the only connection seems to be they're in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
 
w1rebaby
18:52 / 11.10.02
Uh, yeah, you're right. Don't know where I got that from. I must not have been paying attention.

His victims - black, white, Latino and Indian - have ranged in age from 13 to 72.
 
 
tSuibhne
02:50 / 12.10.02
Well, now that I'm acctually not falling asleep when I get home (it's been a busy week at work) I guess I'll weigh in on the situation. For those that haven't been keeping score, I'll fill you in on my credintials:

I grew up about 15-30 mins north of the area where the first string of shootings happened. The shopping center where the woman in front of the Post Office was shot is right in front of the retirement community that both sets of grandparent's retired to (three have since died, the fourth was moved to a nursing home when she could no longer care for herself, thankfully). My second job was in that same shopping center BTW. I couldn't begin to count the number of times I've walked past the bench where she was sitting.
Currently, I live about 20 mins north of the Fredricksburg shootings (where the first survivor was shot, and where today's victim was shot) and I live about 20 mins south west of where the guy was shot in Manassas. Again, couldn't begin to count the number of times that I've driven past that gas station.

For those who are wondering. In the past 48 hours, I've had two people mention Osma's boys as possible suspects to me. Personally, I doubt it. Their MO tends to be bigger. See the recent communiquie from one of their spokesmen giving the reasons for their war on America. They feel justified in killing as many Americans as the American goverment has killed Muslims. They tend to go for the big body counts. They also tend to go for symbolic locations (WTC=the symbol of the captalism that they see destroying the Muslim world, embassies=a symbol of US involvement in the affairs of other countries [see US relations with the Shah of Iran, that lead to the fundamentalist revolution in '77], the USS Cole=a symbol of the US military involvement in the Persian Gulf, etc.). Yeah, there is a possibility it's them, but it's small, and there are a lot of other suspects.

Another reason for this is that first day. I can't verify this, and it's been a number of years since I was dumb enough to drive around southern Montgomery County during rush hour, but from the glimpses of the time line I've seen for that first day (refering to the five shootings, and ignoreing the two shootings the night before) I've gotten the impression that this guy was picking his targets. I THINK that he had enough time to drive to each location and PICK a victim out of the crowd. Much like a hunter picks a prey. As opposed to just driving up, picking someone, and shooting. He also seems to be picking people who are alone. Again, I beleave this is similiar to standard hunting tactics. In short, I think there's something to be said for the theory that this guy is hunting people. But, that is just my personal opinion. Not even sure if I'd call it a theory since I can't verify a lot of the evidence that I'm using.

Though I can't help thinking about the fact that one of the hunting seasons just started in this area.

A couple of random facts:

Currently, the police beleave the person is using one of two different hunting rifles. This comes from balistics evidence. They doubt he's using anything more powerful then that.

The first 9 shootings have all been linked. I turned the news off around 7:30 tonight, and at that time they were still testing fragments from today's shooting. But, police beleave that it is likely the same guy.

The majority of people have been minorities. But, DC has a very high concentration of minorities. The city itself is over 75% (and may be closer to 95%) african american. People around here are treating this as if he is picking people at random. The statistics do not show that he is targeting a specific ethnic or gender group.

There was an interesting report on, I beleave, channel 9 (local news) the other day. Now, this is the same station that gave air time to an 'expert' who said the Tarot Card proved it wasn't an American. So take this as you will. According to the report, initially the Montgomery County Police had decided to engage in a kind of conversation with the attacker. They figured he was watching the news, and so used words like coward a lot. I can't remember specifics, but the attempt was to get him to fuck up. But, it seems to have back fired. The police said it seemed to be confined to Montgomery County, the next shooting was in Stafford County, VA (technically outside the DC metro area, though a lot of people who work in DC have moved down there to escape the city). They said schools were safe, and the next shooting was the 13 year old outside of his school. And, what I found most interesting. I can't date the statement, but it was before the Tarot Card. The MC police chief said something to the effect of, "I hope to god, we will find some kind of explanation to this, once this person is caught." The first leaked message from the killer announced that he was "Dear Mr. Policeman: I am God." This opens the possibility, in my head, that the person was saying less that they were god, and more that they know why they are doing it. But, this is just my interpretation.
NOTE: after the child was shot, the police stopped this tactic. The child was only the second shooting since this tactic had been instituted (the shooting in Fredricksburg was the first)

On the subject of fear. People are deffinetly scared around here. I started to crack today. I left my car in a parking lot, and got a ride into work this morning. When I got dropped off at the car, I found myself shifting around while I got my coat and bag into the car. At home, while I was pulling out my mailbox key, I found myself getting close to the oppisite wall, and trying to make sure I moved around a bit. I've also got about a quarter tank of gas left in my car, and I'm trying to figure out which gas station I should go to when I need to fill up. A report tonight said that a poll of local resteraunts have found that dine-in is down, while carry out is up. Malls are seeing a deffinete drop in buisness.

I do have to concur though about the level of cooperation going on here. From all outward signs, it appears that ATF and FBI are working with state and local officials very well. This is rare. Of course, there are two main factors that probably play into this. One, location, labs are a car ride away, instead of a plane ride. And two, location, the directors of these organizations, live in the area. They and their families are at risk. And their jobs are at risk, if their organization is seen as dropping the ball. This is a very political city.

Chief Moose (sp?): personally, I think the guy is handling himself well. I tend to take the pauses as someone who is choosing their words very carefully. This guy is obviously being coached in what to say and what not to say. You also have to realize, that while Montgomery County does border one of the most violent cities in the country, it sees little of that violence. As they said on the news that first day, their murder rate had just doubled for the year. This guy never expected to have this attention when he took the job.

All and all? I'm glad I'm the only person in my immediate family that hasn't moved out of the DC area. My folks moved to the other side of the Chesapeake Bay last June (my dad retired) and I'm VERY glad for that. While I wouldn't say panic is setting in, people are on edge.
 
 
tSuibhne
03:16 / 12.10.02
Just to clarify.

The "MC police chief" that I spoke of, is Chief Moose (sp?) since the first rash of shooting were in his area, he's become the lead person on this.

There have been 11 shootings in all. At 7:30pm EST, 10 of those shootings had been linked to the sniper. The first of those shootings was at a craft store, and didn't hit anyone, so I sometimes forget to count it. If/When the shooting today is linked, that will make 11 shootings, 10 hits (8 deaths, 2 wounded). This does not include a shooting last Sept. at a beer and wine store that is being looked at as a possible dry run for the killer. It fits the MO of a person being shot by an unknown suspect, at a great distance. But, that's all right now.

When the police say a shooting is linked, that means that ballistic tests have proven the shot came from the same gun as the others. There may be a few shootings from the first rash that have not been "linked" in this manner, because of insufficient evidence, but judgeing by the lack of these kind of incidents in this region, it is safe to link them with the shooter.

To add:

How the person is getting away. There are A LOT of backroads around here. A person who is familiar with the area, would have no trouble getting away from police. When it was announced this afternoon that all white vans were being stopped on 95N (a suspicious white van was seen driving away from today's shooting) everyone I talked to could list about 10 different ways that the person could have gotten north of DC with out ever even coming into contact with 95N. I can think of 4 or 5 right off the top of my head. And I don't know Stafford County (where today's shooting was) that well. And that assumes that the person was heading towards the city. I, personally, still find it odd that the person has picked two victims in Stafford County. I wouldn't rule out a possibility that the person lives in that area.

Whether the person is a serial killer or a mass murder or a terrorist is argueing symantics. 10 people have been shot. 9 deffinetly by the same gun. The person appears to be picking the areas, if not the individual victims. If the victims have to all have something in common for this to be a serial killer, then fine. But, that doesn't change the fact that 8 people are dead, a young boy is still in the hospital (the first victim to survive has been released from the hospital), and a community is scared to go outside.
 
 
distractile
10:12 / 12.10.02
For those who are wondering. In the past 48 hours, I've had two people mention Osma's boys as possible suspects to me. Personally, I doubt it. Their MO tends to be bigger.

Certainly can't vouch for the source, which looks pretty dodgy to me, but this argues otherwise. Only circumstantial evidence, though.

Also read somewhere today that police are now taking seriously the possibility of multiple attackers.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:20 / 12.10.02
I'm still guessing it's Zodiac... or possibly Charlton Heston fucked off because he's getting his firearms permit revoked due to Alzheimers'... (joke, btw)

Multiple attackers is a definite possibility- doesn't really fit with the terrorist theory, though. Could do, but unlikely, I think.

Slightly off-topic- whether the terrorist theory on either this or the ship off the Yemen holds any water (so to speak)- that IS the first thing that comes into your (or my) mind whenever your hear about any bad shit now, isn't it? A plane crash. A random shooting. A military accident. If getting the west more paranoid than it already was is an al-Qaeda aim- they achieved that one.

Personally, I think (though, of course, I have absolutely no expert knowledge, personal experience, or evidence) that it's a homegrown US lone nutter. (Though I still think Zodiac would be worth looking into.)
 
 
Shortfatdyke
11:36 / 12.10.02
From WorldNetDaily: "An al-Qaida training videotape, captured in Afghanistan, shows Osama bin Laden's terrorists are not only planning attacks with weapons of mass destruction but are preparing to kill Americans with drive-by shootings and home break-ins, through ambushes of law-enforcement officers and targeted assassinations on golf courses."

Excuse my ever so cynical mind, but isn't this pushing it a bit? Is America now going to blame all its ills on terrorism? Drive-by shootings are hardly new. It's not as if an American is adverse to killing another American. I'm sure the sniper is a lone madman - which doesn't make it any less frightening if you live in the area, of course, but is this paranoia or propaganda?
 
  

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