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Hellblazer - Azzarello a close second?

 
  

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Sharkgrin
11:44 / 02.09.02
I finished up the Ashes and Dust series.
At the risk of infuriating every Delano loyalist, I honestly beleive Azzarello is the second best writer to ever pen Hellblazer, after Ennis.
What I appreciate is their ability to weave and sustain the dark, gritty atmosphere were Constantine lived.
I don't perticularly care that the stories have more time in America -'Fear and Loathing' and 'Rake at the Gates of Hell' are still my favorites.
I will admit that Azzarello and Ennis rarely incorporated folklore or continuing maghical themes in their writing, a frequent beauty in Delano's writings.

Two caveats:
1 - It might be the maturity of writing in adult-themed comics as a whole, and...
2 - It might have been the artists that each had to work with.
Who knows?
VR\
The Shark
 
 
some guy
14:17 / 02.09.02
I thought Azzarello blew, to use a literary term. He clearly has no idea who Constantine is...
 
 
CameronStewart
14:32 / 02.09.02
Azzarello caused me to stop buying Hellblazer as a monthly title. And I even worked on two of them.

I like his work in other books, but his Hellblazer was just awful.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
14:50 / 02.09.02
Azzarello wrote some very good stories...the problem was that they were not Hellblazer stories. JC is a mage...the nastiest, scariest mage who, when he shows up, makes both friends and enemies shit themselves.

He should not be acting in an episode of OZ, be stranded in a diner in an elongated version of the opening scene of "Pulp Fiction" or any other crime fiction scenario.

Of course, I didn't like Ennis on the book other than his first and last story.

JC is a VERY hard character to grasp, and I think it's time to put him aside...it's not like anyone gives a damn about Sting anymore.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
16:47 / 02.09.02
I've still only read about half of Azzarello's run, but I don't think that what I've read has been too bad (w/the exception of any and all slangy dialogue). Maybe not Constantine as he's been written in the past, but definitely not too terribly out of character, either. Marcelo Frusin's art, however, has been mother's milk. He has added some genuinely disturbing imagery and a very creepy vibe to the book.
 
 
glassonion
19:05 / 02.09.02
i'm glad to have him back out-smoking the big smoke. very fond of the corner of american comics jc occupies - i'm not going to get bored of grim british horrorshows just yet, so let him skulk about.
 
 
Mr Tricks
19:40 / 03.09.02
while it was barely a JC series will Azzarello's writting, I still mostly enjoyed it.

Hated the 1st issue of the New run... who's writting it now? the guy who write Lucifer yeah?

Personally, I Think Paul Jenkin's run on Hellblazer was an excellent follow-up to Ennis. Didn't read enough of Delano's run... wonder if they'll collect more of it.
 
 
uncle retrospective
21:19 / 03.09.02
I have to say that I really liked the new issue, it maybe that it felt familiar, the voice sounded like John, with Steve Dillon on the art it looked like John and the family. It seems like Carey is going to bring back the seedy trickster which I missed.
And lets pray to god we don't get anymore shit stories with a town involved in internet porn.
Back on point; fuck Azzarello he was rubbish.
 
 
The Falcon
23:53 / 03.09.02
I quite like Azzarello, but sometimes he comes on ridiculously over-boiled. 'Ashes and Dust' is like that, but with some marvellously hardcore bits - to it's credit.

I look forward to Carey. Best Hellblazer I've read was Ennis (1st period) too.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
06:34 / 26.09.02
"I have to say that I really liked the new issue, it maybe that it felt familiar, the voice sounded like John, with Steve Dillon on the art it looked like John and the family."

It looked like Carey humping Garth Ennis' corpse. It was perfect Ennis-era constantine. Which will have to sit behind the Azz, Delano, Ellis runs in tearms of my personal enjoyment.

The problem with Azz era Constantine is that at first he really didn't have a good grasp on C's character. However as the run evolved, so the Azz's grasp on the character. The bulk of Azz's run was brillantly paced and made the first honest attempt to update Constantine in years. It was horror, dark, unplesant squirmy horror.

( For those who wonder how I could rate it over Ennis... Ellis' contribution, by the way, was to try and write John's universe as a living breathing modern world of the occult. Basement shamen trying to make crack their spirit ally and magicians thriving in thier own brand of Underworld/Subway Magick.)
 
 
sleazenation
08:21 / 26.09.02
Ho-hum all the gung-ho sub-ellisisms are coming out today.

If Mike Carey is humping the corpse of the Ennis run the Brian Azzerello was surely anally raping the aborted fetus of his own 100 bullets during his run on hellblazer.

Of course this is all opinion, yada yada but i would have liked Azzerello to have done a litle more research a discovered that there is more to JC than the old horror-hocus pocus .
 
 
The Falcon
15:25 / 26.09.02
I just reread Ellis run, which isn't highly rated at all in some quarters, a fact I found surprising. I think it's great, 'Locked' with Frank Teran being a particular favourite.

I've also read 'Shoot' (not the football magazine) online, which I thought was fairly tame and obvious moralising - hardly necessitating such furore.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
20:30 / 26.09.02
Forgive the "sub-ellisisms" but I'm sticking by my guns. Carey is a compitent writer but it dosen't appear he's bringing anything new to the mix. Perhaps it's just the Ennis-esque pacing matched with the Dillon art, but the "back to basics" approach just dosen't sit well for me at all. It reduces what was once a book that was always moving if not forward than a little sideways into a same-old same-old "Constantine by the numbers" book that really is fucking pointless. I mean Caery's storyline is decent, it's also a relic of 10 years ago.

I guess that's what the fans want though; endless retreads of Classic Vertigo. It certianly sells dozens of lackluster Sandman Spinoffs (with the occasional gem).

And personally, despite the early missteps in Hard Time and the Train-Wreck of an Ending that was Good Intentions, I think Azz had a spectacular grasp on JC. Hell, the interloping fools-rush-in style Constantine from Good Intentions was classic "Ennis-style" Constantine.

And as far as Ellis goes, while I loved his run, I think that the "great unpublished Ellis Hellblazer story" that is Shoot is pretty sub-par. While Ellis' rage come through clearly, it comes through too clearly. It is little more than the author pontificating through an inappropriate mouthpiece.
 
 
The Falcon
23:37 / 26.09.02
Yes, I think so. Interestingly, he (I'm sure this has been discussed before, but anyhoo...) used a simulacrum of Conners (not for the first time in his career - anyone remember Pete Wisdom?) in Planetary #7, who then took off his trenchcoat, revealing the tatoos of Spider Jerusalem - leading to Transmet #42 (I think... can't find the issue) which deals with the altogether thornier (to my mind) subject of child prostitution, and tragically and excellently.

But, yes, 'Haunted' and the shorts ('Blake would've shat himself if he'd seen this, mate' - classic) are grand indeed.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
00:32 / 27.09.02
I agree that Ellis' run was great–speed metal Constantine. Probably my favorite run in retrospect although I didn't like it at the time. Assarello was horrible, and made me stop reading my favorite comic and favorite character. Carey also sucks. Delano was pretty dumb in retrospect (I've read his whole run, which is just politics upon moralizing upon politics), but Ennis was mainly great.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
02:01 / 27.09.02
I really don't understand how anyone can make a judgement of Carey's run, considering his second issue just came out this week. A bit premature, yes?

I've been on a huge Hellblazer back-issue binge over the last month, having now acquired all but two issues in one form or another. I'm trying to read the individual writers' runs in big lumps. Out of Jenkins, Ellis, and Azzarello (which is all I've finished reading thus far), Azzarello's run is definitely the least substantive of the three (even despite Ellis' run being so short as to be virtually non-existent). It adds the least to the overall story of Constantine's life and to the character of Constantine himself.

That said, I don't think it's a particularly bad run overall. The "Hard Time" story was particularly strong, IMO, despite having Constantine arguably act quite out of character (going to prison to assuage the guilt he feels over the death of someone he's not even particularly close to, after more or less brushing off a countless number of much more personal deaths?). Although a few of the stories had me scratching my head afterward in kind of a "What was the point of that?" way, they all had some genuinely horrific moments that more than made up for weaknesses in story. Again, these horrific moments don't particularly add to the tale of Constantine (and I've read some online postings that argued that Azarello's entire run could be ignored w/no detriment to continuity, which I might be inclined to agree with), but they do make up for the horror that was lacking from Jenkins' run. And which, it seems to me, should be constantly hovering at the edge of Constantine's world.

I'm personally looking very forward to Carey's run. I wrote off Lucifer fairly early on, only to read the entire run recently and dig the shit out of it. The man's got one hell of a gift for storytelling and a fantastic facility for weaving numerous complex plot points into a grandiose tapestry. If Lucifer is any indication, though, the story might take a little while to get off the ground. I'm willing to bet that it'll be worth sticking around, though.
 
 
Sharkgrin
05:15 / 27.09.02
Deric, my man, the earlier Lucifer are my favorite recent reads, but I sense a re-cycle of 'everybody-beat-up-the-devil-Whoops-he-fooled-us-all-again'.

The frustrating thing about the Azzarello read is that:
1 - All the American-bound characters were killed off. The original Hellblazer story at least left a handful still standing in America. Carey coulda' left Turro alive.
2 - No other continuing characters were significantly used. This is a Hellblazer staple (or so I thought): Chaz and his sister and the Ghost crew are enduring supporting characters.

That said - I dug the 'Dead and Buried' and 'Fresh Coat of Red Paint' stories a lot.
 
 
sleazenation
08:26 / 27.09.02
Just out of interest how many people here have read much of hellblazer between delano's and run and the start of vertigo?

I only ask cos whenever I look in the back issue racks there is a significant gap there of those issues, which include eniis early run on the title and shorter - 1/2 issue hellblazer stories by gaiman and morrison etc. was there anything else of interest happening in that part of the run?
 
 
ghadis
12:48 / 27.09.02
Interestingly i was reading an interview with Alan Moore in The Third Alternatine recently and he talked about Brian Azzarellos' Hellblazer and Gaimans' Miracleman being his favourite runs of other writers taking over his past characters...He said that Azzarellos' Constantine was the closest to his own idea of the character...???...didn't really enjoy it myself and stopped buying after a couple of issues...looking forward to Careys run though...

I've proberly said it before but for me Morrisons' 2 issue story and John Smiths single issue in the Launderette are by far the best out of the whole run...
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
16:25 / 27.09.02
I guess it would make sense that Moore liked Azarello's run the best. Moore wasn't about getting inside of Constantine and figuring out what made him tick, either. Although I think Constantine's a great character and I enjoy reading stories that reveal more about him, I think that his series has, in general, sucked most of the mystery out of Moore's take on the character.

Regarding Delano's run, sleazenation, I'm gonna start reading it today. So I'll let you know what I think about it when I'm done.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
19:43 / 30.09.02
I enjoyed Delano's run a lot - when i was 15 and 16. 'Voting Tory can seriously damage your health' and all that - radical to me at the time - seemed like real dissent when the mainstream had bottled it and was feeding us Network 7 instead. Those first 13 issues - a tour of modern brit horror - like hammer house flattened out for the comic book with all the shadows cast by Thatcher's strange New Britain. Some of the tales were unsubtle (skinheads), others were sublime(the voyage into cyberspace and the collision with nergal, the big, bold demon who invented the 'newcastle' experience) - okay, not sublime, but pretty fuckin good.

Then from ish 14 through to twenny summin, we had that weird, modern nomadic mystery tale which warmed us up for all the acid house party clashes we would see on the news towards the end of the eighties.

It was vital reading - a companion to 2000AD, Concrete, Marshall Law and assorted moore's.

Looking back, I'm still very fond of that run - but the writing is relentlessly dark, a bit purple in parts and Ridgeway never really made Constantine look very cool.

Anyone remember the fuss which surrounded Piers-Rayner's entry to the market?

Constantine: A whole new look! etc.

I loved what he did with constantine - but he didn't hang around for long did he?

Neither did I. I jumped ship after Family Man.

As for those Morrison fillers - that's all they were. And they couldn't possibly be considered the series highlight. 'Hold Me' by Gaiman and McKean is far better. Amazing opinion from me really cos I think Gaiman is exactly that:

gay.

when it comes to comic writing anyway.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
21:44 / 30.09.02
yawn: That was really clever. Well done, fuckwit.

For fuck's sake, this argument is older than Christ. Can we not just accept that John Constantine, like James Bond, is all things to all people and move on? Every writer who's delivered a take on JC has brought out a different aspect of the character, one that interested them enough to write it. My takes on the various interpretations...

Moore wrote Constantine as an 'international man of mystery' in Swamp Thing, showing us flashes of psychosis and obsessive behaviour, hidden motivations, and flippancy masking manipulative gamesmanship around Swampy and most of his supporting cast. He was the perfect foil for Swamp Thing, who, in contrast, knew next to nothing about his own origins or any kind of mysticism, was pompous and upright, and constantly having to react to situations that were forced upon him. But he wan't much more than that. At the end of Moore's run, we still knew almost nothing about him.

Delano wrote an angst-ridden bastard gumshoe, a common street-punk with delusions of world-saving, to badly paraphrase the demon Nergal. Delano's stuff, unlike much of Moore's Swamp Thing work, has dated badly for the most part, the topical references and segues seeming parochial and a wee bit naive, and the writing trying too hard to be Chandleresque, becoming badly parsed and a vivid purple instead. I've never really rated Delano as a conceptualist or as a storyteller - having said that, there are some great stories in there if you're willing to wade through the mediocre, Delano occasionally pulling off some lovely gore-free horror, and he has a half-decent ear for dialogue.

In contrast, Ennis wrote us a sarcastic aging fuck-up, altering the 'haunted by the deaths of the friends he allowed to die' schtick from poor near-literal hallucinations of said friends (like MacBeth seeing Banquo at the feast, only done to death, and in a sub-Claremont manner at that) to giving JC more personal, naturalistic 'issues' - he finally became a character the reader could relate to. 'Naturalistic'? Ennis? Absolutely - at least when it comes to delivering main and supporting characters whole, decked out with lives, histories, dreams and nightmares that seem to make them rounded people rather than ciphers or props. In terms of some of the stories - no, of course not. Ennis liked gore, and people being injured in nasty, primary colour close-up - something he and Steve Dillon made a meandering road movie of in Preacher. He also adhered almost totally to the Judeo-Christian mythos in terms of adversaries, choosing the Adversary himself as the main event - The Devil, the First of the Fallen (not Lucifer, The sandman's former head archangel... his origins unknown, he could easily have been lying about being God's own 'Jiminy Cricket' and about being thrown into Hell long before the war in Heaven... anyway, I digress). Delano fans didn't like him for either of the above two preferences. But what the fuck - John Constantine was consistent and real for the first time, a man of contradictions, capable of beating Satan but being brought to the brink when his lover leaves him, and supplied with an interesting and fun supporting cast.
We also had great Hellblazer moments... glassing the Devil... conning the three lords of Hell into curing his terminal lung cancer, and then giving them the finger... saving a demon succubus from the First's retribution, finishing with the immortal line, "That's three times I've kicked your arse, sunshine. 'Round here we call that a hat trick."... JC with the chainsaw standing over the fallen archangel Gabriel with that evil grin on his face... and 'Forty', a little story about Constantine's fortieth birthday, which sees Swamp Thing supplying the weed and someone pissing on the Phantom Strangers shoes, to name only a few.

Ellis - I remember his usual ever-so-slightly overworked but hard-boiled and muscular prose and dialogue, some genuinely effective and affective stories and concepts, but no real effort to bring anything else to the character except to take Ennis' version, delete the sense of humour and add some Mooresque mystery... which didn't work too well for me so soon after Ennis' run, which was all about showing John as utterly human but involved and dealing with preposterously supernatural situations.

Azzarello... no character, all mystery again. JC with superpowers, apparently, able suddenly to throw around minor 'scary' magickal effects and hexes with bits and pieces of tat in the room or in his pockets at the time, MacGuyver-style. Far removed from Hellblazer, opting to retread Moore's spooky sneering bastard from Swamp Thing, but throwing in touches of Delano's doggerel-lyrical narcissistic gumshoe and Ennis' sarky man of the world and all-round fuckup here and there to add flavour. The supporting cast in each of the linked the stories was relatively impressive, certainly getting more development and 'screen-time' than Constantine - but then it could have been any 'mystical-warrior-bastard on a misguided vengeance binge' as the protagonist. Remove the mystical elements, and it was Dashiel Hammett updated for the Sin City generation.

Carey? Don't know yet, too early to say. Morrison, as usual when working for hire, fitted the Delano Hellblazer template onto a half-formed story of his own for two unremarkable issues. I vaguely remember John Smith's story as being amazing - that was the one in the launderette, right? I don't actually own it... Or I could be thinking of Gaiman's one-off issue... and talking of Gaiman, for me he gave us the 'Pierce Brosnan' of the Constantines in The Books Of Magic: a smooth, unflappable conman with no particular magickal gifts, but nevertheless boasting a reputation that made demons, sorcerors, gods and angels step out of his path. Nice, well-written and cool in a Chow Yun Fat in Hard-Boiled way, but mostly lacking in depth.

That's my tuppence worth, anyway. Jesus, but that's a big post. Can you tell I'm on speed?
 
 
Sharkgrin
01:07 / 01.10.02
Yawn,

You forged an exacting, brilliant, and concise literary critique and...

Stuck a highly offensive and insensitive steaming heap of dung on the tail end.

But my opinion is not woryh anything, anyway.

VR
The Shark
 
 
sobel
09:30 / 01.10.02
Yawn can be a tosser at times. Everyone here knows that.

Even yawn.

but Jack the bodirock, what are you on about?; you said:

For fuck's sake, this argument is older than Christ. Can we not just accept that John Constantine, like James Bond, is all things to all people and move on? Every writer who's delivered a take on JC has brought out a different aspect of the character, one that interested them enough to write it. My takes on the various interpretations...

I mean, you say, lets move on, this is boring shit, and then bore fuck out of us all with your long winded shmuff!

only joking - you obviously love blond guys in dirty macs - dats some good analysis

and I'd agree that gaiman is a bit gay when it comes to comics.

all those bloody fairies......
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
12:09 / 01.10.02
See, what I meant was that there's no 'better' or 'worse' with Constantine, just different. And I missed Paul Jenkins out because I hated his run like I hate old mouldy bananas with racist leanings and a tendency to Goth-bash. Of which there are a lot in Southampton, obviously. But yes! This is what will happen when you've been doing vast quantities of amphetamines all weekend and your girlfriend's passed out upstairs. Sorry.
 
 
Templar
11:47 / 08.10.02
I thought Azarello's version was the best since Delano.

*hah, the fools, that'll really get them going...*

No, really. It had those creepy, slightly disturbing, taking-my-time-with-the-story elements that Ennis never had. The last storyline in Azarello's run was particularly cold and worrying, more in its portrayal of the characters than in its subject matter. Admittedly the pacing of these issues works better for a collection than monthly issues, but how anybody could think that Ennis' unsubtle bang-bang-bang style was better than Azarello's finely crafted approach is beyond me.

And Alan Moore agrees. So, hah, there.

It could have been worse. Paul Jenkins could have returned.
 
 
000
22:02 / 10.10.02
Fuck you.

Jenkins is the underappreciated of them all, and (to get things going) the best people in the world like his run.

The best.

And only them.

Ha.
 
 
Mr Tricks
23:40 / 10.10.02
Double Ha
Ha Ha
 
 
Sharkgrin
00:33 / 11.10.02
It's comical when people say Delano's Constantine was a friendly, neighborhood psychic troubled by demons, compared to...
Tarantino's/Ennis' Constantine or Azzarello's supernatural predator.

Didn't Delano's Constantine derail the coming of the Second Messiah out of pure spite?
Didn't Delano's Constantine feed his fiends and innocent non-mystics to demonic monsters every three issues?

I guess rank dung-heaps like the Fear Machine were good reading, because Ol' Johnny was part of a classic near-super heroe team trying to save good, old England. Easily the worst and most drawn-out trial of the Title to date.

I didn't like Azz's attempt to fix the Jerry-Springer-depravity opf America in 5 easy series, but I actually felt more afraid for the supporting characters than I ever did for Constatine himself.

VR
AF
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
07:28 / 11.10.02
the fear machine was a queer read but its important for this:

it foreshadowed the whole 'rave' movement with its 'Psychic energy/anti-authority/drug-taking/motorway-based' vibe
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
09:42 / 11.10.02
John Constantine died in 'Planetary', and became Spider Jerusalem. There's a truth in that. Constantine is quintessential eighties, and he's a Wrong Bastard in a very masochistic, British way, all angst and memory. Where does he fit in the world? Or rather, where does a magical-political ironic horror fit have space in the world now?

Tricky.

I think they need to let him be.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
10:08 / 11.10.02
I was interested in the story you refer to nick (it was actually my way into the painfully self-conscious Planetary), but it was badly told and lacked real meaning, as Spider Jerusalem is far too peripheral a character for someone as iconic as Constantine to be re-imagined (transmuted) as.

So I didn’t buy that little take of Ellis’. Rather than Spider Jerusalem as being the host for the classic ‘outsider’ figure (which Constantine represents within the DC-verse (and other related spatial stratas), the character he became was Morpheus, King Mob, Spider Jerusalem and every other bald headed ‘rebel’ you may have read/seen/jizzed over in the last 5-7 years. If Ellis is smart, he’ll admit this is what he intended. This concept, I’m sure, has already been explored here, on an old version of the ‘lith.

But as for Constantine no longer fitting: I can’t accept that. It all depends on the writer. And the story.

I still think Constantine has yet to become the truly great character he surely is. I don’t give a fuck that he was some cunt that totleben and bisette kept drawing in the background and happened to look like Sting. In fact I do: it shows his real power: perhaps he embodies a magical force which willed itself in to the story, a meme which first infected the hosts, Totleben and Bissette, who in turn soiled Moore’s imagination.

I suppose I retain this optimism because I’ve barely read an issue of Hellblazer since 1990. Its the character’s potential – as the perpetual outsider – which keeps me interested.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:26 / 11.10.02
Okay... before anyone kills me here I'd just like to say- I haven't reread the Delano issues in YEARS. But in my memory, they're my favourite. Yes, even the Fear Machine. (although that may just have been where my head was at at the time).

Ennis, I think, did the character better (which is, after all, probably the most important thing)- he did some great "FUCKING HELL!!!" ideas, and some of the best dialogue I've ever read in that comic... I just found that, with the exception of "Dangerous Habits", it just... wasn't very scary (I know that's probably not the point, and yes, his metaphysics rocked, but... call me old-fashioned- I want horror stuff to scare me and make me wonder about sinister things). Constantine also read pretty much like the majority of Ennis' other characters- and yeah, that was good, and well done, but... I kind of preferred him when we knew very little about him, and were getting it revealed hint by bit by bit by hint... (something, for all his inferiority in the dialogue-writing stakes, Delano managed. However, something probably not sustainable over a continuing series.)

I gave up somewhere towards the end of Ennis' run... I was enjoying it, but not enough that I could be arsed to keep buying it in favour of something better. Or at least newer.

Jenkins- only read a couple... they piqued my curiosity to read the comic again.

Azzarello- Hard Time was great (though I'm not much of a fan of Corben's artwork), but I was kind of relieved when it finished- the "Constantine as hard-boiled convict" thing worked, and very well, but I doubt it would have lasted.

"Good Intentions"- that was Constantine. Properly Constantine. And a good old-fashioned Constantine story, too.

Just started buying it again. You know. Just to, like... see what happens.

Oh, and I loved the Morrison 2-parter (if you're gonna steal, may as well steal from The Wicker Man, right?) but not as much as the launderette one by the hugely underrated John Smith (did anyone actually read Scarab? Cos it rocked.)
 
 
The Natural Way
11:50 / 11.10.02
Yeah, for me it was always Ellis and Delano on Hellblazer.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
17:27 / 11.10.02
I'd like to see more Constantine outside of the "craziness of the month" parameters, going on for months of normal life only to get dragged back in and have to sort out some demon or another. It'd serve the double purpose of expanding on Constanine's character and world and it would lend more weight to the bad craziness when it occurs. I think that's why I appreciated "The Fear Machine". It was slow and gave John time to put his feet up just before kicking the chair out from under him.
 
  

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