BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Underground > Head Shop >

Evil violence

  
 
pacha perplexa
22:08 / 14.09.02
(wasn't sure where to post this, moderator. Feel free to change it.)

I'm calling "evil violence" all those actions of cruelty carried out with the purposes of 1. humiliating, causing pain or both; 2. (the perpetrator) obtaining some kind of satisfaction/pleasure, whatever; 3. Just because.

"Evil violence" is not the simple violence of the territorial, feeding instincts, but something that involves cruelty/pointless infliction of pain.

Maybe even torture has a division of this kind: althought it's obviously a cruel thing, there's the torture to obtain information or serve as an 'example' (scaring dissidents of a dictatorship, for instance) - and then there's the torture with similar justifications, but much worse, much more cruel than the 'normal' torture. Why did the Inquisition or Pinochet's regime invent so many different ways of hurting people? Wouldn't one be enough, if the result is causing pain?

I want to know about the logistics of the evil violent mind. How can some be so detached from others' suffering while being at the same time directly responsible for it? What is the source of their cruelty, if there is one? And what makes people do terrible things to others already in horrible situations? Does weakness stimulate violence? (Is it, then, a demonstration of power?)

Is it because of upbringing, social environment? Is it because of ideology (war, religion, brainwash)? Or psychopathy caused by extreme conditions (eg.:war)? And why is it that some have a crisis of conscience and others don't?

What motivated me to ask those questions is the amount of stupid violence I've been reading about. Even if it's always been like that since the dawn of humanity (eh, that's a fair question, I think. What do you say? Has it always been present?), I'm still curious.
The questions started in my mind when I read years ago about the varied horrendous tortures the military brazilian dictatorship carried on on dissidents. More recently, there was that thing of the cat being gutted alive by the art students. And then some barbelither wrote about this woman who left her two-year old baby on the car to put her shopping bags inside the house, and when she returned her daughter was being raped by two men. Then this toddler who was pinched and cigarrete-burned so frequently by her parents that she died. And today I read about a poor asylumn-seeker woman who was raped/spanked by almost every man she put her trust on.

Tell me if you think these questions aren't well-formulated. Maybe I'm being confused by anger and sadness. Anyway, let me know what you think.

Oh, btw: there's two things I'm not considering on purpose. One are the psychopaths/mentally ill people whose illness doesn't have a clear cause. And the other is cruelty commited by the mob.
 
 
pacha perplexa
22:50 / 14.09.02
Argh. I sense inconsistency, but can't idntify it. Too tired.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
23:24 / 14.09.02
I think people do these things because they can.

I think humans have a pecking order, and I think that people are okay with this, as long as there is someone below them. The question is, is this our natural way of being, or has our environment forced us to be this way? Are there some people who would never, ever do such things, even if they were given the power to do so?

A good example of this is the photo I saw recently of a group of German soldiers pointing their pistols at the head of a concentration camp prisoner who was kneeling in front of the grave he had just dug. The soldier nearest the camera is laughing - looking at his face alone, you'd think he was having a fine time on holiday, or with his loved ones. He seems to be laughing because he's happy with the power he has. He or his pals are about to blow this man's head off - because he has been put into a position where he can. Would I do such a thing? Would you?

School bullying is often the result of a child being treated badly at home - the bottom of the pecking order. They go to school and treat someone else badly. They are no longer bottom of the pecking order.

As far as the Inquisition goes, was it not just the pain that can be inflicted, but the method, that was important? The human imagination that can dream up the torture equipment can also think about how it would feel to have that used on you. In any kind of tyranny, terror is an important weapon.

Back to the Nazis - how many of the SS were pretty ordinary people before the war? To be elevated into such a powerful position, to be told that you are important, much more important than x,y and z whom you can do whatever you want to - would any of us not be corrupted by that?

As someone who was bullied mercilessly for years at school and after, in a long 'relationship', I've thought about this a lot. I'm aware that my 'why? because they can' view may well be cynical or simplistic or both, but I think there's truth in it, too.

I don't think humans are very nice creatures.
 
 
Strange Machine Vs The Virus with Shoes
02:38 / 15.09.02
I think that violence in all its forms is about control, maintaining hierarchical positions or moving up social hierarchies.
I would not say that violence is essentially evil unless you view human nature as evil. It is usually a desire to gain access to a higher level of social stratification or to maintain a position.
Society has developed many ways to keep violence in the hands of the upper levels. Law can be viewed as a type of violence.

Psychopaths have no emotional boundaries and are very rare. The extent of authority has a lot to do with violence in terms of torture etc. It is unbelievable the extent to which people will exert violence under the orders of authority figures.


As for crises of conscience, I think that this is where the perpetrator of violence has overstepped some sort of social conditioning control. The state is the main perpetuator of violence, however each social unit has its own acceptable levels of violence.

As for whether violence is natural or environmental is much harder to ascertain. Although I have mentioned that violence is linked to nature, I would hate to believe that this is concrete fact. Maybe a certain level of violence is inherent on a physiological basis, but maybe thought (meme) engineering can counteract this, but be put to better uses. As opposed to non-violence being a method of social conformity.

I seem to have gone under a major belief shift, that people are essentially nice. Despite much evidence to the contrary.
 
 
illmatic
09:36 / 16.09.02
I've got to keep this hsort as I'm at work. Apologies. I think one of the main factors that allows us to hurt other people (or other sentient beings, to come over all buddhist) is reduction of their qualities, dehumanisation. The little I've read about rape inicates to me that a lot (don't know if I can use the word "most") rapists have a fucked up view of women and reduce them to a combination of sexual sterotype and hate figures before than can carry out the act. Then there's the racial sterotyping that accompanies hate crimes - it's quite easy to be blind and dismiss another persons complexity/ stereotype them if they have an obvious signifier like another skin colour. I guess the same goes on with goverment sponsered torture - reduction of an other to an "enemy"/political sterotype as a necessity before hurting them.

There's also the "drunkness" of violence, the collaspse of thought and reason that accompanies extreme emotion and teh way violence begets violence. I felt a bit of this last night watching a fight on the bus on the way home. I saw a drunken assault by an old guy on a young bloke for a percieved insult. It was so wrong, so unecessary, so FUCKING STUPID that I found myself incredibly angry and would have been happy if someone had stuck a knife in the stupid old bastard. I admired the restraint by the guy under attack in the face of a prolonged assault and abuse. I could criticise myself but it was an understandable response and I hope I'll have the commonsense never to act on those feelings. Who can say they wouldn't do something atrocious if in an extreme situation?

As or humans: Most people seem quite reasonable, if not "nice", on an individual level. Collectively though, we're a fucking nightmare, who'll group up and start throwing shit (or missles) at any other group like the bunch of scared monkeys we are. Yet at the same time capable of so much. "Trapped between the apes and the angels" as Alan Moore put it.
I dunno. Back to work.
 
  
Add Your Reply