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Professions/role and personality traits

 
  

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Goodness Gracious Meme
15:04 / 30.09.02
Inspired by Janina's fascinating point in the 'what's the point of Classics thread in the Head Shop':

"I have a friend who went to a public school with a mindset very geared towards the classics and he is the epitome of existential angst. There is a certain mindset attached to the classics, an old boys network, dead language, let's push the good old days where life was simpler atmosphere."

And by Ganesh responding to the question of why people want to post to and respond to very personal information: that he's a 'professional nosey parker'.

I'm interesting not just in why people choose to work (not neccessarily for cash) in specific areas, but why they're attracted to them, and whether there's a feedback in terms of some jobs/paths stuntuing some personality traits and affecting others...

Been talking to a few friends who are academics recently, I had a real love/hate relationship with it, and came to the conclusion that it attracts people who want this tiny hermetic world, and that often they suffer from 'brain in a bottle' syndrome, so can be highly intellectually gifted while being staggeringly emotionally and socially stunted. And that to succeed in academia they have to want to accelerate this, not to become more rounded people.

And that in cultural studies, because a lot of hte works's so personal, you get alot of angstyness, but also some kind of engagement with sections of the world... which is the only link i can find between it and my current field, counselling, which attracts people whose need to engage takes a really basic and unsubtle form, who are interested in people and professional noesy parkers... and have often had pretty tough lives/are fucked up/working through alot... And in the past, it being expensive training and hippyish, tend to be very middle class prosperous hippy types

Similarly, a friend observed that anthropology academics are often really angsty, becaseu they spend so much time worrying about and reading the tiniest cultural signifiers for hijacking/exoticising tendencies...

What do people reckon? What's the mindset of what you or others do?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:09 / 30.09.02
Mine's easy- I'm a press monitor by trade (as they used to say in the old folk songs) and personality-wise am an information & current affairs junkie, and love reading. Being a bit fucked in the head does wonders when you work the night shift too.

My ideal job, however, relates more to my mindset than my actual one- I wanna be an English Lit lecturer. I just have to get my shit together to do my MA. That would be perfect- reading, writing, TALKING to people about books... oh, and that whole "sense of achievement" education making the world a better place kind of thing, too.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:10 / 30.09.02
It does also work the other way round... reading the papers every night has made me far more strident in my views. And paranoid.
 
 
grant
17:57 / 30.09.02
I was almost an English professor, but stopped at the Master's and became a tabloid journalist.
In the American wacky tabloids, not the celebrity-driven ones.
This allows me to plumb depths of weirdness in the guise of "research" and "looking for leads".
Barbelith is rather productive as a source of leads, in the Lab, at least.

I'm well suited for this, my friends tell me, because I'm a prankster and an obscurantist. You kind of have to be. You also have to be rather tolerant of editing & of sort of "becoming" other people. Stories in the wacky tabloids are generally written from a pretty transparently biased point of view, and HAVE to be done convincingly, or else they just don't work. No winking at the reader. So I get to channel right-wing eschatologists from time to time.

I'm also suspecting now that the higher up in any organization you get (or even the longer you stay with any one organization) the more the job starts shaping itself to your personality. The more the things you like get streamlined and emphasized, and the things you don't like get all downplayed and gradually forgotten. Until, of course, some boss comes by and realizes you've got a huge backlog and fires your ass.

Hmm.
 
 
Persephone
18:54 / 30.09.02
Want to hear something awful? Yes, you do. One of my early Myers-Briggs inventories turned up a result that went "You are so lovely and self-effacing, you are so happy to help others whilst having no particular desires of your own, you will never be a great person but perhaps the helper of a great person," which I promptly crumpled up in a fit of rage! And retook the test cheating so that I got the desired "you are the lion-like leader of your generation."

But I cannot deny that I identified with the housekeeper's soliloquy in Gosford Park: "I am the perfect servant..."

And what is my trade? What is the thing I do so well, I never worry about not having bread on my table? Secretary.

Kill me now.
 
 
Ariadne
19:42 / 30.09.02
I did one of those tests at school and it said I should be a journalist. But everyone told me I wasn't tough enough and so I faffed around for years, doing jobs I hated, until I fell, utterly by accident, into a journalism job. And I loved it.

It's true that I'm not tough enough to do the fleet street hack thing, but there's more to journalism than that. I'll just hang out in the business/tech backwaters of journo land, thanks. I think you have to be nosy, a bit confident in terms of going and asking stuff, a bit precious about getting the 'real story' (though you get that beaten into you pretty fast)

... actually, this thread is very bad for me, because I've had a bad day at work and so I've been sitting here for 20 minutes trying to finish the above and thinking "shit. actually, I'm all wrong for this job..." I'm sure I'm not. I'll just go and sulk in the corner for a while and come out all journo-ish again.
 
 
Ariadne
19:43 / 30.09.02
Ooops. Self-indulgent threadrot above - please ignore! To be a journalist you have to be a mopey cow, it seems, and I fit just fine.
 
 
grant
19:44 / 30.09.02
Actually, I rather enjoyed being a secretary, although I preferred the job title "factotum".

My other occupations of choice, besides tabloidista, would be:

* screenwriter
* butler
* cult leader

in that order.

I'm not sure what that says about me.
 
 
Lurid Archive
20:09 / 30.09.02
...came to the conclusion that [academia] attracts people who want this tiny hermetic world, and that often they suffer from 'brain in a bottle' syndrome, so can be highly intellectually gifted while being staggeringly emotionally and socially stunted. And that to succeed in academia they have to want to accelerate this, not to become more rounded people. - BiP

I suppose that is at least partly justified. Academia is about working obsessively, to some extent. But on the whole your cooments don't really reflect my experience of academia, especially the angstiness. I wonder how much that has to do with the disciplines involved? Perhaps little. I don't know, but I keep mulling over the Arts and Science divide, especially here on Barbelith.

In what I do there is a fairly well established correlation between ability and autism. Well roundedness isn't really a big feature, but this is as much a cause as a symtom. Actually, mathematicians tend to be both very absorbed in what they do and aware of the geekiness of it. As such, this tends to suppress the arrogance of recognised intellect, though not entirely. Also, it can be quite relaxing being round a bunch of people with few social skills. Which is both a comforting and a disturbing thought: I am one of them.
 
 
w1rebaby
21:15 / 30.09.02
Developmentally, I suppose a lack of childhood affirmation might have led to a personality that seeks non-human approval, manifesting through computers in this case. Programming offers approval for solving logic-puzzle problems, sometimes at least, which is far easier to get if you have grown up unable to get it by other means.

However, I'd say that knowingly working in a position where I am treated worse than others, to make money for a system that I hate, in an industry with which I have significant ethical problems, is a sign of a self-loathing personality. Either you don't realise, you don't care, or you hate yourself. I don't know whether this aspect of personality has led specifically to this job, but it's a useful trait to have to succeed in that world. Ultimately a bit counterproductive, of course, but carry it on until your mid-life crisis and the company's got what it wants out of you.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
11:28 / 01.10.02
Lurid: cheers for responding, was thinking of you. I agree, from the other side of the divide, and i'm quite interested in the differences between science/arts&humanities academia in this areas. This thread also partly comes out of discussions with my sister, a researcher in medical epidemiology. during my MA, she'd occasionally come down the pub with us, and she found our academics pretty bizarre... a, for pubbing with their MA students, for being reasonably young, trendy, fashiony, often quite loud, talked alot about personal stuff etc....

She once described it as a 'you're not in Kansas anymore' sensation... there were things that she recognised from 'her model' of academia, but also things that were totally alien...
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
16:03 / 01.10.02
Academic historians are on the arts side and they are most definitely not young or trendy or fashiony... I might need another couple of months for observation before I can answer this with accuracy, but as a general rule they/we tend to be pedantic sorts, capable of reams of donkey-work for no great result (this is why I am so good at crappy data entry jobs - no real difference between that and trawling through a christening register), with excellent memory for detail but much less good at theory (especially in Britain and especailly there at the older universities - newer foundations tend to attract a much more lively crowd). I have no head for theory at all - I can hardly even cope with the classic 'what is a historical fact' debate...

So, slightly unworldly types but generally tenacious...
 
 
Lurid Archive
18:48 / 01.10.02
fridge: you really need to deal with that, man. That sounds like you are having a really bad time of it.

BiP: In my experience, the moods of different departments can be quite diverse. Some are friendly and mix with the graduate students, while others do not. I think that proper science can be a bit staid because of the attachment to labs and all the responsibility that involves. In my view, cultural differences between arts and science are learned and unhealthy. The sharp divide between the two is a barrier to well roundedness which is often exaccerbated by an academic focus on a particular discipline.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
14:18 / 02.10.02
Lurid: spot on, on the divide perpetuating the problem. I deliberately phrased my description in pretty unsubtle terms as i think it reflects how people on either side of teh divide see each other. and some of my tedious prejudices!

And Kit-Kat, take your point. Perhaps there's a correlation between the age of a subject and the attitude of the academics within it. Your description of historians reminds me of some of the more 'trad' art historians I was taught by, although perhaps with an extra dollop of artistic pretension!

And interested by your correlation of data-entry and historical fact checking... Always hated both, as much more flibbertigibbet/generalist (and therefore lousy academic!) cultural studies/visual culture type, wonder if it's significant that my stint in the seccy trenches took the form of PA work - juggling sixteen plates at once while gluing a smile on your face for your boss/supervisor...
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
17:19 / 02.10.02
After seven years of popping in and out of school, not knowing what one specific thing I wanted to do out of the thousands of things that I'm interested in, acknowledging that I enjoy and can do academic work for its own sake but ultimately feeling empty and pointless after doing it for any length of time at all, and generally just spinning (and, as I've noticed upon my recent return to school, wearing down) my eternally-indecisive wheels, I've decided that I want to be an elementary art teacher. And it makes sense. As a general matter of course, I want to be a positive force in the lives of others but also pursue my own selfish interests. This way, I get to study art and ultimately do something positive w/it that'll give me some sense of purpose. I get a great sense of release out of creating, and I would like to be able to inspire kids to do the same. I think it'll be exceptionally rewarding.

Ask me in another year, though, when I will have inevitably changed my major for the umpteenth time.
 
 
Lurid Archive
20:13 / 02.10.02
But aren't you actually getting annoyed by self regard and narcissism, rather than a more abstract lack of disiplinary roundedness, BiP? Maybe I haven't quite understood what has pissed you off.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:55 / 02.10.02
I got into electronics engineering largely because I want to take the back off the universe and see how it works. I have a strong feeling that this is true of most people in the physical sciences.

My chosen future career is writing. I can't tell you how I got into that, for much the same reason that fish can't tell you how they got into the whole "water" thing.
 
 
woodswalker
10:26 / 03.10.02
I've just completed a course of studies to become a massage therapist, and am anxiously awaiting the results of my state board exam so I can begin my business. I have worked at a lot of things, carpenter, salesbeing, mechanic, and most recently 10 years for a company - most of which I spent surfing the net for government bids which my company could quote. I am drawn to my new career path specifically because of the people involved in the field, both practitioners and clients. There are lots of old hippies and new age types and I enjoy the sense of exploration and discovery that surrounds a hands-on healing session. There's very little of competitiveness and territory seeking and lots of opportunity for open hearted sharing. I choose to live a life where sharing, discovering, and caring are the prominent values. Good question
 
 
Cat Chant
10:51 / 03.10.02
personal: 'other people's story syndrome'/veteran witness/mildly pissed off to weeping with frustration that I am not a fictional character.

professional: secretary/transcriber, fan writer, cultural theorist. Meme laboratory/site in which other people's stories produce their outcomes. Sustained attempts to disappear entirely into other people's writing (though, oddly, known as a fanwriter with a higher than usual proportion of original characters & Mary-Sues [or 'authorial insertion characters' as the PC term is]).
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:04 / 03.10.02
Lurid, will have a think about that and come back to you.

Christ, reading over my own posts again and noticing how pissed off I sound with academia, seem to have a real problem with it. Yikes. Lots of hostility and anger there. And that's the counsellor in me in action!

"There's very little of competitiveness and territory seeking and lots of opportunity for open hearted sharing. I choose to live a life where sharing, discovering, and caring are the prominent values. "

This is great, and rings true for me as well. And explains neatly why the more work I do in counselling, and groupwork particularly, the more hooked I get. For me, working like this is utterly addictive.

And also makes me realise that one of the places I'm doing this kind of work at the moment, that fits the 'addictive' tag, is an all-woman space, and that there's something I find hard to define that makes it different, and contributes to me loving the work.
 
 
Bill Posters
15:09 / 03.10.02
Been talking to a few friends who are academics recently, I had a real love/hate relationship with it, and came to the conclusion that it attracts people who want this tiny hermetic world, and that often they suffer from 'brain in a bottle' syndrome, so can be highly intellectually gifted while being staggeringly emotionally and socially stunted. And that to succeed in academia they have to want to accelerate this, not to become more rounded people.

Ya. There's a comment somewhere made about Aldous Huxley and his wife (sorry for the sexism / horrendously traditional gender roles here folks, it was the 1950's). He was hyper-clever and socially useless, she had few qualifications or intellectual interests. A visitor commented that "she, knowing nothing, understood everything, whereas he, who knew everything, quite obviously understood nothing". Focussing on the intellect handicaps one in other areas, which is why I always find it amusing when people are intimidated by academic types. Their choice, but I myself find it hard to be intimidated by someone who will happily spend three hours looking for the spectacles which are on top of their fucking head the whole time. And devotes their whole intellect to a very narrow area, knows more about less, "fling themselves into an intellectual obliette" in John Fowles' words. I lost my all-round knowledge years ago, an occupational hazard.

More specifically, social scientists (by which I mean sociologists like myself and, I guess, anthropologists) are always misfits in the first place but then the sense of outsiderness, I find, has to be cultivated and tended... being there but watching as well as doing... "the eye in the centre of the storm", as a collegue was once described. It's exhausting and alienating, but necessary for the job. The best analogy I can think of is a metaphor in Iain Sinclair's Radon Daughters where there's a guy who is addicted to X-rays, which are slowly eating him away somehow... he needs to get that transparency of vision but doing so is dangerous and making him ill, perhaps even killing him, I don't recall. Dunno who it was who defined social science as 'the study of people who don't need to be studied by people who quite clearly do' but they were right.

Dunno... I have thought about leaving academia for this reason but my misfit tendency will always be there... not sure there's much point in just being a third-rate lawyer with a mild case of alienation. But yes, I agree that academix might well make careers out of angst of some sort. It's a bit compulsive, a bit neurotic. But then, so are a lot of careers, especially 'creative' ones, and in my defence I am slightly sceptical about this notion of a "well-rounded person" sometimes. Was talking to an artist who said he didn't paint 'cos he wanted to, he painted 'cos he'd go mad if he didn't. Burroughs said pretty much the same about his writing. That's what it's like, sometimes, like it chose me, not the other way round.

She once described it as a 'you're not in Kansas anymore' sensation... there were things that she recognised from 'her model' of academia, but also things that were totally alien...

Yeah, when I did medical sociology it (obviously) involved interacting with 'medical types' and there is a different 'personality type' and a different subculture to be dealt with. I note that Cultural Studies is a little more hippie-ish than both the mainstream and other bits of academe, hence what sis noted about expression of emotion or personal stuff. I'm no expert here tho', so I'm sure the good Doctor 'Nesh will tell us all about the realms of the medical.
 
 
William Sack
16:13 / 03.10.02
...not sure there's much point in just being a third-rate lawyer with a mild case of alienation.

Fucking tell me about it...
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
16:30 / 03.10.02
care to expand?

"being there but watching as well as doing... "

eek. this I relate to frighteningly well. In doing group work you are aiming to be congruent, empathic and to interact with genuiness but you are also holding back, putting your own stuff in storage to focus on other people. Now i think about it, there's something quite perverse about people who want to work with emotions putting themselves into positions where they have to simultaneously be deeply open to their own feelings, and 'hold' them at arm's length. There's a weird tension there, that is part of what I find fascinating about doing this kind of work. You are usually someone pretty social and interested in people who deliberately sets up lots of one-way relationships.

hmm...
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
16:42 / 03.10.02
"but my misfit tendency will always be there"

Oh really???

*Rolls up sleeves, pages Dr.Ganesh and nurse ZoCher*
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
16:53 / 03.10.02
oh, and I got curious and just did an online meyer-briggs, which has me down as a Healer; the Keirsey and Butt descriptions are worryingly accurate.

blimey.
 
 
Lurid Archive
18:29 / 03.10.02
ooohhh! Give us the link and we can do a contrast and compare.
 
 
Persephone
18:40 / 03.10.02
I loove Myers-Brigg. I think it says in my type that I'm the sort that loves Myers-Brigg.

There's a sorter on www.keirsey.com Unfortunately, I think now they only tell you two of the letters & if you want to know the other two, you have to pay. I don't know when they started that.

Depending on the day, I'm either a Mastermind (thinky) or a Counselor (feely) --but more Counselor these days, now that I'm not producing theater (which makes you very hard.) Anyway the funny thing is, the photo for Mastermind is Ayn Rand and the photo for Counselor is Eleanor Roosevelt. No wonder I'm screwed up, swinging between those two.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
23:00 / 03.10.02
I'm a subeditor. Cynicism is fairly rampant amongst us, given that we spend a lot of time picking up after people's mistakes, and turning their oft-unreadable prose into something quite tasty. I think there's a lot of "nobody UNDERSTANDS!" feelings in the subbing community purely because most people don't really have a clue what we do, or that there's more to it than just using the fucking dictionary.

Hmm. And relax.

I think it's probably only natural that I'm doing this. I did Eng. Lit. at uni, and have always had an urge to kill Misusers of the Apostrophe. Laxity in printed work really annoys me, so... I don't know. A crusade? Call it what you will.

(Yes, I know they're three periods, not an ellipsis. Shut up.)
 
 
that
10:00 / 04.10.02
I do think you can make any job meaningful, if you do it right - I liked working in a shop, because I found being nice to customers genuinely rewarding. I also love, say, painting walls, 'cause anything physically tiring is highly satisfying.
 
 
Sax
11:40 / 04.10.02
Hack, pure and simple. Although with a twist of subversion, which keeps me sane.

Been in regional journalism for (counts on fingers)... 13 years. Crumbs. Started off as cub reporter, dabbled a bit in business/industry writing, which I found incredibly dull apart from the industrial relations/strikes stuff, then did a bit of investigative stuff, which was good but I found I never had the required time to devote to really getting under the skin of a topic on a regional newspaper.

Then made the jump to newsdesk, ending up as news editor. Moved papers last year and am now features editor, which means I get to do more in-depth stuff as well as a lot of entertainments and lighter material. Main problem is that as middle-management level there's just too much damn paperwork.

As to mindset... sometimes you've got to be hard to be a journalist. Journos get a bad press (ha) but most of the ones I know are left-leaning, intelligent, political and sensitive. It's just like a switch goes in your head sometimes, and you've got to get that story, no matter what... It's an adrenalin buzz and a speed high. I've spent days on jobs and come home and found myself shaking and empty as the buzz left me. That was more when I was doing foot-in-the-door stuff rather than now; I've mellowed somewhat and take more pride in a well-crafted piece of writing than turning over some corrupt politician or copper or something.

Many times in the past 13 years I've hated the job. Standing on a doorstep in the pouring rain asking the mother of a dead child to let you in the house. That takes a certain type of something. I'm not sure what.

Most of the time it makes you feel like a shit. Then occasionally you get a letter from the mother of a dead kid who says thanks for listening, she was able to say things she couldn't tell her family, and seeing it in the newspaper made it real for her, helped her to come to terms with it, and showed her how important her child was thanks to the barrage of calls and letters that followed the piece.

That's a true story. That's my justification. I fucking love it, I'm afraid.
 
 
Persephone
14:00 / 04.10.02
I do think you can make any job meaningful, if you do it right

I do really enjoy my jobs, despite not necessarily liking what they may say about my psychology. I did have one job that I couldn't make work at all, and that was my last year's stint as a technical writer & I know the reason was because --fridge will probably understand what I'm saying-- it was writing validation procedures for, shall we say, a multinational pharmaceutical and medical device company & I shall never again work in a regulated industry. It was like living with the Ents. The unbearable slowness of being. Which some people seemed to thrive on.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
14:19 / 04.10.02
the test I did is here. like the idea of the compare and contrast...
 
 
Lurid Archive
14:49 / 04.10.02
Yeah. I've done that one before. I repaeted it and again got INFP. I seem to be pretty consistent in this, even though I'm sure that some of the questions could go either way. The strength of preferences this time was 22,67,33,61.

It doesn't look like the profile of a mathematician, although I know another mathematician who took the test and got the same profile.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:57 / 04.10.02
I got :slightly expressed extrovert

slightly expressed intuitive personality

moderately expressed feeling personality

very expressed perceiving personality





"Slightly expressed extrovert"? Does that make any sense?
 
 
Persephone
15:43 / 04.10.02
It just means that you're not *very* much of an extrovert, whereas you seem to be very much more perceiving than judging.

Here's a profile: ENFP: Champion

And also: INFP: Healer

(Did I mention how much I love Myers-Brigg?)
 
  

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