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Homosexuality and the Bible

 
  

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Seth
22:07 / 19.09.02
From the Christian Bulletin Board Service. Ouch

Surely half the site is set up to debate exactly these kind of issues? Have you actually posted anything on there, 'Nesh?
 
 
Ganesh
22:31 / 19.09.02
Yeah, check out my Conversation post. It's nastily fundamentalist. I'd expected better, frankly...
 
 
grant
17:19 / 20.09.02
Actually, there do seem to be one or two interested/interesting voices there - I was checking out Cross+Flame's thread on what are all those cavemen bodies about, then. It's just not nearly a majority viewpoint, and the people in charge aren't terribly sympathetic to, well, things that rock the boat.

What I think I'd like to know, to further both this discussion and the Christian Bulletin Board parallel one, is what the Bible has to say about heterosexuality.

Especially as separate from the need to multiply.
 
 
grant
15:20 / 23.09.02
They've started a new thread.

I'm interested in Jaxon's post - I wonder how much flak he's going to get.

I'd image a whole world of it.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
08:26 / 24.09.02
For anyone who wants to have the homosexuality/scripture discussion:

Evangilicals Concerned Inc.

Biblical truth(s)

Translation of history of Sodom

There are many more places covering this. Essentially, it's reasonably clear the Bible doesn't give a monkey's. The concept of homosexuality doesn't really feature. Rape, heterosexual or homosexual, gets a tough time, as do various idolatrous temple practices involving sex.

The thing is, that's not what you have to attack. The annoying tendency (which seems to me to be what Nesh ran into) is to use the Bible to back up a pre-existing prejudice, and that's very hard to crack because people will keep taking refuge in tenuously relevant quotation and then refuse to discuss it with you because you clearly don't understand 'how the Bible is supposed to be read'.

'Nesh, how did you come to choose that community, by the way? It seems to be staffed by some very fundie folk.
 
 
Ganesh
12:20 / 24.09.02
Via Fade To Black, which briefly became quite interested in it.

I'd also suggest Religious Tolerance if I haven't already done so.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
16:55 / 27.09.02
Having dipped a toe in the water of this debate, all I can say is that no argument has any great utility except in rare cases, because for the most part, Christians who are convinced of the evil of homosexuality - and, for the most part, any kind of sexuality activity not involving one man, one woman, and wedding vows already accomplished - will not examine the evidence suggesting that Jesus made no objection to it. The infallible word of God, interpreted to mean what they already think it means, cannot be contradicted. Never mind about 'pornea' or 'akatharsia' or anything else. For the most part, the people who don't already get this are people who aren't susceptible to the kind of argument necessary to make the point.

I think this is one which will change when religious leaders get their collective thumbs out of various holy orifices, and make som plain, simple, endorsements. Until then, it's uphill all the way, with someone hanging on your shoulders telling you uphill is inherently and ineffably bad and why would you want to go there?

[sigh]
 
 
grahamwell
09:39 / 30.09.02
There are positive examples in the Bible - the love between David and Jonathan being one. The MCC is a 'gay' church and has more.

The Pauline comments are the real problem (the Leviticus stuff is mostly hygene taboo and in context isn't so scary). One thing to remember is that Paul inherited two centuries of bitter antagonism between the Jews and the Hellenised people of the near East. When Paul set out into the Mediterranean cities to spread the word he was floating on a Greek sea. He didn't like much of what he found, particularly the Temple rituals and institutionalised Homosexuality which was the hallmark of Greek culture.

The other factor is the Churches attitude to sex in general. St. Augustine is the key figure here, importing significant elements of NeoPlatonism and Manichaeanism to Christian Thought and giving it his own particular twist. This addition was hostile to the physical body and sex in general. It's been said that St Augustine designed and built the conceptual box within which the modern mind lives - the rest is, well, history.

Jesus, as recorded in the gospels, had nothing to say on homosexuality. What he did, very unequivocally, take a stand on was divorce - which he ruled out absolutely - something that is worth challenging evangelicals on if they are giving you a hard time.
 
  

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