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The Book of Job

 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
19:30 / 08.10.02
This book is quite possibly the most misunderstood and mistaught book in the Bible. Ask anyone and they'll tell you it's all about the extreme patience of Job and how he took everything God dished out and never once cursed God and was rewarded for his faith in God's divine plan.

This is utter shit. But we'll get to that later.

I used to hate this book more than any other in the Bible. To me it represented God completely fucking over one of his most faithful and blameless children, and for what? To win a fucking bet with Satan. I could think of no moral justification whatsoever to defend God. Even one of my professors, who was able to pull a theological rabbit out of a hat and show an example of how God was ethically justified in hardening Pharaoh's heart and screwing over all the Egyptians (a good story. Ask me about that sometime), could offer no explanation.

But that may not be important here. A small but very vocal minority of scholars believe that the author of Job was not trying to portray any sort of historical truth, merely a work of fiction. Evidence of this would be the fact that there is no reference to when the story takes place, nor is there any mention of who wrote it (or how he would have been able to. Was this guy present in the court of Heaven and just overheard God's conversation with Satan?). We don't even know for sure if Job was supposed to be a Jew or Gentile. Also, all the characters are pretty one-dimensional, which doesn't fit the pattern of the books leading up to Job. All the other heros were pretty well rounded characters. If Job is in fact meant to be a work of fiction, then perhaps a moral justification of God isn't neccessary. So then what's the point of the book? If it didn't happen, and the author isn't trying to tell us it did, then why was it included in the Jewish Bible?

First, let's go back to the first part of my post. No, Job isn't about one man's complete and utter faith in God and his divine plan. Job does in fact grow very, very angry with God. Let's start at the beginning of the book.

Job is described as an upright, blameless, and very very wealthy man. He has the perfect family for the time: seven sons, which meant his lineage goes on and he gets the dowries from the marriage, and three daughters, which meant none too many weddings (therefore none too many dowries). He's happy, and very devoted to God. God, meanwhile, is in his heavenly court when the angles pop up with Satan (I've heard that it's best to think of Satan as the adversary of Man, not God, in this story. And maybe for all the others too. This is the first appearance of him in the Bible). God points out his great servant Job, and He and Satan make a bet. Satan will strip away everything God has given him, and they'll see if Job curses God.

So satan does just that. He takes away Job's wealth and kills his family (except his wife). After the first test, Job is very distraught, but does not curse god. The second test comes, and Satan afflicts Job with painful sores all over his body, head to foot. It's so bad that Job is stratching himself with broken pottery. Still he does not curse God.

His three friends come over and mourn with him for seven days (it was customary to do this, I think. And while doing this, you weren't supposed to talk with the mourner unless he initiated the conversation). After seven days and nights of not speaking, Job finally opens up and curses the day he was born. His friends jump in with essentially "I don't want to sound like an ass, but bad things happen to bad people. You must've done something wrong to deserve this". The three rounds of speeches that follow basically run like this:

Friends: You must have done something wrong. God doesn't fuck people over for no reason.

Job: What have I done? I've done everything He's ever asked of me. Tell me of a time where I have not.

Friends: You must have sinned in your heart, then. Or done something you never told us about. And anyway, who the fuck are you to question the almighty?

Job becomes pretty impatient with everyone at one point.

"But ye are forgers of lies, ye are all physicians of no value.

13:5
O that ye would altogether hold your peace! and it should be your wisdom.

13:6
Hear now my reasoning, and hearken to the pleadings of my lips.

13:7
Will ye speak wickedly for God? and talk deceitfully for him?

13:8
Will ye accept his person? will ye contend for God?

13:9
Is it good that he should search you out? or as one man mocketh another, do ye so mock him?

13:10
He will surely reprove you, if ye do secretly accept persons.

13:11
Shall not his excellency make you afraid? and his dread fall upon you?

13:12
Your remembrances are like unto ashes, your bodies to bodies of clay."


It appears Job's patience with his friends is wearing thin. Soon, he starts on God.

Behold, he withholdeth the waters, and they dry up: also he sendeth them out, and they overturn the earth.

12:16
With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.

12:17
He leadeth counsellors away spoiled, and maketh the judges fools.

12:18
He looseth the bond of kings, and girdeth their loins with a girdle.

12:19
He leadeth princes away spoiled, and overthroweth the mighty.

12:20
He removeth away the speech of the trusty, and taketh away the understanding of the aged.

12:21
He poureth contempt upon princes, and weakeneth the strength of the mighty.

12:22
He discovereth deep things out of darkness, and bringeth out to light the shadow of death.

12:23
He increaseth the nations, and destroyeth them: he enlargeth the nations, and straiteneth them again.

12:24
He taketh away the heart of the chief of the people of the earth, and causeth them to wander in a wilderness where there is no way.

12:25
They grope in the dark without light, and he maketh them to stagger like a drunken man.


I think at one point he accuses God of laughing at the tears of the innocent, but I'm having trouble finding it presently. At any rate, Job is apparently not at all happy with God. Nor is he happy with his friends for defending God. He wants God to come down and tell him why he is being punished so that he can present his case to God.

More of his general unhappiness with God:
I cry unto thee, and thou dost not hear me: I stand up, and thou regardest me not.

30:21
Thou art become cruel to me: with thy strong hand thou opposest thyself against me.

30:22
Thou liftest me up to the wind; thou causest me to ride upon it, and dissolvest my substance.

30:23
For I know that thou wilt bring me to death, and to the house appointed for all living.

30:24
Howbeit he will not stretch out his hand to the grave, though they cry in his destruction.

30:25
Did not I weep for him that was in trouble? was not my soul grieved for the poor?

30:26
When I looked for good, then evil came unto me: and when I waited for light, there came darkness.


Job thinks God is not justified with His punishment of Job. Un-ending faith? What un-ending faith? Job here certainly isn't holding on to his magnificent and unshakeable faith in God and his plan. Quite the opposite.

The friends have no more arguments for Job, and can't think of anything to refute Job's criticisms of thier arguments. Finally, Elihu, the comic relief, comes in and basically rehashes everything the three friends have said up to this point. At this point God shows up and says to Job:

38:1
Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

38:2
Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

38:3
Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

38:4
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

38:5
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

38:6
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

38:8
Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?

38:9
When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,

38:10
And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,

38:11
And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?


And so on and so forth. Job, facing the almighty, quickly loses his anger and becomes humble. The Lord goes on anyway:

Then Job answered the LORD, and said,

40:4
Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.

40:5
Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.

40:6
Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

40:7
Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.

40:8
Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

40:9
Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?

40:10
Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty.

40:11
Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him.

40:12
Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place.

40:13
Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.

40:14
Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.


Again Job goes humble and repents.

"What the hell?" you may be thinking. "Job goes through all this trouble and grief and questions the God he loves repeatedly, and then God shows up and says 'Who the fuck are you to question me' and he shuts up?". I know. I know. Hold on a minute, though.

The epilouge comes up, and something curious happens. God has basically reaffirmed everything that Job's friends told him ("you have no right to question me"), but dig these next verses:

And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

42:8
Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.


What the fuck? God is upset with Job's friends! And pleased with Job! What is going on?

As far as God's anger towards Job's friends, I can only reason it like this: Imagine you have a fight with your significant other. It doesn't get physical, but you end up running out of the house to chill and think about what's going on. While you're gone, three friends come over to visit and discover your S.O. crying and pry the story out of her. They say "oh, don't worry, he didn't mean anything he said, he's really not as upset with you as you think, don't worry about anything, it'll all be alright". She feels better. You come home, ready to re-open communication, and she runs up and hugs you and tells you what happened. I don't know about you, but I'd be pissed with my friends for going so far as to solve my private relationship problems without my being there or even knowing. Do they know what's in my head? Do they know that I didn't mean what I said? I was really upset with her, dammit, and we need to fix it, not them and her.

That's the only explanation I can come up with. As far as Job and God being cool at the end, the only thing I can think of is this, again going back to the meaning of Israel:

"Struggles with God". I think God's saying it's cool to question him and wonder what the fuck is going on. More proof that a living relationship with God is what He wants, to me. A loving, living relationship is not Master/Servant without question. If you think your lover/spouse/best friend is doing something to purposely hurt you, you have three choices, right? Walk out completely (which means walking out on your heart, which you have given willingly to the other party [god, that sounded so lame]) or staying and being a doormat, which isn't a real relationship. Or the third choice, which is far scarier than the other two, because it involves putting yourself in the most vulnerable position possible: putting yourself on the line and asking in all honesty for the other party to tell you What the Hell is going on. You don't think this is scary? Then what's with the "I'll dump them before they dump me" game? It's people trying to avoid having to be in that position. Your putting your heart on the table with the hammer hanging above it. That's what Job was doing, and I think the Book of Job is telling us that that's what God wants us to do. That kind of honest questioning is important in a deep, loving relationship, right?

P.S. You'll note that I don't solve the Problem of Evil in this post. I don't think it's important to the real purpose behind the Book of Job, but I do think it is incredibly important to anyone who follows an ethical monotheistic religion to consider it.

So...any thoughts? I had to leave out a bunch of quotes, because it's a freakin' long book, but I think you all get my point.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
19:55 / 08.10.02
By the way, I am well aware that there are holes here and there in the above post, and I promise we'll get to those. Simply put, I'm trying to find some level of profundity in the Bible again, and could use some help.
 
 
Wrecks City-Zen
20:13 / 08.10.02
Paraphrased from Job:

God:Hey Satan, where you been?

Satan:Walking the earth...

This book, when I re-read it after being un-doctrinated, really made me rethink the supposed rivalry between God and Satan. The number one point: Satan is controlled and answerable to God God used Satan to torment Job... That takes much to get over.

Johnny O - I have really been enjoying your biblical review. Perhaps you might start one on the book of Genesis?
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
20:26 / 08.10.02
Johnny O - I have really been enjoying your biblical review. Perhaps you might start one on the book of Genesis?

I was actually going to do that, but it was so long that I decided to just focus on the story of Abraham and Isaac/Ishmael. A bunch of shit happens in Genesis, but I guess I could start with the not one but two creation myths detailed in it.

This book, when I re-read it after being un-doctrinated, really made me rethink the supposed rivalry between God and Satan. The number one point: Satan is controlled and answerable to God God used Satan to torment Job... That takes much to get over.

Yeah, definately weird. "Satan" comes from "Shaitan" which means "Adversary". Adversary of who? God? Maybe, maybe not. I like the idea of Satan being the adversary of Man, not God. I'm not sure why.

A professor once told me that Elie Weisel(sp?), the author of Night, wrote a story about when he was in a death camp and two Rabbis put God on trial for allowing the Holocaust. Although that really did happen, the story was fiction in nature, with humanity prosecuting God for crimes against humanity. And guess who was the defense attorney for God? You got it: Satan. I have got to read that.

Oh, and according to Weisel, the verdict for the holocaust case was "guilty". And after the verdict was read, the Rabbis lead everyone in prayer.
 
 
remorse
22:33 / 08.10.02
Johhny O, I think you nailed that significant other anolgy right on the head. God was mad for others speaking for him, where they had no business doing so.

lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

This kind of makes me feel like God knew that the terrible things he was doing to Job were bad, and in afterthought, he should not have done them. The idea of Satan and God waging a bet makes a pretty interesting story. I would like to read some more on that.
 
 
Stone Mirror
03:47 / 09.10.02
My favorite part is where Job basically asks God, "Why are you doing this to me?" and God essentially replies, "Who wants to know?"
 
 
—| x |—
05:36 / 09.10.02
"This book, when I re-read it after being un-doctrinated, really made me rethink the supposed rivalry between God and Satan. The number one point: Satan is controlled and answerable to God God used Satan to torment Job... That takes much to get over."
~Rexxxy

"Yeah, definately weird. "Satan" comes from "Shaitan" which means "Adversary". Adversary of who? God? Maybe, maybe not. I like the idea of Satan being the adversary of Man, not God. I'm not sure why."
~Johnny O

Yarr. I'd go with "adversary of Man." I think (and I recall writing about this here quite some time ago) that originally the notion of "Satan" wasn't even connected to a specific angel; rather, it was an angel acting in a specific role on God's behalf. It would be an angel who was sent to test some poor human's faith--like in Job. In other words, Satan wasn't a definite description which referred to the one and only, but signified a role which any angel could occupy.

It is later when we get Lucifer being connected with the one and only Satan, and the idea of this word as referring to a role fades from memory.
 
 
Stone Mirror
13:02 / 09.10.02
In Jewish mythology, ha-shaitan, "the adversary", was the name of a position rather than a specific angel. Ha-Shaitan was effectively Heaven's district attorney: when you died, and your soul was brought before the Heavenly Court, Ha-Shaitan was the one who accused you of all the bad things you'd done. Your guardian angel acted as counsel for the defense...
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
15:02 / 09.10.02
It is later when we get Lucifer being connected with the one and only Satan, and the idea of this word as referring to a role fades from memory.

I think it was the intertestament period, when that persian religion, the one that begins with a "Z" (zoarastrianism? something like that, anyway), inluenced Judiasm with it's Completely Good guy v.s. it's Completely Evil guy duality.
 
 
grant
15:30 / 09.10.02
Zoroastrianism, yeah. That's the one - but it may predate the Book of Job. I'm not sure. When does the official "intertestament period" start?
 
 
Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?
15:37 / 09.10.02
Zoroastrianism. It isn't that spooky, it isn't that arcane, it's a living religion and further information on it can be found here, or with Google.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
17:13 / 09.10.02
Zoroastrianism, yeah. That's the one - but it may predate the Book of Job. I'm not sure. When does the official "intertestament period" start?

Zoroastrianism! That's it. Wasn't Freddy Mercury a Zoroastrian? Damn, that cat could sing. Anyway, back to the point...

I think it probably does predate the Book of Job. Although the "official" dates of the birth of Zarathustra range from 1000 bc to 400bc or something crazy like that, I think the intertestament period began somewhere around 200 bc (not sure, though). Does anyone know when Israel was under Persian rule, exactly? That's more than likely when the influence was made, right? So I suppose the dates of the intertestament period and the Persian rule should coincide at one point, if I'm correct.
 
 
grant
18:35 / 09.10.02
Oh, right, yeah - Persian rule.

And on the living religion thing, I had a weird experience a couple weeks ago, when I went to a local Indian restaurant the evening after finishing a big story on Zoroastrian prophecies and noticed that behind the cash register they had the *same picture* of Zarathustra as we'd used to illustrate the story. Weird. I asked the lady behind the register about it, and she said her manager "was a Farsi."

Not that this has anything to do with Job.
 
 
grime
13:21 / 10.10.02
Great topic!
after reading all this is think the reason that god bitched out job's friends because they were wrong. He was happy with job, because he was right: he was a good guy and god destroyed his life for no good reason. God was being an asshole and job called him on it but his friends just made excuses or accused job of some imaginary wrongdoings. i think god was pleased with job for staying true to his convictions and not giving up.

sure he kinda wimped out when god showed up, but come on! anyone gets pretty humble when god pulls all his showy "voice-from-the-whirlwind" routine.
 
 
Sharkgrin
21:04 / 10.10.02
F' Milton. I like porn, gambling, and virtual combat games, and I don't blame external temptors when I can't back off or balance them.

1 - Outside of the Book of Job, the adversary is mentioned a whopping three other times in the Old Testament.

2 - One of the Persian (or was it the Philistines?) old leaders name was Shaitai.

3 - The Israelites came, wioed out other tribes, had internal squabbles, and did their own thing, but prior to job rarely anthromorphizes/personalized/characterized big time bad guys.

I hypothesize the President Bush of ancient Israel had to divert domestic attention of internal problems and demonize/defame/write National Enquirer articles about some external point of focus.

What inspired the ancient prez? Ancient stock markets get eaten by the ancient Bear? Ancient daughter and nieces snort too much ancient rock? Ancient interns not put out like the interns of predeccessers?

VR
The Shark
Herald of Lawsuit-Happy Divinities Everywhere
 
 
Seth
23:31 / 10.10.02
Johnny O: That really is a superb examination of the book. Big hug and lots of love for caring enough to examine it so well. I've emailed this thread to several Christians I know.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
21:30 / 11.10.02
Thanks, exp. We were studying this in my bible class, and the professor is a lot of fun. I knew it'd be a fun class when he started off by saying "the basic respect you should give a book, any book but especially a book that you believe is holy, is letting it speak for itself. If you've come in here with preconcieved notions on what this book is saying, you will not do well in this class." That's right, he can speak in italics. And he gives me new ideas, which is cool.

1 - Outside of the Book of Job, the adversary is mentioned a whopping three other times in the Old Testament.

Could you tell me where, and if he is called "the advesary" or "the lightbringer" in these three others? I mean, one is a specific name for a specific angel, and the other is more than likely a name for a title or job so those should be counted as two (or maybe more, for all we know) seperate entities. I know there's a mention of Lucifer in Isaiah, but I'm having trouble finding the others.
 
 
Vadrice
00:36 / 12.10.02
has anyone read J.B., by Archibald MacLeish?

It's a play in verse- a retelling of the book of job. God and Satan are Carnival workers who sell balloons and peanuts.
All of my work and understanding of the book of job is tainted by this play, so I just figured I'd warn you.

I always looked at Job as a lesson on arguments. Job's arguing (with God) always struck me as a sign of his faith- He believed in God enough to try to goad God into telling him why he was tormenting him so- not as such to tell him to stop.

It struck me as a story of pride. Job always struck me as highly arrogant. Rather in the image of God, actually.

And, of course... the Devil is the pragmatist in the story. Hir role is not as much the adversary of man or God as much as the adversary to man's relationship with God. An adversary to a give and take between the two.

At least in this story. My biblic might has dwindled quite a bit in the past few years.
I blame postmodernism and Eastern Philosophy.
 
 
Vadrice
00:51 / 12.10.02
Oh yeah... and lazyness. I blame lazyness most of all.
 
  
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